COL 2:16 And The Sabbath - Are You Being Told The Truth?

3rdAngel · Nov 28, 2019

IndigoChild5559 said:
In no way shape size or for does Israel mean rule as God. Wow. I don't know where you came up with that one, but it is blasphemous to say that a man is God.

Are you sure your Hebrew or a JEW? You seem to be part quoting me and ignoring everthing that is being shared with you.

Hebrew and Greek Dictionaries w/TVM, Strong - H3478
ישׂראל; yiśrâ'êl From H8280 and H410; he will rule as God ; Jisrael, a symbolical name of Jacob; also (typically) of his posterity: - Israel.

IndigoChild5559 said:
Prevail has many meanings. It does not have all those meanings simultaneously. You have to use context to choose which meaning is being employed. In this passage, prevail means Jacob won. All your stuff about Jacob being a Prince etc., I don't even know where you are getting that from.

It does not seem you are reading what you are quoting from or understanding it. The application of the Hebrew word "prevailed" יכל יכול ; yâkôl yâkôl is given in the context of the scripture provided with the rest of the words used in GENESIS 32:28 including ISRAEL; ישׂראל; yiśrâ'êl meaning "he will rule as God" . Perhaps you need to re-read what you are quoting from...

GENESIS 32:24-28 [24], And Jacob was left alone; and there wrestled a man with him until the breaking of the day. [25], And when he saw that he prevailed not against him, he touched the hollow of his thigh; and the hollow of Jacob's thigh was out of joint, as he wrestled with him. [26], And he said, let me go, for the day breaks. And he said, I will not let you go, except you bless me. [27], And he said unto him, what is your name? And he said, Jacob. [28], And he said, Your name shall be called no more Jacob, but Israel: for as a prince have you power with God and with men, and have prevailed.

The meaning of the name ISRAEL in context of the scripture application that God gave to Jacob means "an overcomer with God and man; or he shall rule as God" ישׂראל; yiśrâ'êl

God's name to Jacob is ISRAEL; ישׂראל; yiśrâ'êl meaning "he will rule as God"

The reason why God gave the name ISRAEL to Jacob was that "as a Prince have you (Jacob) have power with God and man and have prevailed. v28

PREVAILED; יכל יכול ; yâkôl yâkôl meaning; A primitive root; to be able, literally (can, could) or morally (may, might): - be able, any at all (ways), attain, can (away with, [-not]), could, endure, might, overcome, have power, prevail, still, suffer.

IndigoChild5559 said:
Of course. This is the difference between Israel and the faithful of Israel. Do you honestly believe that Israel during the times of the bad Kings, when it slipped into idolatry, was somehow not Israel?

The nation of ISRAEL in the old covenent was indeed God's people until they continually broke God's covenant. The last straw was when the prophesied Messiah came to his own and his own received him not *John 1:11. They did not recognise the very one the torah foretold would come to be their Savior and put him on a cross and crucified him not knowing the time of their visitation*Luke 9:44

Now 'Israel' "after the flesh", as a 'nation', is left desolate (Matthew 23:38; Luke 13:35), to bear no more fruit ever again (Matthew 21:19), cursed, withered away (Mark 11:21), dried up from the roots (Mark 11:20), "twice dead" (Jude 1:12), and the axe already laid at their root (Matthew 3:10; Luke 3:9), cut down and to be thrown into the fire.

The New [or Everlasting] Covenant is only made with the spiritual “Israel” (Jesus Christ, the "elect" of the Father; Isaiah 42:1; Matthew 12:18-20), this “Judah” (Revelation 5:5) and His “house” his people (2 Corinthians 1:20 For all the promises of God in him are yea, and in him Amen, unto the glory of God by us.; – for Christ Jesus, and all those who believe and follow God's Word are the true “Israel”, the “elect” of God, and thus all who choose to be in Him; see Isaiah 42:1, 45:4, 65:9.

IndigoChild5559 said:
What I said was a lot more complicated than that. Some parts of it are conditional and other parts are completely unconditional.

It is not that complicated your making it that way. All of God's promises are all conditional on believing and following God's Word.

IndigoChild5559 said:
As I said before, replacement theology has been rejected by most churches as being the ground floor of Christian anti-Semitism. You have no more right to the land of Israel than an Inuit or a Zimbabwean. I hope and pray that some day you will see things more clearly.

Replacement theology is simply a term invented by people that think their salvation is not conditional on believing and following Gods Word. This way of thinking is not biblical or not written in the torah.

The promised land is only a type of somthing better to come. Sadly those living in the old covenant not able to see the new and the promised Messiah are lost in shadows. It is like the nation of ISRAEL was given a ticket to catch a plane to go on a holiday but missed the plane while still waiting in the airport for a plane that has already left the airport. The promise of the new covenant has arrived *Jeremiah 31:31-34 yet many close their eyes to see and their ears to hear *ISAIAH 56:10-12

God's ISRAEL is no longer the nation of ISRAEL those who are in the flesh..

"Ah sinful nation, a people laden with iniquity, a seed of evildoers, children that are corrupters: they have forsaken the LORD, they have provoked the Holy One of Israel to anger, they are gone away backward. Why should you be stricken any more? you will revolt more and more: the whole head is sick, and the whole heart faint. From the sole of the foot even to the head there is no soundness in it; but wounds, and bruises, and putrefying sores: they have not been closed, neither bound up, neither mollified with ointment. Your country is desolate, your cities are burned with fire: your land, strangers devour it in your presence, and it is desolate, as overthrown by strangers. And the daughter of Zion is left as a cottage in a vineyard, as a lodge in a garden of cucumbers, as a besieged city. Except the LORD of hosts had left to us a very small remnant, we should have been as Sodom, and we should have been like to Gomorrah. Hear the word of the LORD, you rulers of Sodom; give ear to the law of our God, you people of Gomorrah. To what purpose is the multitude of your sacrifices to me? said the LORD: I am full of the burnt offerings of rams, and the fat of fed beasts; and I delight not in the blood of bullocks, or of lambs, or of he goats. When you come to appear before me, who has required this at your hand, to tread my courts? Bring no more vain oblations; incense is an abomination to me; the new moons and sabbaths, the calling of assemblies, I cannot away with; it is iniquity, even the solemn meeting. Your new moons and your appointed feasts my soul hates: they are a trouble to me; I am weary to bear them. And when you spread forth your hands, I will hide my eyes from you: yes, when you make many prayers, I will not hear: your hands are full of blood. Wash you, make you clean; put away the evil of your doings from before my eyes; cease to do evil; Learn to do well; seek judgment, relieve the oppressed, judge the fatherless, plead for the widow. Come now, and let us reason together, said the LORD: though your sins be as scarlet, they shall be as white as snow; though they be red like crimson, they shall be as wool. If you be willing and obedient, you shall eat the good of the land: But if you refuse and rebel, you shall be devoured with the sword: for the mouth of the LORD has spoken it. How is the faithful city become an harlot! it was full of judgment; righteousness lodged in it; but now murderers. Your silver is become dross, your wine mixed with water: Your princes are rebellious, and companions of thieves: every one loves gifts, and follows after rewards: they judge not the fatherless, neither does the cause of the widow come to them. Therefore said the LORD, the LORD of hosts, the mighty One of Israel, Ah, I will ease me of my adversaries, and avenge me of my enemies: And I will turn my hand on you, and purely purge away your dross, and take away all your tin: And I will restore your judges as at the first, and your counsellors as at the beginning: afterward you shall be called, The city of righteousness, the faithful city. Zion shall be redeemed with judgment, and her converts with righteousness. And the destruction of the transgressors and of the sinners shall be together, and they that forsake the LORD shall be consumed." *ISAIAH 1:1-28

ROMANS 9:6-8 [6], FOR THEY ARE NOT ALL ISRAEL WHICH ARE OF ISRAEL,: [7], NEITHER, BECAUSE THEY ARE THE SEED OF ABRAHAM, ARE THEY ALL CHILDREN: but in Isaac shall thy seed be called <Christ> [8], That is, THEY WHICH ARE THE CHILDREN OF THE FLESH, THESE ARE NOT THE CHILDREN OF GOD: BUT THE CHILDREN OF THE PROMISE <those who believe> ARE COUNTED FOR THE SEED.

God's ISRAEL are all those in CHRIST that have been given a NEW HEART according to the NEW COVENANT promise of JEREMIAL 31:31-34...

ROMANS 2:28-29 [28], FOR HE IS NOT A JEW WHICH IS ONE OUTWARDLY; NEITHER IS THAT CIRCUMCISION, WHICH IS OUTWARDS IN THE FLESH: [29], BUT HE IS A JEW WHICH IS ONE INWARDLY; and CIRCUMCISION IS OF THE HEART, IN THE SPIRIT, AND NOT IN THE LETTER; whose praise is not of men, but of God.

In the NEW COVENANT all those in Christ are are God's ISRAEL...

COLOSSIANS 3:11 [11], WHERE THERE IS NEITHER JEW NOR GREEK circumcision nor uncircumcision, Barbarian, Scythian, bond nor free: BUT CHRIST IS ALL IN ALL.

3rdAngel · Nov 28, 2019

IndigoChild5559 said:
Our conversation has kind of come to an impasse, largely because you are not responding to anything I have said. I respond to you. You say X. I say X-Y. But when I say X-Y, you don't respond to it. You just repeat X. That's not really a conversation

Actually that is not true at all. What is it that you claim I have not responded to? Perhaps I missed it. You have been responded to section by section and scripture by scripture. I think though it is you that are not reading and ignoring what is being shared with you to be honest. Your only part quoting my posts to you and not addressing the content and ignoring both the scriptures and the questions asked of you.

IndigoChild5559 said:
Here is an example. You began with Isaiah 7:14, and immanuel and the virgin, and saying it was a messianic prophecy. I replied by saying it was a prophecy given to King Ahaz, and wasnt messianic at all. I explained the difference between Almah and Betullah, and I remarked that having the name "God is with us" doesn't mean the person is God. Lots and lots of boys are named Emanuel and none of them are God. What is your response? YOu have acknowledged nothing I said regarding King Ahaz. It's like the first verses of the passage don't exist.

You saying that ISAIAH 7:14 is not a Messianic prophecy does not make it so. How does you saying that ISAIAH 7:14 was not a Messianic prophecy not make it so if it was given to King Ahaz or anyone else for that matter? Pehaps you should consider the context that was provided in ISAIAH 7:13 and to who prophecy was given to?

ISAIAH 7:13-14 [13], And he said, Hear you now, O house of David; Is it a small thing for you to weary men, but will you weary my God also? [14], Therefore the Lord himself shall give you a sign; Behold, a virgin shall conceive, and bear a son, and shall call his name Immanuel.

Your claims to Almah and Betullah have already been addressed. You only simply ignored my response to you which stated that the translation of עלמה; ‛almâh Feminine of elem H5958 (young man); means a girl (as veiled or private): - damsel, maid, unmarried which according to Hebree culture is implied as virgin. Further evidence is supplied as the meaning is in reference to a young woman ripe sexually and of marriageable age but has not known a man. The word עלמה ‛almâh, is derived from the verb עלם ‛âlam, "to conceal, to hide, to cover. Veiled or private meaning hidden from man. That is someone still living with their parents unmarried who does not know a man (veiled or private) sexually.

MA'IDEN, noun meaning is an unmarried woman, or a young unmarried woman; a virgin or can also mean a female slave.

As part of the Hebrew culture young sexually ripe unmarried woman (girls, maidens and damsels) were assumed to be virgins before knowing a man in marriage sexually.

This is demonstrated in the scripture applications where עלמה; ‛almâh is applied to Rebekah (unmarried virgin) Genesis 24:43, and to Miriam, the sister of Moses, Exodus 2:8 (as young unmarried maidens; virgins who had not known a man). It occurs in only seven places in the Old Testament. Besides those already mentioned, it is found in Psalm 68:25; Song of Soloman 1:3; Song of Soloman 6:8; and Proverbs 30:19. In all these places, it is used in its obvious natural sense, to denote a young, unmarried female virgins.

The generally correct Hebrew word for virgin בתולה bethûlâh as you have pointed out, denotes a pure virgin but בתולה bethûlâh is applied to woman of any age group, therefore is not age specific where as עלמה; ‛almâh is applied to young woman of marriagble age who have been hidden from men and not known man sexually (unmarried) – virgin, which is the application of all the scriptures that עלמה; ‛almâh as applied in the scriptures in the torah.

The whole connection to every scripture where עלמה; ‛almâh is used, requires us to understand it of a young woman of marrageable age who was "not then married," and hidden from man sexually and who was, therefore, regarded and designated as a virgin.

There is NO USE of the Hebrew word עלמה; ‛almâh in the torah applied to somone that is married and not a virgin so the Greek translation of the Hebrew word עלמה; ‛almâh to παρθένος; parthenos meaning a maiden (unmarried young woman; by implication an unmarried daughter: - virgin is the most accurate translation and proper meaning of the Hebrew word עלמה; ‛almâh applied in the text of ISAIAH 7:14 to denote a young unmarried women of marrageable age that has been hidden from men sexually - which is a young woman who is a virgin.

The difference being highlighted above between Almah and Betullah applied to scripture context is that Almah is specific to young unmarried woman private and concealed not sexually knowing a man - virgin (age specific to young sexually mature) and Betullah being a pure virgin that is not age specific.

Your response to what was shared with you above was to simply ignore my response to your claims in relation to Almah not having any application to virgin woman.

IndigoChild5559 · Nov 30, 2019

3rdAngel said:
Are you sure your Hebrew or a JEW? You seem to be part quoting me and ignoring everthing that is being shared with you.

Hebrew and Greek Dictionaries w/TVM, Strong - H3478
ישׂראל; yiśrâ'êl From H8280 and H410; he will rule as God ; Jisrael, a symbolical name of Jacob; also (typically) of his posterity: - Israel.

Strong's H8280 is Sarah. It means contends. It does not mean rules. Jacob is not God, so he cannot rule as God. To suggest so is blasphemous. Even if Strong's says so.

I have already given you a better translation. No "prince" in there.
Although I consider's Strong's the best translation, it's not online. You can use the JPS version that can be found here:
Hebrew - English Bible / Mechon-Mamre

Please stop quoting the passage. We have both read the passage many times.

I'm not sure what you think Replacement Theology is, but let me tell you. It is the belief that tribal Israel has been replaced by the church (the body of believers in Jesus). And that, sir, is exactly what you teach.

Like I said, it is the manure that fertilizes Christian anti-Semitism Almost all Christian churches have given it up. I suggest you think long and hard about that.

IndigoChild5559 · Nov 30, 2019

3rdAngel said:
Your claims to Almah and Betullah have already been addressed.

What you have done is write entire books trying to squrim around what is so simply it can be said in one sentence (as I have). Try just asking someone who speaks Hebrew as their native language, or someone who uses Hebrew as a regular part of their liturgy. All you are doing is quoting skewed websites.

Nor have you addressed my point that in the verse, the woman is already pregnant. (Most Christian Bibles deliberately mistranslate in order to make it match with the gospel misquote.)

By the way, some of the newer translations, which are more faithful to the Hebrew, do translate it young woman.

3rdAngel · Nov 30, 2019

IndigoChild5559 said:
Strong's H8280 is Sarah. It means contends. It does not mean rules. Jacob is not God, so he cannot rule as God. To suggest so is blasphemous. Even if Strong's says so.

Soo, we should believe you over what the Hebrew dictionary says because you say so.

Hebrew and Greek Dictionaries w/TVM, Strong - H3478
ישׂראל; yiśrâ'êl From H8280 and H410; he will rule as God ; Jisrael, a symbolical name of Jacob; also (typically) of his posterity: - Israel.

As to the Hebrew word "Sarah" (H8280) this is not ישׂראל; yiśrâ'êl From H3478 it is the root word from H8280 שׂרה; śârâh and it means to prevail: - have power as a prince.

IndigoChild5559 said:
I'm not sure what you think Replacement Theology is, but let me tell you. It is the belief that tribal Israel has been replaced by the church (the body of believers in Jesus). And that, sir, is exactly what you teach. Like I said, it is the manure that fertilizes Christian anti-Semitism Almost all Christian churches have given it up. I suggest you think long and hard about that.

For me I believe and follow all of God's Word. For me it seems that those still livining in the old covenant and have missed the new *JEREMIAH 31:31-34 are the ones still waiting in the airport for their plane to arrive to go on holidays and do not know that they have already missed the plane. I believe God's Word in the new covenant says that God's ISRAEL are all those who believe and follow God's Word.

ROMANS 9:6-8 [6], FOR THEY ARE NOT ALL ISRAEL WHICH ARE OF ISRAEL,: [7], NEITHER, BECAUSE THEY ARE THE SEED OF ABRAHAM, ARE THEY ALL CHILDREN: but in Isaac shall thy seed be called <Christ> [8], That is, THEY WHICH ARE THE CHILDREN OF THE FLESH, THESE ARE NOT THE CHILDREN OF GOD: BUT THE CHILDREN OF THE PROMISE <those who believe> ARE COUNTED FOR THE SEED.

There is no such thing as replacement theology. It is only a term invented by those who deny the new covenant and those who have missed the plane and are still waiting in the airport.

3rdAngel · Nov 30, 2019

IndigoChild5559 said:
What you have done is write entire books trying to squrim around what is so simply it can be said in one sentence (as I have). Try just asking someone who speaks Hebrew as their native language, or someone who uses Hebrew as a regular part of their liturgy. All you are doing is quoting skewed websites. Nor have you addressed my point that in the verse, the woman is already pregnant. (Most Christian Bibles deliberately mistranslate in order to make it match with the gospel misquote.) By the way, some of the newer translations, which are more faithful to the Hebrew, do translate it young woman.

Not really, all I have quoted is God's Word and you do not believe it. For me I choose to believe and follow God's Word and so should you. Only God's Word is true and we should believe and follow it, as I believe, according to God's Word in the new covenant *JEREMIAH 31:31-34, Gods ISRAEL are all those who believe and follow God's Word.

3rdAngel · Nov 30, 2019

IndigoChild5559 said:
Nor have you addressed my point that in the verse, the woman is already pregnant. (Most Christian Bibles deliberately mistranslate in order to make it match with the gospel misquote.) By the way, some of the newer translations, which are more faithful to the Hebrew, do translate it young woman.

Actually everything you have posted has been addressed with the scriptures and there is nothing that you have posted that has not been addressed with God's Word that I am aware of. Yet here, all I am hearing are your words that are not God's that have no basis in truth but only in your opinion even after you were shown why your reasoning from the scriptures are in error. Funny though about your claims in relation to mistranslation when the translations where originally conducted by 70+ JEWISH Hebrew scholars from the 12 tribes of ISRAEL (linked) 200-300 BCE, who knew the JEWISH culture of the time and made the translation for the Jewish community living in Greek speaking countries, who according to you, none of them knew what they were talking about. So according to you the 70+ JEWISH translators from the 12 tribes of ISRAEL all got it wrong and you have the truth

?

IndigoChild5559 · Dec 1, 2019

3rdAngel said:
Soo, we should believe you over what the Hebrew dictionary says because you say so.

Better than you, I,or Strong's would be to ask someone here who actually knows Hebrew. Ask Rabbi O. Apart from that, I have said what I have to say. Strong's is flawed. I am flawed. And you have no background in Hebrew at all.

There is no such thing as replacement theology. It is only a term invented by those who deny the new covenant and those who have missed the plane and are still waiting in the airport.

Honestly, it is just ridiculous for you to assert that there is no such thing as Replacement Theology, also known as Supercessionism, when there is. Lie to yourself if you wish. It doesn't change the facts. I have defined RT for you, and shown you that the doctrine you teach qualified as RT. Enough said.

IndigoChild5559 · Dec 1, 2019

3rdAngel said:
Not really, all I have quoted is God's Word and you do not believe it. For me I choose to believe and follow God's Word and so should you. Only God's Word is true and we should believe and follow it, as I believe, according to God's Word in the new covenant *JEREMIAH 31:31-34, Gods ISRAEL are all those who believe and follow God's Word.

You have done logical backflips. You quoted the scriptures, but you squirm around trying to make them say what they don't mean. Enough said.

IndigoChild5559 · Dec 1, 2019

3rdAngel said:
Actually everything you have posted has been addressed with the scriptures and there is nothing that you have posted that has not been addressed with God's Word that I am aware of.

I quoted for you a superior translation directly from the HEBREW (not from the Greek). It shows that the woman is already pregnant, therefore is NOT a virgin. You have NOT addressed this.

Here it is in the NRSV, a Christian translation:
Isaiah 7:14
Look, the young woman is with child and shall bear a son, and shall name him Immanuel.

3rdAngel · Dec 1, 2019

IndigoChild5559 said:
Better than you, I,or Strong's would be to ask someone here who actually knows Hebrew. Ask Rabbi O. Apart from that, I have said what I have to say. Strong's is flawed. I am flawed. And you have no background in Hebrew at all.

I get the feeling you are either not reading the posts, with the scriptures and questions asked of you. I say this as you only part quote my posts and ignore most of the content. According to your claims in relation to mistranslation when the translations where originally conducted by 70+ JEWISH Hebrew scholars from the 12 tribes of ISRAEL (linked) 200-300 BCE, who knew the JEWISH culture of the time and made the translation for the Jewish community living in Greek speaking countries, who according to you, none of them knew what they were talking about. So according to you the 70+ JEWISH translators from the 12 tribes of ISRAEL all got it wrong and you have the truth

?

Sounds like a claim from someone still waiting in the ariport and does not know they have missed their plane.

IndigoChild5559 said:
Honestly, it is just ridiculous for you to assert that there is no such thing as Replacement Theology, also known as Supercessionism, when there is. Lie to yourself if you wish. It doesn't change the facts. I have defined RT for you, and shown you that the doctrine you teach qualified as RT. Enough said.

There is only God's Word and I believe it is only God's Word that has been shared with you. Your claims are only of those that is has missed the plane, and rejected the Messiah *JEREMIAH 31:31-34 because they did not know the day of their visitation.

JEREMIAH 31:31-34 [31], Behold, the days come, said the LORD, that I will make a new covenant with the house of Israel, and with the house of Judah: [32], Not according to the covenant that I made with their fathers in the day that I took them by the hand to bring them out of the land of Egypt; which my covenant they broke, although I was an husband to them, said the LORD: [33], But this shall be the covenant that I will make with the house of Israel; After those days, said the LORD, I will put my law in their inward parts, and write it in their hearts; and will be their God, and they shall be my people. [34], And they shall teach no more every man his neighbor, and every man his brother, saying, Know the LORD: for they shall all know me, from the least of them to the greatest of them, said the LORD: for I will forgive their iniquity, and I will remember their sin no more.

But I say, Did not Israel know? First Moses said, "I will make them envious by those who are not a people; I will make them angry by a nation that has no understanding" *DEUTERONOMY 32:21

ISAIAH was very bold, and said to the nation of ISRAEL, "I am sought of them that asked not for me; I am found of them that sought me not: I said, Behold me, behold me, to a nation that was not called by my name. I have spread out my hands all the day to a rebellious people, which walks in a way that was not good, after their own thoughts." ISAIAH 65:1-2

So it is today by all those who reject the Messiah and I believe these scripture are fulfilled this very day in your ears because the nation of ISRAEL did not know the day of their visitation, having God's Word but not walking in it.

"Ah sinful nation, a people laden with iniquity, a seed of evildoers, children that are corrupters: they have forsaken the LORD, they have provoked the Holy One of Israel to anger, they are gone away backward. Why should you be stricken any more? you will revolt more and more: the whole head is sick, and the whole heart faint. From the sole of the foot even to the head there is no soundness in it; but wounds, and bruises, and putrefying sores: they have not been closed, neither bound up, neither mollified with ointment. Your country is desolate, your cities are burned with fire: your land, strangers devour it in your presence, and it is desolate, as overthrown by strangers. And the daughter of Zion is left as a cottage in a vineyard, as a lodge in a garden of cucumbers, as a besieged city. Except the LORD of hosts had left to us a very small remnant, we should have been as Sodom, and we should have been like to Gomorrah." *ISAIAH 1:4-9

If you were of God you would hear his Word. You speak your own words which are not God's Word so your testimony has no truth in it because your words are not God's. God's word is not my word but God's Word. God's Word bears witness to my words that they are true because they are God's Word not my words. Your words are not God's Word therefore you speak of yourself and testifiy of yourself. Only God's Word is true and we should believe and follow him.

God's Sheep hear His Voice (the Word of God). Those who do not hear God's Word do not know him.

3rdAngel · Dec 1, 2019

IndigoChild5559 said:
You have done logical backflips. You quoted the scriptures, but you squirm around trying to make them say what they don't mean. Enough said.

Now I speak to you honestly. Is your reply an actual rebuttal to the scriptural evidence and logic provided? It is plainly not. It is called 'hand-waving', or outright dismissal, and should I take that reply as a serious counter to what is presented, or to the belief held? Do you think that your reply would bring someone to change their mind about what they believe, or do you think that your reply would solidify that belief? It only shows you have no reply to the scriptures shared with you and the questions asked of you and your denial of the very scriptures you claim to believe and follow.

3rdAngel · Dec 1, 2019

IndigoChild5559 said:
I quoted for you a superior translation directly from the HEBREW (not from the Greek). It shows that the woman is already pregnant, therefore is NOT a virgin. You have NOT addressed this. Here it is in the NRSV, a Christian translation: Isaiah 7:14 Look, the young woman is with child and shall bear a son, and shall name him Immanuel

As shown earlier your claims to a superior translation are only your own not backed by any fact and only supported by those still sitting in the airport because they missed the plane they were waiting for. I would say your translation is of the minority wouldn't you?

New International Version
Therefore the Lord himself will give you a sign: The virgin will conceive and give birth to a son, and will call him Immanuel.

New Living Translation
All right then, the Lord himself will give you the sign. Look! The virgin will conceive a child! She will give birth to a son and will call him Immanuel (which means ‘God is with us’).

English Standard Version
Therefore the Lord himself will give you a sign. Behold, the virgin shall conceive and bear a son, and shall call his name Immanuel.

Berean Study Bible
Therefore the Lord Himself will give you a sign: Behold, the virgin will be with child and will give birth to a son, and she will call Him Immanuel.

New American Standard Bible
"Therefore the Lord Himself will give you a sign: Behold, a virgin will be with child and bear a son, and she will call His name Immanuel.

New King James Version
Therefore the Lord Himself will give you a sign: Behold, the virgin shall conceive and bear a Son, and shall call His name Immanuel.

King James Bible
Therefore the Lord himself shall give you a sign; Behold, a virgin shall conceive, and bear a son, and shall call his name Immanuel.

Christian Standard Bible
Therefore, the Lord himself will give you a sign: See, the virgin will conceive, have a son, and name him Immanuel.

Contemporary English Version
But the LORD will still give you proof. A virgin is pregnant; she will have a son and will name him Immanuel.

Holman Christian Standard Bible
Therefore, the Lord Himself will give you a sign: The virgin will conceive, have a son, and name him Immanuel.

International Standard Version
"Therefore the LORD himself will give you a sign. Watch! The virgin is conceiving a child, and will give birth to a son, and his name will be called Immanuel.

New Heart English Bible
Therefore the LORD himself will give you a sign. Look, the virgin will conceive, and bear a son, and will name him Immanuel.

GOD'S WORD® Translation
So the Lord himself will give you this sign: A virgin will become pregnant and give birth to a son, and she will name him Immanuel [God Is With Us].

New American Standard 1977
“Therefore the Lord Himself will give you a sign: Behold, a virgin will be with child and bear a son, and she will call His name Immanuel.

Jubilee Bible 2000
Therefore the Lord himself shall give you a sign: Behold, the virgin shall conceive and bear a son and shall call his name Immanuel.

King James 2000 Bible
Therefore the Lord himself shall give you a sign; Behold, a virgin shall conceive, and bear a son, and shall call his name Immanuel.

American King James Version
Therefore the Lord himself shall give you a sign; Behold, a virgin shall conceive, and bear a son, and shall call his name Immanuel.

American Standard Version
Therefore the Lord himself will give you a sign: behold, a virgin shall conceive, and bear a son, and shall call his name Immanuel.

Brenton Septuagint Translation
Therefore the Lord himself shall give you a sign; behold, a virgin shall conceive in the womb, and shall bring forth a son, and thou shalt call his name Emmanuel.

Douay-Rheims Bible
Therefore the Lord himself shall give you a sign. Behold a virgin shall conceive, and bear a son, and his name shall be called Emmanuel.

Darby Bible Translation
Therefore will the Lord himself give you a sign: Behold, the virgin shall conceive and shall bring forth a son, and call his name Immanuel.

English Revised Version
Therefore the Lord himself shall give you a sign; behold, a virgin shall conceive, and bear a son, and shall call his name Immanuel.

Webster's Bible Translation
Therefore the Lord himself will give you a sign; Behold, a virgin shall conceive, and bear a son, and shall call his name Immanuel.

World English Bible
Therefore the Lord himself will give you a sign. Behold, the virgin will conceive, and bear a son, and shall call his name Immanuel.

Young's Literal Translation
Therefore the Lord Himself giveth to you a sign, Lo, the Virgin is conceiving, And is bringing forth a son, And hath called his name Immanuel,

1. LEXICON;
2. HEBREW ;
3. INTERLINEAR

I would say your translation is of the minority wouldn't you?

I will say it again...

Funny though about your claims in relation to mistranslation when the translations where originally conducted by 70+ JEWISH Hebrew scholars from the 12 tribes of ISRAEL (linked) 200-300 BCE, who knew the JEWISH culture of the time and made the translation for the Jewish community living in Greek speaking countries, who according to you, none of them knew what they were talking about. So according to you the 70+ expert JEWISH translators from the 12 tribes of ISRAEL all got it wrong and you have the truth

?

Something to think about

IndigoChild5559 · Dec 3, 2019

3rdAngel said:
I get the feeling you are either not reading the posts, with the scriptures and questions asked of you. I say this as you only part quote my posts and ignore most of the content. According to your claims in relation to mistranslation when the translations where originally conducted by 70+ JEWISH Hebrew scholars from the 12 tribes of ISRAEL (linked) 200-300 BCE, who knew the JEWISH culture of the time and made the translation for the Jewish community living in Greek speaking countries, who according to you, none of them knew what they were talking about. So according to you the 70+ JEWISH translators from the 12 tribes of ISRAEL all got it wrong and you have the truth ?

Sounds like a claim from someone still waiting in the ariport and does not know they have missed their plane.

There is only God's Word and I believe it is only God's Word that has been shared with you. Your claims are only of those that is has missed the plane, and rejected the Messiah *JEREMIAH 31:31-34 because they did not know the day of their visitation.

JEREMIAH 31:31-34 [31], Behold, the days come, said the LORD, that I will make a new covenant with the house of Israel, and with the house of Judah: [32], Not according to the covenant that I made with their fathers in the day that I took them by the hand to bring them out of the land of Egypt; which my covenant they broke, although I was an husband to them, said the LORD: [33], But this shall be the covenant that I will make with the house of Israel; After those days, said the LORD, I will put my law in their inward parts, and write it in their hearts; and will be their God, and they shall be my people. [34], And they shall teach no more every man his neighbor, and every man his brother, saying, Know the LORD: for they shall all know me, from the least of them to the greatest of them, said the LORD: for I will forgive their iniquity, and I will remember their sin no more.

But I say, Did not Israel know? First Moses said, "I will make them envious by those who are not a people; I will make them angry by a nation that has no understanding" *DEUTERONOMY 32:21

ISAIAH was very bold, and said to the nation of ISRAEL, "I am sought of them that asked not for me; I am found of them that sought me not: I said, Behold me, behold me, to a nation that was not called by my name. I have spread out my hands all the day to a rebellious people, which walks in a way that was not good, after their own thoughts." ISAIAH 65:1-2

So it is today by all those who reject the Messiah and I believe these scripture are fulfilled this very day in your ears because the nation of ISRAEL did not know the day of their visitation, having God's Word but not walking in it.

"Ah sinful nation, a people laden with iniquity, a seed of evildoers, children that are corrupters: they have forsaken the LORD, they have provoked the Holy One of Israel to anger, they are gone away backward. Why should you be stricken any more? you will revolt more and more: the whole head is sick, and the whole heart faint. From the sole of the foot even to the head there is no soundness in it; but wounds, and bruises, and putrefying sores: they have not been closed, neither bound up, neither mollified with ointment. Your country is desolate, your cities are burned with fire: your land, strangers devour it in your presence, and it is desolate, as overthrown by strangers. And the daughter of Zion is left as a cottage in a vineyard, as a lodge in a garden of cucumbers, as a besieged city. Except the LORD of hosts had left to us a very small remnant, we should have been as Sodom, and we should have been like to Gomorrah." *ISAIAH 1:4-9

If you were of God you would hear his Word. You speak your own words which are not God's Word so your testimony has no truth in it because your words are not God's. God's word is not my word but God's Word. God's Word bears witness to my words that they are true because they are God's Word not my words. Your words are not God's Word therefore you speak of yourself and testifiy of yourself. Only God's Word is true and we should believe and follow him.

God's Sheep hear His Voice (the Word of God). Those who do not hear God's Word do not know him.

I actually do usually read your posts, though they are a grind to read. However, I skim them. It's because you say things that are partial truths and it drives me nuts. You have some education, but it's a skewed education -- you know just enough truth mixed with lies to be a really dangerous person.

For example, you and I have a deep, deep disagreement about the Septuagint. You think the entire thing from Genesis to Malachi was translated by 70 scholars, and I know that they were not.

PART ONE
The first five books, known as the Torah, or books of the Law (sometimes called the books of Moses) were indeed translated into Greek by seventy incredible scholars and are an amazing Greek edition. However, they are still a Greek translation and inferior to the Hebrew, just as any translation is inferior to the original.

PART TWO
The rest of the Tanakh (what Chrisitans disparagingly call the "Old" Testament) was not translated by the seventy scholars, and was translated MUCH much later, indeed hundreds of years later. Many scholars think that these books were translated by early Chrisitans, who bent the translations in favor of their own Christological theologies. At any rate, their quality is certainly not on par with the scholarship of the first five books, and they are pretty worthless.

CONCLUSION
If you are going to translate into English, translate from the original Hebrew. The best Christian translations, such as the New American Bible do just this.

IndigoChild5559 · Dec 3, 2019

3rdAngel said:
Now I speak to you honestly. Is your reply an actual rebuttal to the scriptural evidence and logic provided? It is plainly not. It is called 'hand-waving', or outright dismissal, and should I take that reply as a serious counter to what is presented, or to the belief held? Do you think that your reply would bring someone to change their mind about what they believe, or do you think that your reply would solidify that belief? It only shows you have no reply to the scriptures shared with you and the questions asked of you and your denial of the very scriptures you claim to believe and follow.

It's not a reply to the scriptures. It's a reply to your bad logic. Your interpretation of the scriptures is lousy.

And not original. You are parroting what millions of Christians have been fed. I've heard it a thousand times.

This is not my first rodeo.

IndigoChild5559 · Dec 4, 2019

3rdAngel said:
I would say your translation is of the minority wouldn't you?

Of course it is. Because Christians are the majority religion in the world. But so what? Does being the majority make you right? We are the remnant. We will be faithful, obedient, and preserve the World of God as it is written--it is a mitzvah for a Jew to write a sefer Torah. That means of course, proliferating the text in its original language, and preserving the knowledge of Hebrew so that we can always go to that original. May every generation of Jews come to read, write and speak Hebrew! But to a lesser degree, it also means providing superior translations for those who lack the education in Hebrew.

3rdAngel · Dec 4, 2019

IndigoChild5559 said:
I actually do usually read your posts, though they are a grind to read. However, I skim them. It's because you say things that are partial truths and it drives me nuts. You have some education, but it's a skewed education -- you know just enough truth mixed with lies to be a really dangerous person.

Thankyou for being hones as your skimming the posts and scriptures shared with you show why you do not understand what is being said. Perhaps if you prayerfully read the posts and scriptures shared with you it may help to undstand what is being said. Maybe you feel the way you do because your fathers having the oracles of God that foretold of the Messiahs coming, rejected him and put him on a tree and crucified him and now his Word is given to those who did not seek him as it is written...

But I say, Did not Israel know? First Moses said, "I will make them envious by those who are not a people; I will make them angry by a nation that has no understanding" *DEUTERONOMY 32:21

ISAIAH was very bold, and said to the nation of ISRAEL, "I am sought of them that asked not for me; I am found of them that sought me not: I said, Behold me, behold me, to a nation that was not called by my name. I have spread out my hands all the day to a rebellious people, which walks in a way that was not good, after their own thoughts." ISAIAH 65:1-2

So it is today by all those who reject the Messiah and I believe these scripture are fulfilled this very day in your ears because the nation of ISRAEL did not know the day of their visitation, having God's Word but not walking in it.

"Ah sinful nation, a people laden with iniquity, a seed of evildoers, children that are corrupters: they have forsaken the LORD, they have provoked the Holy One of Israel to anger, they are gone away backward. Why should you be stricken any more? you will revolt more and more: the whole head is sick, and the whole heart faint. From the sole of the foot even to the head there is no soundness in it; but wounds, and bruises, and putrefying sores: they have not been closed, neither bound up, neither mollified with ointment. Your country is desolate, your cities are burned with fire: your land, strangers devour it in your presence, and it is desolate, as overthrown by strangers. And the daughter of Zion is left as a cottage in a vineyard, as a lodge in a garden of cucumbers, as a besieged city. Except the LORD of hosts had left to us a very small remnant, we should have been as Sodom, and we should have been like to Gomorrah." *ISAIAH 1:4-9

If you hear his voice harden not your heart as in the provocation, and as in the day of temptation in the wilderness when your fathers tempted God and saw his work. Forty years long was God grieved with that generation, and said, It is a people that do err in their heart, and they have not known my ways: To whom God swore in His wrath that they should not enter into my rest. *Psalms 95:8-11

IndigoChild5559 said:
For example, you and I have a deep, deep disagreement about the Septuagint. You think the entire thing from Genesis to Malachi was translated by 70 scholars, and I know that they were not.

I have never said any such thing. I must ask you though how do you know when all the books were added when the very historian and scholars can not even agree among themselves? Between you and me however I do believe that the original was from God but since this time there has been so many variations of Septuagint that it is difficult to know what is the correct version so care is needed here.

IndigoChild5559 said:
PART ONE The first five books, known as the Torah, or books of the Law (sometimes called the books of Moses) were indeed translated into Greek by seventy incredible scholars and are an amazing Greek edition. However, they are still a Greek translation and inferior to the Hebrew, just as any translation is inferior to the original.

Your simply stating that the translation from the Hebrew to the Greek is inferior because it is not the original. God's promise to his people is that if they seek him and believe his Word they will know the truth if it is of God or not. Spiritual things are Spiritually discerned. If you do not have God's Spirit even if you have a perfect version of the scritptures and do not believe and follow God's Word you will still walk contrary to God's Word. This is what your fathers did and why they rejected the coming of the Messiah and the very scriptures that fortold of his coming.

IndigoChild5559 said:
PART TWO The rest of the Tanakh (what Chrisitans disparagingly call the "Old" Testament) was not translated by the seventy scholars, and was translated MUCH much later, indeed hundreds of years later. Many scholars think that these books were translated by early Chrisitans, who bent the translations in favor of their own Christological theologies. At any rate, their quality is certainly not on par with the scholarship of the first five books, and they are pretty worthless.

As posted earlier even the historians and scholars do not agree among themselves in relation to the timing of the other books and who did them so your argument here is merely your personal opinion.

IndigoChild5559 said:
CONCLUSION If you are going to translate into English, translate from the original Hebrew. The best Christian translations, such as the New American Bible do just this.

For me personally I prayerfully look at many translations and the Hebrew and the Greek applied to context as well as topical applications. You will not find the truth of God's Word by surface reading if God's Spirit is not your guide and teacher accoding to the new covenant promise *Jeremiah 31:31-36. So here is where we will disagree.

Will post some more latter as I get some time...

IndigoChild5559 · Dec 5, 2019

3rdAngel said:
Thankyou for being hones as your skimming the posts and scriptures shared with you show why you do not understand what is being said.
[/quot
1. I'm sure you do the same thing. Are you saying you read every word I say, slowly and carefully, taking great care to completely understand it? I just don't think you are.

2. I'm sorry, but I'm going to skip your preaching parts. Any time you attack me personally or try to convert me (such as when you repeatedly tell me that I don't understand what the scripture says), I'm going to just skip those parts. That's what I mean by skimming. Such parts are irrelevant to our conversation.

I have never said any such thing. I must ask you though how do you know when all the books were added when the very historian and scholars can not even agree among themselves? Between you and me however I do believe that the original was from God but since this time there has been so many variations of Septuagint that it is difficult to know what is the correct version so care is needed here.

Click to expand...

Simply put, the Septuagint was never quoted until Christians began quoting it. Also, the differences in meaning mysteriously support their mythos. Third, it is basically the Christian scholars that yell for an earlier date -- it is important for their credibility that the Septuagint exist prior to their movement, as it gives legitimacy to their quotes.

Your simply stating that the translation from the Hebrew to the Greek is inferior because it is not the original. God's promise to his people is that if they seek him and believe his Word they will know the truth if it is of God or not. Spiritual things are Spiritually discerned. If you do not have God's Spirit even if you have a perfect version of the scritptures and do not believe and follow God's Word you will still walk contrary to God's Word. This is what your fathers did and why they rejected the coming of the Messiah and the very scriptures that fortold of his coming.

Click to expand...

What does that have to do with the superiority of the original language manuscripts?

Look, no scholar, NO real scholar debates that translations are inferior to originals. Something is always lost. You don't even have to be a scholar to know this -- anyone who has had experience translating knows this.

I look forward to hearing from you again!

3rdAngel · Dec 6, 2019

IndigoChild5559 said:
It's not a reply to the scriptures. It's a reply to your bad logic. Your interpretation of the scriptures is lousy. And not original. You are parroting what millions of Christians have been fed. I've heard it a thousand times. This is not my first rodeo.

I have only provided scripture proof as evidence to support what is being shared here with you. Your post here is tipical of your responses. Is your reply an actual rebuttal to the scriptural evidence and logic provided? It is plainly not. Your only stating your opinion not based in any fact. It is called 'hand-waving', or outright dismissal, and should I take that reply as a serious counter to what is presented, or to the belief held? It only shows you have no reply to the scriptures shared with you and the questions asked of you and your denial of the very scriptures you claim to believe and follow.

3rdAngel · Dec 6, 2019

IndigoChild5559 said:
Of course it is. Because Christians are the majority religion in the world. But so what? Does being the majority make you right? We are the remnant. We will be faithful, obedient, and preserve the World of God as it is written--it is a mitzvah for a Jew to write a sefer Torah. That means of course, proliferating the text in its original language, and preserving the knowledge of Hebrew so that we can always go to that original. May every generation of Jews come to read, write and speak Hebrew! But to a lesser degree, it also means providing superior translations for those who lack the education in Hebrew.

Zzz we are not talking about people we are talking about bible translations and language interpretations. ISRAEL as a nation had God's word preserved for 1000's of years but did not follow it. Or did they know of the time of there visitation or the coming of the Messiah the scriptures pointed to whom your fathers crucified. Perhaps it's time to dig a littls deeper? If those who were God's people had the oracles of God but could not follow it or understand it there must be something more to understanding God's Word don't you think?

COL 2:16 And The Sabbath - Are You Being Told The Truth?

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