Subduction Zone
Veteran Member
So far once Trump throws someone under the bus they tend to remain there. If Giuliani had any intelligence at all he would already by sending very quiet feelers out about a plea deal.
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A CNN commentator today indicates that Republican Representative Castor asked a question that suggests that the groundwork is being laid to make Guliani to be the bad guy in this whole bribery effort.
https://www.cnn.com/videos/politics...stimony-trump-impeachment-king-tapper-vpx.cnnWatch through to end of video...
King: Sondland has guaranteed Trump's impeachment - CNN Video
The question for this thread...will that work? And for whom?
What has that got to do with anything? Nothing as far as I can see. He will do what he will do if Guiliani is convicted and he's still POTUS. Or do you assert he has to pardon everyone or no one?
Ruby is the only thing Dems have. All Dem and witness assumptions are about Ruby.
This is a distortion. Sondland said Trump told him to talk to Rudy not follow Rudy's order. That is not evidence of Trump endorsing anything Rudy proposed. Sondland didn't confirm with his superior which is Sondland's error. When he did Trump told him the opposite. More so there was no meeting resulting from Rudy said.
Nope as Sondland not following the chain of command is his problem.
I dont understand how you can not see that Trump was running his bribery through a client privilege covered lawyer willing to do what career ambassadors knew to be unethical and against good foreign policy?
Trump used a lawyer to hide what he knew would be found unacceptible by those with the power to do something about it.
I am confident that a shark like Guliani went into this with his eyes wide open. And that he has arranged for a golden parachute that could covered Manhattan.
Tom
You are assuming Ruby's proposals were accepted by Trump without evidence.
Assumption
On the July 25th call where Trump asks for a favor...how many times did he direct Zelensky to talk to Giuliani?
Why would he do that...he's the POTUS for crying out loud?
Why direct this "perfect conversation" to be touted through a personal attorney at his expense when he has an ambassadorial staff to handle this sort of thing?
Why put that one call on a high security server?
Why remove content with ellipses from a rough transcript when he could have simply released the full transcript?
Timeline:
Near to 7/18: Ukraine funds frozen
7/25: Trump directs Zelensky to talk to Trump's lawyer repeatedly
Late July: Whistleblower report on 7/25 call reaches Congress
Late July: It is publicly realized that Congress has informally started Impeachment proceedings and that hearings would take place in September
9/11: Some but not all Ukrainian funds are released
10/4: Ukraine prosecutor announces review of Burisma cases
Ukraine to review cases linked to founder of firm that employed Biden's son
So let's see....Sondland said Trump told him to talk to Rudy not follow Rudy's order. That is not evidence of Trump endorsing anything Rudy proposed.
He said he kept Sect. Pompeo in the loop. Guess we should get Pompeo to testify, eh?Sondland didn't confirm with his superior which is Sondland's error.
Yeah, a full week after the WH had been informed by the DNI that the scheme had been exposed and a whistleblower complaint had been filed.When he did Trump told him the opposite.
That's ignoring all the other DIRECT evidence about what went down.Ruby is key. He needs to testify. Everything goes back to him.
You're making Trump sound a lot like Abrahamic God.Talking to does not mean accept what Ruby says. Ruby is outside the chain of command.
As Rudy is the one putting stupid ideas in Trump's head.
You're making Trump sound a lot like Abrahamic God.
Supposedly powerful. But when things don't work out, it's all about the underlings. From angels to serpents to A&E, it's all their fault. Can't be His, because He's perfect.
Tom
A CNN commentator today indicates that Republican Representative Castor asked a question that suggests that the groundwork is being laid to make Guliani to be the bad guy in this whole bribery effort.
Watch through to end of video...
King: Sondland has guaranteed Trump's impeachment - CNN Video
The question for this thread...will that work? And for whom?
It's been his MO for a long time.Trump has and will toss anybody under the bus necessary to protect himself from his own impulsive actions.
You're making Trump sound a lot like Abrahamic God.
Supposedly powerful. But when things don't work out, it's all about the underlings. From angels to serpents to A&E, it's all their fault. Can't be His, because He's perfect.
Tom
That's ignoring all the other DIRECT evidence about what went down.
So let's see....
The President tells the EU Ambassador to work with the President's personal lawyer on Ukraine. That alone raises an instant question...why the President's personal lawyer?
Giuliani wasn't a government employee, and he's contradicted himself on the role he was playing (he's said he was working in Ukraine on behalf of the State Dept., and said he was working as Trump's personal lawyer). There's also the question of why the EU Ambassador is working on Ukraine, since Ukraine isn't in the EU.
Anyways, Sondland does as he's directed and goes to Giuliani to begin working on Ukraine.
Giuliani tells him the President wants them to get Ukraine to make a public announcement about investigating the Russian propaganda narrative about 2016, and investigating Burisma and the Bidens (important to note that Giuliani advocated both on Fox News).
Then later the President, in his second phone call with the President of Ukraine tells him "I need a favor though..." and then proceeds to try and get the President of Ukraine to investigate the 2016 Russian propaganda narrative, and investigate Burisma and the Bidens.
Rudy Giuliani proposed to Sondland that they get Ukraine to announce two investigations, and not long after that Trump directly tells Zelenskiy he'd like him to conduct the exact same two investigations.
And we also have multiple witnesses who heard Trump asking Sondland if Ukraine was going to do the investigations.
And you're arguing there's no evidence linking what Giuliani proposed and Trump? Where the heck have you been?
He said he kept Sect. Pompeo in the loop. Guess we should get Pompeo to testify, eh?
Yeah, a full week after the WH had been informed by the DNI that the scheme had been exposed and a whistleblower complaint had been filed.
LOL.....now that's hilarious! I can just see Trump now....."I never told Ambassador Sondland to "work with" Giuliani, I only told him to "talk to" him."He said talk to not work with. Try again.
Hilarious! That this is what you've been reduced to speaks volumes.Talk to not follow orders.
Um.....no. It's an in-person, first-hand account.Which is hearsay.
Not if he's leveraging Congressionally authorized military aid to get a country to help him with his reelection.And 2016. POTUS can request investigations.
Which POTUS can request.
??????? Where the heck have you been? Are you even paying attention to the hearings? CLICK HERENot one said that. Sondland had no such order nor question from Trump.
We already do. We have a transcript of the phone call where Trump specifically asks Zelenskiy to investigate the Bidens as well as the Russian propaganda narrative about 2016. We also have a first-hand account of someone hearing Trump checking in with Sondland on whether the Ukrainians were going to do the investigations.Hard evidence. If my lawyer robs a store I am not respond for the lawyer's action. You must provide evidence I ordered or endorsed the action. Try again.
It's Rudy, not Ruby.Yes he should as should Ruby.
It is not speculation that Trump's "I want nothing" message was after the WH had been notified of the whistleblower complaint. It's documented fact.You are projecting your speculation as fact.