Did Paul misquote scripture on purpose?

IndigoChild5559 · Dec 7, 2019

New Paradigm said:
Paul abused Scripture by taking passages out of context and giving them meanings that were never intended!

To proof-text his doctrine, Paul lifted numerous Scripture passages out of their context and gave them meanings that were never intended. Some of these passages he gave a meaning that the context absolutely nullifies. The following is one classic example:

One of Paul’s unique and fundamental doctrines states that absolutely no one is righteous. To proof-text his doctrine Paul cuts and pastes together no less than 7 snippets of Scripture and presents them as one:

“There is none righteous, no, not one. There is none who seeks after God. They have all gone out of the way. They have together become unprofitable. There is none who does good, no, not one. Their throat is an open tomb; with their tongues they have practiced deceit. The poison of asps is under their lips; whose mouth is full of cursing and bitterness. Their feet are swift to shed blood. Destruction and misery are in their ways; and the way of peace they have not known. There is no fear of God before their eyes.” Romans 3:10-18

Each of every one of these snippets Paul took out of context and gave a meaning that its author never intended. The first snippet is our example of how Paul gave a meaning to a passage that only a verse or two later the author says something that completely destroys what Paul said about it. It was taken from Psalm 14. David here begins by speaking specifically of “fools”, who say in their heart “there is no God”.
The fool has said in his heart, “There is no God.” They are corrupt, they have done abominable works, there is none who does good. The Lord looks down from heaven upon the children of men, to see if there are any who understand, who seek God. They have all turned aside, they have together become corrupt. There is none who does good, no, not one. Psalm 14:1-3

David is in no way referring to every human being with the term “the children of men”. He is speaking of the fools who say there is no God and is referring specifically to them as the children of men. It is among these that he says there is none righteous. We know this because he goes on to contrast these children of men with those he calls the generation of the righteous!
Have all the workers of iniquity no knowledge, who eat up MY people as they eat bread, and do not call on the Lord? There they are in great fear, for God is
with the generation of the righteous. Psalm 14:4-5

Imagine that, ... “the generation of THE RIGHTEOUS”!! Paul didn’t tell us about this part of the Psalm! So much for his doctrine that no one is righteous.

Hey New Paradigm! So nice to meet you! We are going to be interesting companions in this forum, because we share as much as we differ about. There will be those occasions where I argue with you. But in THIS post, I can only say KUDOS!!!!

Well written.

I don't think Christians have any idea just how bad things are, just how much their scriptures take out of context, misquote, add clauses, and even invent a verse. (Obviously I'm speaking of the entire collection of Christian scriptures, not just the Pauline ones.

One of the butcheries of the Tanakh that get my goat is Hebrews 10:5 "Therefore, when Christ came into the world, he said: "Sacrifice and offering you did not desire, but a body you prepared for me." It is supposed to be quoting Psalm 40:6 (Psalm 40:7 in Jewish texts). BUT Psalm 40:6 says nothing about a body!!!! Nothing!!!! It says,
Sacrifice and meal-offering Thou hast no delight in; mine ears hast Thou opened; burnt-offering and sin-offering hast Thou not required." IOW the Christian author of Hebrew makes up the so called "body" quote out of whole cloth!

And then after butchering our beloved Tanakh, they want us to become Chrisitans? I don't think so. Run away! Run away!

IndigoChild5559 · Dec 7, 2019

1213 said:
Sorry, I think you have misunderstood that. If person is righteous, he obeys the Law. But even unrighteous person can obey the law outwardly, for example when he fears that he is punished if he does what he really wants. Evil person can also do what the Law says and it doesn’t make him righteous. Righteousness is wisdom of the just, like right understanding that makes person do right things, because person understands it is good. So, I would like to know, why do you obey the law, because you have to, or because you know it is good and right?

Here is where there is a great disagreement between Chrisitanity and Judaism. In Judaism, JUST OBEY IT. Good motivations, bad motivations, great attitude, bad attitude, just obey. Sure the ideal is to have kavannah, heart, but it's still a mitzvah if there is no kavannah.

If I'm starving and someone offers me food, do you think I care whether they are giving out of the goodness of their hearts, or whether their wife is nagging them to do a mitzvah before Shabbat? I only care that I was hungry and they fed me.

So yes, it is obeying God that is righteousness. Emotions come and go. Motivations come into line as we grow closer to Hashem. But can someone be evil while fulfilling the Torah? Loving God and his neighbor as himself? Of course not.

On the other hand, let's examine the claims of Christianity. Chrisitanity is a religion of right belief. Believe this list of things, and you will be saved from eternal damnation. "Whosoever believes in him..." as it goes.

The problem is, history is replete with those who qualify by their beliefs to be Christians, yet have done enormous wickedness, even wickedness in the name of Jesus, such as the mass killings of Jews on the way to the Crusades.

So obviously, "believing in him" does not succeed in making a person righteous.

Of course, there are those Christians who employ the fallacy of "No true Scotsman." Oh, those weren't *real* Chrisitans! they say. Apparently there are those who "believe in him" who don't "have eternal life." So much for their own scriptures.

Trailblazer · Dec 7, 2019

IndigoChild5559 said:
So obviously, "believing in him" does not succeed in making a person righteous.

Of course, there are those Christians who employ the fallacy of "No true Scotsman." Oh, those weren't *real* Chrisitans! they say. Apparently there are those who "believe in him" who don't "have eternal life." So much for their own scriptures.

I guess you could say that Christians cherry pick in order to get eternal life, or so they believe.

Matthew 25:35-46

35 For I was anhungred, and ye gave me meat: I was thirsty, and ye gave me drink: I was a stranger, and ye took me in:

36 Naked, and ye clothed me: I was sick, and ye visited me: I was in prison, and ye came unto me.

37 Then shall the righteous answer him, saying, Lord, when saw we thee anhungred, and fed thee? or thirsty, and gave thee drink?

38 When saw we thee a stranger, and took thee in? or naked, and clothed thee?

39 Or when saw we thee sick, or in prison, and came unto thee?

40 And the King shall answer and say unto them, Verily I say unto you, Inasmuch as ye have done it unto one of the least of these my brethren, ye have done it unto me.

41 Then shall he say also unto them on the left hand, Depart from me, ye cursed, into everlasting fire, prepared for the devil and his angels:

42 For I was an hungred, and ye gave me no meat: I was thirsty, and ye gave me no drink:

43 I was a stranger, and ye took me not in: naked, and ye clothed me not: sick, and in prison, and ye visited me not.

44 Then shall they also answer him, saying, Lord, when saw we thee an hungred, or athirst, or a stranger, or naked, or sick, or in prison, and did not minister unto thee?

45 Then shall he answer them, saying, Verily I say unto you, Inasmuch as ye did it not to one of the least of these, ye did it not to me.

46 And these shall go away into everlasting punishment: but the righteous into life eternal.

IndigoChild5559 · Dec 7, 2019

Trailblazer said:
I guess you could say that Christians cherry pick in order to get eternal life, or so they believe.

Matthew 25:35-46

35 For I was anhungred, and ye gave me meat: I was thirsty, and ye gave me drink: I was a stranger, and ye took me in:

36 Naked, and ye clothed me: I was sick, and ye visited me: I was in prison, and ye came unto me.

37 Then shall the righteous answer him, saying, Lord, when saw we thee anhungred, and fed thee? or thirsty, and gave thee drink?

38 When saw we thee a stranger, and took thee in? or naked, and clothed thee?

39 Or when saw we thee sick, or in prison, and came unto thee?

40 And the King shall answer and say unto them, Verily I say unto you, Inasmuch as ye have done it unto one of the least of these my brethren, ye have done it unto me.

41 Then shall he say also unto them on the left hand, Depart from me, ye cursed, into everlasting fire, prepared for the devil and his angels:

42 For I was an hungred, and ye gave me no meat: I was thirsty, and ye gave me no drink:

43 I was a stranger, and ye took me not in: naked, and ye clothed me not: sick, and in prison, and ye visited me not.

44 Then shall they also answer him, saying, Lord, when saw we thee an hungred, or athirst, or a stranger, or naked, or sick, or in prison, and did not minister unto thee?

45 Then shall he answer them, saying, Verily I say unto you, Inasmuch as ye did it not to one of the least of these, ye did it not to me.

46 And these shall go away into everlasting punishment: but the righteous into life eternal.

I agree with you completely in this post, Trailblazer !!! KUDOS

The gospels are overlaid with added Greek ideas, but at their core, they present a very Jewish Jesus. I may not appreciate his self identification with the son of man, but as far as the importance of helping the poor, the sick, and the oppressed, Jesus really nails it here.

You know, Isaiah takes Israel to task at one point for this. He basically tells us that God says (paraphrasing), "Do you think I want your offerings? They stink to me. You can keep your Holy Days and Sabbaths! I will punish you because you do not have social justice for the poor and oppressed." You see, Israel was doing EVERYTHING right... except for the social justice.

It's good that Jesus kicked a little butt on this. I wish more Christians would pay attention to it.

Spartan · Dec 7, 2019

IndigoChild5559 said:
Hey New Paradigm! So nice to meet you! We are going to be interesting companions in this forum, because we share as much as we differ about. There will be those occasions where I argue with you. But in THIS post, I can only say KUDOS!!!! Well written.

I don't think Christians have any idea just how bad things are, just how much their scriptures take out of context, misquote, add clauses, and even invent a verse. (Obviously I'm speaking of the entire collection of Christian scriptures, not just the Pauline ones.

One of the butcheries of the Tanakh that get my goat is Hebrews 10:5 "Therefore, when Christ came into the world, he said: "Sacrifice and offering you did not desire, but a body you prepared for me." It is supposed to be quoting Psalm 40:6 (Psalm 40:7 in Jewish texts). BUT Psalm 40:6 says nothing about a body!!!! Nothing!!!! It says,
Sacrifice and meal-offering Thou hast no delight in; mine ears hast Thou opened; burnt-offering and sin-offering hast Thou not required." IOW the Christian author of Hebrew makes up the so called "body" quote out of whole cloth!

And then after butchering our beloved Tanakh, they want us to become Chrisitans? I don't think so. Run away! Run away!

It's always confusing to those without the Spirit (1 Corinthians 2:14).

IndigoChild5559 · Dec 7, 2019

Spartan said:
It's always confusing to those without the Spirit (1 Corinthians 2:14).

One of the oldest tricks in the book is to attack and dismiss the interlocuter. It actually known in logic as the ad hominem fallacy.

Try making an argument for your position or an argument against mine. That's what a real apologist would do. Not play games.

Tumah · Dec 7, 2019

IndigoChild5559 said:
Here is where there is a great disagreement between Chrisitanity and Judaism. In Judaism, JUST OBEY IT. Good motivations, bad motivations, great attitude, bad attitude, just obey. Sure the ideal is to have kavannah, heart, but it's still a mitzvah if there is no kavannah.

If I'm starving and someone offers me food, do you think I care whether they are giving out of the goodness of their hearts, or whether their wife is nagging them to do a mitzvah before Shabbat? I only care that I was hungry and they fed me.

So yes, it is obeying God that is righteousness. Emotions come and go. Motivations come into line as we grow closer to Hashem. But can someone be evil while fulfilling the Torah? Loving God and his neighbor as himself? Of course not.

On the other hand, let's examine the claims of Christianity. Chrisitanity is a religion of right belief. Believe this list of things, and you will be saved from eternal damnation. "Whosoever believes in him..." as it goes.

The problem is, history is replete with those who qualify by their beliefs to be Christians, yet have done enormous wickedness, even wickedness in the name of Jesus, such as the mass killings of Jews on the way to the Crusades.

So obviously, "believing in him" does not succeed in making a person righteous.

Of course, there are those Christians who employ the fallacy of "No true Scotsman." Oh, those weren't *real* Chrisitans! they say. Apparently there are those who "believe in him" who don't "have eternal life." So much for their own scriptures.

This was very nicely written, I just want to correct two things.

In Judaism, correct belief to an extent is as much required as correct action. The halachah is that מצוות צריכות כוונה - fulfilling Biblical commandments require (at least passive) intent to fulfill a commandment of G-d. Without that intent, the commandment isn't considered fulfilled and would need to be performed again. And that is, as you said, aside from more advanced intentions.

The other thing is that it's possible to follow all the Laws of the Torah and still be doing it wrong. What Nachmanides calls a נבל ברשות התורה - detestable with the permission of the Torah. Following the spirit of the Law is - although perhaps not as important as fulfilling the actual commandments, but also a component to being a good Jew. While Christians like to think that Jews miss the "spirit of the Law", the reality is that they simply created an entirely new one because of their NT and they elevate the spirit of the Law to be more important than the explicit Law. The obvious problem with that slippery slope is obvious.

IndigoChild5559 · Dec 8, 2019

Tumah said:
This was very nicely written, I just want to correct two things.

In Judaism, correct belief to an extent is as much required as correct action. The halachah is that מצוות צריכות כוונה - fulfilling Biblical commandments require (at least passive) intent to fulfill a commandment of G-d. Without that intent, the commandment isn't considered fulfilled and would need to be performed again. And that is, as you said, aside from more advanced intentions.

The other thing is that it's possible to follow all the Laws of the Torah and still be doing it wrong. What Nachmanides calls a נבל ברשות התורה - detestable with the permission of the Torah. Following the spirit of the Law is - although perhaps not as important as fulfilling the actual commandments, but also a component to being a good Jew. While Christians like to think that Jews miss the "spirit of the Law", the reality is that they simply created an entirely new one because of their NT and they elevate the spirit of the Law to be more important than the explicit Law. The obvious problem with that slippery slope is obvious.

thank you! I love being corrected because it means I learn more

.

I'm particularly interested in what you were saying about "detestable with the permission of the Torah." If you have the time, I'd really like to get maybe a paragraph or two from you what this means and what it might look like in real life, and how I should avoid it.

Thanks!

1213 · Dec 8, 2019

IndigoChild5559 said:
…So yes, it is obeying God that is righteousness. Emotions come and go. Motivations come into line as we grow closer to Hashem. But can someone be evil while fulfilling the Torah? …

I think evil person can act like righteous person. It doesn’t make him righteous. Hypocrite people do that and hypocrisy is what Jesus was against.

IndigoChild5559 said:
…On the other hand, let's examine the claims of Christianity. Chrisitanity is a religion of right belief. Believe this list of things, and you will be saved from eternal damnation. "Whosoever believes in him..." as it goes.

I think that is over simplification. But I don’t blame you, it seems to be what many “Christians” believe. It is true that person is saved from the judgment that would come because of sin and it is freely offered for all. But Jesus also says:

These will go away into eternal punishment, but the righteous into eternal life.
Mat. 25:46

For the wages of sin is death, but the free gift of God is eternal life in Christ Jesus our Lord.
Romans 6:23

Person must be righteous to get eternal life. And if person is righteous, it will show in his actions.

He who does righteousness is righteous, even as he is righteous. He who sins is of the devil, for the devil has been sinning from the beginning. To this end the Son of God was revealed, that he might destroy the works of the devil. Whoever is born of God doesn't commit sin, because his seed remains in him; and he can't sin, because he is born of God. In this the children of God are revealed, and the children of the devil. Whoever doesn't do righteousness is not of God, neither is he who doesn't love his brother.
1 John 3:7-10

IndigoChild5559 said:
…Of course, there are those Christians who employ the fallacy of "No true Scotsman." Oh, those weren't *real* Chrisitans! they say. Apparently there are those who "believe in him" who don't "have eternal life." So much for their own scriptures.

Christian meant originally a disciple of Jesus. And according to the Bible, a disciple of Jesus is a person who remains in the teachings of Jesus:

Jesus therefore said to those Jews who had believed him, "If you remain in my word, then you are truly my disciples. You will know the truth, and the truth will make you free."
John 8:31-32

It is quite easy to see that many Christians don’t do that and therefore they are not really Christian, if Christian still is a disciple of Jesus as it originally was.

Wandering Monk · Dec 8, 2019

Tumah said:
. While Christians like to think that Jews miss the "spirit of the Law", the reality is that they simply created an entirely new one because of their NT and they elevate the spirit of the Law to be more important than the explicit Law. The obvious problem with that slippery slope is obvious.

Exemplified by this story:

Exodus Rabbah VI: 1. When God gave the Torah to Israel, He inserted therein positive and negative commands and gave some commandments for a king, as it says: Only he shall not multiply horses to himself... Neither shall he multiply wives to himself, that his heart turn not away; neither silver and gold (Deut. XVII, 16-17). But Solomon arose and studied the reason of God's decree, saying: Why did God command, " He shall not multiply wives to himself? Is it not " That his heart turn not away "? Well, I will multiply and still my heart will not turn away. Our Sages said: At that time, the yod of the word yarbeh went up on high and prostrated itself before God and said: Master of the Universe! Hast thou not said that no letter shall ever be abolished from the Torah? Behold, Solomon has now arisen and abolished one. Who knows? Today he has abolished one letter, to-morrow he will abolish another until the whole Torah will be nullified? ' God replied: ' Solomon and a thousand like him will pass away, but the smallest tittle will not be erased from thee. For it came to pass, when Solomon was old, that his wives turned away his heart after other gods (I Kings XI, 4). R. Simeon b. Yohai said: It had been better for Solomon to clean sewers than to have this verse written of him; for this reason did Solomon say of himself: And I turned myself to behold wisdom, and madness and folly (Eccl. II, 12). Solomon said: Because I tried to be wiser than the Torah and persuaded myself that I knew the intention of the Torah, did this understanding and knowledge turn out to be madness and folly.

Wandering Monk · Dec 8, 2019

The notion that Christians have that right beliefs get you into the world to come are belied by this story from Jesus himself. Here entrance into the world to come is based on ACTIONS, even when the subject didn't even know who Jesus was:

Matthew 25:

The Sheep and the Goats

31 “When the Son of Man comes in his glory, and all the angels with him, he will sit on his glorious throne. 32 All the nations will be gathered before him, and he will separate the people one from another as a shepherd separates the sheep from the goats. 33 He will put the sheep on his right and the goats on his left.
34 “Then the King will say to those on his right, ‘Come, you who are blessed by my Father; take your inheritance, the kingdom prepared for you since the creation of the world. 35 For I was hungry and you gave me something to eat, I was thirsty and you gave me something to drink, I was a stranger and you invited me in, 36 I needed clothes and you clothed me, I was sick and you looked after me, I was in prison and you came to visit me.’
37 “Then the righteous will answer him, ‘Lord, when did we see you hungry and feed you, or thirsty and give you something to drink? 38 When did we see you a stranger and invite you in, or needing clothes and clothe you? 39 When did we see you sick or in prison and go to visit you?’
40 “The King will reply, ‘Truly I tell you, whatever you did for one of the least of these brothers and sisters of mine, you did for me.’
41 “Then he will say to those on his left, ‘Depart from me, you who are cursed, into the eternal fire prepared for the devil and his angels. 42 For I was hungry and you gave me nothing to eat, I was thirsty and you gave me nothing to drink, 43 I was a stranger and you did not invite me in, I needed clothes and you did not clothe me, I was sick and in prison and you did not look after me.’
44 “They also will answer, ‘Lord, when did we see you hungry or thirsty or a stranger or needing clothes or sick or in prison, and did not help you?’
45 “He will reply, ‘Truly I tell you, whatever you did not do for one of the least of these, you did not do for me.’
46 “Then they will go away to eternal punishment, but the righteous to eternal life.”

IndigoChild5559 · Dec 8, 2019

1213 said:
I think evil person can act like righteous person. It doesn’t make him righteous. Hypocrite people do that and hypocrisy is what Jesus was against.

Just being a little picky here, but you have wrongly defined hypocrisy. Hypocrisy means saying one thing and doing another. Jesus complained that the Pharisees taught Torah, but did not follow it in their private lives. (I'm not sure how true that was of the group as a whole, but certainly many of us need to work on not being hypocrites, but rather on being more faithful and obedient. Christians too.

Person must be righteous to get eternal life. And if person is righteous, it will show in his actions.

Although this is true, it is too weakly worded. You make it seem like the actions is only the outer garment. Actions are the core. I'm not saying that faith is not important. But we show our faith by our actions. You can't divorce the two. Even your own scriptures say that faith without works is dead.

He who does righteousness is righteous, even as he is righteous. He who sins is of the devil, for the devil has been sinning from the beginning. To this end the Son of God was revealed, that he might destroy the works of the devil. Whoever is born of God doesn't commit sin, because his seed remains in him; and he can't sin, because he is born of God. In this the children of God are revealed, and the children of the devil. Whoever doesn't do righteousness is not of God, neither is he who doesn't love 9is brother.

Click to expand...

1 John 3:7-10

James and 1 John are both more Jewish than Paul's epistles.

It is quite easy to see that many Christians don’t do that and therefore they are not really Christian, if Christian still is a disciple of Jesus as it originally was.

The fact that they are hypocrites doesn't make them un-Christian. It makes them poor Chrisitans. If you get into who is a real Christian, you engage in a logical fallacy known as the No True Scotsman (aka the appeal to purity).

Tumah · Dec 10, 2019

IndigoChild5559 said:
thank you! I love being corrected because it means I learn more .

I'm particularly interested in what you were saying about "detestable with the permission of the Torah." If you have the time, I'd really like to get maybe a paragraph or two from you what this means and what it might look like in real life, and how I should avoid it.

Thanks!

The idea is basically that within the things that are permitted to us, it's still possible to do wrong. For instance, even though we're restricted to only eating kosher meat, you can still be a glutton with kosher meat. There's no explicit prohibition to being a glutton, but being a glutton isn't good behavior. The same for being a drunkard. The wine needs to be kosher, but once it is, there's no where in the Torah that prohibits drinking 5 bottles of wine a day. Nachmanides explains that that's what the commandment of Lev. 19:2 requires of us - to go beyond the letter of the Law.

IndigoChild5559 · Dec 10, 2019

Tumah said:
The idea is basically that within the things that are permitted to us, it's still possible to do wrong. For instance, even though we're restricted to only eating kosher meat, you can still be a glutton with kosher meat. There's no explicit prohibition to being a glutton, but being a glutton isn't good behavior. The same for being a drunkard. The wine needs to be kosher, but once it is, there's no where in the Torah that prohibits drinking 5 bottles of wine a day. Nachmanides explains that that's what the commandment of Lev. 19:2 requires of us - to go beyond the letter of the Law.

Got it! Thanks.

Spartan · Dec 11, 2019

IndigoChild5559 said:
One of the butcheries of the Tanakh that get my goat is Hebrews 10:5 "Therefore, when Christ came into the world, he said: "Sacrifice and offering you did not desire, but a body you prepared for me." It is supposed to be quoting Psalm 40:6 (Psalm 40:7 in Jewish texts). BUT Psalm 40:6 says nothing about a body!!!! Nothing!!!! It says,
Sacrifice and meal-offering Thou hast no delight in; mine ears hast Thou opened; burnt-offering and sin-offering hast Thou not required." IOW the Christian author of Hebrew makes up the so called "body" quote out of whole cloth!

And then after butchering our beloved Tanakh, they want us to become Chrisitans? I don't think so. Run away! Run away!

Run from the anti-Christian naysayers!!

The information I have is that the author of Hebrews had been quoting the Septuagint. The Septuagint translates Psalm 40:6 the same way as Hebrews, so the author of Hebrews used the same exact translation in this passage as the Septuagint. The Septuagint was widely acknowledged as a good translation at the time. And it was translated that way by 70 (72) Jewish scholars, right? So it wasn't the author of Hebrews who butchered it, it must have been your very own Jewish scholars, LOL. Christianity Rocks!!

Spartan · Dec 11, 2019

Rival said:
The Tanakh disagrees with you. Psalm 119 disagrees with you. The scriptures describe many people as righteous.

In the Old Testament righteousness is by faith in God (Genesis 15:6), not by works.

IndigoChild5559 · Dec 11, 2019

Spartan said:
Run from the anti-Christian naysayers!!

The information I have is that the author of Hebrews had been quoting the Septuagint. The Septuagint translates Psalm 40:6 the same way as Hebrews, so the author of Hebrews used the same exact translation in this passage as the Septuagint. The Septuagint was widely acknowledged as a good translation at the time. And it was translated that way by 70 (72) Jewish scholars, right? So it wasn't the author of Hebrews who butchered it, it must have been your very own Jewish scholars, LOL. Christianity Rocks!!

The Torah portion was translated by the seventy scholars, but the rest of it was not. The rest is a highly inferior translation that takes great liberties. Christian scholars insist that the translation date was early, but other scholars say it was translated by Christians, with the intention to underscore Christian doctrine.

At any rate, which are you going to believe, the Hebrew original language, or an inferior translation?

Spartan · Dec 11, 2019

IndigoChild5559 said:
The Torah portion was translated by the seventy scholars, but the rest of it was not. The rest is a highly inferior translation that takes great liberties. Christian scholars insist that the translation date was early, but other scholars say it was translated by Christians, with the intention to underscore Christian doctrine.

At any rate, which are you going to believe, the Hebrew original language, or an inferior translation?

I believe Jesus. And I hope you'll be more careful about blaming Christians for alleged false quotations when they were quoting the works of Jewish scholars.

IndigoChild5559 · Dec 11, 2019

Spartan said:
I believe Jesus. And I hope you'll be more careful about blaming Christians for alleged false quotations when they were quoting the works of Jewish scholars.

Like I said, they were NOT quoting the seventy Jewish scholars. They were quoting fellow Christians. It's circular.

You know what? You need to use the Tanakh (Old Testament) as a test to see if the Christian scriptures are valid. You can't just start with the Christian scriptures and read backwards, rewriting the Hebrew scriptures. That's no different than what the Mormons do with the book of Mormon, or what the Muslims do with the Quran. Don't make the same mistake. If there is a problem between the Hebrew text and the Greek NT, then ditch the NT as being a fraud. Stick with what you know God has given.

Spartan · Dec 11, 2019

IndigoChild5559 said:
Like I said, they were NOT quoting the seventy Jewish scholars. They were quoting fellow Christians. It's circular.

The quote originated with the Septuagint, not with Christians.

IndigoChild5559 said:
You know what? You need to use the Tanakh (Old Testament) as a test to see if the Christian scriptures are valid. You can't just start with the Christian scriptures and read backwards, rewriting the Hebrew scriptures. That's no different than what the Mormons do with the book of Mormon, or what the Muslims do with the Quran. Don't make the same mistake. If there is a problem between the Hebrew text and the Greek NT, then ditch the NT as being a fraud. Stick with what you know God has given.

You need to pay more attention to your Messiah, Jesus the Christ.

Did Paul misquote scripture on purpose?

Loving God and my neighbor as myself.

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