The Central Paradox of All Faiths

sealchan · Dec 9, 2019

I've had an audacious thought that naturally wants me to let it loose on the Internet...

The central revelation of all religion is the understanding and preservation of the meaning and value of the Name and that to which it refers. Meaning arises from the Name being good and valuable and in some way belonging to its knower. The meaning of the Name must not be sullied by associations with what is bad or of no value. In truth the Name pervades all things in such a way that the right mental effort yields value in all things THROUGH the Name.

The Name is knowable but not finally reducible to any other specific physical object or mental idea. It is, in this sense, immune to critique or corruption even as it is ephemeral in the extreme. Those who literalize or otherwise try to anchor the subject of the Name to an idea or physical reality create the potential for the corruption of that name. At the same time it requires a continuous diligence in our hearts and minds not to want to corrupt the Name in exactly this way.

Anyway any sincere thoughts welcome.

sun rise · Dec 9, 2019

sealchan said:
I've had an audacious thought that naturally wants me to let it loose on the Internet...

The central revelation of all religion is the understanding and preservation of the meaning and value of the Name and that to which it refers. Meaning arises from the Name being good and valuable and in some way belonging to its knower. The meaning of the Name must not be sullied by associations with what is bad or of no value. In truth the Name pervades all things in such a way that the right mental effort yields value in all things THROUGH the Name.

The Name is knowable but not finally reducible to any other specific physical object or mental idea. It is, in this sense, immune to critique or corruption even as it is ephemeral in the extreme. Those who literalize or otherwise try to anchor the subject of the Name to an idea or physical reality create the potential for the corruption of that name. At the same time it requires a continuous diligence in our hearts and minds not to want to corrupt the Name in exactly this way.

Anyway any sincere thoughts welcome.

Repeating the Name and attributes of God according to one's religion or beliefs is considered by some to be the best form of prayer. From that perspective, what you wrote makes sense to me.

Vinayaka · Dec 9, 2019

sealchan said:
I've had an audacious thought that naturally wants me to let it loose on the Internet...

The central revelation of all religion is the understanding and preservation of the meaning and value of the Name and that to which it refers. Meaning arises from the Name being good and valuable and in some way belonging to its knower. The meaning of the Name must not be sullied by associations with what is bad or of no value. In truth the Name pervades all things in such a way that the right mental effort yields value in all things THROUGH the Name.

The Name is knowable but not finally reducible to any other specific physical object or mental idea. It is, in this sense, immune to critique or corruption even as it is ephemeral in the extreme. Those who literalize or otherwise try to anchor the subject of the Name to an idea or physical reality create the potential for the corruption of that name. At the same time it requires a continuous diligence in our hearts and minds not to want to corrupt the Name in exactly this way.

Anyway any sincere thoughts welcome.

I don't understand the NAME, or what it's supposed to mean, as it's outside my paradigm. Can you explain it to me?

beenherebeforeagain · Dec 9, 2019

There is no name in my belief that requires such protection.

Terry Sampson · Dec 9, 2019

Vinayaka said:
Can you explain it to me?

"A name" is, initially, relevant in a direct one-to-one communication. "Hey, you" is ambiguous and leaves room for any passerby to answer or for the person you're addressing to fail to realize that you're addressing him or her.

Skwim · Dec 9, 2019

sealchan said:
I've had an audacious thought that naturally wants me to let it loose on the Internet...

The central revelation of all religion is the understanding and preservation of the meaning and value of the Name and that to which it refers. Meaning arises from the Name being good and valuable and in some way belonging to its knower. The meaning of the Name must not be sullied by associations with what is bad or of no value. In truth the Name pervades all things in such a way that the right mental effort yields value in all things THROUGH the Name.

The Name is knowable but not finally reducible to any other specific physical object or mental idea. It is, in this sense, immune to critique or corruption even as it is ephemeral in the extreme. Those who literalize or otherwise try to anchor the subject of the Name to an idea or physical reality create the potential for the corruption of that name. At the same time it requires a continuous diligence in our hearts and minds not to want to corrupt the Name in exactly this way.

Anyway any sincere thoughts welcome.

Although you said "of all faiths" in your title, being a Christian I assume your Name would refer to "God," "God the Father," "God of Abraham," "Jehovah," or "Yahweh," In which case not associating him with what is bad or of no value is to ignore what he's done. But what the hey, this is done all the time.

.

.

sealchan · Dec 9, 2019

Vinayaka said:
I don't understand the NAME, or what it's supposed to mean, as it's outside my paradigm. Can you explain it to me?

The Name is simply the name of God or of some central principle of why and how things work. Buddha-nature, etc. Whatever that central WORD is (plus that "thing" which it is meant to refer to), it has the quality of the NAME.

dybmh · Dec 9, 2019

sealchan said:
I've had an audacious thought that naturally wants me to let it loose on the Internet...

The central revelation of all religion is the understanding and preservation of the meaning and value of the Name and that to which it refers. Meaning arises from the Name being good and valuable and in some way belonging to its knower. The meaning of the Name must not be sullied by associations with what is bad or of no value. In truth the Name pervades all things in such a way that the right mental effort yields value in all things THROUGH the Name.

The Name is knowable but not finally reducible to any other specific physical object or mental idea. It is, in this sense, immune to critique or corruption even as it is ephemeral in the extreme. Those who literalize or otherwise try to anchor the subject of the Name to an idea or physical reality create the potential for the corruption of that name. At the same time it requires a continuous diligence in our hearts and minds not to want to corrupt the Name in exactly this way.

Anyway any sincere thoughts welcome.

I think it's a brilliant assessment. Of course... you probably know me well enough by now to know... I'm already trying to think of counter-examples.

I can only think of one. But I'm not sure if it's a religion.

Non-Dualism... neti-neti... and such. If this is considered a religion ( and I'm not sure that it does ), then it soars far beyond any name at all.

Windwalker · Dec 9, 2019

sealchan said:
The central revelation of all religion is the understanding and preservation of the meaning and value of the Name and that to which it refers. Meaning arises from the Name being good and valuable and in some way belonging to its knower. The meaning of the Name must not be sullied by associations with what is bad or of no value. In truth the Name pervades all things in such a way that the right mental effort yields value in all things THROUGH the Name.

I think there are probably several ways to express this. I see what you are saying as "Name" symbolizing all the highest, divine qualities in us that is provoked through inspiration in such high, archetypal symbols. "God", or "Brahman", inspires an image of the divine within us, and thus connects us with our highest Self, or that which is beyond the small egoic self as the center of our own existence, and is found in everything that exists. It need not be pronounced, or named, as that can change it from That which is all-encompassing, to an "it" or an object of curiosity.

sealchan said:
The Name is knowable but not finally reducible to any other specific physical object or mental idea.

But once named, therein lies the danger. "The Tao that can be named, is not the Tao". Making God an object for discussion, reduces it to nothing more than an extension of our own egos, a discussion or our ideas about God. Not an expression of the being of God, in our own being in the world. That's not named, that's danced.

sealchan said:
It is, in this sense, immune to critique or corruption even as it is ephemeral in the extreme. Those who literalize or otherwise try to anchor the subject of the Name to an idea or physical reality create the potential for the corruption of that name. At the same time it requires a continuous diligence in our hearts and minds not to want to corrupt the Name in exactly this way.

Anyway any sincere thoughts welcome.

The "Name" is a metaphor for the Self, that we look to in hopes to find Who we always have been.

Vinayaka · Dec 9, 2019

Terry Sampson said:
"A name" is, initially, relevant in a direct one-to-one communication. "Hey, you" is ambiguous and leaves room for any passerby to answer or for the person you're addressing to fail to realize that you're addressing him or her.

I meant 'Name' with a capital, but sure.

Vinayaka · Dec 9, 2019

sealchan said:
The Name is simply the name of God or of some central principle of why and how things work. Buddha-nature, etc. Whatever that central WORD is (plus that "thing" which it is meant to refer to), it has the quality of the NAME.

Never heard of this before, but then I'm not familiar with that line of thinking. Why not just say God, if that's what you mean?

dybmh · Dec 9, 2019

Vinayaka said:
Never heard of this before, but then I'm not familiar with that line of thinking. Why not just say God, if that's what you mean?

May I help?

It's a garment, a material trapping, fringes on God's leather jacket... a Name helps the human mind attach to it.

For belief systems that encourage detachment.. the Name becomes much less important.

Nakosis · Dec 9, 2019

sealchan said:
I've had an audacious thought that naturally wants me to let it loose on the Internet...

The central revelation of all religion is the understanding and preservation of the meaning and value of the Name and that to which it refers. Meaning arises from the Name being good and valuable and in some way belonging to its knower. The meaning of the Name must not be sullied by associations with what is bad or of no value. In truth the Name pervades all things in such a way that the right mental effort yields value in all things THROUGH the Name.

The Name is knowable but not finally reducible to any other specific physical object or mental idea. It is, in this sense, immune to critique or corruption even as it is ephemeral in the extreme. Those who literalize or otherwise try to anchor the subject of the Name to an idea or physical reality create the potential for the corruption of that name. At the same time it requires a continuous diligence in our hearts and minds not to want to corrupt the Name in exactly this way.

Anyway any sincere thoughts welcome.

The Name, to my understanding, is the template/plan/foundation of creation. What I suspect we corrupt is ourselves if we try to alter the Name to our own needs. I'd suppose we are pretty insignificant. I doubt there is anything man could do to affect the purity of the universe. Man can only affect the purity of himself.

Bird123 · Dec 9, 2019

sealchan said:
I've had an audacious thought that naturally wants me to let it loose on the Internet...

The central revelation of all religion is the understanding and preservation of the meaning and value of the Name and that to which it refers. Meaning arises from the Name being good and valuable and in some way belonging to its knower. The meaning of the Name must not be sullied by associations with what is bad or of no value. In truth the Name pervades all things in such a way that the right mental effort yields value in all things THROUGH the Name.

The Name is knowable but not finally reducible to any other specific physical object or mental idea. It is, in this sense, immune to critique or corruption even as it is ephemeral in the extreme. Those who literalize or otherwise try to anchor the subject of the Name to an idea or physical reality create the potential for the corruption of that name. At the same time it requires a continuous diligence in our hearts and minds not to want to corrupt the Name in exactly this way.

Anyway any sincere thoughts welcome.

One must never question. It will allow truth to creep in and destroy the Belief believers want to believe in so badly.

Everybody wants to rule the world. The choice is whether to seek the real truth or stay comfortable surrounded by those unquestionable beliefs.

I think it's sad that people do not insist on truth. On the other hand, given enough time and lessons, real truth will be realized.

It's all one more lesson to learn.

amorphous_constellation · Dec 9, 2019

sealchan said:
The central revelation of all religion is the understanding and preservation of the meaning and value of the Name and that to which it refers. Meaning arises from the Name being good and valuable and in some way belonging to its knower. The meaning of the Name must not be sullied by associations with what is bad or of no value. In truth the Name pervades all things in such a way that the right mental effort yields value in all things THROUGH the Name.

The Name is knowable but not finally reducible to any other specific physical object or mental idea. It is, in this sense, immune to critique or corruption even as it is ephemeral in the extreme. Those who literalize or otherwise try to anchor the subject of the Name to an idea or physical reality create the potential for the corruption of that name. At the same time it requires a continuous diligence in our hearts and minds not to want to corrupt the Name in exactly this way.

As I'm in the midst of reading norse mythology, there is a passage there that I think argues the opposite, where odin is given over fifty names, because there were "so many branches of tongues in the world, all peoples believed that it was needful for them to turn his name into their own tongue, by which they might the better invoke him and entreat him on their own."

So then an argument may be that naming god is a subjective human effort, accessed through culture and language, and thus cannot really be sullied since it is not objectively seen. The allfather is often explained to be a shapeshifter as well. Perhaps all this might have a biblical analog in the use of the word elohim in genesis, which indicates that god is plural, or in other words, intended to be subjectively understood. On the other hand, the biblical word yahweh is more like the concept you describe, and I don't believe Jews are even allowed to utter it. That was perhaps the birth of god as an objective concept

Vinayaka · Dec 9, 2019

dybmh said:
May I help?

It's a garment, a material trapping, fringes on God's leather jacket... a Name helps the human mind attach to it.

For belief systems that encourage detachment.. the Name becomes much less important.

In the version of non-duality I'm familiar with, it is said to be formless and nameless ... beyond, time, and form. So there is no name for that.

OTOH each of the Hindu deities has sets of 108, and 1008 names.

dybmh · Dec 9, 2019

Vinayaka said:
In the version of non-duality I'm familiar with, it is said to be formless and nameless ... beyond, time, and form. So there is no name for that.

Seems like we agree? Am I missing something? Check out post#8 in this thread.

Perhaps your looking for an example of a belief system which encourages detachment but also is still slightly attached to a name?

Pure Land Buddhism.

Vinayaka · Dec 9, 2019

dybmh said:
Seems like we agree? Am I missing something?

Nope.

shunyadragon · Dec 9, 2019

sealchan said:
I've had an audacious thought that naturally wants me to let it loose on the Internet...

The central revelation of all religion is the understanding and preservation of the meaning and value of the Name and that to which it refers. Meaning arises from the Name being good and valuable and in some way belonging to its knower. The meaning of the Name must not be sullied by associations with what is bad or of no value. In truth the Name pervades all things in such a way that the right mental effort yields value in all things THROUGH the Name.

The Name is knowable but not finally reducible to any other specific physical object or mental idea. It is, in this sense, immune to critique or corruption even as it is ephemeral in the extreme. Those who literalize or otherwise try to anchor the subject of the Name to an idea or physical reality create the potential for the corruption of that name. At the same time it requires a continuous diligence in our hearts and minds not to want to corrupt the Name in exactly this way.

Anyway any sincere thoughts welcome.

Baha'i means follower of the light or glory.

Aupmanyav · Dec 10, 2019

sealchan said:
The Name is simply the name of God or of some central principle of why and how things work. Buddha-nature, etc. Whatever that central WORD is (plus that "thing" which it is meant to refer to), it has the quality of the NAME.

All have names, real things or imaginary, the Flying Spaghetti Monster or the Pink Unicorn.

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