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Why I'm No Longer "Anti-Religious" and the Dangers of Bitterness

Debater Slayer

Vipassana
Staff member
Premium Member
Since this post is almost entirely about a personal experience, I figured Journals fit it best.

A few months ago, I decided to have a look at some ex-Muslim forums to see if our shared religious background and deconversion could lead to friendship and positive discussions.

And boy was I wrong. While a few people here and there on such forums did seem pretty reasonable and friendly, the overall atmosphere I encountered was ironically similar to that of a fundamentalist, fanatic religious circle: overgeneralizations, simplistic thinking of religion as a monolithic entity, flat-out hate speech targeting religious people, misunderstanding of religious texts (sometimes willful) to paint religion as the ultimate evil in the world, and bitterness that clearly shapes many of the comments within those venues.

Now, far be it from me to say that I don't understand why someone who has experienced bigotry and abuse due to religious fundamentalism would be upset at a specific religion or religions. In fact, I also understand why a religious person in, say, China or North Korea could be similarly upset at atheism. But to have so little self-awareness that one lets this lead them to bigotry and hatred of their own is inconsistent and ironic at best.

Furthermore, I have found after years of harboring anti-religious sentiments that the kinds of bitterness, resentment, and generalization required to sustain such an outlook are not just toxic to moderate and compassionate religious people but also to the people harboring them. Bitterness creates baggage that only the person harboring it has to live with. It also doesn't seem reasonable to cling to after meeting more open-minded and friendly religious people that differ from the majority of those from one's background or culture of origin.

One of my biggest thought-provoking moments was when I met an LGBT woman I had befriended online and then later found out she was a Muslim. Unlike most Muslims where I'm from, she's pro-LGBT, feminist, and supportive of religious tolerance even for groups like atheists and anti-theists. It got me thinking that for any reasonable secularist or atheist, supporting people like her and helping them promote their peaceful interpretations of religion is far more productive and rational than simply saying that they're only the way they are because of not being "religious enough" or being "ignorant of their religion."

I believe an anti-religious or anti-theistic phase may be an important part of personal growth for some people, just as an anti-atheist phase could be. The keyword here is "phase," however--anytime such a bitter, resentful outlook extends beyond being temporary, it leads to more hatred, misunderstanding, and overgeneralization... and I don't think the world needs any more of these things.

And that's why I no longer identify as anti-religious, why I'm not on any ex-Muslim forums, and also why I don't feel much sense of fellowship when I look at specific online circles and see problematic sentiments like the ones I mentioned above. Nowadays I consider myself against harmful teachings and beliefs, which I view as only a subset of specific religious interpretations (and a subset of many secular ideologies too) rather than the whole of religion.
 
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Hockeycowboy

Witness for Jehovah
Premium Member
Good for you! It seems you’ve achieved a measure of personal growth!

It is always good to re-evaluate ourselves, and make changes to our behavior. Especially toward other people.

IMO
 

Left Coast

This Is Water
Staff member
Premium Member
As a frequent critic of religion on this forum, I'd much rather the world be filled with religious progressives than atheist right-wingers. Kudos on moving beyond bitterness. :greenheart:
 

Laika

Well-Known Member
Premium Member
Since this post is almost entirely about a personal experience, I figured Journals fit it best.

A few months ago, I decided to have a look at some ex-Muslim forums to see if our shared religious background and deconversion could lead to friendship and positive discussions.

And boy was I wrong. While a few people here and there on such forums did seem pretty reasonable and friendly, the overall atmosphere I encountered was ironically similar to that of a fundamentalist, fanatic religious circle: overgeneralizations, simplistic thinking of religion as a monolithic entity, flat-out hate speech targeting religious people, misunderstanding of religious texts (sometimes willful) to paint religion as the ultimate evil in the world, and bitterness that clearly shapes many of the comments within those venues.

Now, far be it from me to say that I don't understand why someone who has experienced bigotry and abuse due to religious fundamentalism would be upset at a specific religion or religions. In fact, I also understand why a religious person in, say, China or North Korea could be similarly upset at atheism. But to have so little self-awareness that one lets this lead them to bigotry and hatred of their own is inconsistent and ironic at best.

Furthermore, I have found after years of harboring anti-religious sentiments that the kinds of bitterness, resentment, and generalization required to sustain such an outlook are not just toxic to moderate and compassionate religious people but also to the people harboring them. Bitterness creates baggage that only the person harboring it has to live with. It also doesn't seem reasonable to cling to after meeting more open-minded and friendly religious people that differ from the majority of those from one's background or culture of origin.

One of my biggest thought-provoking moments was when I met an LGBT woman I had befriended online and then later found out she was a Muslim. Unlike most Muslims where I'm from, she's pro-LGBT, feminist, and supportive of religious tolerance even for groups like atheists and anti-theists. It got me thinking that for any reasonable secularist or atheist, supporting people like her and helping them promote their peaceful interpretations of religion is far more productive and rational than simply saying that they're only the way they are because of not being "religious enough" or being "ignorant of their religion."

I believe an anti-religious or anti-theistic phase may be an important part of personal growth for some people, just as an anti-atheist phase could be. The keyword here is "phase," however--anytime such a bitter, resentful outlook extends beyond being temporary, it leads to more hatred, misunderstanding, and overgeneralization... and I don't think the world needs any more of these things.

And that's why I no longer identify as anti-religious, why I'm not on any ex-Muslim forums, and also why I don't feel much sense of fellowship when I look at specific online circles and see problematic sentiments like the ones I mentioned above. Nowadays I consider myself against harmful teachings and beliefs, which I view as only a subset of specific religious interpretations (and a subset of many secular ideologies too) rather than the whole of religion.

In your own way you've been on the front lines of the struggle for secularism in the Islamic world and have had to deal with personal struggles with friends and family. You've had to fight battles that the rest of us on this site, living in the relative safety of western democracies (albeit dysfunctional as they are) haven't had to deal with. You've wanted to leave your own country so that you can simply be safe to hold the beliefs you hold.

It's worth keeping in mind that, for all the things you may have said and done, there were limits to how far you were willing to go in being anti-religious because you continued to respect individual liberty. At worst, you wanted to call out the hypocrisy and dishonesty of the people who hurt and betrayed you rather than wanting to hurt them yourself. Whatever you may have thought privately, and we all have dark moments to deal with, it was the cry of someone in pain who wanted to be loved and respected for who they are and to be treated with dignity.

To feel forced in to a conflict of loyalties as intimate as that, it is both very understandable and very human to feel a deep sense of bitterness about it. You were hurt by the people closest to you. You have nothing to be ashamed of and the fact you have come to this conclusion is testament to your character. You decided not to swap one kind of fundamentalism for another, so you should be very proud of yourself.

And if you're not, I certainly am. Best of luck to you and keep up the good fight! :)

:hugehug:
 

Mock Turtle

Oh my, did I say that!
Premium Member
As you have pointed out, anti-religious beliefs can all too often come across as offensive and hateful, which I hope I don't come across as being. Your last sentence seems to encapsulate my position.

I would see myself as more irreligious (but not all the way), although this usually translates so often as anti-religious. And my antipathy is mainly towards the more negative aspects (as I see them) of some religions. Apart from that, I of course know that most of those having a religious belief are just as normal as those not having such, and I wouldn't want to discriminate or view them differently on any such basis.

As I've often said, I believe that those having such beliefs should be as free to practice as they see fit - as long as such doesn't seriously affect others - and in some cases (naming none) it unfortunately does. I've basically tried to ignore religions (not seeing them as having any value in my own life) but obviously this is not possible, given the effects they have all around the world. This is where I have some issues.

I suppose I had an easy life in this respect, that I didn't have parents or culture trying to enforce a particular religion on me, and I seemed to have come to a natural conclusion that religions were not for me when anything I needed would likely come from elsewhere - which has been the case. I of course know that others have come to different conclusions, and if such satisfies them, who am I to question as to how or why they arrived at such.

So, much like youself and no doubt many others with no religious beliefs, it hardly helps to be so antagonistic towards large numbers of individuals, especially when we are all in the dark so often.
 

HonestJoe

Well-Known Member
A few months ago, I decided to have a look at some ex-Muslim forums to see if our shared religious background and deconversion could lead to friendship and positive discussions.

And boy was I wrong. While a few people here and there on such forums did seem pretty reasonable and friendly, the overall atmosphere I encountered was ironically similar to that of a fundamentalist, fanatic religious circle: overgeneralizations, simplistic thinking of religion as a monolithic entity, flat-out hate speech targeting religious people, misunderstanding of religious texts (sometimes willful) to paint religion as the ultimate evil in the world, and bitterness that clearly shapes many of the comments within those venues.
I believe that is what is technically called "the human race".

Seriously, we're generally bad at that kind of thing, easily led, slow to change ingrained opinions and even slower to admit those changes, to ourselves let alone each other. And of course, the same problem means we're often not very good at helping each other make progress.
 
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