What will you give for your life?

Alone said:

Yes I understand that, you probably will not agree with me on this and that's okay however if you are willing to die for A cause essentially that is suicide, especially if you know the cause will take your life beforehand.

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The difference, is that a martyr is willing to die for the cause. The suicidal is just wanting to die. Typically, one goes out to forward the cause one is willing to die for in the hopes they live, but have made peace with the possibility they won't.

nyRednek said:

The difference, is that a martyr is willing to die for the cause. The suicidal is just wanting to die. Typically, one goes out to forward the cause one is willing to die for in the hopes they live, but have made peace with the possibility they won't.

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Consider these words out of the Lord's mouth
17 Therefore doth my Father love me, because I lay down my life, that I might take it again.

18 No man taketh it from me, but I lay it down of myself. I have power to lay it down, and I have power to take it again. This commandment have I received of my Father.

Alone said:

Consider the Monk it was on YouTube many years back he stood in the Town square and as he professed his faith in the name of his God he let himself on fire. In the monks mind he just died a martyr in the name of his God, in the mind of the viewers outside looking in they probably thought he was just some crazy guy. So who's right? It's all a matter of perspective.

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The problem with his martyrdom as well as the "Shahada" of a person who sets off a suicide vest is such: You weren't murdered for your faith, you committed a murder for your faith, namely the murder of yourself.

Alone said:

Consider these words out of the Lord's mouth
17 Therefore doth my Father love me, because I lay down my life, that I might take it again.

18 No man taketh it from me, but I lay it down of myself. I have power to lay it down, and I have power to take it again. This commandment have I received of my Father.

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I don't doubt that text is in the Bible, but can you give me a citation so I can look for context?

nyRednek said:

The problem with his martyrdom as well as the "Shahada" of a person who sets off a suicide vest is such: You weren't murdered for your faith, you committed a murder for your faith, namely the murder of yourself.

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Right and I totally understand exactly what you're saying but I'm looking at this from a different perspective the Lord spacifically said that no man takes his life, which means no man killed him, in essence he had the power to allow them to kill him. It's like I said you probably would not agree with me. and of course yes the monk committed suicide I was only trying to open your mind up to a different perspective the monk really truly believed that he was a martyr whether he was right or wrong makes no difference to him he was right.

Alone said:

Right and I totally understand exactly what you're saying but I'm looking at this from a different perspective the Lord spacifically said that no man takes his life, which means no man killed him, in essence he had the power to allow them to kill him. It's like I said you probably would not agree with me. and of course yes the monk committed suicide I was only trying to open your mind up to a different perspective the monk really truly believed that he was a martyr whether he was right or wrong makes no difference to him he was right.

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While I understand his perspective, I'm attempting to see it from a more objective point of view.

nyRednek said:

While I understand his perspective, I'm attempting to see it from a more objective point of view.

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Okay that's cool thanks for your comments

ChristineM said:

Wouldn't give anything for it, we all have to die sometime, why pay for the privilege?

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perhaps the question you answered was not aimed correctly

what would you do?....to gain eternal life

Neuropteron said:

Mal 3:10 "Bring all the tenth part' (symbolic fo doing God's requirements.
"test me out...whether I shall not open to you people the floodgates of the heavens and actually empty out upon you a blessing until there is no more want"

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This certainly isn’t true of Jehovah’s Witnesses who are generally amongst the lower wage earners. Either that or JWs are adjusting their “wants” ie shrinking their wants to fit the abysmal blessing they have received after their “test” of God.

Thief said:

perhaps the question you answered was not aimed correctly

what would you do?....to gain eternal life

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It was understood.

Life ends in brain death, the first lawn of thermodynamics takes care of what is left over.

ChristineM said:

It was understood.

Life ends in brain death, the first lawn of thermodynamics takes care of what is left over.

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One would think that this is mostly a debate of interpretation of scripture. Being such, an irreverent post denying the validity of such would be trolling, wouldn't it? Correct me if I'm wrong, but I don't hit you over the head with a cross as you're discussing Nietzche.

nyRednek said:

One would think that this is mostly a debate of interpretation of scripture. Being such, an irreverent post denying the validity of such would be trolling, wouldn't it? Correct me if I'm wrong, but I don't hit you over the head with a cross as you're discussing Nietzche.

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Facts are facts, and i was asked a question. You may believe what you want and post your thoughts, please allow me the same courtesy.

P.s. i dont discuss Nietzche, ever, so consider yourself wrong on that snipe

ChristineM said:

Facts are facts, and i was asked a question. You may believe what you want and post your thoughts, please allow me the same courtesy.

P.s. i dont discuss Nietzche, ever, so consider yourself wrong on that snipe

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Details may be off, but the rebuke remains valid.

nyRednek said:

Details may be off, but the rebuke remains valid.

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Yes the details were well off.

And i was unaware that i was not entitled to my opinion, even when that opinion is factual as opposed to bronze age best guess.

nyRednek said:

While I understand his perspective, I'm attempting to see it from a more objective point of view.

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so somewhere in the middle of the night last night I thought about our little discussion and decided I would do some research on it. This is what I found



Article ID: DE199 | By: Darrel W. Amundsen and Joni Eareckson Tada



Summary



Studies of suicide typically classify martyrdom as suicide. This, coupled with theological and historical ignorance, results in depictions of early Christians as morbidly obsessed with death and prone to take their own lives if unable to provoke pagans to kill them. This position is reflected in a Michigan judge’s recent ruling in the case of Dr. Jack Kevorkian. Liberal theologians have now so amplified the misinformation that one advocate of doctor-assisted suicide exclaims, on the dust jacket of a recent publication, “This book will upset traditional Christian views about the right to choose to die.” As states consider legalizing doctor-assisted suicide, the historical distortions that have now become part of the legal record in the Kevorkian case may well become a factor in public discussion and debate.



Many Christians, as well as others, assume that the Bible and church history have consistently condemned self-murder, or what is commonly known as suicide.1 However, because this assumption generally has not been defended with great rigor, most people who accept this assumption are not prepared to support it when it is called into question.



Recently some scholars have argued that the Christian tradition has not always condemned suicide and that martyrdom is a form of suicide which has been applauded in church history. This distortion is being offered by judges as well as historians as a basis to support the cause of doctor-assisted suicide, made popular in recent years by the work of Michigan pathologist Jack Kevorkian. It has become crucial that Christians, as well as other pro-lifers, be prepared to respond to this pseudohistory.



Secular activists in the right-to-die movement typically campaign for a right of the ill to procure the assistance of others (usually physicians) in expediting their deaths. This is an issue that expanding numbers of voters are facing and on which judges are increasingly asked to rule.
I couldn't put the whole article on here because it was too big, however after reading it I'm not sure where I stand now?

Left Coast said:

So wait, you're interpreting the requirement symbolically, is the "blessing" symbolic too?

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The literal tenth is no longer a requirement for Christians since it was part of the law given to the Israelites. Otherwise a Christian would have to literally give 10% of his earnings to the church.

Nonetheless the principle of the law still applies."Let each one do just as he has resolved in his heart, not grudgingly or under compulsion, for God loves a cheerul giver".(2 Cor 9:7)

Thus the "giving" is not set by law (and not necessarily money) but according to our circumstances and inclination. It is nonetheless real giving, and so is the blessing.

Neuropteron said:

The literal tenth is no longer a requirement for Christians since it was part of the law given to the Israelites. Otherwise a Christian would have to literally give 10% of his earnings to the church.

Nonetheless the principle of the law still applies."Let each one do just as he has resolved in his heart, not grudgingly or under compulsion, for God loves a cheerul giver".(2 Cor 9:7)

Thus the "giving" is not set by law (and not necessarily money) but according to our circumstances and inclination. It is nonetheless real giving, and so is the blessing.

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I see, so what tangible blessing would I get, and how would I know it's from God?

ChristineM said:

It was understood.

Life ends in brain death, the first lawn of thermodynamics takes care of what is left over.

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maybe the grass is greener on the other side of dying

Thief said:

maybe the grass is greener on the other side of dying

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You are entitled to your beliefs.

Left Coast said:

I see, so what tangible blessing would I get, and how would I know it's from God?

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What might seem a simple question is actually a very complex one. Any answer will shed light on only a small part of this subject.

For a start God is not an equal, we cannot barter or trade our obedience or our material possessions for a specific blessing.
We can of course ask for it, but the decision to give us what we want is his.
The reason for this is not mysterious, it is explained in the Bible (but is another subject).

In that sense when God promises his "blessing until there is no more want", that promise is, at least for the immediate point in time, all the information we get.

However, If we wanted to pinpoint an immediate and specific blessing we could safely state that God will help us to endure any trial we have to face, strengthen us to stay faithful to him and protect us from “lasting” harm.(Ez 34:15)

We should also keep in mind that the very breath we take is due to the fact the he sustains our life and that in extension everything that is we have is due to this.

However his blessings for the future are more explicit. (Rev 21:3)