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How does Judaism contrast with Christianity regarding prophesy of 30 pieces of silver?

W

whirlingmerc

Well-Known Member
There are two stunning prophesies in the Old Testament

First in Jeremiah a field is bought for a weight of 17 shekels which could come to 30 pieces of silver
and it was said to point to a new covenant in Jer 32:40 where God will never turn from doing you good

Second, in Zechariah a fountain will be opened for sins and God insulted somehow by being valued at 30 pieces of silver

I can see how Christians view it as the New Testament say it was fullfilled in the betrayal of Jesus
How might Judaism view these prophesies? or other views?

30 pieces of silver is also a relatively low price for a slave
 
wizanda

wizanda

One Accepts All Religious Texts
Premium Member
whirlingmerc said:
or other views?
Click to expand...
Jeremiah 32:36-44 is a different timeline at the Messianic Age, where the Messiah establishes an everlasting Covenant; it is bad exegesis to add Field to Field.

Zechariah 11 is in Reference to Jeremiah 25:29-38, where it is in reference to the Messiah coming, who is specifically name Yehoshua (Yeshua - H3444).

Jewish ideas assume the end of Jeremiah 25 is also part of the Babylonian contexts; yet when we see Daniel 9 has the same timeline, and it literally referenced Jeremiah 25.

'There are 70 years in Babylon', and 'then after the Messiah comes', 'he is cut off' (Daniel 9:26-27), which causes then the 'Abomination' of 'Desolation'.

Zechariah 11 is the Divorce Decree (Isaiah 50:1), where they paid (30 pieces of silver) for their own Divorce, nullifying the Abrahamic (Zechariah 11:10), and Sinai (Zechariah 11:14) Covenants themselves, and placing the Curse of Moses (Deuteronomy 28) onto themselves.

Where we know from history, they eat each other's flesh at the 2nd Temple destruction (Deuteronomy 28:53-55, Zechariah 11:9).

Since the Covenants are nullified, and people join onto a wife put away, for reasons other than adultery, they commit adultery by joining her in the 'Bed of Adultery' (Matthew 5:31-32).

Matthew 5:29-30 is in reference to Zechariah 11:15-17, where the idolatrous Pharisees ("those who believe they are set apart as chosen") will mislead everyone after - getting them to commit adultery on the put away Betrothed...

Therefore it is better to pluck out our eye, and chop off our hand; then fall for the many temptations of being some supposed 'chosen people of God', before being told it by God's Messiah.

Zechariah 11:3 + Jeremiah 25:36 = "Wailing Shepherds" (H3215 H7462).

In my opinion. :innocent:
 
Last edited:
W

whirlingmerc

Well-Known Member
wizanda said:
Jeremiah 32:36-44 is a different timeline at the Messianic Age, where the Messiah establishes an everlasting Covenant; it is bad exegesis to add Field to Field.

Zechariah 11 is in Reference to Jeremiah 25:29-38, where it is in reference to the Messiah coming, who is specifically name Yehoshua (Yeshua - H3444).

Jewish ideas assume the end of Jeremiah 25 is also part of the Babylonian contexts; yet when we see Daniel 9 has the same timeline, and it literally referenced Jeremiah 25.

'There are 70 years in Babylon', and 'then after the Messiah comes', 'he is cut off' (Daniel 9:26-27), which causes then the 'Abomination' of 'Desolation'.

Zechariah 11 is the Divorce Decree (Isaiah 50:1), where they paid (30 pieces of silver) for their own Divorce, nullifying the Abrahamic (Zechariah 11:10), and Sinai (Zechariah 11:14) Covenants themselves, and placing the Curse of Moses (Deuteronomy 28) onto themselves.

Where we know from history, they eat each other's flesh at the 2nd Temple destruction (Deuteronomy 28:53-55, Zechariah 11:9).

Since the Covenants are nullified, and people join onto a wife put away, for reasons other than adultery, they commit adultery by joining her in the 'Bed of Adultery' (Matthew 5:31-32).

Matthew 5:29-30 is in reference to Zechariah 11:15-17, where the idolatrous Pharisees ("those who believe they are set apart as chosen") will mislead everyone after - getting them to commit adultery on the put away Betrothed...

Therefore it is better to pluck out our eye, and chop off our hand; then fall for the many temptations of being some supposed 'chosen people of God', before being told it by God's Messiah.

Zechariah 11:3 + Jeremiah 25:36 = "Wailing Shepherds" (H3215 H7462).

In my opinion. :innocent:
Click to expand...

So... that would be another opinion they are both Maessianic

Of course Jeremiah explicitly talks about a new testament (aka new covenant)
and Zechariah effectively sings 'there is a fountain'

There is a fountain filled with blood
Drawn from Immanuel's veins;
And sinners, plunged beneath that flood,
Lose all their guilty stains:
Lose all their guilty stains,
Lose all their guilty stains;
And sinners, plunged beneath that flood,
Lose all their guilty stains.
 
Rival

Rival

se Dex me saut.
Staff member
Premium Member
whirlingmerc said:
First in Jeremiah a field is bought for a weight of 17 shekels which could come to 30 pieces of silver
Click to expand...
The text says this:

So I bought the field from Hanamel, my uncle's son, which was in Anathoth, and weighed him the money, seven shekels and ten pieces of silver.

That's 17. Unless I'm missing something about this currency, that's not 30 pieces.
 
Harel13

Harel13

Am Yisrael Chai
Staff member
Premium Member
whirlingmerc said:
First in Jeremiah a field is bought for a weight of 17 shekels which could come to 30 pieces of silver
and it was said to point to a new covenant in Jer 32:40 where God will never turn from doing you good
Click to expand...
I fail to see how you got from 17 silver shekels to thirty pieces of silver. 17 silver shekels are 17 pieces of silver, so I don't see the connection between that deal and a different one, especially considering that Jeremiah was commanded by God to buy a field and in the NT, Judah Iscariot sold out Jesus. Two different concepts.
The basic idea presented in Jeremiah is that though the Nation of Israel must be punished - the punishment will not last forever and their property in the Land of Israel will still be worth something - once they return - and they will (and did) return.
 
W

whirlingmerc

Well-Known Member
Harel13 said:
I fail to see how you got from 17 silver shekels to thirty pieces of silver. 17 silver shekels are 17 pieces of silver, so I don't see the connection between that deal and a different one, especially considering that Jeremiah was commanded by God to buy a field and in the NT, Judah Iscariot sold out Jesus. Two different concepts.
The basic idea presented in Jeremiah is that though the Nation of Israel must be punished - the punishment will not last forever and their property in the Land of Israel will still be worth something - once they return - and they will (and did) return.
Click to expand...

Shekels were at that time a weight and Jeremiah explicitly said it was by weight not quantity.
A weight of 17 shekels can be a quantity of 30 pieces.

Today a shekel is a coin, not so back then.
 
Rival

Rival

se Dex me saut.
Staff member
Premium Member
Harel13 said:
It's alright that the NT uses the phrase "thirty pieces of silver", but who says that has anything to do with Jeremiah's story?
Click to expand...
Absolutely nothing. Unless the NT itself purports that it has, but I can't remember. I haven't been a Christian since Kislev 5777 :p
 
Harel13

Harel13

Am Yisrael Chai
Staff member
Premium Member
Harel13 said:
Can be. Anything "can be". Who knows, maybe 17 shekels equal 2000?
Click to expand...
Personally, I think the 20 pieces of silver in Joseph's story in Genesis would've made more sense as a Jesussianic prophecy. Closer to thirty and has to do with selling out someone...
 
Rival

Rival

se Dex me saut.
Staff member
Premium Member
Tumah said:
Is there even any other way???
Click to expand...
No!! I'm not going to feast and sit in my totally not Haredi themed pyjamas that don't have black pants a white t-shirt and say Brooklyn on them.

Who am I kidding. I'm going to do exactly that.
 
Tumah

Tumah

Veteran Member
Rival said:
No!! I'm not going to feast and sit in my totally not Haredi themed pyjamas that don't have black pants a white t-shirt and say Brooklyn on them.

Who am I kidding. I'm going to do exactly that.
Click to expand...
You're going to need wine, bread, fish, soup, a meat or chicken dish and at least two side dishes.
 
Rival

Rival

se Dex me saut.
Staff member
Premium Member
Tumah said:
You're going to need wine, bread, fish, soup, a meat or chicken dish and at least two side dishes.
Click to expand...
'Meat or chicken' :D

No worries, there'll be chicken. And liver, probably.

And you do realise a like spree on your posts.
 
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