IndigoChild5559
Loving God and my neighbor as myself.
What second coming of the messiah? The messiah hasn't even come a first time yet. Or at least no one has fulfilled the prophecies yet.
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What will the Second Coming of Christ look like?
- Thread starter loverofhumanity
- Start date
ok so you guys are waiting for both Messiah Ben Joseph and Messiah Ben David. Fair enough for you you’re still waiting. For me I believe theyve come and gone.
IndigoChild5559
Loving God and my neighbor as myself.
What two messiahs? There is just one that we are waiting for. The "two messiah" thing is something I personally only hear Christians bring up. To read what mainstream Judaism actually teaches about what "messiah" (annointed) means, and who messiah ben Yosef is in the Talmud, here is a write up from the Jews for Judaism website: Who is the Moshiach ben Yosef?
Basically, most do not think he will die, and of those who think he will die, they certainly do not think it will be a sacrifice. Rather it will be a tragedy that happens to Israel. In any case, absolutely no Jew (except those who have become Christians) teaches that messiah ben Joseph or messiah men David remove the obligation to obey the 613 mitzvot.
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IndigoChild5559
Loving God and my neighbor as myself.
oops
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Who is Messiah Ben David then?
IndigoChild5559
Loving God and my neighbor as myself.
The Messiah descneded from King David, who will rule at the end of days. He will usher in an era of world peace, bring all Jews back to the land of Israel, rule from Jerusalem (IOW be David), etc. IOW he is the ruler of Israel, and recognized by all the world, during the messianic age.
Thank you, didn't know where the Rabbinic reasoning had come from for the Two Messiah's: 'Riding on an ***' (1st - Zechariah 9:9), and 'Coming on a Cloud' (2nd - Daniel 7:13).
Since people don't use donkeys any more for transport, it is highly unlikely to happen in this time someone will ride into Jerusalem on a ***; other than someone trying to make prophecy fit.
Thus this happened in the past of riding into Jerusalem with palm branches, with Yehoshua son of Yoseph; as a clear name referencing of the brothers putting the one favoured by the father into a Pit... We can prove this happened before the 2nd temple destruction in Zechariah 11.
We are now speaking on a cloud, and electricity via Wi-Fi, satellites, etc...
The idea of the 'Messengers/Angels' of the Lord (Exodus 23:20-23) was fulfilled by Yehoshua son of Nun (Joshua 3:10); therefore some of us are the Angels of the Lord, coming on the Clouds (Internet) to remove false religion.
When we understand the prophetic fulfilments that have already taken place: Judah should be already mourning for having executed King David (Psalms 89:19-21) in the form of Yehoshua (Isaiah 52:10-14).https://jewsforjudaism.org/knowledge/articles/moshiach-ben-yosef/ said:
When King David returns on the Clouds (Internet) in Zechariah 12:7-10, we recognize what we've done to Zion (our king, and our people).
Judah's fake leaders destroyed Judah by making up the idol 'jesus' (John, Paul, and Simon), and rejecting King David as Yehoshua son of Yoseph.
In my opinion.
You have a valid point, lots of it has happened, the Jews have been brought back, and it is possible if we could educate them, the Word could be a Fire to help educate the world as the promised Messiah.
Baha'i have to accept their own prophecies earlier than one thousand years, as God said the time would come early, when people didn't expect it, and to accept the King who works for all his people.
"How great the blessedness that awaiteth the king who will arise to aid My Cause in My kingdom, who will detach himself from all else but Me! Such a king is numbered with the companions of the Crimson Ark--the Ark which God hath prepared for the people of Bahá. All must glorify his name, must reverence his station, and aid him to unlock the cities with the keys of My Name, the omnipotent Protector of all that inhabit the visible and invisible kingdoms. Such a king is the very eye of mankind, the luminous ornament on the brow of creation, the fountainhead of blessings unto the whole world. Offer up, O people of Bahá, your substance, nay your very lives, for his assistance." - (Bahá'u'lláh, Kitáb-i-Aqdas, 1873)
'Cities with the keys of My Name' = Zion is the name of the New Jerusalem, Zan is the Flock (ציון ▬ צאן)... Zanda means to 'Know the Flock', and can mean 'humility' (צנע).
Variations of Zan-da were also a name of God in many cultures around the world.
'Such a king is the very eye of mankind' - Zinda Allah means 'in the Sight of the God Most High'.
Jaazaniah means the 'Lord Shall Hear'.
Revelation 3:12 He who overcomes, I will make him a pillar (Sandalphon) in the temple of my God, and he will go out from there no more. I will write on him the name of my God, and the name of the city of my God (Zion - Psalms 146:10, Psalms 147:12, Isaiah 52:7), the new Jerusalem, which comes down out of heaven from my God, and my own new name (Sananda).
The same is stated in Jewish ideas as well, that literally people need to understand these things to prevent further destructions:
'If the Jewish people will repent, then the horrible things described will not come and the end-times will be inaugurated in a wondrous way. If not, then there will be wars and humility.' - Who is the Moshiach ben Yosef?
Therefore the choice is yours accept Baha'u'llah's teachings that another King will come, who will then lead the people into following his ideas, as stated in the links posted or reject his teachings by rejecting my prophetic fulfilment, which can be substantiated from texts globally with my specific name referenced within them?
In my opinion.
You have a valid point, lots of it has happened, the Jews have been brought back, and it is possible if we could educate them, the Word could be a Fire to help educate the world as the promised Messiah.
Baha'i have to accept their own prophecies earlier than one thousand years, as God said the time would come early, when people didn't expect it, and to accept the King who works for all his people.
"How great the blessedness that awaiteth the king who will arise to aid My Cause in My kingdom, who will detach himself from all else but Me! Such a king is numbered with the companions of the Crimson Ark--the Ark which God hath prepared for the people of Bahá. All must glorify his name, must reverence his station, and aid him to unlock the cities with the keys of My Name, the omnipotent Protector of all that inhabit the visible and invisible kingdoms. Such a king is the very eye of mankind, the luminous ornament on the brow of creation, the fountainhead of blessings unto the whole world. Offer up, O people of Bahá, your substance, nay your very lives, for his assistance." - (Bahá'u'lláh, Kitáb-i-Aqdas, 1873)
'Cities with the keys of My Name' = Zion is the name of the New Jerusalem, Zan is the Flock (ציון ▬ צאן)... Zanda means to 'Know the Flock', and can mean 'humility' (צנע).
Variations of Zan-da were also a name of God in many cultures around the world.
'Such a king is the very eye of mankind' - Zinda Allah means 'in the Sight of the God Most High'.
Jaazaniah means the 'Lord Shall Hear'.
Revelation 3:12 He who overcomes, I will make him a pillar (Sandalphon) in the temple of my God, and he will go out from there no more. I will write on him the name of my God, and the name of the city of my God (Zion - Psalms 146:10, Psalms 147:12, Isaiah 52:7), the new Jerusalem, which comes down out of heaven from my God, and my own new name (Sananda).
The same is stated in Jewish ideas as well, that literally people need to understand these things to prevent further destructions:
'If the Jewish people will repent, then the horrible things described will not come and the end-times will be inaugurated in a wondrous way. If not, then there will be wars and humility.' - Who is the Moshiach ben Yosef?
Therefore the choice is yours accept Baha'u'llah's teachings that another King will come, who will then lead the people into following his ideas, as stated in the links posted or reject his teachings by rejecting my prophetic fulfilment, which can be substantiated from texts globally with my specific name referenced within them?
In my opinion.
Of course a king shall appear but He will promote the Cause through the Universal House of Justice and their goals and plans and promote what they recommend. Promoting the Cause means to promote the plans of the House of Justice not just his own agenda.
Oh my word - You're as bad as all the other religious groups waiting for a King of your own making:
Muslims, Jews, Christians wait for a Messiah to confirm their opinions.
Hindus, Buddhist, Sikhs, wait for a Kalki, Skanda to confirm their opinions.
Started explaining dimensional quantum physics structuring from the Commandments as Jacob's Ladder - so that people might understand reality as a whole.
Explained all the forms of Yoga and Chakras, as levels of biological anatomy - which leads us to understanding enlightenment.
Fixed the religious problems in the New Testament (John, Paul, and Simon); to end the worship of the Cross, and eating of Swine.
Now personally would like to fix the Abrahamic Divide on here for World Peace; yet that needs 'a mountain of people gathered together' (Har MegGido) - accepting the Messiah is here, for it to work.
As a prophet or messenger in this world, would you go to any organization individually trusting them considering the history of prophetic encounters?
In my opinion.
IndigoChild5559
Loving God and my neighbor as myself.
No, none of what I just listed has happened yet. That's why it is so obvious that the messiah has not come yet. Please look at each of the things I listed and tell me which you think has happened already:
1 Worldwide peace between the nations.
2. Bringing ALL the Jews back into the land of Isael.
3. Being David (aka ruling from Jerusalem/being the King of Israel)
btw, I could have listed other unfulfilled prophecies, but these are the ones I chose to list, so they are the ones you said some are fulfilled.
Where does it state in the Bible that these things are an event that happens instantly magically overnight as opposed to a process that is initiated and happens over time once the Messiah comes? I think where many have misread the signs is that they expect an instantaneous event and so are waiting for the miraculous instead of a Great Spiritual Being. Like the Jews they were awaiting a King and got the Son of a carpenter so denied Jesus not realising that Jesus was a heavenly not an earthly king. So to this day they wait and have missed His first coming.
“Every eye shall see Him” means eventually all on earth will believe in Him not instantly in a 24 hour period and that peace will be established in the 1,000 years according to Revelation Satan is chained up again not in a 24 hour period.
Interpreting the Bible like the Jews did only leads to missing the Messiah.
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Zechariah 14:6-7 It will happen in that day, that there will not be light, cold, or frost. (7) It will be a unique day which is known to Yahavah; not day, and not night; but it will come to pass, that at evening time there will be light.
Zechariah 12:9 It will happen in that day, that I will seek to destroy all the nations that come against Jerusalem.
Isaiah 24:20-22 The earth will stagger like a drunken man, and will sway back and forth like a hammock. Its disobedience will be heavy on it, and it will fall and not rise again. (21) It shall happen in that day that Yahavah will punish the army of the high ones on high, and the kings of the earth on the earth. (22) They shall be gathered together, as prisoners are gathered in the pit, and shall be shut up in the prison; and after many days shall they be visited.
Ezekiel 38:19 For in my jealousy and in the fire of my wrath I have spoken. Surely in that day there will be a great shaking in the land of Israel...
The Day of the Lord coming with a Holy Cleansing Fire is throughout the Bible, Islam, Hindu, Zoroastrian texts, etc.
In our opinion.
So using that logic, you would be saying no Jew would beleive that God does as God so Wills. They one and all see that God needs to support all that a Jew thinks is right?
Regards Tony
Zechariah 14:6-7 It will happen in that day, that there will not be light, cold, or frost. (7) It will be a unique day which is known to Yahavah; not day, and not night; but it will come to pass, that at evening time there will be light.
Zechariah 12:9 It will happen in that day, that I will seek to destroy all the nations that come against Jerusalem.
Isaiah 24:20-22 The earth will stagger like a drunken man, and will sway back and forth like a hammock. Its disobedience will be heavy on it, and it will fall and not rise again. (21) It shall happen in that day that Yahavah will punish the army of the high ones on high, and the kings of the earth on the earth. (22) They shall be gathered together, as prisoners are gathered in the pit, and shall be shut up in the prison; and after many days shall they be visited.
Ezekiel 38:19 For in my jealousy and in the fire of my wrath I have spoken. Surely in that day there will be a great shaking in the land of Israel...
The Day of the Lord coming with a Holy Cleansing Fire is throughout the Bible, Islam, Hindu, Zoroastrian texts, etc.
In our opinion.
A day of the Lord is a thousand years (2Peter 3:8) so terms like day and evening should be viewed in that context. All these things are very possible to happen over such a period but in an instant or second, that is what the Jews thought yet it took centuries before Christ was enthroned in the hearts of men and the kings of the earth bowed down before Him.
Also in Revelation it says that satan will be chained up for a thousand years which is the duration of the Revelation of Baha’u’llah.
IndigoChild5559
Loving God and my neighbor as myself.
It says that the messiah will accomplish these things. Therefore they will happen within the lifetime of one man -- the messiah. So either someone fulfills them, and is the messiah, or they have not, and they are not the messiah.
I'm not really interested in anything that any scriptures other than the Tanakh have to say. Revelation may be important to you. It is nothing but an intellectual curiosity to me, having no spiritual authority at all.
IndigoChild5559
Loving God and my neighbor as myself.
What we are actually saying is that God doesn't break his covenants and promises. When God says a covenant is everlasting, it is everlasting. Thus, nothing can abridge the Jewish obligation to obey the 613 mitzvot until the world to come, when we shall have New Covenant.
The Messiah of course will accomplish all these things I believe during the lifetime of His Dispensation but not in the life of a human being.
Simon was called a stumbling stone (peter) because he would mislead everyone (Zechariah 3:9).
Though agree God's timeline in Heaven is different to here; it doesn't mean the Great Tribulation last one thousand years, the Day of Cleansing which ends the Great Tribulation by God's power lasts One Day (Revelation 18:8).
Baha'i prophesied the one to come before the Great Tribulation, if the nations didn't adopt his teachings about disarmament, and that Baha'i are meant to support the coming Messiah.
In my opinion.