Why does evolution vs creation matter to you?

My interest in this topic might be because one of my spiritual teachers might have said that that the ancestors of humans have always been human, and I was trying to see how that might be true. I know that on one side some people are concerned about evolution theory being used in public schools to discredit their beliefs, and on the other side some people are concerned about people trying to use public education to promote or defend religious beliefs.

Some people might be trying to defend science against attacks from religious factions, but science is being attacked on many fronts including by people who think they’re defending it. If you’re defending science, why have you chosen this particular battle ground?

Some people might be trying to defend faith in God against attacks from anti-faith factions, but faith in God is being attacked on many fronts, including by people who think they’re defending it. If you’re defending faith in God, why have you chosen this particular battle ground?

I think in a proper understanding of science and religion, the two might be 100% compatible.

Though, I don't think anyone has ever really achieved that proper, 100% understanding. We can just aim for it.

Science is what keeps me alive and (relative) free. Anti-Vaxers threaten my health by compromising heard immuniti. YEC and other anti science people threaten trust in science and ultimately in facts. Democracy rests a good part on an informed constituency. When people stop believing in facts they are no longer informed and democracy is in jeopardy.

Jim said:

My interest in this topic might be because one of my spiritual teachers might have said that that the ancestors of humans have always been human, and I was trying to see how that might be true. I know that on one side some people are concerned about evolution theory being used in public schools to discredit their beliefs,

Click to expand...

Sort of interesting, when you think of it, that there are people afraid of biological findings.

and on the other side some people are concerned about people trying to use public education to promote or defend religious beliefs.

Click to expand...

... at the expense of freedom of belief, you mean? Yes, that is very much a concern. The government can't fairly be anything but secular.

Some people might be trying to defend science against attacks from religious factions, but science is being attacked on many fronts including by people who think they’re defending it. If you’re defending science, why have you chosen this particular battle ground?

Click to expand...

Science as such is not much of a concern. The situation of science education, funding, and political structures is. The viability of our communities when it comes to self-sustainance and awareness of scientific knowledge is actually rather curious.

In that respect, Creationism has a lot in common with the anti-vaccine movement. Both encourage people to be apart and even inimical to the very knowledge and skills that they came to rely on for their lifestyles, and they do not even encourage the same people to develop the means to sustain their ultimately alternate means of life. There are not too many Creationists or Anti-Vaxxers renouncing their right to vote and deciding to become fishers, farmers or hunter-gatherers, but by rights they would need to pursue that in order to be coherent.

Creationists just do not tend to be Amish expecting to grown their own means of life. But logically, they should aim to do that - and frankly, even then they would be benefitting from the findings of the very people and institutions that they so fiercely aim to discredit out of fear of pride.

Some people might be trying to defend faith in God against attacks from anti-faith factions, but faith in God is being attacked on many fronts, including by people who think they’re defending it. If you’re defending faith in God, why have you chosen this particular battle ground?

Click to expand...

You are getting it all wrong, presenting it as some form of defense of faith.

There is no attack on faith as such. There is exposition of some of the worst vices that are mistaken for faith.

One of those is a particularly nasty form of arrogance, one that takes the guise of reverence for God.

Also, I am not really a big fan of "lying for God". To say the least. It is those kinds of movements that corrupt and discredit the reputation of religion.

My brain refuses to believe people believe in Biblical Creation do exist...
Really...I am not kidding...

Maybe because I was indoctrinated to believe in Evolution almost as a religion....having had Biology teachers who would giggle at Adam and Eve...

Heyo said:

Science is what keeps me alive and (relative) free. Anti-Vaxers threaten my health by compromising heard immuniti. YEC and other anti science people threaten trust in science and ultimately in facts. Democracy rests a good part on an informed constituency. When people stop believing in facts they are no longer informed and democracy is in jeopardy.

Click to expand...

You are from Germany...you can confirm in Europe there has never been such a debate...or at least I have never heard of YEC or any Creationism...

Estro Felino said:

You are from Germany...you can confirm in Europe there has never been such a debate...or at least I have never heard of YEC or any Creationism...

Click to expand...

Yep. I met maybe a dozen YEC in person. But I have also seen that some stupid stuff that originated in the US influenced people in Europe.

Jim said:

My interest in this topic might be because one of my spiritual teachers might have said that that the ancestors of humans have always been human, and I was trying to see how that might be true. I know that on one side some people are concerned about evolution theory being used in public schools to discredit their beliefs, and on the other side some people are concerned about people trying to use public education to promote or defend religious beliefs.

Some people might be trying to defend science against attacks from religious factions, but science is being attacked on many fronts including by people who think they’re defending it. If you’re defending science, why have you chosen this particular battle ground?

Some people might be trying to defend faith in God against attacks from anti-faith factions, but faith in God is being attacked on many fronts, including by people who think they’re defending it. If you’re defending faith in God, why have you chosen this particular battle ground?

Click to expand...

I think people waste entirely too much time arguing about this.

Science requires no belief. Science is an organized body of knowledge based on observation, measure, and experimentation. It is tested and modified based on new information. Science does not need to be defended.

If a person wishes to believe in something other than science, I would hope that belief is based on experience rather than blind faith, but in either way, it doesn't effect me, so I see no point in convincing someone otherwise.

Public education should be based on knowledge gained through observation and experience, not blind faith. If you have a problem with this, stop whining and take some responsibility for your child's education. If you want your children to believe in something not taught in public schools, then put them in a parochial school. Or here's a thought...spend some quality time with your kid teaching them what you want them to know instead of wasting it whining to me about how my tax dollars should be spend on public education.

My main concern is that people in science classes be taught the science. And the creationism view simply is not science.

After that, I have a general concern about the amount of superstition, illogic, ignorance, and belief in pseudoscience that is present in this society. Creationism is only one small aspect of that.

Polymath257 said:

My main concern is that people in science classes be taught the science. And the creationism view simply is not science.

Click to expand...

On another topic, what you said there is an example of where I would not object to using the word “science.”

Jim said:

My interest in this topic might be because one of my spiritual teachers might have said that that the ancestors of humans have always been human, and I was trying to see how that might be true. I know that on one side some people are concerned about evolution theory being used in public schools to discredit their beliefs, and on the other side some people are concerned about people trying to use public education to promote or defend religious beliefs.

Some people might be trying to defend science against attacks from religious factions, but science is being attacked on many fronts including by people who think they’re defending it. If you’re defending science, why have you chosen this particular battle ground?

Some people might be trying to defend faith in God against attacks from anti-faith factions, but faith in God is being attacked on many fronts, including by people who think they’re defending it. If you’re defending faith in God, why have you chosen this particular battle ground?

Click to expand...

This has long struck me as a weird raison d'etre for theists. Even if evolution was shown to be complete bunk tomorrow, that would do exactly nothing to demonstrate the existence of any God or the truth of any theistic religion.

Polymath257 said:

...I have a general concern about the amount of superstition, illogic, ignorance, and belief in pseudoscience that is present in this society. Creationism is only one small aspect of that.

Click to expand...

Why? Aside from the obvious challenges these present in your chosen career, how do the beliefs of other impact you personally?

SalixIncendium said:

Why? Aside from the obvious challenges these present in your chosen career, how do the beliefs of other impact you personally?

Click to expand...

Well, I live in a representative democracy and would like to continue to do so. One of the basic requirements for such is an educated populace.

Polymath257 said:

Well, I live in a representative democracy and would like to continue to do so. One of the basic requirements for such is an educated populace.

Click to expand...

There will always be a blend of educated, logical, rational thinkers and superstitious, ignorant, pseudoscience believers in society. I think it's less about convincing someone of something they likely won't (either by choice or by conditioning) believe anyway than it is about balance.

I think everyone is subject to the perceptions in their own reality and in a different place educationally and spiritually, and I think it's arrogant for an individual or group to coerce others to see things through one's own perceptive, especially if the outcome has no bearing on the individual or group. And yes, it goes both ways.

I think it matters, because there's been many mistakes made in both medicine and agriculture based on a lack of, or misunderstanding of evolution. For humanity to survive, we have to understand how nature works and how we can work with it, not against it. Creationism isn't helping us. It's holding us back.

Ouroboros said:

I think it matters, because there's been many mistakes made in both medicine and agriculture based on a lack of, or misunderstanding of evolution. For humanity to survive, we have to understand how nature works and how we can work with it, not against it. Creationism isn't helping us. It's holding us back.

Click to expand...

I think we're missing the point here.

Do we really think that if there is a subset of creationists in society (as there has been for millennia), will ultimately override those that accept the science of evolution.

The trend is actually heading in the other direction:



Evolution, Creationism, Intelligent Design

Jim said:

My interest in this topic might be because one of my spiritual teachers might have said that that the ancestors of humans have always been human, and I was trying to see how that might be true. I know that on one side some people are concerned about evolution theory being used in public schools to discredit their beliefs, and on the other side some people are concerned about people trying to use public education to promote or defend religious beliefs.

Some people might be trying to defend science against attacks from religious factions, but science is being attacked on many fronts including by people who think they’re defending it. If you’re defending science, why have you chosen this particular battle ground?

Some people might be trying to defend faith in God against attacks from anti-faith factions, but faith in God is being attacked on many fronts, including by people who think they’re defending it. If you’re defending faith in God, why have you chosen this particular battle ground?

Click to expand...

I fight this battle partly in order to educate people in science and also to defend the place of religion in society. If religion becomes associated with silly ideas it will be treated with contempt.

Jim said:

My interest in this topic might be because one of my spiritual teachers might have said that that the ancestors of humans have always been human, and I was trying to see how that might be true. I know that on one side some people are concerned about evolution theory being used in public schools to discredit their beliefs, and on the other side some people are concerned about people trying to use public education to promote or defend religious beliefs.

Some people might be trying to defend science against attacks from religious factions, but science is being attacked on many fronts including by people who think they’re defending it. If you’re defending science, why have you chosen this particular battle ground?

Some people might be trying to defend faith in God against attacks from anti-faith factions, but faith in God is being attacked on many fronts, including by people who think they’re defending it. If you’re defending faith in God, why have you chosen this particular battle ground?

Click to expand...

Actually, it doesn't matter to me. I think that it does matter to some folks due to that mental state called attachment. Attachment is that clingy stuff called odic force which is rather difficult to get rid of, especially when it isn't visible, or noticed. The personal pride/ego thing simply can't detach itself from what it holds dearly, and emotion compounds the strength of it.

Jim said:

My interest in this topic might be because one of my spiritual teachers might have said that that the ancestors of humans have always been human, and I was trying to see how that might be true. I know that on one side some people are concerned about evolution theory being used in public schools to discredit their beliefs, and on the other side some people are concerned about people trying to use public education to promote or defend religious beliefs.

Some people might be trying to defend science against attacks from religious factions, but science is being attacked on many fronts including by people who think they’re defending it. If you’re defending science, why have you chosen this particular battle ground?

Some people might be trying to defend faith in God against attacks from anti-faith factions, but faith in God is being attacked on many fronts, including by people who think they’re defending it. If you’re defending faith in God, why have you chosen this particular battle ground?

Click to expand...

I have chosen nothing. If i catch people saying something that is scientifically wrong, I try to correct them. Though last few months has been too busy to do that much.

Why does evolution vs creation matter to you?

I have no patience with deliberate ignorance