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Christian Trinity

Spartan

Well-Known Member
Not saying that you're right or wrong, but consider this. what one might read may not yeild true understanding. example, Genesis 1:26 "And God said, Let us make man in our image, after our likeness: and let them have dominion over the fish of the sea, and over the fowl of the air, and over the cattle, and over all the earth, and over every creeping thing that creepeth upon the earth."
here in verse 26, is sound like it's more than one person, do it not?. sounding and knowing is two different animal. here in verse 26 is says, "Let us make man in our image", sound like more than one, for us and our are plural designations, correct? but listen to the very next verse. Genesis 1:27 "So God created man in his own image, in the image of God created he him; male and female created he them."
ok, how did God go from "US" and "OUR" which indicate a plurality to "HIS" and "HE" which are single designations. well was it us and our who created man or was it his and him who created man?. I say let the Lord Jesus answer this question once and for all, for he cannot lie.... correct?.

in Matthews chapter 19 the Pharisees came to the Lord Jesus tempting him about divorcement, but what he said was an eye opener, listen. Matthew 19:3 & 4 "The Pharisees also came unto him, tempting him, and saying unto him, Is it lawful for a man to put away his wife for every cause?" 4 "And he answered and said unto them, Have ye not read, that he which made them at the beginning made them male and female," the "he" here, a single designations, it is referring to God in Genesis 1:26 where the "US" and "OUR" is used. and this is confirmed by Mark 10:6 "But from the beginning of the creation God made them male and female.". so the he in Matthews chapter 19 is God in Mark 10.

so we know that the Lord Jesus cannot "LIE". so now one need to explain the "US" and the "OUR" in verse 26 of Genesis chapter 1. which the book of Romans holds the answer.as well as the book of Isaiah

PICJAG.

Jesus is the Great I AM (John 8:58). They even tried to stone him because they said he claimed to be God. And like you said, Jesus doesn't lie.
 

Spartan

Well-Known Member
Not saying that you're right or wrong, but may I ask you a question. if the 3 person are not the other, question, Revelation 1:1 "The Revelation of Jesus Christ, which God gave unto him, to shew unto his servants things which must shortly come to pass; and he sent and signified it by his angel unto his servant John:"
so who SENT his Angel to John? but before you answer that read this. Revelation 22:6 "And he said unto me, These sayings are faithful and true: and the Lord God of the holy prophets sent his angel to shew unto his servants the things which must shortly be done."

so the angel who was sent told John exactly who sent him "The Lord God of the holy prophets"
now looking at your chart above, is the Lord God of the ..... holy prophets is A. the one whom you calls the Father or it the one whom you calls Son here, which one?
will be looking for your answer, thanks in advance.

PICJAG.

Jesus is the Lord of the Sabbath. Who is the Lord? God.

1. Jesus existed in the beginning (John 1:1; Philip 2:6; Rev. 19:13; Micah 5:2).
2. He was with God (John 1:1).
3. He is God, the Son (John 1:1; Rom. 9:5; Heb. 1:8, 10; I John 5:20).
4. He is God manifest in the flesh (John 20:28; I Tim. 3:16; Col. 2:9; Acts 20:28; Heb. 1:8).
5. He is God foretold (Isaiah 9:6; Psalm 45:6).
6. He is Immanuel, God with us (Isaiah 7:14; Matthew 1:23).
7. He is the true God (I John 5:20 with Titus 2:13; Romans 9:5).
8. He is the great God (Titus 2:13).
9. He is God our Savior (II Peter 1:1).
10. He existed in the form of God before His incarnation and was equal with God the Father (Philippians 2:5-7)
11. He is the only wise God (Jude 25).
12. He is omnipotent over disease. (Matthew 8:1-4; Luke 4:39)
13. He is omnipotent over demons. (Matthew 8:16-17; Luke 4:35)
14. He is omnipotent over nature. ((Matthew 8:26)
15. He is omnipotent over death. (Luke 7:14-15; John 11:25)
16. He is omniscient, knowing the hearts of the Pharisees. (Matthew 12:25; Luke 5:22; 6:8; 7:39-40)
17. He knew the thoughts of the scribes. (Matthew 9:3-4)
18. He knew the history of the Samaritan woman. (John 4:24)
19. He is omnipresent. (Matthew 18:20; 28:20; John 3:13; 14:20)
20. He was worshiped as God by the angels (Hebrews 1:6); worshiped as God by the wise men (Matthew 2:2); worshiped as God by the shepherds (Luke 2:15); worshiped as God by a ruler (Matthew 9:18); worshiped as God by Thomas (John 20:28); worshiped as God by the apostles (Matthew 14:33;28:9)
21. He forgives sins. (Mark 2:5)
22. He saves (only God saves). Matthew 18:11; John 10:28).
23. He judges. (John 5:22)
24. Paul, Peter, Jude, James, and John called Him God. (Galatians 2:20; 1 Peter 3:22; Jude 25; James 2:1; I John 5:20; Revelation 1:18; 19:16)
25. He is God’s Son, who was sent to bring us eternal life. (John 3:16)
26. He arose from death in the flesh (John 20:26-28; Luke 24:39-43; I John 4:2-3).
27. One with the Father (John 10:30).

Also, Jesus is Jehovah. Numerous scriptures attest to it. Jesus Must be Jehovah

Are you a Jehovah's Witness or Mormon?
 

LightofTruth

Well-Known Member
Not saying that you're right or wrong, but consider this, Isaiah 9:6 "For unto us a child is born, unto us a son is given: and the government shall be upon his shoulder: and his name shall be called Wonderful, Counsellor, The mighty God, The everlasting Father, The Prince of Peace."
that Son that was given holds the title "Father" is this correct?

PICJAG.
Yes it is.
When Jesus' disciples ask him to show them the Father he said that if they had seen him they had seen the Father. That's because the same Spirit that is with the Father was given to Jesus without measure. That Spirit enables Jesus to do all things the Father does.
 

101G

Well-Known Member
GINOLJC, to all.
The NASB says at Is. 9:6 –

“For a child will be born to us, a son will be given to us; and the government will rest on His shoulders; and His name shall be called Wonderful Counselor, Mighty God, Eternal Father, Prince of Peace.”

All Christians, I believe, accept this son as being the Christ. Some will tell you that since the meaning of this symbolic name includes the words “Mighty God, Eternal Father,” then Jesus is the Mighty God and the Eternal Father.”

But there are at least two other ways this personal name has been interpreted by reputable Bible scholars. (1) The titles within the name (e.g., “Mighty God”) are intended in their secondary, subordinate senses. (2) the titles within the name are meant to praise God the Father, not the Messiah.
first thanks for the reply, second, these are not Personal Names, but titles of one person. third, we disagree with those reputable Bible scholars, he is to be praise, because he is the Father manifested in flesh as the diversity of his ownself this is self evident, scripture, Matthew 1:23 "Behold, a virgin shall be with child, and shall bring forth a son, and they shall call his name Emmanuel, which being interpreted is, God with us." seeing that it is only ONE GOD, he is with us in flesh as Son. for John 1:3 and Isaiah 44:24 proves that out no need for any interparation. and please make a note, a reputable Bible scholars said this, and I quote, "scholars LIE". and as for any private interpretation of the scriptures, 2 Peter 1:20 "Knowing this first, that no prophecy of the scripture is of any private interpretation." KNOWING THIS, so we recommend that the bible interpret itself. just reconcile John 1:3 and Isaiah 44:24 as to "who made all things". that will settle the isaiah 9:6 scripture question as who the father is.

PICJAG.
 

101G

Well-Known Member
Jesus is the Great I AM (John 8:58). They even tried to stone him because they said he claimed to be God. And like you said, Jesus doesn't lie.
thanks for the the reply, agreed JESUS is the Great I AM. and John also confirm this with the prophet Isaiah. scripture, John 12:37-41 "But though he had done so many miracles before them, yet they believed not on him:" 38 "That the saying of Esaias the prophet might be fulfilled, which he spake, Lord, who hath believed our report? (Isaiah 52), and to whom hath the arm of the Lord been revealed?" 39 "Therefore they could not believe, because that Esaias said again," 40 "He hath blinded their eyes, and hardened their heart; that they should not see with their eyes, nor understand with their heart, and be converted, and I should heal them." 41 "These things said Esaias, when he saw his glory, and spake of him."
WHEN DID ISAIAH SEE THE LORD?, Isaiah 6:1-3 "In the year that king Uzziah died I saw also the Lord sitting upon a throne, high and lifted up, and his train filled the temple." 2 "Above it stood the seraphims: each one had six wings; with twain he covered his face, and with twain he covered his feet, and with twain he did fly." 3 "And one cried unto another, and said, Holy, holy, holy, is the LORD of hosts: the whole earth is full of his glory."

John the Revelator saw the same thing in Revelation chapter 4. the same one person, Jesus our Lord.

so we agree with you JESUS is God almighty made, or was manifested in flesh. amen.
 

101G

Well-Known Member
Jesus is the Lord of the Sabbath. Who is the Lord? God.
Correct.
10. He existed in the form of God before His incarnation and was equal with God the Father (Philippians 2:5-7)
yes, for he is God as John 1:1 states, only now he comes in flesh to die for our sins. for you have the correct verse Philippians 2:6 for he is God diversified in flesh, meaning he is equal with God in NATURE, (not two Gods, but one God, the same Person, just "shared" or Diversified in flesh, meaning he is Spirit shared in flesh. or as John said, the "ANOTHER" comforter who is G243 allos with himself. better known as the OFFSPRING of David. for John 1:1 is confirmed by Philippians 2:6-8, before he the diversity of God himself, G2758 κενόω kenoo in flesh. amen

PICJAG.
 

101G

Well-Known Member
Also, Jesus is Jehovah. Numerous scriptures attest to it. Jesus Must be Jehovah

Are you a Jehovah's Witness or Mormon?
sorry forgot to answer this. well Jesus is the one whom you call Jehovah. for the Jehovah witness new world translation of the bible proves this, (which I'm sure they might want to change their writting). anyway this is proved out in the Revelation 1:1 question we asked. and if one is JW, use your own bible translation. in Revelation 1:1 someone sent his angel to John, but the angel said in Revelation 22:6 that it was the Lord God of the holy Prophets who sent him. well many JW and many Mormons said that it was Jehovah who sent the angel. even the JW have, in their bible at Rev 22:6 , Jehovah who sent his angel. well they got a suprise, because in the same chapter Revelation 22 at 16 the bible, and even the NWT states who sent his angel to John. and when many, (not all), JW and Mormons read what Revelation 22:16 says they are in shock. Just read it for yourself.

and as to what belief I hold, I'm not either Jehovah's Witness or Mormon.

PICJAG.
 

LightofTruth

Well-Known Member
sorry forgot to answer this. well Jesus is the one whom you call Jehovah. for the Jehovah witness new world translation of the bible proves this, (which I'm sure they might want to change their writting). anyway this is proved out in the Revelation 1:1 question we asked. and if one is JW, use your own bible translation. in Revelation 1:1 someone sent his angel to John, but the angel said in Revelation 22:6 that it was the Lord God of the holy Prophets who sent him. well many JW and many Mormons said that it was Jehovah who sent the angel. even the JW have, in their bible at Rev 22:6 , Jehovah who sent his angel. well they got a suprise, because in the same chapter Revelation 22 at 16 the bible, and even the NWT states who sent his angel to John. and when many, (not all), JW and Mormons read what Revelation 22:16 says they are in shock. Just read it for yourself.

and as to what belief I hold, I'm not either Jehovah's Witness or Mormon.

PICJAG.
1 The Revelation of Jesus Christ, which God gave unto him, to shew unto his servants things which must shortly come to pass; and he sent and signified it by his angel unto his servant John:

I understand that to mean that God gave to Jesus the words of the Revelation and that Jesus in turn gave it to his angel who then gave it to John.

So, we have God giving it to Jesus, Jesus giving it to his angel. his angel giving it to John, and John giving to the servants what he was shown by signs from the angel.

Look at it this way; the angel was the second party to receive the Revelation. He received it from Jesus, who was the first party to receive it. Jesus received it from God, where it originated.
So, it would be correct to say that God sent the angel and that Jesus sent the angel. Just as it would be correct to say that God is Savior and Jesus is Savior.
 

101G

Well-Known Member
Yes it is.
When Jesus' disciples ask him to show them the Father he said that if they had seen him they had seen the Father. That's because the same Spirit that is with the Father was given to Jesus without measure. That Spirit enables Jesus to do all things the Father does.
again, not saying that you're right or wrong, but lets fine tune what you said, because you're on the right track. the term "WITH" the Father is the SHARE to Come in flesh. for, "Show us the Father", is JESUS, you're correct, but in flesh. the same Spirit that was in that flesh is the same Spirit that was in the prophets, (Spirit), prophesying. supportive scripture, 1 Peter 1:10 & 11 "Of which salvation the prophets have enquired and searched diligently, who prophesied of the grace that should come unto you:"1 11 "Searching what, or what manner of time the Spirit of Christ which was in them did signify, when it testified beforehand the sufferings of Christ, and the glory that should follow."

Ok, where was Jesus? in the Prophet, not in flesh but in "Spirit". for Jesus is the Spirit, and God is a, a, a, Spirit meaning ONE, (see John 4:24a). so Christ the flesh was not in the OT, but JESUS the eternal Spirit who is God before he came in flesh was in the OT. supportive scripture, 1 Corinthians 10:2-4 "And were all baptized unto Moses in the cloud and in the sea;" 3 "And did all eat the same spiritual meat;" 4 "And did all drink the same spiritual drink: for they drank of that spiritual Rock that followed them: and that Rock was Christ."
the Spiritual Rock in the OT was JESUS the Christ without flesh & blood. lets confirm this. lets find out who is this "ROCK?". Deuteronomy 32:3 & 4 "Because I will publish the name of the LORD: ascribe ye greatness unto our God." 4 "He is the Rock, his work is perfect: for all his ways are judgment: a God of truth and without iniquity, just and right is he."

there it is Jesus without flesh before he came in Flesh is the Rock ... the LORD all caps. in flesh he's Lord. the same person

please note: in Deuteronomy 32:4 He Jesus the ROCK is describe as the God of "TRUTH". listen, John 14:16-18 "And I will pray the Father, and he shall give you another Comforter, that he may abide with you for ever;" 17 "Even the Spirit of truth; whom the world cannot receive, because it seeth him not, neither knoweth him: but ye know him; for he dwelleth with you, and shall be in you." 18 "I will not leave you comfortless: I will come to you."

the God of "TRUTH" is JESUS the HOLY SPIRIT. John 14:5 & ^ "Thomas saith unto him, Lord, we know not whither thou goest; and how can we know the way?" 6 "Jesus saith unto him, I am the way, the truth, and the life: no man cometh unto the Father, but by me."

Jesus the God of TRUTH is the same God according to the apostle Peter in 1 peter 1:10 & 11, who was in the prophets in the OT, and the apostle Paul confirmes also this same truth, that JESUS who is called Christ is the ROCK ot the OT, the God of TRUTH, without flesh, without bone, and without blood.

Now here's a revelation. by the LORD Jesus manifesting in flesh the IMAGE of himself... GOD, he is the US and the OUR of Genesis 1:26 that was to come in that IMAGE... flesh in a body, this "US" and "OUR" is God describing his own IMAGE to come in ... flesh a body, by making "ANOTHER" Adam. for Adam means "ANOTHER",
Adam: H120 אָדָם 'adam (aw-dawm') n-m.
ruddy i.e. a human being (an individual or the species, mankind, etc.).
[from H119]
KJV: X another, + hypocrite, + common sort, X low, man (mean, of low degree), person.
Root(s): H119

there it is "ANOTHER" that's how the kjv can translate Adam, which is ANOTHER of himself in flesh, hence the "US" and the "OUR". for the apostle confirm this, scripture, Romans 5:14 "Nevertheless death reigned from Adam to Moses, even over them that had not sinned after the similitude of Adam's transgression, who is the figure of him that was to come." the one to come is the ANOTHER of himself in Flesh, the LAST "ADAM". this is the "US" and the "OUR" reference in Genesis 1:26 which was to come. that's why verse 27 said, "he" and "him" made them. so the "figure" to come is God himself in flesh that Image. which in the Greek is know as the G243 allos, which expresses a numerical difference and denotes another of the same sort. same sort, means the SAME NATURE, just as Phil 2:6 states, but a numerical difference, "ANOTHER" or the SHARE of himself in flesh. by sharing himself in flesh it is he who is in that flesh bodyas the equal share of himself. so you're correct with the sctiptures when they say, "he that hath seen me hath seen the Father". BINGO, Jesus is the Father in Flesh, this is known as being the "diversity" of God himself in flesh..

understand Titles: LORD = Jesus without flesh and blood, OT "I AM"
Lord = Jesus Shared, or diversified in flesh and blood. NT, "THAT I AM". "I AM THAT I AM.


hope that helped.

PICJAG.
 

101G

Well-Known Member
1 The Revelation of Jesus Christ, which God gave unto him, to shew unto his servants things which must shortly come to pass; and he sent and signified it by his angel unto his servant John:

I understand that to mean that God gave to Jesus the words of the Revelation and that Jesus in turn gave it to his angel who then gave it to John.

So, we have God giving it to Jesus, Jesus giving it to his angel. his angel giving it to John, and John giving to the servants what he was shown by signs from the angel.

Look at it this way; the angel was the second party to receive the Revelation. He received it from Jesus, who was the first party to receive it. Jesus received it from God, where it originated.
So, it would be correct to say that God sent the angel and that Jesus sent the angel. Just as it would be correct to say that God is Savior and Jesus is Savior.
Jesus is God in flesh. as said, he is the diversity of his ownself in flesh. to prove this again, while in revelation, read chapter 4 & 5. question who sits on the throne? answer Jesus. now who is standing as a Lamb that was slain, (chapter 5)? answer Jesus. and notice the One standing came and took the book out of the hand of the one sitting on the throne. it's the same person, just "diversified" in flesh. so it was not some separate person who gave our Lord the revelation in 1:1 no, it's the same person. the symbology of the giving of something to another is to show the working of God which is not understood of men. don't think something was physically given, no, that symbolic for us to understand. just as God is not physically sitting on a physical throne in heaven. especially on anyone's right hand. by the way right hand simply symbolize "POWER", and as High Priest, when he sits, that's symbolic for his work is finish. so read rev chapters 4 & 5 and understand how the operation of God in "diversity" works.
it's the same one person sits is standing.

hope this helps.

PICJAG.
 

LightofTruth

Well-Known Member
again, not saying that you're right or wrong, but lets fine tune what you said, because you're on the right track. the term "WITH" the Father is the SHARE to Come in flesh. for, "Show us the Father", is JESUS, you're correct, but in flesh. the same Spirit that was in that flesh is the same Spirit that was in the prophets, (Spirit), prophesying. supportive scripture, 1 Peter 1:10 & 11 "Of which salvation the prophets have enquired and searched diligently, who prophesied of the grace that should come unto you:"1 11 "Searching what, or what manner of time the Spirit of Christ which was in them did signify, when it testified beforehand the sufferings of Christ, and the glory that should follow."

Ok, where was Jesus? in the Prophet, not in flesh but in "Spirit". for Jesus is the Spirit, and God is a, a, a, Spirit meaning ONE, (see John 4:24a). so Christ the flesh was not in the OT, but JESUS the eternal Spirit who is God before he came in flesh was in the OT. supportive scripture, 1 Corinthians 10:2-4 "And were all baptized unto Moses in the cloud and in the sea;" 3 "And did all eat the same spiritual meat;" 4 "And did all drink the same spiritual drink: for they drank of that spiritual Rock that followed them: and that Rock was Christ."
the Spiritual Rock in the OT was JESUS the Christ without flesh & blood. lets confirm this. lets find out who is this "ROCK?". Deuteronomy 32:3 & 4 "Because I will publish the name of the LORD: ascribe ye greatness unto our God." 4 "He is the Rock, his work is perfect: for all his ways are judgment: a God of truth and without iniquity, just and right is he."

there it is Jesus without flesh before he came in Flesh is the Rock ... the LORD all caps. in flesh he's Lord. the same person

please note: in Deuteronomy 32:4 He Jesus the ROCK is describe as the God of "TRUTH". listen, John 14:16-18 "And I will pray the Father, and he shall give you another Comforter, that he may abide with you for ever;" 17 "Even the Spirit of truth; whom the world cannot receive, because it seeth him not, neither knoweth him: but ye know him; for he dwelleth with you, and shall be in you." 18 "I will not leave you comfortless: I will come to you."

the God of "TRUTH" is JESUS the HOLY SPIRIT. John 14:5 & ^ "Thomas saith unto him, Lord, we know not whither thou goest; and how can we know the way?" 6 "Jesus saith unto him, I am the way, the truth, and the life: no man cometh unto the Father, but by me."

Jesus the God of TRUTH is the same God according to the apostle Peter in 1 peter 1:10 & 11, who was in the prophets in the OT, and the apostle Paul confirmes also this same truth, that JESUS who is called Christ is the ROCK ot the OT, the God of TRUTH, without flesh, without bone, and without blood.

Now here's a revelation. by the LORD Jesus manifesting in flesh the IMAGE of himself... GOD, he is the US and the OUR of Genesis 1:26 that was to come in that IMAGE... flesh in a body, this "US" and "OUR" is God describing his own IMAGE to come in ... flesh a body, by making "ANOTHER" Adam. for Adam means "ANOTHER",
Adam: H120 אָדָם 'adam (aw-dawm') n-m.
ruddy i.e. a human being (an individual or the species, mankind, etc.).
[from H119]
KJV: X another, + hypocrite, + common sort, X low, man (mean, of low degree), person.
Root(s): H119

there it is "ANOTHER" that's how the kjv can translate Adam, which is ANOTHER of himself in flesh, hence the "US" and the "OUR". for the apostle confirm this, scripture, Romans 5:14 "Nevertheless death reigned from Adam to Moses, even over them that had not sinned after the similitude of Adam's transgression, who is the figure of him that was to come." the one to come is the ANOTHER of himself in Flesh, the LAST "ADAM". this is the "US" and the "OUR" reference in Genesis 1:26 which was to come. that's why verse 27 said, "he" and "him" made them. so the "figure" to come is God himself in flesh that Image. which in the Greek is know as the G243 allos, which expresses a numerical difference and denotes another of the same sort. same sort, means the SAME NATURE, just as Phil 2:6 states, but a numerical difference, "ANOTHER" or the SHARE of himself in flesh. by sharing himself in flesh it is he who is in that flesh bodyas the equal share of himself. so you're correct with the sctiptures when they say, "he that hath seen me hath seen the Father". BINGO, Jesus is the Father in Flesh, this is known as being the "diversity" of God himself in flesh..

understand Titles: LORD = Jesus without flesh and blood, OT "I AM"
Lord = Jesus Shared, or diversified in flesh and blood. NT, "THAT I AM". "I AM THAT I AM.


hope that helped.

PICJAG.
I do not think Christ was an immaterial Spirit who was in the prophets when they spoke of him. I think it means that when the prophets spoke of Christ they were speaking of him by the Spirit of God amd since they were speaking of Christ, by the Spirit, it's called the Spirit of Christ.

The same can be said of the laws that the children of Israel were given by Moses. the laws were a shadow of good things to come and they pointed to Christ. Therefore, the laws were the Spirit of Christ as they were being led in the wilderness. it is said that Christ was to follow what they were being taught.
 

101G

Well-Known Member
I do not think Christ was an immaterial Spirit who was in the prophets when they spoke of him. I think it means that when the prophets spoke of Christ they were speaking of him by the Spirit of God amd since they were speaking of Christ, by the Spirit, it's called the Spirit of Christ.

The same can be said of the laws that the children of Israel were given by Moses. the laws were a shadow of good things to come and they pointed to Christ. Therefore, the laws were the Spirit of Christ as they were being led in the wilderness. it is said that Christ was to follow what they were being taught.
first thanks for the reply. yes, JESUS is God the Spirit, without flesh and without bone, and without blood in the OT. meaning he was not physical,but Spirit. and remember, THERE IS ONLY ONE SPIRIT. understand, all the prophets said something like this, "The word of the LORD came unto me". so what came and what was in them? Spirit. not flesh and bone.

JESUS is the invisible God of the OT .... LORD. and JESUS is the visible God of the NT Lord. it's just that simple. there is no need for people to make up a doctrine when the doctrine of God is in plain view in the bible. again, JESUS is the "diversity" of himself in flesh. for he is both father and son at the same time.supportive scripture,John 3:13 "And no man hath ascended up to heaven, but he that came down from heaven, even the Son of man which is in heaven." while on earth in a body of flesh, bones, and blood, (as the Son), speaking to Nicodemus, he was at the same time in heave, (as the Father) upholding all things. this is accomplish by being "diversified".

PICJAG.
 

LightofTruth

Well-Known Member
first thanks for the reply. yes, JESUS is God the Spirit, without flesh and without bone, and without blood in the OT. meaning he was not physical,but Spirit. and remember, THERE IS ONLY ONE SPIRIT. understand, all the prophets said something like this, "The word of the LORD came unto me". so what came and what was in them? Spirit. not flesh and bone.

JESUS is the invisible God of the OT .... LORD. and JESUS is the visible God of the NT Lord. it's just that simple. there is no need for people to make up a doctrine when the doctrine of God is in plain view in the bible. again, JESUS is the "diversity" of himself in flesh. for he is both father and son at the same time.supportive scripture,John 3:13 "And no man hath ascended up to heaven, but he that came down from heaven, even the Son of man which is in heaven." while on earth in a body of flesh, bones, and blood, (as the Son), speaking to Nicodemus, he was at the same time in heave, (as the Father) upholding all things. this is accomplish by being "diversified".

PICJAG.
Our understanding differs. What I understand Jesus meant when saying to Nicodemus that he was both in heaven and right there speaking to Nicodemus, was that the same Spirit of the Father in heaven was in Jesus..And that's why Jesus can be referred to as the Father. Or why he would say that if you saw him you have seen the Father. Not that Jesus is his own Father, but that they both share of the same Spirit.

I think it's ridiculous to think that Jesus would pray to himself, or that the Father would say: "This is my son" if they were the same person.
 

101G

Well-Known Member
Our understanding differs. What I understand Jesus meant when saying to Nicodemus that he was both in heaven and right there speaking to Nicodemus, was that the same Spirit of the Father in heaven was in Jesus..And that's why Jesus can be referred to as the Father. Or why he would say that if you saw him you have seen the Father. Not that Jesus is his own Father, but that they both share of the same Spirit.

I think it's ridiculous to think that Jesus would pray to himself, or that the Father would say: "This is my son" if they were the same person.
first thanks for the reply. well not so. for Jesus in the flesh was the (son) the Body on earth, which died. while the Head (Father) was in heaven,
and hear's my reasoning. the Son the (Body) on earth died. HOW? that's the question, for God who is a Spirit cannot die. but his BODY did. so how did that happen? answer, the Spirit "shared" himself in that flesh to die. remember the Spirit that was in that body did something, he G2758 κενόω kenoo (ke-no-ō') v. himsel, or was made lower than the angel so that he could tast death.

understand, how could the Spirit G2758 κενόω kenoo himself? if so the universe would come to a halt. so by "diversifying" himsel he can be in Heaven in full power as alway, and yet, be G2758 κενόω kenoo in a body of flesh while on the earth. it's just that simple.

see, you almost have it right or right if you're saying that they are the same person. not two separate person but one person shared in flesh, when you said, "Not that Jesus is his own Father, but that they both share of the same Spirit". for they is the same and one self Spirit, not two, but the same one person, only shared in flesh.

now as for praying, who did the Holy Spirit pray to? listen, Romans 8:26 & 27 "Likewise the Spirit also helpeth our infirmities: for we know not what we should pray for as we ought: but the Spirit itself maketh intercession for us with groanings which cannot be uttered." 27 "And he that searcheth the hearts knoweth what is the mind of the Spirit, because he maketh intercession for the saints according to the will of God."

and please note: that Jesus is the Holy Ghost, God almighty. diversified in flesh. so yes God talk to himself, don't you? .... :D just don't answer back.

but as the "diversity" of himself, he's the another of himself G2758 κενόω kenoo in a body of flesh. while on the earth. one might want to study up on G243 Allos and what it means. Vine's Expository Dictionary of New Testament Words gives the best definition of "ANOTHER" while pointing out the difference between G243 Allos as the another vs G2087 heteros as the "another".


PICJAG.
 

metis

aged ecumenical anthropologist
I agree with your comments, the issue is, that it “adds” Greek philosophy to the teachings of Christ.
Greek was the lingua of the early Church and also Judaism in the diasporah. It doesn't change what Jesus said as the Trinitarian concept is an interpretation of a lengthy series of verses in regards to how Jesus relates to God. The main thing is that it posits the Jesus and the Holy Spirit are of the "essence" of God. Even the Eucharist, the "essence" of the "Last Supper", uses this technique.

Anyhow, I gotta cut this short as I'm gonna be out the door shortly.

Take care.
 

lostwanderingsoul

Well-Known Member
We'll be resurrected but we won't be God. What church teaches what you're claiming - that believers become God? Be specific.
Why does ecerything have to come from a church? Don't people have a mind of their own. There are thousands of religions. Who can say if one is right or wrong. Use your own brain and figure it out. If I am Gopd's son, then I must be the samr kind of being that God is. No?
 

101G

Well-Known Member
GINOLJC, to all
Our understanding differs. What I understand Jesus meant when saying to Nicodemus that he was both in heaven and right there speaking to Nicodemus, was that the same Spirit of the Father in heaven was in Jesus..And that's why Jesus can be referred to as the Father. Or why he would say that if you saw him you have seen the Father. Not that Jesus is his own Father, but that they both share of the same Spirit.

first thanks for the post, it was very interesting to read. but I have a few question on the Spirit, or spirit, that was in JESUS, the Christ

#1. the spirit, notice the small case "s" in spirit. was this the Spirit or the spirit that was in the flesh at the birth of the child according Isaiah 9:6 and confirmed in Matthews 1:23? the reason why I ask is this, Hebrews 2:9 "But we see Jesus, who was made a little lower than the angels for the suffering of death, crowned with glory and honour; that he by the grace of God should taste death for every man." and this scripture, Philippians 2:7 "But made himself of no reputation, and took upon him the form of a servant, and was made in the likeness of men:".

ok, the spirit that was in Jesus is made lower than the angels, meaning ..... a human spirit. for there is only God, the angels and us. so question, "is this the same Spirit, or spirit that was in heaven at the same time when he was speaking to Nicodemus while on earth?" remember Phil 2:6 states that he is "EQUAL" with him. but in phil 2:7 he was made lower.

#2. or was it the Spirit who was speaking to Nicodemus while in heaven, please notice the capital "S" in Spirit, meaning the same Spirit that rested on him at at baptism, or the same Spirit that he, when was made lower is "EQUAL" with, per Phil 2:6..
the reason we ask this, Luke 24:39 & 40 "Behold my hands and my feet, that it is I myself: handle me, and see; for a spirit hath not flesh and bones, as ye see me have." 40 "And when he had thus spoken, he shewed them his hands and his feet."
ok, remember, God is a Spirit, according to John 4:24a, notice the capital "S" in Spirit there. but what our Lord Jesus said is, "for a spirit hath not flesh and bones, as ye see me have". notice the small case "s" here in spirit, but is he not GOD? yes according to Thomas in John 20:28. so my question is this, sorry, 2 questions, A. is the "spirit" in Luke 24 is the same same "spirit" that is "EQUAL" with God according to Phil 2:6. when that is answered,
B. so, who was speaking to Nicodemus on earth, the capital "S" Spirit in heaven, that rested on him at his Baptism, or the lower case "s" spirit in that body of flesh called the Son of God, which one?

PICJAG.
 

Spartan

Well-Known Member
Why does ecerything have to come from a church? Don't people have a mind of their own. There are thousands of religions. Who can say if one is right or wrong. Use your own brain and figure it out. If I am Gopd's son, then I must be the samr kind of being that God is. No?

To say there are thousands of religions is fine, but to insinuate that there can't be one that is right, with the others being wrong, is an argument you'll have to prove.
 

lostwanderingsoul

Well-Known Member
To say there are thousands of religions is fine, but to insinuate that there can't be one that is right, with the others being wrong, is an argument you'll have to prove.
I insinuate nothing. You tell me which is right or wrong. And you did not say if the son of a god must also be a god. What would you call a son of a god? Something other than a god? It is only common sense. But people do not use common sense because they are so worried about whay some church told them. I am not saying any church is right. But if you are part of God's family what could you possibly be but a god? You could have a pet but that pet is not really part of your family. It is property you own. For someone to be a true part of a human family, that someone must be a human. God does not have pets and anyone who is part of God's family must be a god. How can you say anything else? And I mean how can you personally say anything else. Not what some church may have said. So you are good at asking for proof. So what can you personally prove? Anything?
 

Spartan

Well-Known Member
I insinuate nothing. You tell me which is right or wrong. And you did not say if the son of a god must also be a god. What would you call a son of a god? Something other than a god? It is only common sense. But people do not use common sense because they are so worried about whay some church told them. I am not saying any church is right. But if you are part of God's family what could you possibly be but a god? You could have a pet but that pet is not really part of your family. It is property you own. For someone to be a true part of a human family, that someone must be a human. God does not have pets and anyone who is part of God's family must be a god. How can you say anything else? And I mean how can you personally say anything else. Not what some church may have said. So you are good at asking for proof. So what can you personally prove? Anything?

Jesus is Jehovah. So is God the Father and the Holy Spirit. Consider that a "family name." Jesus Must be Jehovah

Jesus is only the Son of God by virtue of his incarnation. Prior to the incarnation Jesus was Jehovah.

You need evidence for Christianity? Recommend you do your homework then. Here's some recommended reading if you're serious:

"The Historical Jesus," by scholar Dr. Gary Habermas;

“The Historical Jesus of the Gospels,” by Dr. Craig Keener

"New Evidence that Demands a Verdict," by former skeptic Josh McDowell;

"Baker Encyclopedia of Christian Apologetics," by Dr. Norman Geisler;

"The Case for Christ," by Lee Strobel," and

"The Case for the Resurrection of Jesus," by Dr. Gary Habermas.

“Miracles – The Credibility of the New Testament Accounts,” by Craig S. Keener

“The Case for Miracles,” by Lee Strobel
 
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