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Did Paul misquote scripture on purpose?

Rival

Si m'ait Dieus
Staff member
Premium Member
You may not understand this or you may, as I read through Ezekiel 18 it brings me to tears, cuz it tells me over and over and over turn from repent repent cast off your transgressions don't sin, and yet I have no idea how to do that. It sounds simple enough but finding practical application is my problem?
Find a quiet place - a woods... a field... a lake... your bedroom at preferably dusk or dark, and just pour your heart out to G-d.

Apologise. Finally say all the things you've bottled up, shake your conscience...


But not for longer than an hour or so.

It doesn't do to dwell on one's problems, but be happy.

Just be happy :)
 

Alone

Banned by request
I totally understand what you're saying, and believe it or not I have cried out on many occasions, I guess I could be deceiving myself into thinking I was sorry, however I am miserable because of my sin state, it's hard for me to be happy when I know I am doing things that are displeasing to God, and to take it a step further my "free will?" Post elaborates more on this.
 

Rival

Si m'ait Dieus
Staff member
Premium Member
I totally understand what you're saying, and believe it or not I have cried out on many occasions, I guess I could be deceiving myself into thinking I was sorry, however I am miserable because of my sin state, it's hard for me to be happy when I know I am doing things that are displeasing to God, and to take it a step further my "free will?" Post elaborates more on this.
Once you've repented, dance.

G-d did not intend his creatures to be unhappy.
 

Alone

Banned by request
That's just it, I can say I'm sorry over and over and over, and ask for forgiveness over and over and over, however if my understanding is accurate repentance is an action "to turn from" this is my issue turning from is becoming more of a challenge than I had expected therefore there is no victory dance as of this moment.
 

Wandering Monk

Well-Known Member
Don't set the bar so high you will never be able to clear it. Set reasonable goals. When you achieve the goal you will realize that you can succeed. Why not get caught in and upward spiral rather than a downward one?
 

Rival

Si m'ait Dieus
Staff member
Premium Member
That's just it, I can say I'm sorry over and over and over, and ask for forgiveness over and over and over, however if my understanding is accurate repentance is an action "to turn from" this is my issue turning from is becoming more of a challenge than I had expected therefore there is no victory dance as of this moment.
Strop trying to be perfect, and start trying to be you. It's a happiness dance, you need to stay happy; no need to dwell on your faults; do what you're good at and be content.
 

Alone

Banned by request
And who am I that I am supposed to be? Because I don't know who I am, other than just another human being on this planet.
 

Spartan

Well-Known Member
Now let's look at Scripture and take notice of whom God deems most worthy of His benefits of grace, and mercy. Let's start with Noah.

So the Lord said, "I will destroy man whom I have created from the face of the earth, both man and beast, creeping thing and birds of the air, for I regret that I have made them." But Noah found GRACE in the eyes of the Lord. This is the genealogy of Noah. Noah was a just man, perfect in his generations. Noah walked with God. Genesis 6:7-9

Then the Lord said to Noah, "Come into the ark, you and all your household, BECAUSE I have seen that you are righteous before Me in this generation. Genesis 7:1

No one else on earth found grace or mercy from God except one man and his family because he was "just" and "righteous"! Contrary to Paul's doctrine, becoming a beneficiary of God's grace has everything to do with works. Grace and works are not mutually exclusive. They are inextricably connected to one another. There is more.

Noah was righteous by faith (Genesis 15:6), not by works.

And if you want works, then do this: Jesus answered, “The work of God is this: to believe in the one he has sent.” - John 6:29.

Of course, once you believe you're justified by grace through faith in Jesus Christ.

Finally, where's the works of the thief on the cross, whom Jesus said would be with him today in paradise?
 

Alone

Banned by request
Well I guess this will sound crazy but trying to achieve perfection is the adventure I'm wanting to choose, all I'm really looking for is suggestions and or help with achieving this so-called impossible task that is commanded by God, I do not feel that I have set the standard but the standard has been set before me, so now I'm just trying to figure out how to do it? Because bottom line is I'm not really good at anything and I have absolutely no motivation to be anyting so basically this is all I have left. Kind of frustrating to say the least and if I fail till I die then I guess I died trying,
 

Alone

Banned by request
In my mind trying to be perfect is not about being saved but about doing what I'm told, I don't know why this topic always goes back to this same thing has nothing to do with salvation I'll be saved if God says so. does it matter what I do or don't do? According to the book it does matter what I do or don't do. Not only that the word "believe" is a very hard word to define, man doesn't believe just because he says he believes. Example if I say I went the Moon it doesn't mean I went to the moon just because I said it.
 

Salvador

RF's Swedenborgian
Paul abused Scripture by taking passages out of context and giving them meanings that were never intended!

To proof-text his doctrine, Paul lifted numerous Scripture passages out of their context and gave them meanings that were never intended. Some of these passages he gave a meaning that the context absolutely nullifies. The following is one classic example:

One of Paul’s unique and fundamental doctrines states that absolutely no one is righteous. To proof-text his doctrine Paul cuts and pastes together no less than 7 snippets of Scripture and presents them as one:

“There is none righteous, no, not one. There is none who seeks after God. They have all gone out of the way. They have together become unprofitable. There is none who does good, no, not one. Their throat is an open tomb; with their tongues they have practiced deceit. The poison of asps is under their lips; whose mouth is full of cursing and bitterness. Their feet are swift to shed blood. Destruction and misery are in their ways; and the way of peace they have not known. There is no fear of God before their eyes.” Romans 3:10-18

Each of every one of these snippets Paul took out of context and gave a meaning that its author never intended. The first snippet is our example of how Paul gave a meaning to a passage that only a verse or two later the author says something that completely destroys what Paul said about it. It was taken from Psalm 14. David here begins by speaking specifically of “fools”, who say in their heart “there is no God”.
The fool has said in his heart, “There is no God.” They are corrupt, they have done abominable works, there is none who does good. The Lord looks down from heaven upon the children of men, to see if there are any who understand, who seek God. They have all turned aside, they have together become corrupt. There is none who does good, no, not one. Psalm 14:1-3


David is in no way referring to every human being with the term “the children of men”. He is speaking of the fools who say there is no God and is referring specifically to them as the children of men. It is among these that he says there is none righteous. We know this because he goes on to contrast these children of men with those he calls the generation of the righteous!
Have all the workers of iniquity no knowledge, who eat up MY people as they eat bread, and do not call on the Lord? There they are in great fear, for God is
with the generation of the righteous
. Psalm 14:4-5

Imagine that, ... “the generation of THE RIGHTEOUS”!! Paul didn’t tell us about this part of the Psalm! So much for his doctrine that no one is righteous.

Some Christians such as I do consider Paul to be a false apostle. He is not in the Swedenborg canon. It should be noted that the book of Romans or other books written by Paul are not included in the list of books that, according to Swedenborg, constitute the divinely inspired Biblical canon listed in Arcana Coelestia 10,325, White Horse 16, and New Jerusalem and its Heavenly Doctrine 266.

Heaven and Hell (Swedenborg book) - Wikipedia
 

74x12

Well-Known Member
Paul abused Scripture by taking passages out of context and giving them meanings that were never intended!

To proof-text his doctrine, Paul lifted numerous Scripture passages out of their context and gave them meanings that were never intended. Some of these passages he gave a meaning that the context absolutely nullifies. The following is one classic example:

One of Paul’s unique and fundamental doctrines states that absolutely no one is righteous. To proof-text his doctrine Paul cuts and pastes together no less than 7 snippets of Scripture and presents them as one:

“There is none righteous, no, not one. There is none who seeks after God. They have all gone out of the way. They have together become unprofitable. There is none who does good, no, not one. Their throat is an open tomb; with their tongues they have practiced deceit. The poison of asps is under their lips; whose mouth is full of cursing and bitterness. Their feet are swift to shed blood. Destruction and misery are in their ways; and the way of peace they have not known. There is no fear of God before their eyes.” Romans 3:10-18

Each of every one of these snippets Paul took out of context and gave a meaning that its author never intended. The first snippet is our example of how Paul gave a meaning to a passage that only a verse or two later the author says something that completely destroys what Paul said about it. It was taken from Psalm 14. David here begins by speaking specifically of “fools”, who say in their heart “there is no God”.
The fool has said in his heart, “There is no God.” They are corrupt, they have done abominable works, there is none who does good. The Lord looks down from heaven upon the children of men, to see if there are any who understand, who seek God. They have all turned aside, they have together become corrupt. There is none who does good, no, not one. Psalm 14:1-3


David is in no way referring to every human being with the term “the children of men”. He is speaking of the fools who say there is no God and is referring specifically to them as the children of men. It is among these that he says there is none righteous. We know this because he goes on to contrast these children of men with those he calls the generation of the righteous!
Have all the workers of iniquity no knowledge, who eat up MY people as they eat bread, and do not call on the Lord? There they are in great fear, for God is
with the generation of the righteous
. Psalm 14:4-5

Imagine that, ... “the generation of THE RIGHTEOUS”!! Paul didn’t tell us about this part of the Psalm! So much for his doctrine that no one is righteous.
I don't agree. In Psalm 14 God is speaking of all children of men. Not just those who say there is no God. The Psalmist singled them out but included all humans as not seeking God in verses 2-3.

However the "generation of the righteous" are those who are taken out of this world by God's grace. They're not to be considered righteous on their own. But as by what God has done for them and in them. But the rest of the world continues in their own ways and is blind to who the generation of the righteous are and to who God is. (1 John 3:1-6)

It's not good for anyone to consider themselves righteous. It is someone saying I am good on my own. I don't need God. Yet it was the blood of Jesus that cleanses people from sin. They're basically handing Jesus back the beautiful white wedding garment He wants to give them and they're putting on filthy rags which they are proud of as if it is real righteousness.

Even in Isaiah 64:4-7 we find that no one is righteous. Our righteousness is as filthy(menstrual) rags.

Jesus said there is none good but one; that is God. (Matthew 19:17)
 

Alone

Banned by request
Wow this has become an interesting post. This is the first time I have heard any one or more than one say that a man that was deemed worthy by God and the son of God via the holy ghost, to be accused of being a false apostle, the first time I picked up the book it never occurred to me that he was a false apostle is it because he persecuted the church before his Revelation or conversion rather?
 

Alone

Banned by request
The book of Acts as recorded by Luke is the account and story of Paul, I thought that this was a beautiful picture of the grace and mercy that God can show on any particular individual. That being said if Paul is a false apostle then we would also have to say that Luke is a false apostle because he wrote of the account, therefore basically most of the New testament is not worthy to be read seeing's Paul wrote a large portion of it, so where does that leave us now? Not to mention Acts and the Gospel of Luke are those also false doctrines?
 
The book of Acts as recorded by Luke is the account and story of Paul, I thought that this was a beautiful picture of the grace and mercy that God can show on any particular individual. That being said if Paul is a false apostle then we would also have to say that Luke is a false apostle because he wrote of the account, therefore basically most of the New testament is not worthy to be read seeing's Paul wrote a large portion of it, so where does that leave us now? Not to mention Acts and the Gospel of Luke are those also false doctrines?


Of the 22 times in the Bible where Paul is referred to as an "apostle", only twice is he referred to as an apostle by someone other than himself! These two instances came from the same person. Not from Yeshua, or any of the original apostles, but from Paul's close traveling companion and personal press secretary Luke. Both accounts are found in Luke's record of the Acts of the Apostles, (chapter 14:4,14). Here Paul is referred to as an apostle along with Barnabas. By this time in the story, Luke would have been very accustomed to Paul calling himself an apostle, and he would no doubt have been in agreement with Paul's assessment of himself. By these statistics alone, it is evident that Paul is by far his own biggest fan... and his side kick Luke was his number two fan. This leaves no one else anywhere in the Bible going on record recognizing his apostleship!
 

Alone

Banned by request
Okay I can see how you could believe that, however if the word of God was actually written by the holy ghost then the holy ghost would be saying that Paul was an apostle and not Paul himself? Also are there scripture references in the book of Acts that says that Paul was walking around talking about being an apostle, if I'm not mistaken he actually said that he was the least and not worthy to be called an apostle?
1st Corinthians 15 9 For I am the least of the apostles, that am not meet to be called an apostle, because I persecuted the church of God.
 

Alone

Banned by request
2nd Peter 3:15 And account that the longsuffering of our Lord is salvation; even as our beloved brother Paul also according to the wisdom given unto him hath written unto you;
this is also another place we're a different apostle, "the rock" confirms Pauls acceptance
 
Some Christians such as I do consider Paul to be a false apostle. He is not in the Swedenborg canon. It should be noted that the book of Romans or other books written by Paul are not included in the list of books that, according to Swedenborg, constitute the divinely inspired Biblical canon listed in Arcana Coelestia 10,325, White Horse 16, and New Jerusalem and its Heavenly Doctrine 266.

Heaven and Hell (Swedenborg book) - Wikipedia

I am intrigued. Thank you for sharing this. I wasn't aware of any Christian group that rejects Paul.
 
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