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Alone

Banned by request
It means different things to different people, and sometimes even to the same person in different contexts. Besides that, what it actually means to a person in practice might be very different from what they say it means to them. The best solution I’ve found is not to use the word at all, and spell out each time whatever if is that you want to say or ask about. Can you give some examples of where this question has come up for you in conversations? For example, are you wondering whether or not to call yourself or someone else a “Christian”?
Well for the sake of conversation and this question I would say that I would wonder whether or not to call myself a Christian, however definitions from books describe it as christ-like, and I am nowhere close, so that kind of spells disaster for me so to speak. I'm not sure I'm ever going to understand this whole God concept in its full entirety apparently? Guess the whole idea, is security in the afterlife which is another concept, I'm struggling with oh, wow seems like I'm struggling with a lot of things, before I read the Bible I didn't really think a whole lot about it, now it consumes every fabric of my being especially upon the notion that I can't prove anything, again other than self-awareness, if that's even a logical understanding or not? Oh boy what am I going to do with myself?
 

TransmutingSoul

Veteran Member
Premium Member
Not necessarily the most comforting thing for me to say that I agree!

In my journey I have found no matter what, there is always someone doing it much harder, and I have found that many of those have a very happy and healthy view of life.

All the best, regards Tony
 
Well for the sake of conversation and this question I would say that I would wonder whether or not to call myself a Christian, however definitions from books describe it as christ-like, and I am nowhere close, so that kind of spells disaster for me so to speak. I'm not sure I'm ever going to understand this whole God concept in its full entirety apparently? Guess the whole idea, is security in the afterlife which is another concept, I'm struggling with oh, wow seems like I'm struggling with a lot of things, before I read the Bible I didn't really think a whole lot about it, now it consumes every fabric of my being especially upon the notion that I can't prove anything, again other than self-awareness, if that's even a logical understanding or not? Oh boy what am I going to do with myself?
Don't beat yourself up over it Alone. These sorts of things take time and lots of introspection, it's okay to be lost and uncertain. You're doing fine.
 

dybmh

דניאל יוסף בן מאיר הירש
Not necessarily the most comforting thing for me to say that I agree!
Comfort comes from knowing you are not actually alone in this struggle. A lot of us are feeling it.

And That ^^ is why people love The Blues.
 

LuisDantas

Aura of atheification
Premium Member
So....... What would be your opinion on someone who is trying to make Christianity and individual aspect rather than a community aspect? If there is such a thing.
There is such a thing. Many such things, really. It is all over the place.

For some people it will be all about the Bible, for others it will be about trusting the existence of God, or the promise of an afterlife, or the Sermon of the Mount.

It is very hard to find a common thread there. In practice, you will either accept a lot of ambiguity or put some effort into describing the specific takes on Christianity.
 

dfnj

Well-Known Member
What is the difference between a Christian and a non-Christian?

Christians are obsessed with sin and judging other people. Where as non-Christians have their own different set of obsessions.
 

Alone

Banned by request
Christians are obsessed with sin and judging other people. Where as non-Christians have their own different set of obsessions.
Okay that is very uninspiring, considering the Bible states that Christians are not supposed to be judgemental, therefore we might actually be getting somewhere now, does this mean that people who are judgemental are not Christians?
 

dfnj

Well-Known Member
Okay that is very uninspiring, considering the Bible states that Christians are not supposed to be judgemental, therefore we might actually be getting somewhere now, does this mean that people who are judgemental are not Christians?

Every devout Christian I met judge each other and non-Christians hanging on every word and action.
 

Alone

Banned by request
Every devout Christian I met judge each other and non-Christians hanging on every word and action.
According to my understanding of what I have read, Christians are only supposed to judge those that are within their fellowship, those who are outside of that fellowship will be judged by God not people. Therefore if a person does not go to church and is judged by a person that does go to church that is somewhat contradictory to biblical teachings? Is it not?
 

Deeje

Avid Bible Student
Premium Member
@Alone.....Have you ever tried throwing out everything you have ever heard, and just starting from the beginning with a clean slate?

Start in Genesis and establish why humans are here? What assignment did God give them?
Then establish what kind of life God purposed for them in the beginning?
Ask what happened for them to lose that life, and be sentenced to this one, with all its trials and tragedies?

What did God do about the situation now that humans faced old age, sickness and death and had the propensity to sin? None of which were in his original plan.

Who was Jesus and why did he have to come to earth as a human? What was his mission?
In what sense is he a savior or a redeemer? Who is he saving, and what is he saving them from?

What did Jesus command his disciples to do, and why?

What will the final outcome be? What happens to the 'righteous' and what happens to the 'wicked'?
What is the purpose of reward and punishment, so obvious in the laws of God?

Answer those questions and you will have a fairly good handle on what it means to be a Christian.

Yell if you need help....:) All the answers are in the Bible.
 

Alone

Banned by request
@Alone.....Have you ever tried throwing out everything you have ever heard, and just starting from the beginning with a clean slate?

Start in Genesis and establish why humans are here? What assignment did God give them?
Then establish what kind of life God purposed for them in the beginning?
Ask what happened for them to lose that life, and be sentenced to this one, with all its trials and tragedies?

What did God do about the situation now that humans faced old age, sickness and death and had the propensity to sin? None of which were in his original plan.

Who was Jesus and why did he have to come to earth as a human? What was his mission?
In what sense is he a savior or a redeemer? Who is he saving, and what is he saving them from?

What did Jesus command his disciples to do, and why?

What will the final outcome be? What happens to the 'righteous' and what happens to the 'wicked'?
What is the purpose of reward and punishment, so obvious in the laws of God?

Answer those questions and you will have a fairly good handle on what it means to be a Christian.

Yell if you need help....:) All the answers are in the Bible.
I agree with all that you just said, I know the Lord said to turn to him and Believe on him (according to the scriptures), I'm just not sure what that actually means, and as far as getting sin out of my life I've had no success in doing that, which is commanded by both the Lord and God, as to the exact reason why humans were created in the first place I'm not sure the Bible specifically states that, unless you can give me a verse that gives me that answer, which would be helpful? And as far as throwing out everything I've heard all I really heard is say this prayer and you will get the gift of the holy ghost and you'll have salvation, however I've done that 12 times and I don't feel anything, nor has anything changed. so if you could help me with this situation that would be greatly appreciated thanks?
 

Jim

Nets of Wonder
Well for the sake of conversation and this question I would say that I would wonder whether or not to call myself a Christian, however definitions from books describe it as christ-like, and I am nowhere close, so that kind of spells disaster for me so to speak. I'm not sure I'm ever going to understand this whole God concept in its full entirety apparently? Guess the whole idea, is security in the afterlife which is another concept, I'm struggling with oh, wow seems like I'm struggling with a lot of things, before I read the Bible I didn't really think a whole lot about it, now it consumes every fabric of my being especially upon the notion that I can't prove anything, again other than self-awareness, if that's even a logical understanding or not? Oh boy what am I going to do with myself?
Many years ago, for many months, I was often paralyzed for half an hour or more at a time, struggling with some internal conflicts about what to do with my life. I mean literally paralyzed, sitting somewhere not moving at all except possibly to shift my weight or scratch an itch.
 

Jim

Nets of Wonder
I really very much and deeply so want to believe in this Christianity ..,
I'm struggling with oh, wow seems like I'm struggling with a lot of things, before I read the Bible I didn't really think a whole lot about it, now it consumes every fabric of my being especially upon the notion that I can't prove anything, again other than self-awareness, if that's even a logical understanding or not? Oh boy what am I going to do with myself?
I agree with all that you just said, I know the Lord said to turn to him and Believe on him (according to the scriptures), I'm just not sure what that actually means, and as far as getting sin out of my life I've had no success in doing that, which is commanded by both the Lord and God, as to the exact reason why humans were created in the first place I'm not sure the Bible specifically states that, unless you can give me a verse that gives me that answer, which would be helpful? And as far as throwing out everything I've heard all I really heard is say this prayer and you will get the gift of the holy ghost and you'll have salvation, however I've done that 12 times and I don't feel anything, nor has anything changed. so if you could help me with this situation that would be greatly appreciated thanks?
Whenever I start to get disoriented, it helps me to remind myself that I want to help spread love.

From what you’ve said, I’m thinking that maybe you think there might be something in Christianity that would be good for you, but you aren’t finding it. Also, you would like to have a better life, but nothing you’ve tried seems to be working. If so, I have an idea for you to try. Think of spiritual growth and community service as ways of helping to improve the lives of all people everywhere, and helping to improve the world for future generations. Then search in Christianity for ideas, inspiration and strength for those purposes. It might be in reading the gospel stories, in reading a book from a Christian book store, in spending time with some Christians who think that way, or some other way, whatever appeals to you the most.
 

Deeje

Avid Bible Student
Premium Member
I agree with all that you just said, I know the Lord said to turn to him and Believe on him (according to the scriptures), I'm just not sure what that actually means, and as far as getting sin out of my life I've had no success in doing that, which is commanded by both the Lord and God

Turning to the Lord, (which to us is Jehovah) by following the teachings of his son (which Jesus said came from his Father, not himself. John 8:28) is something the heart naturally does when searching for a meaning to life. Most people know there has to be meaning, but they don't really read their Bibles.

In his first letter to Timothy, the apostle Paul said something interesting.....

"...I do now, in order for you to command certain ones not to teach different doctrine, 4 nor to pay attention to false stories and to genealogies. Such things end up in nothing useful but merely give rise to speculations rather than providing anything from God in connection with faith. 5 Really, the objective of this instruction is love out of a clean heart and out of a good conscience and out of faith without hypocrisy. 6 By deviating from these things, some have been turned aside to meaningless talk. 7 They want to be teachers of law, but they do not understand either the things they are saying or the things they insist on so strongly." (1 Timothy 1:3-7)

I find that this well describes many in Christendom, all teaching different ideas...often half baked and not really based on scripture but more on speculation....they have no idea about our purpose here or even why God sent Jesus Christ into the world. Faith is so much more than mere belief.

If I was to ask you if you have ever prayed The Lord's Prayer......most in Christendom have parroted off that prayer all their lives, without understanding what it is that Jesus taught them to pray for. It illustrates that you have to know what you are praying for or else its just meaningless words.

as to the exact reason why humans were created in the first place I'm not sure the Bible specifically states that, unless you can give me a verse that gives me that answer, which would be helpful?

Genesis provides the answer....Genesis 1:26-28....

"Then God said: “Let us make man in our image, according to our likeness, and let them have in subjection the fish of the sea and the flying creatures of the heavens and the domestic animals and all the earth and every creeping animal that is moving on the earth.” 27 And God went on to create the man in his image, in God’s image he created him; male and female he created them. 28 Further, God blessed them, and God said to them: “Be fruitful and become many, fill the earth and subdue it, and have in subjection the fish of the sea and the flying creatures of the heavens and every living creature that is moving on the earth.”

Here God describes what humankind were put here for.....

They were made "in God's image", meaning that they were created with his qualities and attributes. Why did God create humans so differently to all the other creatures here? Do you see what God told them to do? They were to "fill the earth" with their "kind" and to have "in subjection" all the other creatures....IOW they were to oversee the welfare of all other creatures here. God created us to be 'caretakers' endowed with his qualities to act as his representatives here.

And do you see the other command to "subdue" the earth? To 'subdue' means to bring something under control....outside the garden was wild and untamed, meaning that the garden paradise planted by God, was a kind of blueprint for what God wanted the earth to look like....paradise was to be spread all over the world until the whole earth resembled the garden of Eden. So that was God's purpose in putting us here. We are designed for work.....satisfying meaningful work.

If the humans had simply obeyed the command of their God concerning the forbidden fruit (something God claimed as his own exclusive property) their lives would have continued, having no natural cause of death...they would have gone on living indefinitely. God's original purpose for us was to live here forever as permanent caretakers. Giving us free will would mean being able to make decisions if need be, (as God would make them) to keep everything functioning as God intended.

The Bible does not tell us what God would have done after that....but who knows? Its a big universe and God has forever to accomplish whatever he wishes to do with it....

And as far as throwing out everything I've heard all I really heard is say this prayer and you will get the gift of the holy ghost and you'll have salvation, however I've done that 12 times and I don't feel anything, nor has anything changed. so if you could help me with this situation that would be greatly appreciated thanks?

That is not Christianity. You have been very misinformed I'm afraid. Christian faith is based on knowledge, not emotion. "Say the magic words" and some "ghost" pays a visit? No, sorry, its all about getting to know God and his Christ and what they require of us. (John 17:3) Its about willingly giving in to God's will rather than doing only what we want to do. If you love someone you naturally want to please them....the more you get to know God, the more you come to love him.....and the more you love him, the more you will want to please him. (Ecclesiastes 12:13) That is what Christianity is....imitating Christ in his love for God. (Matthew 11:28-30)

Learn all you can about your Creator.....and the only place to find him is in the Bible...it is his only communication with mankind today. All we need to know is in there.

If you would like some help just ask. I am happy to answer any questions....
 

Fool

ALL in all
Premium Member
What is the difference between a Christian and a non-Christian?

the self-identifying word christian.


don't let the costume fool you babs. everyone is wearing something until they overcome the illusion, then they take it off


(21) Mary said to Jesus, "Whom are your disciples like?"
He said, "They are like children who have settled in a field which is not theirs. When the owners of the field come, they will say, 'Let us have back our field.' They (will) undress in their presence in order to let them have back their field and to give it back to them. Therefore I say, if the owner of a house knows that the thief is coming, he will begin his vigil before he comes and will not let him dig through into his house of his domain to carry away his goods. You, then, be on your guard against the world. Arm yourselves with great strength lest the robbers find a way to come to you, for the difficulty which you expect will (surely) materialize. Let there be among you a man of understanding. When the grain ripened, he came quickly with his sickle in his hand and reaped it. Whoever has ears to hear, let him hear."


love, love, love look at'em now.


step, step into the insight, in to the light of the world.
 

1213

Well-Known Member
What is the difference between a Christian and a non-Christian?

Christian meant originally a disciple of Jesus. And disciple of Jesus is a person who remains in the words of Jesus.

Jesus therefore said to those Jews who had believed him, "If you remain in my word, then you are truly my disciples. You will know the truth, and the truth will make you free."
John 8:31-32

So, I would say, the difference between Christian and non-Christian is that the other remains in the teachings of Jesus and the other is not loyal to Jesus.
 

PureX

Veteran Member
So I just want to make sure I understand you clearly here, are you saying that I should find a God that is going to make my life more positive? And if so what God would you recommend?
I would recommend a god-concept that you find to be at least possible, and that you find helps you focus your life on the things that you believe, matter. For example, how much does condemning homosexuality as sin and perversion really matter to you? Or the demand to exclude any and all other possible god-concepts? See what I'm saying? If you accept these conditions, aren't they just going to turn you into someone you don't really want to be, or care for?

But how about a god-concept that calls your attention to and admonishes you to exemplify those traits within you that you do admire, and that you do believe are important, like forgiveness, generosity, compassion, love, etc.,? And how would you and your life change if you lived according to those internal 'gifts of the spirit'?

Christianity as I choose to understand it is both a revelation, and a promise. The revelation being that God's divine spirit exists within us all, and will manifest as love, forgiveness, kindness, generosity (and more) if we will set our own fears and desires aside, and allow them to do so. And the promise is that if we will allow that divine spirit within us to be our internal guide, we will be healed and saved from ourselves, and we will then be able to help to heal and save others. And when enough of us finally choose this path, the whole world will be healed and saved from us, through us.

I don't know if any of this is true. But I believe it's worth pursuing as an ideal in it's own right. Because in my experience, these 'gifts of the spirit' (love, forgiveness, kindness, generosity, etc.) have intrinsic value. Value that is self-evident. And in that I can trust.
 
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Brickjectivity

Turned to Stone. Now I stretch daily.
Staff member
Premium Member
What is the difference between a Christian and a non-Christian?
I have seen in the thread a lot of people saying that opinions differ. Others have said "Whoever says they are a Christian is one." I think though what you are asking for is a historical perspective.

Christianity has argued in its theological works Romans and Hebrews and John that the entire world is atoned, that all people are now to be considered holy. Hence it begins with the word 'Catholic' which means 'Universal' in English. It begins as a Jewish sect which says anyone may join and without the various behaviors designed to set Jews apart from other people, behaviors which make them holy. The Christians declare that you can wear mixed clothing, eat any food and do many other things that Jews are forbidden from doing and still be holy. Thus all people in the world are considered holy and set apart without doing those things, but that does not make them Christian. What remains is baptism, commitment and improvement. Everyone in the world is not Christian, but everyone in the world is included in the atonement meaning they are invited to become Christian. Thus the difference is in your commitment and how you spend your life. A lot of people also put emphasis upon belief. Some find particular importance in specific rituals such as water baptism.
 

Brickjectivity

Turned to Stone. Now I stretch daily.
Staff member
Premium Member
so I guess this is another thing I'm trying to figure out are all these things just words or is there anything worth believing?
I think you are putting the cart before the horse, but I don't blame you. Its supposed to be the other way around. Choose what is worth believing and believe that. You aren't seeing how that fits with Christianity, but its how things are meant to work. Do you believe peace on Earth is worth believing in? Then by the power of your conscience you have determined that it is worth believing in and are responsible to believe it. That is how things are supposed to work I think.

Well for the sake of conversation and this question I would say that I would wonder whether or not to call myself a Christian, however definitions from books describe it as christ-like, and I am nowhere close, so that kind of spells disaster for me so to speak. I'm not sure I'm ever going to understand this whole God concept in its full entirety apparently? Guess the whole idea, is security in the afterlife which is another concept, I'm struggling with oh, wow seems like I'm struggling with a lot of things, before I read the Bible I didn't really think a whole lot about it, now it consumes every fabric of my being especially upon the notion that I can't prove anything, again other than self-awareness, if that's even a logical understanding or not? Oh boy what am I going to do with myself?
I don't understand your situation, especially not the bit about having to walk a mile. There is a lot I don't understand, but I understand being alone. I understand that well. You will probably not be a very good Christian by yourself. You need other people and a shared commitment to the principles, and you need people that work with you. You need what is called an 'Equal yoke' situation; and I don't mean marriage though that can be in a marriage. I mean you need other people who will encourage you, who will annoy you, who you can help. Have you ever built a fire using small tinder like small twigs? You're like a little bit of tinder, and you're trying to make a big fire all by yourself. Its just not how things work.

According to my understanding of what I have read, Christians are only supposed to judge those that are within their fellowship, those who are outside of that fellowship will be judged by God not people. Therefore if a person does not go to church and is judged by a person that does go to church that is somewhat contradictory to biblical teachings? Is it not?
I agree. Christians are a government to themselves. This gets confusing when they seize 'Temporal' authority, and then you get dirty politics involved with Christianity. Christians judging non-Christians does not make sense. Also, I question the wisdom of large scale actions like ex communication. Make up your own mind about that, but I think judgment is supposed to be more personal and private when possible. I think there are exceptions: if someone is an axe-murderer then you can't just exclude them from your circle and must report them to whoever is able to keep them from doing the murdering and warn people they might visit etc. Common sense and empathy seem to work here just fine.

so I guess this would bring me to my next question, how do we know what is the truth if there are so many opinions, and go a step further anything about God obviously cannot be proved (according to some) so then what?
Again I don't think that is how you should approach this and don't think its really the Christian approach. What is worth believing? Believe that. Make something good happen. Its like declaring what you want to happen and then making it happen. Absolutely you should not believe things that you don't think are true, but you should believe in what you are working towards: Do you believe world peace is a good thing? Then you should believe its going to happen and be part of the effort to bring it about.

Mark 16 says

15 And he said unto them, Go ye into all the world, and preach the gospel to every creature.

16 He that believeth and is baptized shall be saved; but he that believeth not shall be damned.

17 And these signs shall follow them that believe; In my name shall they cast out devils; they shall speak with new tongues;

18 They shall take up serpents; and if they drink any deadly thing, it shall not hurt them; they shall lay hands on the sick, and they shall recover.
Is this what it means to be like Christ?
Mark 16 also indicates that they finished this task. Finish the chapter. These people did go everywhere and did preach the gospel using these signs. As and aside if you ask me these signs are not meant to be literal, but that is not even at issue here. These preachers finished says Mark, so you are not required to walk on snakes or drink poison. I really hope you don't try walking on serpents or drinking poison, because you'll be harmed. If you think about it what really is accomplished by these empty actions? "Wee I'm drinking poison yay for me?"

I really very much and deeply so want to believe in this Christianity however, I don't see any people healing The sick and feeding thousands of people with a couple of loaves of bread after prayer, and walking on water and, raising the Dead, opening the eyes of the blind and ears of deaf, turning water into wine and so on? Basically all I hear and see is opinions and observations so I guess I'm just confused?
As you say you are confused about this I think. You should not be trying to believe things that you think are untrue, nor should you feel guilty for not believing things unless you think they are worth believing. Find your level of faith. Suppose you have a very limited capability and limited vision, but you think there is a small good work that you can accomplish -- such as making a pen pal and cheering them up. The believing this and the truth of this are together. You haven't written or cheered them up yet, but you have faith that you can. What remains is to write the letter. You make the penpal, justifying your faith connecting past and future. You believed you could cheer them up, and your efforts were based on that. If you failed, if you wrote and they were not cheered up, then your belief was mistaken. It was a reasonable belief, however. You wouldn't have tried if it were impossible.
 

PureX

Veteran Member
Well for the sake of conversation and this question I would say that I would wonder whether or not to call myself a Christian, however definitions from books describe it as christ-like, and I am nowhere close, so that kind of spells disaster for me so to speak. I'm not sure I'm ever going to understand this whole God concept in its full entirety apparently? Guess the whole idea, is security in the afterlife which is another concept, I'm struggling with oh, wow seems like I'm struggling with a lot of things, before I read the Bible I didn't really think a whole lot about it, now it consumes every fabric of my being especially upon the notion that I can't prove anything, again other than self-awareness, if that's even a logical understanding or not? Oh boy what am I going to do with myself?
I think you maybe need to 'let go of yourself', a bit. You aren't going to 'get it right'. No one does. No one has to. And only our foolish egos would expect/demand that of us. The best we can do is try and identify the goals, and then try to move in that direction. If religious Christianity does not help you do that, then drop it. It's just religion, after all.
 
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