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Some thoughts about evolution vs creation debates

nPeace

Veteran Member
@halbhh I just looked at this video, which seems to be making the point you were. Tell me if that is the case. The link starts from the point.
I like the illustration, of the man who believed he was dead. What a powerful illustration!

@Nimos I decided it would be pointless presenting the other theory to the one you prefer, after watching the video I linked above. I realize what the speaker presented, makes sense... and since it is already clear that despite knowing that the idea you so strongly believe to be true, has not been demonstrated to be true, you still hold on to that view... nothing I say will change that, and so, I think we will still continue to hold our views afterwards... which would not be beneficial to anyone, at this point.
So. Perhaps we may meet some other time, on a more progressive matter.
 

QuestioningMind

Well-Known Member
You don't know? Okay. In that case, let me inform you then. They are none... zero. No one feels threatened by the notion of evolution.
Me? Can I lol? HAHA HAAAAAAAAAAAAA.

Allow me to inform you further. Everyone believes in evolution. We see it everyday.
The Darwinian idea, and worldview, however, is another story.
It's an idea that even scientist say is impossible... but you, among others believe it.
Now who in their right mind, would feel threatened by an impossibility? No one. Only someone who has lost their mind would... I think.


Seems strong, but on reflection, after listening to a talk, I realize that referring to someone as a fool, might be appropriate. Actually the speaker referred to you guys as fools, and quoted Proverbs 1:7.
So I get it.


It depends on what the person is being educated in. If someone is being educated in foolishness, surely, they are not foolish for rejecting it. The other person may believe the person is ignorant, whereas they are not, and that's really the part I was looking at.

Obviously, you think that what you believe is correct, and anyone who disagrees is a fool.
I guess it works both ways.


Ah. You say you are not angry, but.... I don't believe you. I would like to, but I have seen too many Atheist react to someone opposing their most loved ideology, and... if they are not angry, then I think we should hide under a rock, if they truly become angry... Actually, I don't think a rock would save us. Suicide might be better.

How did you get me in this though?
Nothing you said involves me. So I have absolutely no reason to feel insulted. By what?
I was just thinking of those guys whom I am sure many are just as sincere in their beliefs, as you are.
Nothing to do with me.


Allow me to inform you further. Everyone believes in evolution. We see it everyday.
The Darwinian idea, and worldview, however, is another story.
It's an idea that even scientist say is impossible... but you, among others believe it.
Now who in their right mind, would feel threatened by an impossibility? No one. Only someone who has lost their mind would... I think.


Don't get out much, do you? Apparently you don't read many of the posts on this site, either. There re PLENTY of people who claim that evolution is an elaborate conspiracy invented by Satanists who hate God.

It depends on what the person is being educated in. If someone is being educated in foolishness, surely, they are not foolish for rejecting it. The other person may believe the person is ignorant, whereas they are not, and that's really the part I was looking at.

Obviously, you think that what you believe is correct, and anyone who disagrees is a fool.
I guess it works both ways.


And since the ToE is not foolishness, anyone who refuses to educate themselves about it and claims that evolution is an fraud is a fool. Glad we can agree.

Ah. You say you are not angry, but.... I don't believe you. I would like to, but I have seen too many Atheist react to someone opposing their most loved ideology, and... if they are not angry, then I think we should hide under a rock, if they truly become angry... Actually, I don't think a rock would save us. Suicide might be better.

Then CLEARLY what you believe does not comport with reality, because when confronted with ignorant fools I do NOT feel anger. It's actually more a mixture of amusement and sadness... but anger... not in the least. Something else that is ignorant foolishness is assuming that just because you've met SOME angry atheists that you ignorantly assume that ALL atheists are angry.

And when you automatically start assuming that you can tell I'm ANGRY after a few short posts is what leads me to believe that you're just WAITING to find reason to feel insulted. Gosh... maybe you should get handle on YOUR anger issues, huh?
 

Nimos

Well-Known Member
I decided it would be pointless presenting the other theory to the one you prefer, after watching the video I linked above. I realize what the speaker presented, makes sense... and since it is already clear that despite knowing that the idea you so strongly believe to be true, has not been demonstrated to be true, you still hold on to that view... nothing I say will change that, and so, I think we will still continue to hold our views afterwards... which would not be beneficial to anyone, at this point.
So. Perhaps we may meet some other time, on a more progressive matter.
That is fair enough. Im fairly open for good evidence. But most of the creationist stuff, I have seen goes something like this.

1. Present some sort of biological thing that seems complex or mysteries.
2. Argue how evolution can't explain it.
3. Conclude that God/Designer exists, because if evolution can't explain it. Logically it must follow that a designer did it.

At best this to me purely suggest that there might be some things evolution can't explain at the moment, if its the case that those making the argument actually present the correct facts. Which is unfortunately not always the case. Which is why I wanted to see actual evidence for creationism and not points against evolution.
 

nPeace

Veteran Member
Allow me to inform you further. Everyone believes in evolution. We see it everyday.
The Darwinian idea, and worldview, however, is another story.
It's an idea that even scientist say is impossible... but you, among others believe it.
Now who in their right mind, would feel threatened by an impossibility? No one. Only someone who has lost their mind would... I think.


Don't get out much, do you? Apparently you don't read many of the posts on this site, either. There re PLENTY of people who claim that evolution is an elaborate conspiracy invented by Satanists who hate God.
So. I believe the idea - not the observable facts - is Satanic, but that doesn't mean I feel threatened by the notion.
I believe gay marriage promotes a Satanic ideology, but I don't feel threatened by it.
ISIS is not of God, clearly, Nor much of what this world promotes - like certain movies, and pornography, but I don't feel threatened by them.
All are to me, just part of the world, ruled by Satan the Devil, according to Revelation 12.
Do I feel threatened by them? No.
Jesus said... Have no fear. He conquered the world, and his followers will too.

It depends on what the person is being educated in. If someone is being educated in foolishness, surely, they are not foolish for rejecting it. The other person may believe the person is ignorant, whereas they are not, and that's really the part I was looking at.

Obviously, you think that what you believe is correct, and anyone who disagrees is a fool.
I guess it works both ways.


And since the ToE is not foolishness, anyone who refuses to educate themselves about it and claims that evolution is an fraud is a fool. Glad we can agree.
The idea that one common ancestor produced all the variety of life forms is absurd to people who are educated about the very theory - scientists included.
Some say it cannot work.
You are suggesting that people let their imagination run wild. Extrapolation, is what it is called.
Why do you assume people are not educated about something they don't believe... other than, 'because you believe it'?

Ah. You say you are not angry, but.... I don't believe you. I would like to, but I have seen too many Atheist react to someone opposing their most loved ideology, and... if they are not angry, then I think we should hide under a rock, if they truly become angry... Actually, I don't think a rock would save us. Suicide might be better.

Then CLEARLY what you believe does not comport with reality, because when confronted with ignorant fools I do NOT feel anger. It's actually more a mixture of amusement and sadness... but anger... not in the least. Something else that is ignorant foolishness is assuming that just because you've met SOME angry atheists that you ignorantly assume that ALL atheists are angry.

And when you automatically start assuming that you can tell I'm ANGRY after a few short posts is what leads me to believe that you're just WAITING to find reason to feel insulted. Gosh... maybe you should get handle on YOUR anger issues, huh?
Okay. You are not angry.
grimacing-emoticon-showing-bared-teeth-260nw-398172898.jpg
 

nPeace

Veteran Member
That is fair enough. Im fairly open for good evidence. But most of the creationist stuff, I have seen goes something like this.

1. Present some sort of biological thing that seems complex or mysteries.
2. Argue how evolution can't explain it.
3. Conclude that God/Designer exists, because if evolution can't explain it. Logically it must follow that a designer did it.

At best this to me purely suggest that there might be some things evolution can't explain at the moment, if its the case that those making the argument actually present the correct facts. Which is unfortunately not always the case. Which is why I wanted to see actual evidence for creationism and not points against evolution.
I hear that script all the time, but no Creationist I know, follows an argument like that, so I figure it's a misguided Atheist conclusion.
You seem to be missing one thing - the Bible came before modern science, and much of what they are only now discovering, is, or was not new.
You know why the term "axis of evil" is used, don't you... and that's only one example of things scientists have discovered, which don't fit the worldview of some. The creation, or beginning of the universe is another.
...and on and on.
 

nPeace

Veteran Member
It seems as though public schools are omitting much now. Today's high school graduate is almost totally ignorant of history.

If history can be eliminated, I don't see why evolution can't be dropped as well.
...considering that it has not even been demonstrated to be true.
 

QuestioningMind

Well-Known Member
So. I believe the idea - not the observable facts - is Satanic, but that doesn't mean I feel threatened by the notion.
I believe gay marriage promotes a Satanic ideology, but I don't feel threatened by it.
ISIS is not of God, clearly, Nor much of what this world promotes - like certain movies, and pornography, but I don't feel threatened by them.
All are to me, just part of the world, ruled by Satan the Devil, according to Revelation 12.
Do I feel threatened by them? No.
Jesus said... Have no fear. He conquered the world, and his followers will too.


The idea that one common ancestor produced all the variety of life forms is absurd to people who are educated about the very theory - scientists included.
Some say it cannot work.
You are suggesting that people let their imagination run wild. Extrapolation, is what it is called.
Why do you assume people are not educated about something they don't believe... other than, 'because you believe it'?


Okay. You are not angry.
grimacing-emoticon-showing-bared-teeth-260nw-398172898.jpg


So. I believe the idea - not the observable facts - is Satanic


Then sadly I'd have to conclude that you are an ignorant fool. But please understand, I an NOT concluding so ANGRILY. It is with sadness and a bit of amusement.

The idea that one common ancestor produced all the variety of life forms is absurd to people who are educated about the very theory - scientists included.
Some say it cannot work.
You are suggesting that people let their imagination run wild. Extrapolation, is what it is called.
Why do you assume people are not educated about something they don't believe... other than, 'because you believe it'?


I'm sure it sounds absurd to people ignorant of the genome project and what the DNA evidence indicates, but that doesn't change the reality of what the evidence reveals. And yes, sadly even people who are scientists can be ignorant fools.

Okay. You are not angry.
grimacing-emoticon-showing-bared-teeth-260nw-398172898.jpg


Gosh, there you go again, listening with an expectation of being insulted. Perhaps its an indication that you're deflecting all of your suppressed anger at me.
 

halbhh

The wonder and awe of "all things".
@halbhh I just looked at this video, which seems to be making the point you were. Tell me if that is the case. The link starts from the point.
I like the illustration, of the man who believed he was dead. What a powerful illustration!

@Nimos I decided it would be pointless presenting the other theory to the one you prefer, after watching the video I linked above. I realize what the speaker presented, makes sense... and since it is already clear that despite knowing that the idea you so strongly believe to be true, has not been demonstrated to be true, you still hold on to that view... nothing I say will change that, and so, I think we will still continue to hold our views afterwards... which would not be beneficial to anyone, at this point.
So. Perhaps we may meet some other time, on a more progressive matter.
Good example of how people do indeed interpret information to fit their preferred view. It's work to do otherwise, but that's 'science', that work (in ideal form).

In ideal (and it's common too), science tests hypotheses that are testable, or "falsifiable" as Karl Popper put it. A hypothesis is of scientific usefulness only if it is testable, he'd say (I'm paraphrasing). Makes predictions that themselves can be tested, to see if they are correct or incorrect.

Most agree with Popper on this.
 

nPeace

Veteran Member
So. I believe the idea - not the observable facts - is Satanic

Then sadly I'd have to conclude that you are an ignorant fool. But please understand, I an NOT concluding so ANGRILY. It is with sadness and a bit of amusement.

The idea that one common ancestor produced all the variety of life forms is absurd to people who are educated about the very theory - scientists included.
Some say it cannot work.
You are suggesting that people let their imagination run wild. Extrapolation, is what it is called.
Why do you assume people are not educated about something they don't believe... other than, 'because you believe it'?


I'm sure it sounds absurd to people ignorant of the genome project and what the DNA evidence indicates, but that doesn't change the reality of what the evidence reveals. And yes, sadly even people who are scientists can be ignorant fools.
Of course you mean, what the evidence is interpreted to mean.

Okay. You are not angry.
grimacing-emoticon-showing-bared-teeth-260nw-398172898.jpg


Gosh, there you go again, listening with an expectation of being insulted. Perhaps its an indication that you're deflecting all of your suppressed anger at me.
What? This seems like some kind of obsession. Reminds me of those who can only repeat "religious agenda" like almost every post.

Oh... by the way, I think you misinterpreted the emoji. It's not anger. :)
 

QuestioningMind

Well-Known Member
Of course you mean, what the evidence is interpreted to mean.


What? This seems like some kind of obsession. Reminds me of those who can only repeat "religious agenda" like almost every post.

Oh... by the way, I think you misinterpreted the emoji. It's not anger. :)

Of course you mean, what the evidence is interpreted to mean.

Yes, as interpreted by the EXPERTS. So after studying the science involved how exactly have YOU interpreted the data? Care to point out where the experts got it wrong?

What? This seems like some kind of obsession. Reminds me of those who can only repeat "religious agenda" like almost every post.

OR perhaps like someone obsessed with the notion that the person they're talking to is ANGRY, when there's absolutely ZERO evidence of such.

Oh... by the way, I think you misinterpreted the emoji. It's not anger.

Then you think wrong. I interpreted it to mean absolute terror at the notion that I'm actually not angry. Rather sad and pathetic that you seem to automatically assume that just because someone doesn't agree with you that they must somehow be angry. Again, I have to wonder if it's all about projecting all of the suppressed anger that you apparently have.
 

exchemist

Veteran Member
Blue gods aside, what difference does it make if one believes Genesis 1 is literal, or a metaphor ?
The difference is that one way you can be a Christian and embrace the wonders of creation revealed by science, while the other way you cannot.

And we do live in a world in which knowledge of science is increasingly important.
 

Nimos

Well-Known Member
I hear that script all the time, but no Creationist I know, follows an argument like that, so I figure it's a misguided Atheist conclusion.
You seem to be missing one thing - the Bible came before modern science, and much of what they are only now discovering, is, or was not new.
You know why the term "axis of evil" is used, don't you... and that's only one example of things scientists have discovered, which don't fit the worldview of some. The creation, or beginning of the universe is another.
...and on and on.
But it shouldn't matter whether the bible was written before or after, either way it wont change the facts, so im not really sure I follow your point on that?

Im not sure what you mean with the axis of evil and how that is interesting?
 

nPeace

Veteran Member
Of course you mean, what the evidence is interpreted to mean.

Yes, as interpreted by the EXPERTS. So after studying the science involved how exactly have YOU interpreted the data? Care to point out where the experts got it wrong?
Point out where they got it wrong?
I said nothing about right or wrong. All I said was, in other words, they interpret the evidence to mean X. The evidence didn't say anything.
reification.jpg


Since it appears, you seem to think that the expert opinion, or interpretation must definitely be right, I'll allow the experts to point out to you, where they do get it wrong.

On universal common ancestry - sequence similarity and phylogenetic structure
Universal common ancestry: The qualitative evidence and need for a formal test

When biologists attempt to reconstruct the phylogenetic relationships that link a set of species, they usually assume that the taxa under study are genealogically related. Whether one uses cladistic parsimony, distance measures, or maximum likelihood methods, the typical question is which tree is the best one, not whether there is a tree in the first place.
This is the question I set out to answer: Is there a universal tree — or, more broadly, a universal pattern of genetic relatedness — in the first place?

Several researchers have recently questioned the nature and status of the theory of UCA or have emphasized the difficulties in testing a theory of such broad scope. For example, Ford Doolittle has disputed whether objective evidence for UCA, as described by a universal tree, is possible even in principle:

Indeed, one is hard pressed to find some theory-free body of evidence that such a single universal pattern relating all life forms exists independently of our habit of thinking that it should.
This sentiment was echoed also by K&W, who concluded that a "formal demonstration of UCA … remains elusive and might not be feasible in principle.". Such criticisms of UCA point to a need for a formal test, similar to the formal tests of fundamental physical theories like general relativity and quantum mechanics.

Employing Phylogenomics to Resolve the Relationships among Cnidarians, Ctenophores, Sponges, Placozoans, and Bilaterians
Introduction
Phylogeny is the cornerstone of comparative biology, and interpretations of phenotypic evolution hinge on accurate hypotheses of organismal relationships (Felsenstein 1985). Transcriptomic and genomic sequences offer a nearly overwhelming source of information for inferring relationships, with some studies employing hundreds of genes. Despite great potential, phylogenomics has thus far failed to confidently resolve relationships of many animal groups (Dunn et al. 2014). Inferring relationships among major metazoan lineages (i.e., Bilateria, Ctenophora, Cnidaria, Placozoa, and Porifera) has been particularly difficult, with numerous recent studies recovering conflicting phylogenetic topologies

In recent years, systematists have faced many theoretical and methodological challenges associated with analyzing high-throughput sequencing data for phylogenetic inference, and a major bottleneck for modern phylogenetic studies is the analysis of data, rather than the generation of sequences. Modern phylogenomics requires a new set of expertise and methodologies compared with phylogenetic studies with only one or a few genes.

Rethinking phylogenetic comparative methods
...unresolved challenge permeates not just tests for discrete character correlations, but nearly every method of finding associations in comparative methods

On universal common ancestry, sequence similarity, and phylogenetic structure: the sins of P-values and the virtues of Bayesian evidence
Sequence similarity and homology are not equivalent
One common thread among the various arguments for common ancestry is the inference from certain biological similarities to homology. However, with apologies to Fisher, similarity is not homology. It is widely assumed that strong sequence similarity indicates genetic kinship. Nonetheless, as I and many others have argued , sequence similarity is strictly an empirical observation; homology, on the other hand, is a hypothesis intended to explain the similarity.
Common ancestry is only one possible mechanism that results in similarity between sequences.

Colin Patterson made a similar argument, explicitly pointing out that statistically significant sequence similarity does not necessarily force the conclusion of homology:

… given that homologies are hypothetical, how do we test them? How do we decide that an observed similarity is a valid inference of common ancestry? If similarity must be discriminated from homology, its assessment (statistically significant or not, for example) is not necessarily synonymous with testing a hypothesis of homology.
How, then, would we know if highly similar biological sequences had independent origins or not? In all but the most trivial cases we do not have direct, independent evidence for homology — rather, we conventionally infer the answer based on some qualitative argument, often involving sequence similarity as a premise.


What? This seems like some kind of obsession. Reminds me of those who can only repeat "religious agenda" like almost every post.

OR perhaps like someone obsessed with the notion that the person they're talking to is ANGRY, when there's absolutely ZERO evidence of such.

Oh... by the way, I think you misinterpreted the emoji. It's not anger.

Then you think wrong. I interpreted it to mean absolute terror at the notion that I'm actually not angry. Rather sad and pathetic that you seem to automatically assume that just because someone doesn't agree with you that they must somehow be angry. Again, I have to wonder if it's all about projecting all of the suppressed anger that you apparently have.
Okay. You are not angry.
grimacing-emoticon-showing-bared-teeth-260nw-398172898.jpg
 

nPeace

Veteran Member
But it shouldn't matter whether the bible was written before or after, either way it wont change the facts, so im not really sure I follow your point on that?

Im not sure what you mean with the axis of evil and how that is interesting?
Change the facts? What facts?
 

Nimos

Well-Known Member
Change the facts? What facts?
I mean whether the scientific method had been adopted before the bible was written or not, makes no different. It doesn't change the facts of how things are. Meaning if its a fact that you need a Star for there to be light, then that is a fact. And it doesn't matter if the bible say that there was light before the Sun was made. The fact are still the same.
 

gnostic

The Lost One
It looks to me like from the time of Darwin, sometimes people have tried to use evolution theories to discredit Christianity or some Christian beliefs.
It was the other way around, Jim.

And IT WASN’T ALL CHRISTIANS who rejected Darwin’s Natural Selection.

Darwin have been working upon his return from his voyage on HMS Beagle (1831-36), trying to explain biodiversity that have spread through regions over times (times as in “generations”, not “ years”), and the changes in the environments (eg terrains, climates, availability/scarcity of food) were factors and triggers for the evolutionary mechanism of Natural Selection (On Origin Of Species, 1859).

And in all that time (1831 to 1859), Darwin himself was a Christian. It wasn’t until late 1860s or early 70s that he became more agnostic, like his contemporary and friend, Thomas Henry Huxley. (Note that it was Huxley himself who coined the term Agnosticism).

His works were intended to explain the phenomena of variation of species through Selection, from voyage to his publication of his hypothesis. They were never intended to offended or to attack the Christianity/churches, the Bible or God.

But offended, it did, especially some of more traditionalists/orthodox Christians, like Samuel Wilberforce, the bishop of Oxford, and attacked Darwin’s theory.

But you need to keep in mind, Jim, that that there were more Christians than atheists at that time, and On Origin didn’t offend that many Christians at the universities, including 7 leading clergymen of Anglican church in Wilberforce’s time, who were more liberal and freethinking, and some of them were even teachers at the (Oxford & Cambridge) universities, eg Baden Powell and Frederick Temple.

These 7 clergymen have each independently wrote essays that were published collectively in Essays And Reviews (1860), and each one, including layman, Charles Wycliffe Goodwin, understood and accepted Darwin’s theory.

When Wilberforce read or heard of articles of Essays And Reviews, he attacked the authors.

One of the essays written by Frederick Temple, was later appointed the Archbishop of Canterbury in the 1890s. If Darwin's On Origin (1859) were really bad for Christianity, then why did Temple defend it and even accept it?

Charles Darwin's On Origin Of Species and more specifically Natural Selection weren't attack on Christianity, and given that a number of Christians have accepted it, it wasn't a clash between atheists and theists.

So, Jim, you are making too big a deal about evolution attacking Christianity in the OP.
 

Jim

Nets of Wonder
So, Jim, you are making too big a deal about evolution attacking Christianity in the OP.
What I think now is that there wasn’t much controversy opposing Darwinism and Christianity in the first fifty years after The Origin of Species was first published, and I might have been mistaken about the controversy starting with evolution being taught in public schools. It might have started with the publication of The Fundamentals.

I still think that from the time that The Origin of Species was published, there have always been some people who tried to use Darwinism to discredit Christianity and Christian beliefs, but I agree that there have also been some people during that time who tried to use some Christian beliefs to discredit Darwinism.
 

It Aint Necessarily So

Veteran Member
Premium Member
No one feels threatened by the notion of evolution.

Except creationists, which is why they try to attack the theory at every turn.

Everyone believes in evolution. We see it everyday.

Except creationists, which is why they try to attack the theory at every turn.

The Darwinian idea, and worldview, however, is another story.
It's an idea that even scientist say is impossible... but you, among others believe it.

It's creationists calling it impossible. The consensus of the scientific community is that the theory of biological evolution is correct, and is considered settled science in the main. Your comment is you opposing evolution, undoubtedly because it threatens creationist beliefs - something you say never happens.

Now who in their right mind, would feel threatened by an impossibility? No one.

You feel threatened by the theory, which is why you spread untruths about it.

You say you are not angry, but.... I don't believe you. I would like to, but I have seen too many Atheist react to someone opposing their most loved ideology, and... if they are not angry, then I think we should hide under a rock, if they truly become angry

Can you demonstrate some of this alleged anger, say from this thread? Do you consider this response angry?

So. I believe the idea - not the observable facts - is Satanic

The idea derives from the interpretation.This is you once again on the attack, calling the science the most immoral thing you know to call it - satanic.

The idea that one common ancestor produced all the variety of life forms is absurd to people who are educated about the very theory - scientists included.

And here you go again on the attack spreading falsehoods. The idea of common ancestry for all life on earth is considered probably true (one must always be open to the possibility that an as-yet undiscovered parallel tree of life exists somewhere on earth with a different biochemistry). The idea is provisionally accepted by virtually everybody except science deniers, who are essentially all creationists.

Why do you assume people are not educated about something they don't believe... other than, 'because you believe it'?

We see how they write about the science. Look at all of the mistakes you have made here.

I hear that script all the time, but no Creationist I know, follows an argument like that, so I figure it's a misguided Atheist conclusion.

I see arguments from ignorance (not an insult, but a synonym for unknowing) regularly on these pages

the Bible came before modern science, and much of what they are only now discovering, is, or was not new.

Almost no modern science appears in the Bible, and the little bit that it got right such as that the universe had a beginning, we don't believe because the Bible says so and wouldn't believe now without scientific confirmation.

When Christians make these claims about the Bible being prescient, they're often along the lines of claiming that "Canst thou send lightnings, that they may go, and say unto thee, Here we are?" - Job 38:35 anticipated modern telecommunications, using electricity to communicate. Pretty weak.

Or that "He stretcheth out the north over the empty place, and hangeth the earth upon nothing" - Job 26:7 anticipates modern astronomy. Also pretty weak. Where's the mention of the earth rotating on its axis while orbiting the sun? Why just the north?

Of course, to make such claims about the Bible foreshadowing modern science, you need to ignore all of the errors, such as that the Bible teaches that earth is the center of the universe, that the stars are specks in the sky embedded in a dome the sky which is solid and serves as floor of Jehovah, and that the sun journeys about a flat earth with edges and four corners.

Incidentally, the fallacy here is the Texas sharpshooter fallacy, which, according to Wiki, is "an informal fallacy which is committed when differences in data are ignored, but similarities are stressed." Compare the claims in the Bible with the claims from science, and wherever a match or near-match is found, claim that that is significant while disregarding all of the misses.

Modern humans could have put impressive science into those scriptures if they had the ability to communicate with the past and the Bible authors, so why can't a god be at least as helpful and impressive. Why doesn't the Bible teach that there are microscopically small living things that cause disease, give instructions for building a microscopeto, instruct to wash hands before delivering babies, or to go to the Penicillium fungus for substances that can combat these invisible killers? Much more impressive than "lightnings" saying here we are.

The absence of these things tells us that no advanced intelligence was involved in writing scripture.
 
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