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So What Happened To All The Changes, Tribulations, And Woe Jesus Had Promised?

Skwim

Veteran Member
Consider:

Matthew 24:1-34 (KJV)

1 And Jesus went out, and departed from the temple: and his disciples came to him for to shew him the buildings of the temple.
2 And Jesus said unto them, See ye not all these things? verily I say unto you, There shall not be left here one stone upon another, that shall not be thrown down.
3 And as he sat upon the mount of Olives, the disciples came unto him privately, saying, Tell us, when shall these things be? and what shall be the sign of thy coming, and of the end of the world?
4 And Jesus answered and said unto them, Take heed that no man deceive you.
5 For many shall come in my name, saying, I am Christ; and shall deceive many.
6 And ye shall hear of wars and rumours of wars: see that ye be not troubled: for all these things must come to pass, but the end is not yet.
7 For nation shall rise against nation, and kingdom against kingdom: and there shall be famines, and pestilences, and earthquakes, in divers places.
8 All these are the beginning of sorrows.
9 Then shall they deliver you up to be afflicted, and shall kill you: and ye shall be hated of all nations for my name's sake.
10 And then shall many be offended, and shall betray one another, and shall hate one another.
11 And many false prophets shall rise, and shall deceive many.
12 And because iniquity shall abound, the love of many shall wax cold.
13 But he that shall endure unto the end, the same shall be saved.
14 And this gospel of the kingdom shall be preached in all the world for a witness unto all nations; and then shall the end come.
15 When ye therefore shall see the abomination of desolation, spoken of by Daniel the prophet, stand in the holy place, (whoso readeth, let him understand.
16 Then let them which be in Judaea flee into the mountains:
17 Let him which is on the housetop not come down to take any thing out of his house:
18 Neither let him which is in the field return back to take his clothes.
19 And woe unto them that are with child, and to them that give suck in those days!
20 But pray ye that your flight be not in the winter, neither on the sabbath day:
21 For then shall be great tribulation, such as was not since the beginning of the world to this time, no, nor ever shall be.
22 And except those days should be shortened, there should no flesh be saved: but for the elect's sake those days shall be shortened.
23 Then if any man shall say unto you, Lo, here is Christ, or there; believe it not.
24 For there shall arise false Christs, and false prophets, and shall shew great signs and wonders; insomuch that, if it were possible, they shall deceive the very elect.
25 Behold, I have told you before.
26 Wherefore if they shall say unto you, Behold, he is in the desert; go not forth: behold, he is in the secret chambers; believe it not.
27 For as the lightning cometh out of the east, and shineth even unto the west; so shall also the coming of the Son of man be.
28 For wheresoever the carcase is, there will the eagles be gathered together.
29 Immediately after the tribulation of those days shall the sun be darkened, and the moon shall not give her light, and the stars shall fall from heaven, and the powers of the heavens shall be shaken:
30 And then shall appear the sign of the Son of man in heaven: and then shall all the tribes of the earth mourn, and they shall see the Son of man coming in the clouds of heaven with power and great glory.
31 And he shall send his angels with a great sound of a trumpet, and they shall gather together his elect from the four winds, from one end of heaven to the other.
32 Now learn a parable of the fig tree; When his branch is yet tender, and putteth forth leaves, ye know that summer is nigh:
33 So likewise ye, when ye shall see all these things, know that it is near, even at the doors.
34 Verily I say unto you, This generation shall not pass, till all these things be fulfilled.

Six of many other versions of Matthew 24:34.

GNT
Remember that all these things will happen before the people now living have all died.

ERV
I assure you that all these things will happen while some of the people of this time are still living.

ICB
I tell you the truth. All these things will happen while the people of this time are still living!

WE
I tell you the truth. The people who are living, will not die before all these things happen.

CEV
I can promise you that some of the people of this generation will still be alive when all this happens.

GW

“I can guarantee this truth: This generation will not disappear until all these things take place.​


So, as I see it, all the events enumerated in Matthew 24 up to verse 34 were supposed to have taken place before some of the people that where then living had died.

So, what happened?

.

.
 
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Kangaroo Feathers

Yea, it is written in the Book of Cyril...
Consider:

Matthew 24:1-34 (KJV)

1 And Jesus went out, and departed from the temple: and his disciples came to him for to shew him the buildings of the temple.
2 And Jesus said unto them, See ye not all these things? verily I say unto you, There shall not be left here one stone upon another, that shall not be thrown down.
3 And as he sat upon the mount of Olives, the disciples came unto him privately, saying, Tell us, when shall these things be? and what shall be the sign of thy coming, and of the end of the world?
4 And Jesus answered and said unto them, Take heed that no man deceive you.
5 For many shall come in my name, saying, I am Christ; and shall deceive many.
6 And ye shall hear of wars and rumours of wars: see that ye be not troubled: for all these things must come to pass, but the end is not yet.
7 For nation shall rise against nation, and kingdom against kingdom: and there shall be famines, and pestilences, and earthquakes, in divers places.
8 All these are the beginning of sorrows.
9 Then shall they deliver you up to be afflicted, and shall kill you: and ye shall be hated of all nations for my name's sake.
10 And then shall many be offended, and shall betray one another, and shall hate one another.
11 And many false prophets shall rise, and shall deceive many.
12 And because iniquity shall abound, the love of many shall wax cold.
13 But he that shall endure unto the end, the same shall be saved.
14 And this gospel of the kingdom shall be preached in all the world for a witness unto all nations; and then shall the end come.
15 When ye therefore shall see the abomination of desolation, spoken of by Daniel the prophet, stand in the holy place, (whoso readeth, let him understand.
16 Then let them which be in Judaea flee into the mountains:
17 Let him which is on the housetop not come down to take any thing out of his house:
18 Neither let him which is in the field return back to take his clothes.
19 And woe unto them that are with child, and to them that give suck in those days!
20 But pray ye that your flight be not in the winter, neither on the sabbath day:
21 For then shall be great tribulation, such as was not since the beginning of the world to this time, no, nor ever shall be.
22 And except those days should be shortened, there should no flesh be saved: but for the elect's sake those days shall be shortened.
23 Then if any man shall say unto you, Lo, here is Christ, or there; believe it not.
24 For there shall arise false Christs, and false prophets, and shall shew great signs and wonders; insomuch that, if it were possible, they shall deceive the very elect.
25 Behold, I have told you before.
26 Wherefore if they shall say unto you, Behold, he is in the desert; go not forth: behold, he is in the secret chambers; believe it not.
27 For as the lightning cometh out of the east, and shineth even unto the west; so shall also the coming of the Son of man be.
28 For wheresoever the carcase is, there will the eagles be gathered together.
29 Immediately after the tribulation of those days shall the sun be darkened, and the moon shall not give her light, and the stars shall fall from heaven, and the powers of the heavens shall be shaken:
30 And then shall appear the sign of the Son of man in heaven: and then shall all the tribes of the earth mourn, and they shall see the Son of man coming in the clouds of heaven with power and great glory.
31 And he shall send his angels with a great sound of a trumpet, and they shall gather together his elect from the four winds, from one end of heaven to the other.
32 Now learn a parable of the fig tree; When his branch is yet tender, and putteth forth leaves, ye know that summer is nigh:
33 So likewise ye, when ye shall see all these things, know that it is near, even at the doors.
34 Verily I say unto you, This generation shall not pass, till all these things be fulfilled.

Six of many other versions of Matthew 24:34.

GNT
Remember that all these things will happen before the people now living have all died.

ERV
I assure you that all these things will happen while some of the people of this time are still living.

ICB
I tell you the truth. All these things will happen while the people of this time are still living!

WE
I tell you the truth. The people who are living, will not die before all these things happen.

CEV
I can promise you that some of the people of this generation will still be alive when all this happens.

GW

“I can guarantee this truth: This generation will not disappear until all these things take place.​


So, as I see it, all the events enumerated in Matthew 24 up to verse 34 were supposed to have taken place before some of the people that where then living had died.

So, what happened? Surely Jesus wasn't telling lies or was mistaken . . . . . . . . . was he?

.

.
Which of those things do you think DIDN'T happen before some of his listeners had died?
 

Skwim

Veteran Member
Which of those things do you think DIDN'T happen before some of his listeners had died?
Well in verse 14 Jesus did say "And this gospel of the kingdom shall be preached in all the world for a witness unto all nations; and then shall the end come."

Now I know darn well the end didn't come, and I highly suspect the gospel of the kingdom wasn't preached in all the world in the few years left before the people then living had all died.

Then, of course we have the promise in verse 29 where Jesus says, " Immediately after the tribulation of those days shall the sun be darkened, and the moon shall not give her light, and the stars shall fall from heaven," which never happened. The stars are still there.

Moreover, in verse 30 Jesus says "And then shall appear the sign of the Son of man in heaven: and then shall all the tribes of the earth mourn, and they shall see the Son of man coming in the clouds of heaven with power and great glory." Now maybe there was a sign in the sky of some sort somewhere, but there's no record of all the tribes of the earth mourning, or, as far as I'm aware, any of them mourning.

And perhaps the biggest of all. Verse 21: "For then shall be great tribulation, such as was not since the beginning of the world to this time, no, nor ever shall be." which would have to have surpassed Noah's flood.

.
 
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Deeje

Avid Bible Student
Premium Member
So, as I see it, all the events enumerated in Matthew 24 up to verse 34 were supposed to have taken place before some of the people that where then living had died.

So, what happened?

Misunderstanding and misinterpretation.....that's what happened. :rolleyes:

It is not unusual to have more than one fulfillment of a prophesy. This one has a dual application.....one pertaining to the end of the Jewish system of things, and the other to the time of the end when Jesus was to return.

Verse 3 indicates that Jesus was projecting forward to the time of his return.....
"As He was sitting on the Mount of Olives, the disciples came to Him privately, saying, “Tell us, when will these things happen, and what will be the sign of Your coming, and of the end of the age?”

If you look up the word translated "coming", it is "parousia" which actually means "presence", so it was talking about his "presence" first, and then his "coming" as judge after all these events had taken place.

Since he hadn't left yet, and his return was to be thousands of years into the future, it is clear that the events he described are seen in both time periods. Daniel too pointed forward to this "time of the end". (Daniel 12:4; 9-10)

And it was not to be "the end of the world"....but "the end of the age".....the end of a specific era.

Verses 29-34 are also projected into the future when Christ is to return to judge the world.

Vs.30-31 are definitely about the future....when he gathers his "elect" who are still alive on earth at that time.....
" And then the sign of the Son of Man will appear in the sky, and then all the tribes of the earth will mourn, and they will see the Son of Man coming on the clouds of the sky with power and great glory. 31 And He will send forth His angels with a great trumpet and they will gather together His elect from the four winds, from one end of the sky to the other." (NASB)

So this is what Jesus meant when he said..."Truly I say to you, this generation will not pass away until all these things take place."
He was talking about the 'generation' of his 'elect'....the 'chosen ones' who continued to be selected right through to the end when Christ returns.

Looking for flaws in the scriptures just betrays a complete lack of knowledge and understanding of what Jesus taught. o_O
 

danieldemol

Well-Known Member
Premium Member
... from one end of the sky to the other." (NASB)
Rofl at the sky having “ends” which implies it is not spherical.

If you’re interpretation of the Bible is correct what greater proof do we need to know that Jesus had never flown through the sky, otherwise He would know it doesn’t have “ends” which would have been quite the newsworthy discovery in those days
 

sooda

Veteran Member
Consider:

Matthew 24:1-34 (KJV)

1 And Jesus went out, and departed from the temple: and his disciples came to him for to shew him the buildings of the temple.
2 And Jesus said unto them, See ye not all these things? verily I say unto you, There shall not be left here one stone upon another, that shall not be thrown down.
3 And as he sat upon the mount of Olives, the disciples came unto him privately, saying, Tell us, when shall these things be? and what shall be the sign of thy coming, and of the end of the world?
4 And Jesus answered and said unto them, Take heed that no man deceive you.
5 For many shall come in my name, saying, I am Christ; and shall deceive many.
6 And ye shall hear of wars and rumours of wars: see that ye be not troubled: for all these things must come to pass, but the end is not yet.
7 For nation shall rise against nation, and kingdom against kingdom: and there shall be famines, and pestilences, and earthquakes, in divers places.
8 All these are the beginning of sorrows.
9 Then shall they deliver you up to be afflicted, and shall kill you: and ye shall be hated of all nations for my name's sake.
10 And then shall many be offended, and shall betray one another, and shall hate one another.
11 And many false prophets shall rise, and shall deceive many.
12 And because iniquity shall abound, the love of many shall wax cold.
13 But he that shall endure unto the end, the same shall be saved.
14 And this gospel of the kingdom shall be preached in all the world for a witness unto all nations; and then shall the end come.
15 When ye therefore shall see the abomination of desolation, spoken of by Daniel the prophet, stand in the holy place, (whoso readeth, let him understand.
16 Then let them which be in Judaea flee into the mountains:
17 Let him which is on the housetop not come down to take any thing out of his house:
18 Neither let him which is in the field return back to take his clothes.
19 And woe unto them that are with child, and to them that give suck in those days!
20 But pray ye that your flight be not in the winter, neither on the sabbath day:
21 For then shall be great tribulation, such as was not since the beginning of the world to this time, no, nor ever shall be.
22 And except those days should be shortened, there should no flesh be saved: but for the elect's sake those days shall be shortened.
23 Then if any man shall say unto you, Lo, here is Christ, or there; believe it not.
24 For there shall arise false Christs, and false prophets, and shall shew great signs and wonders; insomuch that, if it were possible, they shall deceive the very elect.
25 Behold, I have told you before.
26 Wherefore if they shall say unto you, Behold, he is in the desert; go not forth: behold, he is in the secret chambers; believe it not.
27 For as the lightning cometh out of the east, and shineth even unto the west; so shall also the coming of the Son of man be.
28 For wheresoever the carcase is, there will the eagles be gathered together.
29 Immediately after the tribulation of those days shall the sun be darkened, and the moon shall not give her light, and the stars shall fall from heaven, and the powers of the heavens shall be shaken:
30 And then shall appear the sign of the Son of man in heaven: and then shall all the tribes of the earth mourn, and they shall see the Son of man coming in the clouds of heaven with power and great glory.
31 And he shall send his angels with a great sound of a trumpet, and they shall gather together his elect from the four winds, from one end of heaven to the other.
32 Now learn a parable of the fig tree; When his branch is yet tender, and putteth forth leaves, ye know that summer is nigh:
33 So likewise ye, when ye shall see all these things, know that it is near, even at the doors.
34 Verily I say unto you, This generation shall not pass, till all these things be fulfilled.

Six of many other versions of Matthew 24:34.

GNT
Remember that all these things will happen before the people now living have all died.

ERV
I assure you that all these things will happen while some of the people of this time are still living.

ICB
I tell you the truth. All these things will happen while the people of this time are still living!

WE
I tell you the truth. The people who are living, will not die before all these things happen.

CEV
I can promise you that some of the people of this generation will still be alive when all this happens.

GW

“I can guarantee this truth: This generation will not disappear until all these things take place.​


So, as I see it, all the events enumerated in Matthew 24 up to verse 34 were supposed to have taken place before some of the people that where then living had died.

So, what happened?

.

.

Mainstream Protestantism didn't tie the tribulation to the end times.. nor was the tribulation universal.

Jesus told them to flee to the mountains when they saw the abomination of desolation. History tells us they fled Jerusalem for Pella to escape the tribulation.

Until quite recently (since Scofield and Christian Zionism became popular) most Protestants were taught the tribulation was over either with the destruction of the temple or the fall off Masada within a generation of the crucifixion.
 

Laika

Well-Known Member
Premium Member
Consider:

Matthew 24:1-34 (KJV)

1 And Jesus went out, and departed from the temple: and his disciples came to him for to shew him the buildings of the temple.
2 And Jesus said unto them, See ye not all these things? verily I say unto you, There shall not be left here one stone upon another, that shall not be thrown down.
3 And as he sat upon the mount of Olives, the disciples came unto him privately, saying, Tell us, when shall these things be? and what shall be the sign of thy coming, and of the end of the world?
4 And Jesus answered and said unto them, Take heed that no man deceive you.
5 For many shall come in my name, saying, I am Christ; and shall deceive many.
6 And ye shall hear of wars and rumours of wars: see that ye be not troubled: for all these things must come to pass, but the end is not yet.
7 For nation shall rise against nation, and kingdom against kingdom: and there shall be famines, and pestilences, and earthquakes, in divers places.
8 All these are the beginning of sorrows.
9 Then shall they deliver you up to be afflicted, and shall kill you: and ye shall be hated of all nations for my name's sake.
10 And then shall many be offended, and shall betray one another, and shall hate one another.
11 And many false prophets shall rise, and shall deceive many.
12 And because iniquity shall abound, the love of many shall wax cold.
13 But he that shall endure unto the end, the same shall be saved.
14 And this gospel of the kingdom shall be preached in all the world for a witness unto all nations; and then shall the end come.
15 When ye therefore shall see the abomination of desolation, spoken of by Daniel the prophet, stand in the holy place, (whoso readeth, let him understand.
16 Then let them which be in Judaea flee into the mountains:
17 Let him which is on the housetop not come down to take any thing out of his house:
18 Neither let him which is in the field return back to take his clothes.
19 And woe unto them that are with child, and to them that give suck in those days!
20 But pray ye that your flight be not in the winter, neither on the sabbath day:
21 For then shall be great tribulation, such as was not since the beginning of the world to this time, no, nor ever shall be.
22 And except those days should be shortened, there should no flesh be saved: but for the elect's sake those days shall be shortened.
23 Then if any man shall say unto you, Lo, here is Christ, or there; believe it not.
24 For there shall arise false Christs, and false prophets, and shall shew great signs and wonders; insomuch that, if it were possible, they shall deceive the very elect.
25 Behold, I have told you before.
26 Wherefore if they shall say unto you, Behold, he is in the desert; go not forth: behold, he is in the secret chambers; believe it not.
27 For as the lightning cometh out of the east, and shineth even unto the west; so shall also the coming of the Son of man be.
28 For wheresoever the carcase is, there will the eagles be gathered together.
29 Immediately after the tribulation of those days shall the sun be darkened, and the moon shall not give her light, and the stars shall fall from heaven, and the powers of the heavens shall be shaken:
30 And then shall appear the sign of the Son of man in heaven: and then shall all the tribes of the earth mourn, and they shall see the Son of man coming in the clouds of heaven with power and great glory.
31 And he shall send his angels with a great sound of a trumpet, and they shall gather together his elect from the four winds, from one end of heaven to the other.
32 Now learn a parable of the fig tree; When his branch is yet tender, and putteth forth leaves, ye know that summer is nigh:
33 So likewise ye, when ye shall see all these things, know that it is near, even at the doors.
34 Verily I say unto you, This generation shall not pass, till all these things be fulfilled.

Six of many other versions of Matthew 24:34.

GNT
Remember that all these things will happen before the people now living have all died.

ERV
I assure you that all these things will happen while some of the people of this time are still living.

ICB
I tell you the truth. All these things will happen while the people of this time are still living!

WE
I tell you the truth. The people who are living, will not die before all these things happen.

CEV
I can promise you that some of the people of this generation will still be alive when all this happens.

GW

“I can guarantee this truth: This generation will not disappear until all these things take place.​


So, as I see it, all the events enumerated in Matthew 24 up to verse 34 were supposed to have taken place before some of the people that where then living had died.

So, what happened?

.

.

*annoying tannoy/loudspeaker noises*

"Delays in the day of judgement are expected due to leaves on the track. A Bus replacement service to the apocalypse is available. We apologise for the inconvenience of allowing your continued existence. Thank you for travelling with biblical train wreck services."

_90451139_034132492-1.jpg
 

ChristineM

"Be strong", I whispered to my coffee.
Premium Member
Consider:

Matthew 24:1-34 (KJV)

1 And Jesus went out, and departed from the temple: and his disciples came to him for to shew him the buildings of the temple.
2 And Jesus said unto them, See ye not all these things? verily I say unto you, There shall not be left here one stone upon another, that shall not be thrown down.
3 And as he sat upon the mount of Olives, the disciples came unto him privately, saying, Tell us, when shall these things be? and what shall be the sign of thy coming, and of the end of the world?
4 And Jesus answered and said unto them, Take heed that no man deceive you.
5 For many shall come in my name, saying, I am Christ; and shall deceive many.
6 And ye shall hear of wars and rumours of wars: see that ye be not troubled: for all these things must come to pass, but the end is not yet.
7 For nation shall rise against nation, and kingdom against kingdom: and there shall be famines, and pestilences, and earthquakes, in divers places.
8 All these are the beginning of sorrows.
9 Then shall they deliver you up to be afflicted, and shall kill you: and ye shall be hated of all nations for my name's sake.
10 And then shall many be offended, and shall betray one another, and shall hate one another.
11 And many false prophets shall rise, and shall deceive many.
12 And because iniquity shall abound, the love of many shall wax cold.
13 But he that shall endure unto the end, the same shall be saved.
14 And this gospel of the kingdom shall be preached in all the world for a witness unto all nations; and then shall the end come.
15 When ye therefore shall see the abomination of desolation, spoken of by Daniel the prophet, stand in the holy place, (whoso readeth, let him understand.
16 Then let them which be in Judaea flee into the mountains:
17 Let him which is on the housetop not come down to take any thing out of his house:
18 Neither let him which is in the field return back to take his clothes.
19 And woe unto them that are with child, and to them that give suck in those days!
20 But pray ye that your flight be not in the winter, neither on the sabbath day:
21 For then shall be great tribulation, such as was not since the beginning of the world to this time, no, nor ever shall be.
22 And except those days should be shortened, there should no flesh be saved: but for the elect's sake those days shall be shortened.
23 Then if any man shall say unto you, Lo, here is Christ, or there; believe it not.
24 For there shall arise false Christs, and false prophets, and shall shew great signs and wonders; insomuch that, if it were possible, they shall deceive the very elect.
25 Behold, I have told you before.
26 Wherefore if they shall say unto you, Behold, he is in the desert; go not forth: behold, he is in the secret chambers; believe it not.
27 For as the lightning cometh out of the east, and shineth even unto the west; so shall also the coming of the Son of man be.
28 For wheresoever the carcase is, there will the eagles be gathered together.
29 Immediately after the tribulation of those days shall the sun be darkened, and the moon shall not give her light, and the stars shall fall from heaven, and the powers of the heavens shall be shaken:
30 And then shall appear the sign of the Son of man in heaven: and then shall all the tribes of the earth mourn, and they shall see the Son of man coming in the clouds of heaven with power and great glory.
31 And he shall send his angels with a great sound of a trumpet, and they shall gather together his elect from the four winds, from one end of heaven to the other.
32 Now learn a parable of the fig tree; When his branch is yet tender, and putteth forth leaves, ye know that summer is nigh:
33 So likewise ye, when ye shall see all these things, know that it is near, even at the doors.
34 Verily I say unto you, This generation shall not pass, till all these things be fulfilled.

Six of many other versions of Matthew 24:34.

GNT
Remember that all these things will happen before the people now living have all died.

ERV
I assure you that all these things will happen while some of the people of this time are still living.

ICB
I tell you the truth. All these things will happen while the people of this time are still living!

WE
I tell you the truth. The people who are living, will not die before all these things happen.

CEV
I can promise you that some of the people of this generation will still be alive when all this happens.

GW

“I can guarantee this truth: This generation will not disappear until all these things take place.​


So, as I see it, all the events enumerated in Matthew 24 up to verse 34 were supposed to have taken place before some of the people that where then living had died.

So, what happened?

.

.

Delay due to snow on the tracks

Or possibly delay due to leaves on the tracks

Just 2 excuses I've heard.

But there are people keep popping up shouting "the bad times are coming and true believers should donate all their worldly goods to me"
 
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ecco

Veteran Member
Misunderstanding and misinterpretation.....that's what happened. :rolleyes:

It is not unusual to have more than one fulfillment of a prophesy. This one has a dual application.....one pertaining to the end of the Jewish system of things, and the other to the time of the end when Jesus was to return.
A P O L O G E T I C S
 

ecco

Veteran Member
So, what happened?

What really happened was that the guy who wrote "I can promise you that some of the people of this generation will still be alive when all this happens" was just a mere mortal human being pushing an agenda.

His words in the quoted paragraphs are just stories that he made up. Just like...
And behold, a severe earthquake had occurred, for an angel of the Lord descended from heaven and came and rolled away the stone and sat upon it. 3And his appearance was like lightning, and his clothing as white as snow. 4The guards shook for fear of him and became like dead men. 5The angel said to the women, “Do not be afraid; for I know that you are looking for Jesus who has been crucified. 6“He is not here, for He has risen, just as He said. Come, see the place where He was lying. 7“Go quickly and tell His disciples that He has risen from the dead; and behold, He is going ahead of you into Galilee, there you will see Him; behold, I have told you.”

8And they left the tomb quickly with fear and great joy and ran to report it to His disciples. 9And behold, Jesus met them and greeted them. And they came up and took hold of His feet and worshiped Him. 10Then Jesus said to them, “Do not be afraid; go and take word to My brethren to leave for Galilee, and there they will see Me.”​

It's all fiction, folks. Just like the stuff that Mormon Joseph Smith wrote and just like the stuff that Adventist Charles Taze Russell wrote.
 

Dave Watchman

Active Member
Consider:

Matthew 24:1-34 (KJV)

1 And Jesus went out, and departed from the temple: and his disciples came to him for to shew him the buildings of the temple.
2 And Jesus said unto them, See ye not all these things?, verily I say unto you, There shall not be left here one stone upon another, that shall not be thrown down.
3 And as he sat upon the mount of Olives, the disciples came unto him privately, saying, Tell us, when shall these things be? and what shall be the sign of thy coming, and of the end of the world?
4 And Jesus answered and said unto them, Take heed that no man deceive you.
5 For many shall come in my name, saying, I am Christ; and shall deceive many.
6 And ye shall hear of wars and rumours of wars: see that ye be not troubled: for all these things must come to pass, but the end is not yet.
7 For nation shall rise against nation, and kingdom against kingdom: and there shall be famines, and pestilences, and earthquakes, in divers places.
8 All these are the beginning of sorrows.
9 Then shall they deliver you up to be afflicted, and shall kill you: and ye shall be hated of all nations for my name's sake.
10 And then shall many be offended, and shall betray one another, and shall hate one another.
11 And many false prophets shall rise, and shall deceive many.
12 And because iniquity shall abound, the love of many shall wax cold.
13 But he that shall endure unto the end, the same shall be saved.
14 And this gospel of the kingdom shall be preached in all the world for a witness unto all nations; and then shall the end come.
15 When ye therefore shall see the abomination of desolation, spoken of by Daniel the prophet, stand in the holy place, (whoso readeth, let him understand.
16 Then let them which be in Judaea flee into the mountains:
17 Let him which is on the housetop not come down to take any thing out of his house:
18 Neither let him which is in the field return back to take his clothes.
19 And woe unto them that are with child, and to them that give suck in those days!
20 But pray ye that your flight be not in the winter, neither on the sabbath day:
21 For then shall be great tribulation, such as was not since the beginning of the world to this time, no, nor ever shall be.
22 And except those days should be shortened, there should no flesh be saved: but for the elect's sake those days shall be shortened.
23 Then if any man shall say unto you, Lo, here is Christ, or there; believe it not.
24 For there shall arise false Christs, and false prophets, and shall shew great signs and wonders; insomuch that, if it were possible, they shall deceive the very elect.
25 Behold, I have told you before.
26 Wherefore if they shall say unto you, Behold, he is in the desert; go not forth: behold, he is in the secret chambers; believe it not.
27 For as the lightning cometh out of the east, and shineth even unto the west; so shall also the coming of the Son of man be.
28 For wheresoever the carcase is, there will the eagles be gathered together.
29 Immediately after the tribulation of those days shall the sun be darkened, and the moon shall not give her light, and the stars shall fall from heaven, and the powers of the heavens shall be shaken:
30 And then shall appear the sign of the Son of man in heaven: and then shall all the tribes of the earth mourn, and they shall see the Son of man coming in the clouds of heaven with power and great glory.
31 And he shall send his angels with a great sound of a trumpet, and they shall gather together his elect from the four winds, from one end of heaven to the other.
32 Now learn a parable of the fig tree; When his branch is yet tender, and putteth forth leaves, ye know that summer is nigh:
33 So likewise ye, when ye shall see all these things, know that it is near, even at the doors.
34 Verily I say unto you, This generation shall not pass, till all these things be fulfilled.

Six of many other versions of Matthew 24:34.

GNT

Remember that all these things will happen before the people now living have all died.

ERV
I assure you that all these things will happen while some of the people of this time are still living.

ICB
I tell you the truth. All these things will happen while the people of this time are still living!

WE
I tell you the truth. The people who are living, will not die before all these things happen.

CEV
I can promise you that some of the people of this generation will still be alive when all this happens.

GW

“I can guarantee this truth: This generation will not disappear until all these things take place.

That's pretty good Skwim.

You must believe in the Man who said these things.

Otherwise, why would you be concerned about His Words?

Are you worried about it?

So, as I see it, all the events enumerated in Matthew 24 up to verse 34 were supposed to have taken place before some of the people that where then living had died.

So, what happened?

The misunderstanding, as i read it, is in people's understanding of: ALL THESE THINGS.

"See ye not all these things?​

Four of His disciples must have figured it out on the walk back up to the Mount called Olivet, about 25 minutes later, and asked Him privately about it. They must have remembered the OT verses about the Earth wobbling to and fro like a drunkard.

"The earth staggers like a drunk. It trembles like a tent in a storm. It falls and will not rise again, for the guilt of its rebellion is very heavy. - Isaiah 24:20​

I'm pretty sure Jesus was talking about ALL the structures on the planet. It's Revelation's equivalent to: "the great city is split into three parts. It means total destruction. All three thirds are destroyed. Previously, the Bible talks about a "third" being destroyed, but two thirds are spared. Or in other cases, two third's are destroyed, but one third is spared.

"A third of your people will die of the plague or perish by famine inside you;
"A third will fall by the sword outside your walls; and
"A third I will scatter to the winds and pursue with drawn sword. - Ezekiel 5:12​

My opinion is that most of the end times, the two witnesses, the abomination and the "darkened sun", are happening now, but they are going largely unrecognized. It's like a tribulum of the Matrix. People are walking around like everything is normal, but it's not.

My opinion is that it was set to begin at about the end of last year, but we froze in time at the seventh seal.
That means the 6th seal is open now. We froze in time after the "darkened sun" when the 7th seal was opened in the midst of the sixth. The opening of the seventh, in the midst of the sixth, has put us into lock-down mode. Freeze frame mode. Suspended animation. However you want to describe it. Heaven has gone silent. The prophetic voice has gone silent, for about the space of half an hour. Half a "hora". Where the half an hour, half a "hora", means a time, a season or half a year.

And this delay is on purpose. It's for an important reason. The Calvinists have this part covered somewhere in their Westminster Confession of Faith when they talk about the elect infantry, or the infantry of the elect. They had to be right and the Devil knew it. The Devil has been able to push the timing of this further out into the future, working through the composite beast, by popularizing abortion, and to a lesser extent same sex, around the world. There was just an article in the news about birth rates being the lowest in three decades. The Devil is doing a similar thing to what he was doing when Jesus was a baby, the slaughter of the innocents. We are waiting for the train to fill up, because it's not coming back for another load.


CN0Yrrn.jpg



And he couldn't kill them all. When we hit the right number of Saints, they ARE going to be marching in,.While we wait for our brothers and fellow servants to enter into the world. Jesus will not lose any that the Father gives Him. But this is one specification that only the Father knows, no man can know, not even the angels of heaven.

So when this rapture deal does take place, people, even the Christians, are going to probably be surprised how far into the end time narrative that we are. But this is just my own read on it, no need to be spooked.

Time in Bible Times
By Charles Francis Potter

The word "hour" comes from the Greek word "hora." The "Horae" were the three mythological goddesses of the seasons— spring, summer and winter. This was before autumn was recognized as a season. Their names were Eunomia, Dike and Eirene, meaning Good Order, Justice and Peace, guardians of the orderly succession of the processes of nature.

"Hora" therefore meant "season" in a very general sense, almost synonymous with "a time." It was simply a measurable lapse of time with a beginning and an end, but with no uniform length of duration. That ancient Greek meaning of the word persisted into New Testament times even after "hora" came to be used also to mean a division of the day. Consequently, when the translators came across the word "hora," they found it very difficult to deter- mine what English word to use.

Several times they translated "hora" as "day" ; several other times they rendered it "season," and they were correct in so doing. But in some verses where "hora" should have been translated "moment" or "instant," they rendered it "hour."
Even in the many places in the New Testament where the word "hora" is used to indicate a period of time somewhat corresponding to our modern hour, it should be understood by the Bible reader that the New Testament hour varied greatly in length.

There were astronomers then, to be sure, who had carefully worked out the exact length of the day from their observation of the stars and the equinoxes, and had divided the day into 24 equal parts or hours, like the ones we use today. These they measured by a clever mechanical device which they called the clepsydra, literally the water-stealer, a primitive forerunner of the clock.

But the common people of New Testament times, in their homes and in business, knew nothing of the day of 24 equal hours. To them the day was the period between sunrise and sunset, and that was divided into 12 equal parts called hours. Of course, the hours were therefore much longer in summer than in winter. In mid- winter their hour was equal to only three-fourths of one of our hours and in midsummer was as long as our hour and a quarter. But in their leisurely method of living, they did not worry about such small matters.

Practically, too, Jesus' contemporaries did not even bother very much with separate hours. They used mostly the third, sixth and ninth hours, meaning mid-forenoon, noon and mid-afternoon. As a matter of fact, the first, second, fourth, fifth, eighth and 12th hours are never mentioned in the New Testament at all. The 11th hour is referred to twice, but in the same story; and the seventh and tenth hours are mentioned but once each. And in half the places where any hour is mentioned, it is prefaced by the word "about." "About the ninth hour" is a common phrase, and meant evidently "along some time in the afternoon."
1941JRASC..35..163P Page 163
 

sooda

Veteran Member
That's pretty good Skwim.

You must believe in the Man who said these things.

Otherwise, why would you be concerned about His Words?

Are you worried about it?



The misunderstanding, as i read it, is in people's understanding of: ALL THESE THINGS.

"See ye not all these things?​

Four of His disciples must have figured it out on the walk back up to the Mount called Olivet, about 25 minutes later, and asked Him privately about it. They must have remembered the OT verses about the Earth wobbling to and fro like a drunkard.

"The earth staggers like a drunk. It trembles like a tent in a storm. It falls and will not rise again, for the guilt of its rebellion is very heavy. - Isaiah 24:20​

I'm pretty sure Jesus was talking about ALL the structures on the planet. It's Revelation's equivalent to: "the great city is split into three parts. It means total destruction. All three thirds are destroyed. Previously, the Bible talks about a "third" being destroyed, but two thirds are spared. Or in other cases, two third's are destroyed, but one third is spared.

"A third of your people will die of the plague or perish by famine inside you;
"A third will fall by the sword outside your walls; and
"A third I will scatter to the winds and pursue with drawn sword. - Ezekiel 5:12​

My opinion is that most of the end times, the two witnesses, the abomination and the "darkened sun", are happening now, but they are going largely unrecognized. It's like a tribulum of the Matrix. People are walking around like everything is normal, but it's not.

My opinion is that it was set to begin at about the end of last year, but we froze in time at the seventh seal.
That means the 6th seal is open now. We froze in time after the "darkened sun" when the 7th seal was opened in the midst of the sixth. The opening of the seventh, in the midst of the sixth, has put us into lock-down mode. Freeze frame mode. Suspended animation. However you want to describe it. Heaven has gone silent. The prophetic voice has gone silent, for about the space of half an hour. Half a "hora". Where the half an hour, half a "hora", means a time, a season or half a year.

And this delay is on purpose. It's for an important reason. The Calvinists have this part covered somewhere in their Westminster Confession of Faith when they talk about the elect infantry, or the infantry of the elect. They had to be right and the Devil knew it. The Devil has been able to push the timing of this further out into the future, working through the composite beast, by popularizing abortion, and to a lesser extent same sex, around the world. There was just an article in the news about birth rates being the lowest in three decades. The Devil is doing a similar thing to what he was doing when Jesus was a baby, the slaughter of the innocents. We are waiting for the train to fill up, because it's not coming back for another load.


CN0Yrrn.jpg



And he couldn't kill them all. When we hit the right number of Saints, they ARE going to be marching in,.While we wait for our brothers and fellow servants to enter into the world. Jesus will not lose any that the Father gives Him. But this is one specification that only the Father knows, no man can know, not even the angels of heaven.

So when this rapture deal does take place, people, even the Christians, are going to probably be surprised how far into the end time narrative that we are. But this is just my own read on it, no need to be spooked.

Time in Bible Times
By Charles Francis Potter

The word "hour" comes from the Greek word "hora." The "Horae" were the three mythological goddesses of the seasons— spring, summer and winter. This was before autumn was recognized as a season. Their names were Eunomia, Dike and Eirene, meaning Good Order, Justice and Peace, guardians of the orderly succession of the processes of nature.

"Hora" therefore meant "season" in a very general sense, almost synonymous with "a time." It was simply a measurable lapse of time with a beginning and an end, but with no uniform length of duration. That ancient Greek meaning of the word persisted into New Testament times even after "hora" came to be used also to mean a division of the day. Consequently, when the translators came across the word "hora," they found it very difficult to deter- mine what English word to use.

Several times they translated "hora" as "day" ; several other times they rendered it "season," and they were correct in so doing. But in some verses where "hora" should have been translated "moment" or "instant," they rendered it "hour."
Even in the many places in the New Testament where the word "hora" is used to indicate a period of time somewhat corresponding to our modern hour, it should be understood by the Bible reader that the New Testament hour varied greatly in length.

There were astronomers then, to be sure, who had carefully worked out the exact length of the day from their observation of the stars and the equinoxes, and had divided the day into 24 equal parts or hours, like the ones we use today. These they measured by a clever mechanical device which they called the clepsydra, literally the water-stealer, a primitive forerunner of the clock.

But the common people of New Testament times, in their homes and in business, knew nothing of the day of 24 equal hours. To them the day was the period between sunrise and sunset, and that was divided into 12 equal parts called hours. Of course, the hours were therefore much longer in summer than in winter. In mid- winter their hour was equal to only three-fourths of one of our hours and in midsummer was as long as our hour and a quarter. But in their leisurely method of living, they did not worry about such small matters.

Practically, too, Jesus' contemporaries did not even bother very much with separate hours. They used mostly the third, sixth and ninth hours, meaning mid-forenoon, noon and mid-afternoon. As a matter of fact, the first, second, fourth, fifth, eighth and 12th hours are never mentioned in the New Testament at all. The 11th hour is referred to twice, but in the same story; and the seventh and tenth hours are mentioned but once each. And in half the places where any hour is mentioned, it is prefaced by the word "about." "About the ninth hour" is a common phrase, and meant evidently "along some time in the afternoon."
1941JRASC..35..163P Page 163

Journal of Calendar Reform 1940...….
 

Wandering Monk

Well-Known Member
Consider:

Matthew 24:1-34 (KJV)

1 And Jesus went out, and departed from the temple: and his disciples came to him for to shew him the buildings of the temple.
2 And Jesus said unto them, See ye not all these things? verily I say unto you, There shall not be left here one stone upon another, that shall not be thrown down.
3 And as he sat upon the mount of Olives, the disciples came unto him privately, saying, Tell us, when shall these things be? and what shall be the sign of thy coming, and of the end of the world?
4 And Jesus answered and said unto them, Take heed that no man deceive you.
5 For many shall come in my name, saying, I am Christ; and shall deceive many.
6 And ye shall hear of wars and rumours of wars: see that ye be not troubled: for all these things must come to pass, but the end is not yet.
7 For nation shall rise against nation, and kingdom against kingdom: and there shall be famines, and pestilences, and earthquakes, in divers places.
8 All these are the beginning of sorrows.
9 Then shall they deliver you up to be afflicted, and shall kill you: and ye shall be hated of all nations for my name's sake.
10 And then shall many be offended, and shall betray one another, and shall hate one another.
11 And many false prophets shall rise, and shall deceive many.
12 And because iniquity shall abound, the love of many shall wax cold.
13 But he that shall endure unto the end, the same shall be saved.
14 And this gospel of the kingdom shall be preached in all the world for a witness unto all nations; and then shall the end come.
15 When ye therefore shall see the abomination of desolation, spoken of by Daniel the prophet, stand in the holy place, (whoso readeth, let him understand.
16 Then let them which be in Judaea flee into the mountains:
17 Let him which is on the housetop not come down to take any thing out of his house:
18 Neither let him which is in the field return back to take his clothes.
19 And woe unto them that are with child, and to them that give suck in those days!
20 But pray ye that your flight be not in the winter, neither on the sabbath day:
21 For then shall be great tribulation, such as was not since the beginning of the world to this time, no, nor ever shall be.
22 And except those days should be shortened, there should no flesh be saved: but for the elect's sake those days shall be shortened.
23 Then if any man shall say unto you, Lo, here is Christ, or there; believe it not.
24 For there shall arise false Christs, and false prophets, and shall shew great signs and wonders; insomuch that, if it were possible, they shall deceive the very elect.
25 Behold, I have told you before.
26 Wherefore if they shall say unto you, Behold, he is in the desert; go not forth: behold, he is in the secret chambers; believe it not.
27 For as the lightning cometh out of the east, and shineth even unto the west; so shall also the coming of the Son of man be.
28 For wheresoever the carcase is, there will the eagles be gathered together.
29 Immediately after the tribulation of those days shall the sun be darkened, and the moon shall not give her light, and the stars shall fall from heaven, and the powers of the heavens shall be shaken:
30 And then shall appear the sign of the Son of man in heaven: and then shall all the tribes of the earth mourn, and they shall see the Son of man coming in the clouds of heaven with power and great glory.
31 And he shall send his angels with a great sound of a trumpet, and they shall gather together his elect from the four winds, from one end of heaven to the other.
32 Now learn a parable of the fig tree; When his branch is yet tender, and putteth forth leaves, ye know that summer is nigh:
33 So likewise ye, when ye shall see all these things, know that it is near, even at the doors.
34 Verily I say unto you, This generation shall not pass, till all these things be fulfilled.

Six of many other versions of Matthew 24:34.

GNT
Remember that all these things will happen before the people now living have all died.

ERV
I assure you that all these things will happen while some of the people of this time are still living.

ICB
I tell you the truth. All these things will happen while the people of this time are still living!

WE
I tell you the truth. The people who are living, will not die before all these things happen.

CEV
I can promise you that some of the people of this generation will still be alive when all this happens.

GW

“I can guarantee this truth: This generation will not disappear until all these things take place.​


So, as I see it, all the events enumerated in Matthew 24 up to verse 34 were supposed to have taken place before some of the people that where then living had died.

So, what happened?

.

.

This will be fun watching all the apologetic tap-dancing.
 

Skwim

Veteran Member
Mainstream Protestantism didn't tie the tribulation to the end times.. nor was the tribulation universal.
Of course not, but their untying of the tribulation to the end times goes against scripture because Jesus said "This generation shall not pass, till all these things be fulfilled." The tribulation being one of the "things" to be fulfilled.

.
 

sooda

Veteran Member
Of course not, but their untying of the tribulation to the end times goes against scripture because Jesus said "This generation shall not pass, till all these things be fulfilled." The tribulation being one of the "things" to be fulfilled.

.

I know.. That was my point earlier. That the tribulation was OVER either when the Temple was destroyed or when Masada fell.
 

Skwim

Veteran Member
I know.. That was my point earlier. That the tribulation was OVER either when the Temple was destroyed or when Masada fell.
But in as much as the tribulation is described as

"21 For then shall be great tribulation, such as was not since the beginning of the world to this time, no, nor ever shall be."

It would have to be far, far greater than the mere destruction of the Temple or the fall of Masada. And as I've pointed out, it would have to have surpassed the flood of Noah.

.
 

ecco

Veteran Member
I'm pretty sure Jesus was talking about ALL the structures on the planet. It's Revelation's equivalent to: "the great city is split into three parts. It means total destruction. All three thirds are destroyed. Previously, the Bible talks about a "third" being destroyed, but two thirds are spared. Or in other cases, two third's are destroyed, but one third is spared.

"A third of your people will die of the plague or perish by famine inside you;
"A third will fall by the sword outside your walls; and
"A third I will scatter to the winds and pursue with drawn sword. - Ezekiel 5:12
My opinion is that most of the end times, the two witnesses, the abomination and the "darkened sun", are happening now, but they are going largely unrecognized. It's like a tribulum of the Matrix. People are walking around like everything is normal, but it's not.

From your post...
  • ALL the structures on the planet.
  • the great city
  • It means total destruction
  • the Bible talks about a "third" being destroyed, but two thirds are spared. Or in other cases, two third's are destroyed, but one third is spared.

Is it all the structures or is it just the great city?
Is it total destruction of just one-third (of something) or is it two-thirds (of everything) destruction?

As in all things, the bible is so vague and so self-contradictory that everything written is completely meaningless.

It's almost as though a whole bunch of men with different agendas decided to write disparate bits and parts make-believe stories at different times and then some other guys tried to patch it all together.
 

ecco

Veteran Member
The misunderstanding, as i read it, is in people's understanding of: ALL THESE THINGS.

I'm pretty sure
My opinion is
My opinion is
But this is just my own read



Riiight!
We've all got it wrong, but you have your opinions that you are pretty sure about.
And we are supposed to believe that your opinions are more correct than the guy quoted in the OP. A guy who was supposedly there.

Uh huh.
 

Dave Watchman

Active Member
From your post...
  • ALL the structures on the planet.
  • the great city
  • It means total destruction
  • the Bible talks about a "third" being destroyed, but two thirds are spared. Or in other cases, two third's are destroyed, but one third is spared.

Is it all the structures or is it just the great city?
Is it total destruction of just one-third (of something) or is it two-thirds (of everything) destruction?

As in all things, the bible is so vague and so self-contradictory that everything written is completely meaningless.

It's almost as though a whole bunch of men with different agendas decided to write disparate bits and parts make-believe stories at different times and then some other guys tried to patch it all together.

I read it as ALL the structures. ALL these things that you see.

A City is made up of Citi-Zens. Revelation is a tale of two cities, God's Holy City, and the Great City. The great city are the many nations and peoples and tongues that the composite beast rises from. They voted the thing in.

No time to do a study on the Bible's use of "thirds. God does His wrath in thirds. God gave them over, God gave them over, God gave them over. Three strikes they're out. Total reprobate minds.

Revelation mentions 12 times how a "third is destroyed. A third of the trees, a third of the fish and a third of mankind. But TWO thirds are always spared. No total destruction.

King David defeated the Moabites. He made them all lay down on the ground and counted them off by threes, killing every two. Kill, kill ,spare. Kill, kill ,spare. Kill, kill ,spare. Two thirds killed, one third spared. The Moabites went on to live as a people, no total destruction.

But when the great city is split into three parts, not a third is spared. It's total destruction. All three thirds are destroyed.

This happens at the 7th vial. After Armageddon.

Check the context;

Seventh Bowl: The Earth Utterly Shaken
copyChkboxOff.gif
Rev 16:17


Then the seventh angel poured out his bowl into the air, and a loud voice came out of the temple of heaven, from the throne, saying, “It is done!”
copyChkboxOff.gif
Rev 16:18

And there were noises and thunderings and lightnings; and there was a great earthquake, such a mighty and great earthquake as had not occurred since men were on the earth.
copyChkboxOff.gif
Rev 16:19

Now the great city was divided into three parts, and the cities of the nations fell. And great Babylon was remembered before God, to give her the cup of the wine of the fierceness of His wrath.
copyChkboxOff.gif
Rev 16:20

Then every island fled away, and the mountains were not found.
copyChkboxOff.gif
Rev 16:21

And great hail from heaven fell upon men, each hailstone about the weight of a talent. Men blasphemed God because of the plague of the hail, since that plague was exceedingly great.​

The great city was divided into three parts, and the cities of the nations fell.

See ALL these things?

Riiight!
We've all got it wrong, but you have your opinions that you are pretty sure about.
And we are supposed to believe that your opinions are more correct than the guy quoted in the OP. A guy who was supposedly there.

Uh huh.

That's why i wrote it that way.

"My opinion is...
"My opinion is...
"My opinion is...

Because it's a spooky subject.

It makes it less spooky if i just say that's my read on it.

Like the bartender said at closing time:

"You don't have to go Home,
but you can't stay here.
 
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