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Is Twelve Shiism proved in the Quran?

Link

Veteran Member
Premium Member
This is a question. To me it is. I can be quoting about 1/3 of Quran or I can just be brief and summarize.

(1) There are many verses about chosen household concept. This concept shows in the past, Messengers didn't come on solo missions, but always had other Messengers with them, with each Navigating Captain that is the name of God, there are other Captains and Navigators who too are Images and Names of God and who are together spiritually and on same associated mission on earth. This concept has many names in Quran, including "The folks of the house", "The family of the reminder", "houses God has permitted to be risen" "The family of ___" (fill in name of a Prophet). There are verses that are very explicit with this like "God chose Adam and Noah and the family of Abraham and the family of Imran over the worlds." This concept of family doesn't include all blood relatives or wives but specially chosen people - for example - for the Household of Abraham, Sarah is included, Ishmael is included, Isaac is included, but not every son of Jacob is included, however Joseph is included from sons of Jacob for example. They are referred to as "the branches" (asbat) (going back to same root and origin)and there are ahadith in Sunni Sources as well that say "verily Hussain is from the branches (Asbat)." Related to this concept, is that concept of God also choosing to place in offspring of the Prophets or their brothers or their cousins, or some sort of relationship. This is throughout Quran. Surely this concept was made way so that we believe in the final chosen household and current household chosen by God in our time.

(2) Authority is connected to the above concept, and it was comparing a certain people and contrasting scholars of Jews and Christians - reminded of the household of Abraham to compare family of Mohammad to be analogous to be given the same authority on earth, and also to contrast the religious clergy of Jews and Christians opposing the household of Mohammad with the family of Abraham showing the reason the Torah manifested the family of Abraham was not to makes Jews special over others, but that God guides through chosen households like the family of Abraham and scholars have no comparison nor is the purity attributed to certain people the same as God attributing purity to his chosen ones through his divine books. This is clear in the verses preceding and following after 4:59 that give context to 4:59.

(3) The Number Twelve has been emphasized through out Quran with respect to Leadership and relying and drinking from God's revealed sources of information as opposed to others who claim to represent his religion. In all four places, this is the context they have in the chapter. In one place, it's further emphasized to not go extreme in deifying chosen ones, but just see each one, as part of a family, who has a founder and Twelve Successors, and all of them are together travelling to God together while at the same time to exalt them and not mix with glorifying others to their status. Taking the mention of Twelve playfully and with mockery, as if not important, of course, is due to nothing but the dark magic from Iblis and his forces who try to blind people to the flow of Quran and how all the verses interlinked and lock each other up with respect to meaning and interpretation leaving no ambiguity in the book at all. The ambiguity that comes from the book is due to our own injustice and us choosing to rely on what is unclear rather then seek it's insights and proofs, and reflecting on it's clear bright signs. It's done when we seek to subdue the Quran to our views, rather then altering our views to the Quran.

(4) The Quran is about manifesting the position of revelation yes, true, but also the position of the chosen guides who revelation is united with and who are to be approached to understand it. The rope of God is not just the Quran nor just the family, but when they go together as one, the rope is established. God's words and his living words, his name in theory and his name in reality, go together. The word of light is not just Mohammad and his family without Quran nor Quran without the family of Mohammad, but when they go together. Most of the Quran is emphasizing that you can't separate the chosen ones and the need of them from the need of revelation, and also explains why God doesn't talk directly to us and also doesn't bring down books from the sky for all of us to touch with our hands.

(5) One of the warnings of Quran and most repeated, is about destroyed nations of the past. There is promise binding on God to delivers believers from their oppressors. He destroys the oppressive people and condemns those who forget God is the super power full stop, no but yes, but we are 2nd power etc, no, it means, if you believe in God, then he is the super power and will destroy those who act arrogantly in the earth. Quran is trying to get most people to take side of God's final warner to humanity, which will not bring a revelation and book to people, as Prophethood is sealed, but will be none the less a Messenger who will revive the message of Quran and even bring to new heights of understanding. That person is the Mahdi. Miracles all have a purpose, and didn't come to die out forever, but will one day return. And if we accuse the Mahdi of being a sorcerer, we will perish is one of the most repeated warnings of Quran. Yes, you have to read between the lines, to get this, but it is yet so clear and obvious and there is no other way to read it like this, unless, you become an idiot who thinks the verses no longer have relevance to us, and don't see the timeless nature of Quran and it's warnings.
 

shunyadragon

shunyadragon
Premium Member
Nothing is 'proven' in religion. It is believed based on ones belief. I do not believe that the Quran can specifically supported nor 'prove' Shiism nor Sunni Islam as the true successor of the mantle of faith for Islam. Both sides claim an argument to justify their belief system.
 
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Link

Veteran Member
Premium Member
False religions cannot be proven. The true religion can and God is capable of proving every aspect of it.
 

shunyadragon

shunyadragon
Premium Member
False religions cannot be proven. The true religion can and God is capable of proving every aspect of it.

Considering the numerous conflicting divisions in religion including Islam, God may Reveal, but it is humans that divide and conflict as with Shiism and Sunni, and both claim to be true in a bloody conflicted history. Christians in their various divisions and Judaism claim that God is on their side.

Where can you show me God is 'proving' which is the true belief system?
 
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Link

Veteran Member
Premium Member
Considering the numerous conflicting divisions in religion including Islam, God may Reveal, but it is humans that divide and conflict as with Shiism and Sunni, and both claim to be true in a bloody conflicted history. Christians in their various divisions and Judaism claim that God is on their side.

Where can you show me God is 'proving' which is the true belief system?

God proves but people don't seek to understand and don't reflect is the problem.
 

LuisDantas

Aura of atheification
Premium Member
God proves but people don't seek to understand and don't reflect is the problem.
One has to wonder how people could even have the means to avoid such a realization.

It sure sounds much simpler and more believable (to say nothing of supported by facts) to simply accept that there is no demonstrably authentic revelation from God.

It would be very difficult to explain the existence of these literal thousands of conflicting theistic claims otherwise. Unless, I suppose, one accepts that God loves confusion...
 

Link

Veteran Member
Premium Member
If you read Quran and read a brief commentary on some of it's verses I did in the OP, that should suffice.
 

shunyadragon

shunyadragon
Premium Member
If you read Quran and read a brief commentary on some of it's verses I did in the OP, that should suffice.

The Sunni will cite the same versus and reach a different conclusion.

Where can you show me God is 'proving' which is the true belief system?
 

Link

Veteran Member
Premium Member
People not accepting God proofs is not reason to believe he didn't clarify and present proofs regarding the true religion. People differ despite knowledge provided by God to them.
 

shunyadragon

shunyadragon
Premium Member
People not accepting God proofs is not reason to believe he didn't clarify and present proofs regarding the true religion. People differ despite knowledge provided by God to them.

Proofs? not provided. Only your interpretation of your scripture to justify your belief.
 

Link

Veteran Member
Premium Member
Proofs? not provided. Only your interpretation of your scripture to justify your belief.

It's not just my interpretation but an interpretation that has support for it in many hadiths from the Prophet and his family, and if you don't allow the chosen ones to make you hear the revelation properly, you are sentencing yourself to blindness and spiritual death.
 
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