So What Happened To All The Changes, Tribulations, And Woe Jesus Had Promised?

sooda · Dec 4, 2019

3rdAngel said:
Your confused claiming to judge God and know the mind of God when you do not. Slavery happened in the Old Testament but was never God's purpose for mankind. It was a result of mankind work on mankind. Sometimes as a result of the spoils of war, sometimes of the result of people selling themselves to pay off dept and poverty to stay alive and have somewhere to eat and live. God does not support slavery Gods Word however historically records slavery which was a man made invention. There is also a difference between slavery (works for food and shelter) and being a servent (paid worker). God does not accept immoral conduct. All those who practice it and reject the gift of God's dear son will be destroyed at the second coming *Romans 6:23

Not really your leaving out context again. It was because of God's mercy that he put an end to cruelties of all those who were practicing cruelty in the time of the flood because they were practicing evil and cruelty against each other...

Genesis 6:5-7
5, And GOD SAW THAT THE WICKEDNESS OF MAN WAS GREAT IN THE EARTH, AND THAT EVERY IMAGINATION OF HIS HEART WAS ONLY EVIL CONTINUALLY.
6, And it repented the LORD that he had made man on the earth, and it grieved him at his heart.
7, And the LORD said, I will destroy man whom I have created from the face of the earth; both man, and beast, and the creeping thing, and the fowls of the air; for it repents me that I have made them.

God WARNED the Egyptians to let his people go *Exodus 4-14 . They did not listen and did not obey God's Word. Nothing has changed today. God is warning all mankind because he is not willing that anyone should perish but that all should come to repentance and be saved *2 Peter 3:9-13. Those who do not listen to God's warnings today, just like the Egyptians of yesterday will reap the consequnces of their own actions. God is not willing that any should perish and is a God of mercy to all those who believe and follow his Word.

Yep gotta love a God of mercy

God is outside of the laws of nature being the creator of it *GENESIS 1 and GENESIS 2.

"DITTO" God is outside of the laws of nature being the creator of it *GENESIS 1 and GENESIS 2.

I see you claim to be there when the world was made. Your claims hold no bounds and are only your words denying God's.

“Isaiah 17 predicted the destruction of the city, along with the destruction of the northern kingdom of Israel… Damascus was captured by Assyrians in 732 BC and the northern kingdom of Israel fell when the capital city of Samaria was captured by the Assyrians in 722 BC.”

And 100 years later, the prophet Jeremiah also predicted the fall of Damascus, which had been rebuilt, he added. “His message was fulfilled when the city was captured by Nebuchadnezzar of Babylon.”

The scriptures in Isaiah 17 never says that the city would not be rebuilt.

Yep gotta love history proving bible prophecy

Your welcome

Exodus is a myth.. Moses didn't even know the name of the pharaoh... never mind that Moses grew up in pharaoh's house.

This is why fundamentalists drive people away from Christianity.

ecco · Dec 4, 2019

3rdAngel said:
Yaaawwwnzzz.... Some are always learning but never able to come to a knowledge of the truth *2 Timothy 3:7 because they profess themselves wise only to become fools *Romans 1:22 According to the scriptures the fool says in his heart there is no God *Psalms 14:1. So who are you to say there is no God?

When you have no rational responses, quote scripture. There's a lot of that going around.

I see you didn't address this:
Your God really has a thing about His creations learning and having knowledge. He made that very clear from the onset when he tricked adam&Eve and then punished the rest of us.

I see you didn't address this:
You accuse historians of being biased. You blindly accept the bias of people writing religious stories to push their beliefs on the masses.

I see you didn't address this:
The fact that you refer to "good and evil" in a conversation about history is also very telling. "Good and Evil", God and Satan, Black and White. Life is a lot more complex than that. However, I do understand the appeal of such childlike simplicity.

I see you didn't address this:
What's wrong with trying to understand things one does not know about. If one does not pursue things one does not know about, one remains ignorant - like your God wanted. One thing I learned very early on is the difference between "your" and "you're".

I see you didn't address this:
That is the kind of thing that would be written in scripture by men who wanted to keep the ignorant sheeples ignorant. If the sheeples got some wisdom, they might begin to question why a God would want them to remain ignorant.

ecco · Dec 4, 2019

Tony Bristow-Stagg said:
For a Baha'i it is not an omission, it is always an inclusion, Names are not a barrier to what is the Spirit.

Jesus Christ is all the Messengers and so is Muhammad.

It is not the flesh we talk about, jesus said the flesh amounts to nothing.

Regards Tony

Once again, you answered. Once again, Trailblazer didn't.

I was asking Trailblazer because she wrote:
The Spirit of Christ did return at the end of the age and ushered in a new age in 1844.
From that, it appeared she did not consider Mohammed.

ecco · Dec 4, 2019

Trailblazer said:
This is not God doing a bad job job. God cannot do a bad job because God is All-Knowing, All-Wise, and Infallible...

So you admit that All-Knowing God knew that Adam & Eve, as He, the Infallible God created them, would go against His wishes regarding the Tree of Knowledge. He knew this before He created them. Then, hypocritically, He cursed them and all mankind to follow because they succumbed to the temptation of the serpent.

This is either your God doing a bad job or it is your evil God creating humans in order to torture them.

ecco · Dec 4, 2019

Trailblazer said:
Firstly, the God-inspired scripture was written by fallible men...
Secondly, fallible men then interpreted that scripture in every which way....we believe that the same man Jesus never promised to return to earth but rather Jesus said He would send His Spirit, the Comforter and the Spirit of Truth, which would appear in the form of another man.

Carefully read and understand what you just wrote...
"God-inspired scripture was written by fallible men";"fallible men then interpreted that scripture".

Yet, somehow, you put utter faith, trust, and belief into the writings of the fallible man...Ballulah.
Yet, somehow, you put utter faith, trust, and belief into the interpretations of the fallible men...Shogi Effendi and yourselves.

That really doesn't make very much sense.
If you realize that men writing holy words are fallible, why would you believe any of it?
If you realize that men reading and interpreting holy words are fallible, why would you believe any of it?

You put so much faith and trust into the writings and interpretations that you don't even question them. This isn't some mundane subject like whether or not King Arthur was real. This is about GOD and ETERNITY. Yet, somehow you think you have it right.

ecco · Dec 4, 2019

Trailblazer said:
Muhammad was the return of the Christ Spirit and He was a Comforter, but Baha'u'llah was "the Comforter" and the "Spirit of Truth" designated by Jesus in John 14, 15, and 16.

Your comment is interesting from several aspects. First, it is quite different from what Tony posted...

Tony Bristow-Stagg said:
Jesus Christ is all the Messengers and so is Muhammad.

Next, I've had discussions with Bahai's for the better part of the year. To my recollection, this is the first time the phrase "the Comforter" and the "Spirit of Truth" was used.

14You may ask me for anything in my name, and I will do it.15“If you love me, keep my commands. 16And I will ask the Father, and he will give you another advocate to help you and be with you forever— 17the Spirit of truth. The world cannot accept him, because it neither sees him nor knows him. But you know him, for he lives with you and will be in you.

Where does that indicate that "John" is referencing Ballulah and not Muhammed? In a previous post you admitted the Bible was written by fallible men. How can you be certain that J14-17 has any real meaning? That was rhetorical, you can't. You just wish it to be.

ecco · Dec 4, 2019

Trailblazer said:
Because I believe that Baha'u'llah was the return of the Christ Spirit, and I have evidence, since Baha'u'llah fulfilled all the prophecies for the return of Christ promised in the NT and He also fulfilled all the prophecies for the promised Messiah of the OT.

We've been through this before. Neither you, nor any Bahai, has shown any fulfilled prophecies. NONE!

ecco · Dec 4, 2019

3rdAngel said:
Yep gotta love bible history proving the bible

Funny. Do you even realize it's funny?

ecco · Dec 4, 2019

3rdAngel said:
God does not accept immoral conduct.

God knew before He created them that Adam & Eve would succumb to the temptations of the serpent. Yet God balmed Adam and Eve and cursed them and all their descendants.

3rdAngel said:
God does not accept immoral conduct.

God sent 1/3 of himself to impregnate a young virgin. Considering the power difference between the young virgin and God, this was clearly an act of Rape.

3rdAngel said:
God does not accept immoral conduct.

God horrifically killed all humans except eight. Men, women, children, fetuses, embryos.

Deceit
Rape
Genocide

I see you don't believe these things to be "immoral conduct".

TransmutingSoul · Dec 4, 2019

ecco said:
Once again, you answered. Once again, Trailblazer didn't.

I was asking Trailblazer because she wrote:
The Spirit of Christ did return at the end of the age and ushered in a new age in 1844.
From that, it appeared she did not consider Mohammed.

Then now you know the Baha'i Writings are inclusive of Muhammad, who to a Baha'i, is One with all of God's Messengers and in that station are the 'Self of God' amongst us.

As a man like us, they bring a distinct Message;

".. The measure of the revelation of the Prophets of God in this world, however, must differ. Each and every one of them hath been the Bearer of a distinct Message, and hath been commissioned to reveal Himself through specific acts…"

Regards Tony

TransmutingSoul · Dec 4, 2019

ecco said:
We've been through this before. Neither you, nor any Bahai, has shown any fulfilled prophecies. NONE!

Or the other thought is, that very few have seen prophecy unfold as God has intended and shown it to be.

Confirmed by the Bible, many are called, few are chosen.

It is always our choice and yet many still wait for Christ.

Regards Tony

3rdAngel · Dec 4, 2019

sooda said:
You have to embrace ignorance and reject education to be a fundamentalist.

I would say this applies to all those who reject God's Word.

TransmutingSoul · Dec 4, 2019

ecco said:
Your comment is interesting from several aspects. First, it is quite different from what Tony posted...

Next, I've had discussions with Bahai's for the better part of the year. To my recollection, this is the first time the phrase "the Comforter" and the "Spirit of Truth" was used.

14You may ask me for anything in my name, and I will do it.15“If you love me, keep my commands. 16And I will ask the Father, and he will give you another advocate to help you and be with you forever— 17the Spirit of truth. The world cannot accept him, because it neither sees him nor knows him. But you know him, for he lives with you and will be in you.

Where does that indicate that "John" is referencing Ballulah and not Muhammed? In a previous post you admitted the Bible was written by fallible men. How can you be certain that J14-17 has any real meaning? That was rhetorical, you can't. You just wish it to be.

The passage is applicable to Muhammad and the Bab and then finds fulfilment in Baha'u'llah, as this is that 'Day of God' when all we could not understand is now been revealed.

Regards Tony

TransmutingSoul · Dec 4, 2019

ecco said:
Where does that indicate that "John" is referencing Ballulah and not Muhammed? In a previous post you admitted the Bible was written by fallible men. How can you be certain that J14-17 has any real meaning? That was rhetorical, you can't. You just wish it to be.

I do not wish it to be, as it is the Message of Baha'u'llah, who has proclaimed loud and clear as to who He was.

I have researched what was said and I see that the claim is true.

I can post those quotes, but they have been posted on RF before.

Regards Tony

3rdAngel · Dec 4, 2019

ecco said:
When you have no rational responses, quote scripture. There's a lot of that going around.

As posted earlier you were posted rational responses you simply do not understand them because you do not know God.

ecco said:
I see you didn't address this: Your God really has a thing about His creations learning and having knowledge. He made that very clear from the onset when he tricked adam&Eve and then punished the rest of us.

What is there to address? He did not trick anyone. Your lack of understanding and ignorance is showing because you do not know God or his Word.

ecco said:
I see you didn't address this: You accuse historians of being biased. You blindly accept the bias of people writing religious stories to push their beliefs on the masses.

What is there to address? I did not say every historian is biased I said that history outside of biblical history can be biased depending on who is writing it and whos side of the coin they follow. All I am hearing from you are empty claims that have no truth in them.

ecco said:
I see you didn't address this: The fact that you refer to "good and evil" in a conversation about history is also very telling. "Good and Evil", God and Satan, Black and White. Life is a lot more complex than that. However, I do understand the appeal of such childlike simplicity.

Why is there to address? These are simply your words showing your lack of understanding of the scriptures and your ignorance of Gods' Word because you do not know God.

ecco said:
I see you didn't address this: What's wrong with trying to understand things one does not know about. If one does not pursue things one does not know about, one remains ignorant - like your God wanted.

What is there to address? This is something you talk about but do not pratice. This is therefore a hypacritical statement which only shows your ignorance of Gods' Word because you do not know God.

ecco said:
I see you didn't address this: That is the kind of thing that would be written in scripture by men who wanted to keep the ignorant sheeples ignorant. If the sheeples got some wisdom, they might begin to question why a God would want them to remain ignorant.

What is there to address? These are simply your words denying God's Word that only shows your ignorance of Gods' Word because you do not know God. Yep there is nothing to address. Please let me know when you wish to have an intelligent conversation

PS...

I see you didn't address this: Yaaawwwnzzz....

Some are always learning but never able to come to a knowledge of the truth *2 Timothy 3:7 because they profess themselves wise only to become fools *Romans 1:22 According to the scriptures the fool says in his heart there is no God *Psalms 14:1. So who are you to say there is no God?

3rdAngel · Dec 4, 2019

sooda said:
Exodus is a myth.. Moses didn't even know the name of the pharaoh... never mind that Moses grew up in pharaoh's house. This is why fundamentalists drive people away from Christianity.

Yes indeed, everything is a myth for those who do not believe and follow God's Word. This was the view of those who lived in the time of the flood and Sodom and Gomorrah. There is nothing new here. So will it be just before the second coming. What all the above have in common is that they all find out too late they were wrong and what they missed out on because they did not believe God's Word.

3rdAngel · Dec 4, 2019

ecco said:
God knew before He created them that Adam & Eve would succumb to the temptations of the serpent. Yet God balmed Adam and Eve and cursed them and all their descendants.

I do not think God balmed anyone (whatever that means). We all have free will to believe and follow God's Word by faith or not. God does not force our allegience to him. Adam and Eve were warned from the very beggining not to eat of the fruit of the knowledge of good and evil and that if they do eat of it they would surely die. God knowing the end from the beggining in his mercy knew what they would do and made a way of escape for them and to all those who believe and follow him. Those who do not however reap the consequences of their own actions as we all will.

ecco said:
God sent 1/3 of himself to impregnate a young virgin. Considering the power difference between the young virgin and God, this was clearly an act of Rape.

Not at all. God so loved the world that he sent his only begotten son that whosoever believed in him should not perish but have everlasting life. For God sent not his Son into the world to condemn the world; but that the world through him might be saved. He that believes on him is not condemned: but he that believes not is condemned already, because he has not believed in the name of the only begotten Son of God. And this is the condemnation, that light is come into the world, and men loved darkness rather than light, because their deeds were evil. For every one that does evil hates the light, neither comes to the light, lest his deeds should be reproved. You refuse to come to the light because you do not believe.

ecco said:
God horrifically killed all humans except eight. Men, women, children, fetuses, embryos. Deceit Rape Genocide I see you don't believe these things to be "immoral conduct".

All you have provided is repitition and falsehood. This is already addressed elsewhere and in post # 117 linked. I see you do not see God's mercy. I guess this is because some were told by the one who knows all things; Hearing you shall hear, and shall not understand; and seeing you shall see, and not perceive: this was because of a waxed heart that had no feelings that effected the eyes and the ears which confused the understanding. This was the delusion that all fall into that kick against the pricks and have lost their mirror. Their lamp was a guide to them but they did not have enough oil. Their lamp then went out and now they sit in darkness but you will not know what any of this means as the scriptures say: always learning but never able to come to a knowledge of the truth.

ecco · Dec 4, 2019

Tony Bristow-Stagg said:
Confirmed by the Bible, many are called, few are chosen.

So, no fulfilled prophecies is the fault of the eye of the beholder.

The stories you make up to continue to justify your beliefs are truly amazing.

ecco · Dec 4, 2019

3rdAngel said:
As posted earlier you were posted rational responses you simply do not understand them because you do not know God.

I suppose that kind of comment might work when you have discussions with fellow fundies or with five year old atheists.

It's just another variation of "you can't see because your eyes are closed". In other words, it's male bovine feces. I've seen years of it from indoctrinated fundamentalists.

ecco · Dec 4, 2019

3rdAngel said:
What is there to address? He did not trick anyone. Your lack of understanding and ignorance is showing because you do not know God or his Word.

Sure He did. He knew A&E would succumb to the serpent's temptation long before He ever made them. Then He blamed them and cursed them. Don't you even understand your own scripture?

So What Happened To All The Changes, Tribulations, And Woe Jesus Had Promised?

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