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Paul the Gnostic

OtherSheep

<--@ Titangel
"The conversion of Paul, according to the Acts, is supposed to have occurred sometime after the year 30 A.D. at the earliest; and yet if we accept the data furnished by the book of Acts and Paul's Epistle to the Galatians, he must have been converted as early as the year 27 A.D. Paul states that after his conversion he did not go up to Jerusalem for three years. Then after 14 more years he went up again to Jerusalem with Barnabas. This second visit can be dated by means of the famine, which is historic, and known to have occurred in the year 44, at which time relief was conveyed to the brethren in Judea by Barnabas and Paul. If we take 17 years from 44, the different statements go to show that Paul had been converted as early as the year 27. Thus, according to the dates and the data derived from the Acts, from Paul's epistle, and the historic fact of the famine, Paul was converted to Christianity in the year 27 of our era!"
Gerald Massey - lectures : Gerald Massey : Free Download, Borrow, and Streaming : Internet Archive

Which begs the question, which christ did Paul preach? Massey says that the hands of the scribes are all over the letters of Paul. And that the finder of these letters was also a Gnostic. In fact, the term Gnostic has come to mean many things, some of which do NOT relate to Gnostic secrets. But Gnostic is surely the meaning behind the term Nicolataines, since Nicolas was a famous gnostic, back in the day.
 

leov

Well-Known Member
"The conversion of Paul, according to the Acts, is supposed to have occurred sometime after the year 30 A.D. at the earliest; and yet if we accept the data furnished by the book of Acts and Paul's Epistle to the Galatians, he must have been converted as early as the year 27 A.D. Paul states that after his conversion he did not go up to Jerusalem for three years. Then after 14 more years he went up again to Jerusalem with Barnabas. This second visit can be dated by means of the famine, which is historic, and known to have occurred in the year 44, at which time relief was conveyed to the brethren in Judea by Barnabas and Paul. If we take 17 years from 44, the different statements go to show that Paul had been converted as early as the year 27. Thus, according to the dates and the data derived from the Acts, from Paul's epistle, and the historic fact of the famine, Paul was converted to Christianity in the year 27 of our era!"
Gerald Massey - lectures : Gerald Massey : Free Download, Borrow, and Streaming : Internet Archive

Which begs the question, which christ did Paul preach? Massey says that the hands of the scribes are all over the letters of Paul. And that the finder of these letters was also a Gnostic. In fact, the term Gnostic has come to mean many things, some of which do NOT relate to Gnostic secrets. But Gnostic is surely the meaning behind the term Nicolataines, since Nicolas was a famous gnostic, back in the day.
Paul's Gospel was the same Gnostic Gospel that Christ Jesus was preaching - the Kingdom of God within, different gospel than came out of James and Peter because of spirit - soul division.
 

1213

Well-Known Member
"The conversion of Paul, according to the Acts, is supposed to have occurred sometime after the year 30 A.D. at the earliest; and yet if we accept the data furnished by the book of Acts and Paul's Epistle to the Galatians, he must have been converted as early as the year 27 A.D. ....

I don’t think there is enough support for that claim.
 

OtherSheep

<--@ Titangel
Paul's Gospel was the same Gnostic Gospel that Christ Jesus was preaching - the Kingdom of God within, different gospel than came out of James and Peter because of spirit - soul division.

John, and Peter and James taught the Kingdom Gospel... which means that which Jesus taught... according to Matthew 28, closing verses.

Paul taught a different gospel, and he tells you so. Nor could he have done anything else, having never had, first hand, the Gospel of the Kingdom.

The Kingdom of God is in the midst of you, doesn't mean Jezebel's mysteries as taught by Paul. Jesus tells us very plainly that He judges the heart... apparently in order to keep you from injuring your neighbors... rather than needing a sacrificial covering, God will have mercy, and not sacrifice. The Pharisees never understood this, and neither do those who have swallowed the leaven of the Pharisees.

Do yourself a favor, leov, and cough it up.
 
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OtherSheep

<--@ Titangel
Constantine the great created Christianity with its jeshu.

Constantine the traitor never created anything. Jesus says thou shalt not kill, in no uncertain terms. And if that's not definitive enough, Jesus tells you to pray for your enemies. Anybody who thinks praying for your enemies at night, while killing them by day... is a workable construct... will have a lot of explaining to do at the judgment.

God never gave a symbol by which to conquer... nor did He give anyone permission to kill everything that breathes... any where... for any reason. Constantine was of his father the devil, as are any people who kill another person. Jesus wasn't kidding when He told the Jews that they did the works of Satan by planning Jesus' murder. And since Jesus told the Pharisees that they were responsible for the murder of Abel, the Pharisees are physically linked to Cain.
 
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OtherSheep

<--@ Titangel
I don’t think there is enough support for that claim.

Perhaps not. I simply found the idea interesting... not that I buy Massey, en masse.

The fact is that Jesus prophesied about the likes of Paul, on several different occasions. One such time regarded those in the wilderness who claimed to come under the authority of Jesus, claiming to be the Christ... which is precisely what happened to Paul who said Satan came disguised as an angel of light... In fact, the Discipled Apostles saw not a light, but the Son of Man... even in the Revelation.

The difference between these two aspects is huge. Jesus told Thomas to put his hand to the wound. Paul says the physical doesn't inherit eternity... that Paul's followers will be ... creatures of light? ... or at the very least, not physical beings. But even in the Psalms, we are told that Jesus will always have His physical body.
 

OtherSheep

<--@ Titangel
Paul is the Moses of NT, a Law declarer.

Seriously?

Paul is the one who, apart from any law whatsoever, did miracles, signs and wonders... supposedly under the authority of Jesus... to whom Jesus will say, I never knew you, depart from Me, ye who work anomia (a - not, nomia - law). Jesus was speaking directly about the Pauline 'church'.

Paul negated the OT, which is THE way to tell who's the false prophet. Paul says point blank, that he's against Sabbath and Festivals, forbidding of foods, and ordinances written in stone... which can only be the 10 commandments, because what else was written in stone in that day?

Jesus says Jezebel who calls herself a prophet (Paul claimed to do so more than anyone else), teaches people to eat foods sacrificed to idols (Paul says it's ok to eat in the temple of the idol), and to commit fornication (Paul makes no mention of marriage law that matches what was in the beginning or that which requires a writing of divorce), and Jesus says he will cast Jezebel (Paulianity) upon a bed (of harlotry, turning Jezebel into Babylon), and her children into The Great Tribulation, and He will kill her children with Death (which rides the pale horse).

Paulianity is Babylon, which is created of the mysteries which Paul calls the deep things of God... but which Jesus calls the deep things of Satan. If you believe Paul's mysteries, and you are alive during The Great Tribulation, you will be harvested by the rider called Death. If you die before The Great Tribulation, and you believe Paul's mysteries... at the Great Judgement, Jesus will say He never knew you.
________________________
Look, here's the thing.

If you believe what Jesus taught to His Discipled Apostles (as written by Matthew and John), you will do what Jesus taught, and you will be called chosen and faithful. ... If you do all that, and DON'T BELIEVE ANYTHING THAT PAUL TAUGHT, what's the worst that can happen to you?
Seriously.
 

leov

Well-Known Member
John, and Peter and James taught the Kingdom Gospel... which means that which Jesus taught... according to Matthew 28, closing verses.

Paul taught a different gospel, and he tells you so. Nor could he have done anything else, having never had, first hand, the Gospel of the Kingdom.

The Kingdom of God is in the midst of you, doesn't mean Jezebel's mysteries as taught by Paul. Jesus tells us very plainly that He judges the heart... apparently in order to keep you from injuring your neighbors... rather than needing a sacrificial covering, God will have mercy, and not sacrifice. The Pharisees never understood this, and neither do those who have swallowed the leaven of the Pharisees.

Do yourself a favor, leov, and cough it up.
clash of Jesus Principle and Christ Principle. Jesus Himself is proponent of Christ Principle. Jesus called Himself as teacher of Mysteries of Kingdom. Paul was proponent of converting of Jesus Principle (baby food) into Christ Principle (solud food). Faith through Knowledge to Agape
 

leov

Well-Known Member
John, and Peter and James taught the Kingdom Gospel... which means that which Jesus taught... according to Matthew 28, closing verses.

Paul taught a different gospel, and he tells you so. Nor could he have done anything else, having never had, first hand, the Gospel of the Kingdom.

The Kingdom of God is in the midst of you, doesn't mean Jezebel's mysteries as taught by Paul. Jesus tells us very plainly that He judges the heart... apparently in order to keep you from injuring your neighbors... rather than needing a sacrificial covering, God will have mercy, and not sacrifice. The Pharisees never understood this, and neither do those who have swallowed the leaven of the Pharisees.

Do yourself a favor, leov, and cough it up.
Jesus proclaimed the Kingdom is neear, within you. just as Paul's Christ in me.
 

PearlSeeker

Well-Known Member
Some writings appealed to later gnostics but I think Paul wasn't gnostic. What seems gnostic is taken out of context or misinterpreted. Yes, he was into some secret/esoteric knowledge but love is still above.

And if I have prophetic powers, and understand all mysteries and all knowledge, and if I have all faith, so as to remove mountains, but have not love, I am nothing. (1 Cor 13:2)
 

leov

Well-Known Member
Some writings appealed to later gnostics but I think Paul wasn't gnostic. What seems gnostic is taken out of context or misinterpreted. Yes, he was into some secret/esoteric knowledge but love is still above.

And if I have prophetic powers, and understand all mysteries and all knowledge, and if I have all faith, so as to remove mountains, but have not love, I am nothing. (1 Cor 13:2)
Suggest to look at Pagels’s “Gnostic Paul” . Very good analysis of proto Valentinian Paul.
 

1213

Well-Known Member
...we are told that Jesus will always have His physical body.

By what the Bible tells, it was not exactly the same as normal physical body, because:

"Don't touch me, for I haven't yet ascended to my Father; but go to my brothers, and tell them, 'I am ascending to my Father and your Father, to my God and your God.'"… … When therefore it was evening, on that day, the first day of the week, and when the doors were locked where the disciples were assembled, for fear of the Jews, Jesus came and stood in the midst, and said to them, "Peace be to you."
John 20:17, 19

Because of that, it seems there is spiritual body that is little different than natural body.

It is sown a natural body; it is raised a spiritual body. There is a natural body and there is also a spiritual body.
1 Cor. 15:44
 

leov

Well-Known Member
By what the Bible tells, it was not exactly the same as normal physical body, because:

"Don't touch me, for I haven't yet ascended to my Father; but go to my brothers, and tell them, 'I am ascending to my Father and your Father, to my God and your God.'"… … When therefore it was evening, on that day, the first day of the week, and when the doors were locked where the disciples were assembled, for fear of the Jews, Jesus came and stood in the midst, and said to them, "Peace be to you."
John 20:17, 19

Because of that, it seems there is spiritual body that is little different than natural body.

It is sown a natural body; it is raised a spiritual body. There is a natural body and there is also a spiritual body.
1 Cor. 15:44
natural body in Greek means soul body vs spiritual body, bodies of different density, one of soul body can not get understanding of spiritual body (1 Cor 2) without enlightenment, that is the moment of resurrection of spiritually dead. That is what Valentinians received from Paul, soul - spirit division. The thing of Paul that of the most importance that is totally neglected by Constantine's church. Christ Jesus mentioned the same.
 
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