COL 2:16 And The Sabbath - Are You Being Told The Truth?

Redemptionsong · Nov 20, 2019

Crosstian said:
Jesus, in Matthew 19:16-22, listed certain commandments from the second Table of the Ten Commandments, since the issue with the rich young ruler, was his 'love of neighbour' (Leviticus 19:17-18; Matthew 19:19), notice in vss 18-19:

[6] Thou shalt do not murder

[7] Thou shalt not commit adultery

[8] Thou shalt not steal

[9] Thou shalt not bear false witness

[5] Honour thy father and thy mother

Jesus was indirectly, or discreetly, pointing this young man, to the 10th commandment. Look at the order, in which Jesus specifically gave, 6,7,8,9 & 5. The mind of the young man, knowing the Law of God, would have immediately noticed 10 was not spoken. Jesus addressed this in the following verse:

Mat 19:20 The young man saith unto him, All these things have I kept from my youth up: what lack I yet?
Mat 19:21 Jesus said unto him, If thou wilt be perfect, go and sell that thou hast, and give to the poor, and thou shalt have treasure in heaven: and come and follow me.
Mat 19:22 But when the young man heard that saying, he went away sorrowful: for he had great possessions.

The man's issue was covetousness, the Tenth Commandment. While claiming to have kept God's Law, he was in actuality breaking all of it (as James points out, and Paul), through covetousness (see Romans 7:7) and withholding from his near-brethren (neighbours).

You seem to point to the fact that Jesus did not list the Sabbath commandment. Jesus also didn't mention anything about the first 3 commandments (not just the 4th), as in not having other Gods, or idols, or taking the name of the Lord in vain either in these passages. Should they (1-3) be relegated to the same position that you have for sabbath-keeping (4)? The argument is self-refuting, for in so doing, a person would then not have to obey any laws of the LORD (JEHOVAH Elohiym), as they all came from Him, being a transcript of His perfect character (Exodus 33:12-12, 34:1-9, 20:5-7).

Jesus said,

Joh 14:15 If ye love me, keep my commandments.

Exo 20:6 And shewing mercy unto thousands of them that love me, and keep my commandments.

Jesus touched on the real issue.

The first three commandments were all covered in the initial comments made by Jesus. Jesus says to this young Jew, there is none good but one, that is, God: but if thou wilt enter into life, keep the commandments.

How can you 'keep the commandments' if you don't first accept the oneness of God (Deuteronomy 6:4)? The first three commandments are covered by acceptance of the oneness and goodness of God.

What is also interesting, and relevant, is that even after telling the young man to sell his possessions he says, AND COME AND FOLLOW ME.

We also know that elsewhere in Matthew's Gospel (Matthew 22:34-40) that Jesus summarised the law by speaking of the two great commandments; the commandment to love God, and the commandment to love our neighbour. Jesus said that 'On these two commandments hang all the law and the prophets.'

Now, I would like you to notice that the Mosaic law places the emphasis on 'THOU'. THOU SHALT. Where is the grace in this? 'Thou shalt' is a work that you are required to DO.

So, I ask you Crosstian, do YOU love God and your neighbour?
Then, have you never looked upon a woman/man to lust after him/her? (Matthew 5:28)

I admit my sin, Crosstian. I have sinned, and have fallen short of the glory of God. I do not claim that MY love and MY efforts are good enough to please God. I am an utter failure!

This is why I rely on GRACE, God's free gift of salvation to those who receive and follow the SPIRIT of Christ. Jesus gave a NEW COMMANDMENT which says, 'love one another, as I have loved you.' This is a NEW commandment because it does not say 'love with your own strength', it says 'love with my strength'.

MY FAITH takes me to Christ, but the faith of the Holy Spirit is HIS FAITH in me.(See 1 Corinthians 12:9)

There is a world of difference between living by GRACE and living by WORKS. It's the difference between allowing God to have his Way, and you determining to do the works of righteousness yourself.

If you choose the way of WORKS, then you must expect to be judged accordingly. This is not the Way of a born-again believer. We rely wholly on the leading of the Lord through the Holy Spirit (which is confirmed by the written Word).

Crosstian · Nov 20, 2019

Redemptionsong said:
The first three commandments were all covered in the initial comments made by Jesus. Jesus says to this young Jew, there is none good but one, that is, God: but if thou wilt enter into life, keep the commandments....

Which "God" was Jesus referring to? There are "lords many", and "gods many". When Jesus said, "keep the commandments", and begins to list the latter part of the Table, the Ten Commandments (Exodus 34:28; Deuteronomy 4:13, 10:4), which are a "whole" Law (Ecclesiastes 12:13-14), you seem to "separate" that which God has "joined together", is this correct?

Crosstian · Nov 20, 2019

Redemptionsong said:
,...

I admit my sin, Crosstian. I have sinned, and have fallen short of the glory of God. I do not claim that MY love and MY efforts are good enough to please God. I am an utter failure!...

How did you know you were a sinner?

Paul said:

Rom_7:7 What shall we say then? Is the law sin? God forbid. Nay, I had not known sin, but by the law: for I had not known lust, except the law had said, Thou shalt not covet.

Therefore, so you admit that the same Law is still in existence today?

Was it by the Holy Ghost?

Joh_16:8 And when he is come, he will reprove the world of sin, and of righteousness, and of judgment:

What did John say was the definition of "sin", at all times:?

1Jn 3:4 Whosoever committeth sin transgresseth also the law: for sin is the transgression of the law.

Since you said you were a "sinner", then how are you saved, and from what were you saved?

Mat 1:21 And she shall bring forth a son, and thou shalt call his name JESUS: for he shall save his people from their sins.

Are you saved from the "sins"?

Rom_6:13 Neither yield ye your members as instruments of unrighteousness unto sin: but yield yourselves unto God, as those that are alive from the dead, and your members as instruments of righteousness unto God.

Rom_8:4 That the righteousness of the law might be fulfilled in us, who walk not after the flesh, but after the Spirit.

Crosstian · Nov 20, 2019

Redemptionsong said:
T...What is also interesting, and relevant, is that even after telling the young man to sell his possessions he says, AND COME AND FOLLOW ME....

'love one another, as I have loved you.' ...

How did Jesus love us?:

Joh_15:10 If ye keep my commandments, ye shall abide in my love; even as I have kept my Father's commandments, and abide in his love.

Oh, Jesus kept the Commandments of His Father, that's how He loved us. How did Jesus live?

1Jn_3:5 And ye know that he was manifested to take away our sins; and in him is no sin.

Luk 4:14 And Jesus returned in the power of the Spirit into Galilee: and there went out a fame of him through all the region round about.
Luk 4:15 And he taught in their synagogues, being glorified of all.
Luk 4:16 And he came to Nazareth, where he had been brought up: and, as his custom was, he went into the synagogue on the sabbath day, and stood up for to read.
Luk 4:17 And there was delivered unto him the book of the prophet Esaias. And when he had opened the book, he found the place where it was written,
Luk 4:18 The Spirit of the Lord is upon me, because he hath anointed me to preach the gospel to the poor; he hath sent me to heal the brokenhearted, to preach deliverance to the captives, and recovering of sight to the blind, to set at liberty them that are bruised,
Luk 4:19 To preach the acceptable year of the Lord.
Luk 4:20 And he closed the book, and he gave it again to the minister, and sat down. And the eyes of all them that were in the synagogue were fastened on him.
Luk 4:21 And he began to say unto them, This day is this scripture fulfilled in your ears.

So, Jesus lived a life without "sin" (1 John 3:4), and Jesus keep the "commandments", and Jesus, the most Holy Spirit filled person there ever was, who preached the Gospel, and deliverance from the bondage of sin, satan and selfishness, kept the sabbath, and it was in this day (the 7th day of the LORD) that the scripture was fulfilled.

Got it.

Crosstian · Nov 20, 2019

Redemptionsong said:
...\We also know that elsewhere in Matthew's Gospel (Matthew 22:34-40) that Jesus summarised the law by speaking of the two great commandments; the commandment to love God, and the commandment to love our neighbour. Jesus said that 'On these two commandments hang all the law and the prophets.'...

Oh, you mean the same two great commandments found in the OT?

Deu 6:5 And thou shalt love the LORD thy God with all thine heart, and with all thy soul, and with all thy might.

Lev 19:17 Thou shalt not hate thy brother in thine heart: thou shalt in any wise rebuke thy neighbour, and not suffer sin upon him.
Lev 19:18 Thou shalt not avenge, nor bear any grudge against the children of thy people, but thou shalt love thy neighbour as thyself: I am the LORD.

Both of which are in the context of the Ten Commandments, which transgression of is "sin"?

Deu 6:1 Now these are the commandments, the statutes, and the judgments, which the LORD your God commanded to teach you, that ye might do them in the land whither ye go to possess it:

Deu 6:6 And these words, which I command thee this day, shall be in thine heart:

"These words"? What words? Oh, you mean the context of Deuteronomy 5, the Ten Commandments, which are the definition of Love God and Neighbour?

Deu 5:4 The LORD talked with you face to face in the mount out of the midst of the fire,
Deu 5:5 (I stood between the LORD and you at that time, to shew you the word of the LORD: for ye were afraid by reason of the fire, and went not up into the mount

saying,
Deu 5:6 I am the LORD thy God, which brought thee out of the land of Egypt, from the house of bondage.
Deu 5:7 Thou shalt have none other gods before me.
Deu 5:8 Thou shalt not make thee any graven image, or any likeness of any thing that is in heaven above, or that is in the earth beneath, or that is in the waters beneath the earth:
Deu 5:9 Thou shalt not bow down thyself unto them, nor serve them: for I the LORD thy God am a jealous God, visiting the iniquity of the fathers upon the children unto the third and fourth generation of them that hate me,
Deu 5:10 And shewing mercy unto thousands of them that love me and keep my commandments.
Deu 5:11 Thou shalt not take the name of the LORD thy God in vain: for the LORD will not hold him guiltless that taketh his name in vain.
Deu 5:12 Keep the sabbath day to sanctify it, as the LORD thy God hath commanded thee.
Deu 5:13 Six days thou shalt labour, and do all thy work:
Deu 5:14 But the seventh day is the sabbath of the LORD thy God: in it thou shalt not do any work, thou, nor thy son, nor thy daughter, nor thy manservant, nor thy maidservant, nor thine ox, nor thine ***, nor any of thy cattle, nor thy stranger that is within thy gates; that thy manservant and thy maidservant may rest as well as thou.
Deu 5:15 And remember that thou wast a servant in the land of Egypt, and that the LORD thy God brought thee out thence through a mighty hand and by a stretched out arm: therefore the LORD thy God commanded thee to keep the sabbath day.
Deu 5:16 Honour thy father and thy mother, as the LORD thy God hath commanded thee; that thy days may be prolonged, and that it may go well with thee, in the land which the LORD thy God giveth thee.
Deu 5:17 Thou shalt not kill.
Deu 5:18 Neither shalt thou commit adultery.
Deu 5:19 Neither shalt thou steal.
Deu 5:20 Neither shalt thou bear false witness against thy neighbour.
Deu 5:21 Neither shalt thou desire thy neighbour's wife, neither shalt thou covet thy neighbour's house, his field, or his manservant, or his maidservant, his ox, or his as.s, or any thing that is thy neighbour's.
Deu 5:22 These words the LORD spake unto all your assembly in the mount out of the midst of the fire, of the cloud, and of the thick darkness, with a great voice: and he added no more. And he wrote them in two tables of stone, and delivered them unto me.

Yeah, that makes "perfect" sense.

Crosstian · Nov 20, 2019

Redemptionsong said:
...There is a world of difference between living by GRACE and living by WORKS....

The Ten Commandments begin with grace and at its heart is grace:

Exo 20:2 I am the LORD thy God, which have brought thee out of the land of Egypt, out of the house of bondage.

What is that? Grace ...

Exo 20:6 And shewing mercy unto thousands of them that love me, and keep my commandments.

Joh 14:15 If ye love me, keep my commandments.

Mercy? What is that? Grace ...

Justified how?

Isa_45:25 In the LORD shall all the seed of Israel be justified, and shall glory.

Who is the Saviour in Exodus 20:2?

There are differing kinds of "works" in scripture. Works of faith, evil works, common work, holy work, etc.

Each of the Ten Commandments are God's promises in the New Covenant to us. Look at the words (Exodus 20:1-17) as they are in the face of Jesus Christ.

Crosstian · Nov 20, 2019

Redemptionsong said:
...So, I ask you Crosstian, do YOU love God and your neighbour? ...

Yes, which is why I tell you the truth:

1Ki_17:24 And the woman said to Elijah, Now by this I know that thou art a man of God, and that the word of the LORD in thy mouth is truth.

Psa_33:4 For the word of the LORD is right; and all his works are done in truth.

Joh_17:17 Sanctify them through thy truth: thy word is truth.

Col_1:5 For the hope which is laid up for you in heaven, whereof ye heard before in the word of the truth of the gospel;

1Th_2:13 For this cause also thank we God without ceasing, because, when ye received the word of God which ye heard of us, ye received it not as the word of men, but as it is in truth, the word of God, which effectually worketh also in you that believe.

Psa_119:142 Thy righteousness is an everlasting righteousness, and thy law is the truth.

Psa 119:151 Thou art near, O LORD; and all thy commandments are truth.

Psa 25:10 All the paths of the LORD are mercy and truth unto such as keep his covenant and his testimonies.

Deu_32:4 He is the Rock, his work is perfect: for all his ways are judgment: a God of truth and without iniquity, just and right is he.

Joh_14:6 Jesus saith unto him, I am the way, the truth, and the life: no man cometh unto the Father, but by me.

1Jn_5:6 This is he that came by water and blood, even Jesus Christ; not by water only, but by water and blood. And it is the Spirit that beareth witness, because the Spirit is truth.

Redemptionsong said:
Then, have you never looked upon a woman/man to lust after him/her? (Matthew 5:28) ...

Already called upon the name of the LORD for my sins,

Act_2:21 And it shall come to pass, that whosoever shall call on the name of the Lord shall be saved.

Rom_10:13 For whosoever shall call upon the name of the Lord shall be saved.

which are very very dark and wicked, and He has delivered me from it/them. He has forgiven me of those sins which are past:

Rom_3:25 Whom God hath set forth to be a propitiation through faith in his blood, to declare his righteousness for the remission of sins that are past, through the forbearance of God;

He has called me to live a life without sin.

1Jn_2:1 My little children, these things write I unto you, that ye sin not. And if any man sin, we have an advocate with the Father, Jesus Christ the righteous:

Yet forgiven sin, may be unforgiven in this time of probation and judgment ... Matthew 18, Leviticus 16, Revelation 14, etc.

3rdAngel · Nov 21, 2019

Crosstian said:
Yes, which is why I tell you the truth:

1Ki_17:24 And the woman said to Elijah, Now by this I know that thou art a man of God, and that the word of the LORD in thy mouth is truth.

Psa_33:4 For the word of the LORD is right; and all his works are done in truth.

Joh_17:17 Sanctify them through thy truth: thy word is truth.

Col_1:5 For the hope which is laid up for you in heaven, whereof ye heard before in the word of the truth of the gospel;

1Th_2:13 For this cause also thank we God without ceasing, because, when ye received the word of God which ye heard of us, ye received it not as the word of men, but as it is in truth, the word of God, which effectually worketh also in you that believe.

Psa_119:142 Thy righteousness is an everlasting righteousness, and thy law is the truth.

Psa 119:151 Thou art near, O LORD; and all thy commandments are truth.

Psa 25:10 All the paths of the LORD are mercy and truth unto such as keep his covenant and his testimonies.

Deu_32:4 He is the Rock, his work is perfect: for all his ways are judgment: a God of truth and without iniquity, just and right is he.

Joh_14:6 Jesus saith unto him, I am the way, the truth, and the life: no man cometh unto the Father, but by me.

1Jn_5:6 This is he that came by water and blood, even Jesus Christ; not by water only, but by water and blood. And it is the Spirit that beareth witness, because the Spirit is truth.

Already called upon the name of the LORD for my sins,

Act_2:21 And it shall come to pass, that whosoever shall call on the name of the Lord shall be saved.

Rom_10:13 For whosoever shall call upon the name of the Lord shall be saved.

which are very very dark and wicked, and He has delivered me from it/them. He has forgiven me of those sins which are past:

Rom_3:25 Whom God hath set forth to be a propitiation through faith in his blood, to declare his righteousness for the remission of sins that are past, through the forbearance of God;

He has called me to live a life without sin.

1Jn_2:1 My little children, these things write I unto you, that ye sin not. And if any man sin, we have an advocate with the Father, Jesus Christ the righteous:

Yet forgiven sin, may be unforgiven in this time of probation and judgment ... Matthew 18, Leviticus 16, Revelation 14, etc.

I am not sure many want to give up their traditions in order to follow JESUS (the Word)

Redemptionsong · Nov 21, 2019

3rdAngel said:
I am not sure many want to give up their traditions in order to follow JESUS (the Word)

3rdAngel, this criticism of yours is directed at those who follow law, not grace. The way of grace is the way of the Holy Spirit, but both you and Crosstian appear not to understand the difference. I can only conclude that this misapprehension exists because neither of you have received baptism in the Holy Spirit.

Let's remind ourselves of a few basic truths.

Jesus says in Matthew 15:24, 'I am not sent but unto the lost sheep of the house of Israel.'

Then, in Acts 13:44-52 we read about the preaching of Paul and Barnabas. Verse 46 says, 'Then Paul and Barnabas waxed bold, and said, It was necessary that the word of God should first have been spoken to you [Jews]: but seeing ye put it from you, and judge yourselves unworthy of everlasting life, lo, we turn to the Gentiles.'

I am assuming that you and Crosstian are Gentile believers. Both of you should, therefore, be aware that Paul said, 'I am the apostle of the Gentiles' (Romans 11:13). What Paul says to you both is of great significance. It is the message that Jesus gave to Paul to give to you! Furthermore, the message he brings is part of the 'mystery'.
Colossians 1:25-27.
'Whereof I am made a minister, according to the dispensation of God which is given to me for you, to fulfil the word of God;
Even the mystery which hath been hid from ages and from generations, but now is made manifest to his saints: to whom God would make known what is the riches of the glory of this mystery among the Gentiles; which is Christ in you, the hope of glory:'

If you do not have Christ in you, then I can understand why you go looking for him between 6pm Friday and 6pm Saturday. Hopefully, your schoolmaster, the law, will eventually lead you to a knowledge of Christ according to grace.

What is evident from your argument, saying that everyone who claims to be a follower of Christ should be resting and worshiping between Friday 6pm/Saturday 6pm, is that you cannot yourselves experience the rest and peace that comes when Christ is 'in you'.
Read Isaiah 63:10-14, and Hebrews 4:1-11. There is rest in Christ.

'For the Son of man is Lord even of the sabbath day.' (Matt.12:8)

If this message does not ring true for you, or your denomination as a whole, then I'm interested to know what evidence there is in your church of the power of God.
As Paul said, 'For I will not dare to speak of any of those things which Christ hath not wrought by me, to make the Gentiles obedient, by word and deed,
Through mighty signs and wonders, by the power of the Spirit of God; so that from Jerusalem, and round about unto Illyricum, I have fully preached the gospel of Christ.' (Romans 15:19,20.)

Crosstian · Nov 21, 2019

Redemptionsong said:
3rdAngel, this criticism of yours is directed at those who follow law, not grace. The way of grace is the way of the Holy Spirit, but both you and Crosstian appear not to understand the difference. I can only conclude that this misapprehension exists because neither of you have received baptism in the Holy Spirit.

Jesus was the most Holy Spirit filled/baptized person there ever was:

Luk 4:14 And Jesus returned in the power of the Spirit into Galilee: and there went out a fame of him through all the region round about.
Luk 4:15 And he taught in their synagogues, being glorified of all.
Luk 4:16 And he came to Nazareth, where he had been brought up: and, as his custom was, he went into the synagogue on the sabbath day, and stood up for to read.
Luk 4:17 And there was delivered unto him the book of the prophet Esaias. And when he had opened the book, he found the place where it was written,
Luk 4:18 The Spirit of the Lord is upon me, because he hath anointed me to preach the gospel to the poor; he hath sent me to heal the brokenhearted, to preach deliverance to the captives, and recovering of sight to the blind, to set at liberty them that are bruised,
Luk 4:19 To preach the acceptable year of the Lord.
Luk 4:20 And he closed the book, and he gave it again to the minister, and sat down. And the eyes of all them that were in the synagogue were fastened on him.
Luk 4:21 And he began to say unto them, This day is this scripture fulfilled in your ears.

Paul was a man, filled with the Holy Ghost, and a "chosen vessel" by God (even Jesus, personally):

Act_17:2 And Paul, as his manner was, went in unto them, and three sabbath days reasoned with them out of the scriptures,
Act 17:3 Opening and alleging, that Christ must needs have suffered, and risen again from the dead; and that this Jesus, whom I preach unto you, is Christ.

You seem to choose what you want to see, rather than what is there to see:

Joh_1:17 For the law was given by Moses, but grace and truth came by Jesus Christ.

Read John 1:17 carefully:

[1] Moses gave "the law" (the written words on scrolls, not in the Ark); Deuteronomy 31:26, etc

[2] Jesus was the one by which "grace" and "truth" came, which is God's Law, the Ten Commandments (in the Ark), spoken and written by JEHOVAH Elohiym:

Grace:

Exo 20:2 I am the LORD thy God, which have brought thee out of the land of Egypt, out of the house of bondage.

Exo 20:6 And shewing mercy unto thousands of them that love me, and keep my commandments.

Joh 14:15 If ye love me, keep my commandments.

Truth:

Psa_119:142 Thy righteousness is an everlasting righteousness, and thy law is the truth.

Psa 119:172 My tongue shall speak of thy word: for all thy commandments are righteousness.

Psa 119:151 Thou art near, O LORD; and all thy commandments are truth.

Light:

Act 26:23 That Christ should suffer, and that he should be the first that should rise from the dead, and should shew light unto the people, and to the Gentiles.

Pro_6:23 For the commandment is a lamp; and the law is light; and reproofs of instruction are the way of life:
Isa_8:20 To the law and to the testimony: if they speak not according to this word, it is because there is no light in them.
Isa_51:4 Hearken unto me, my people; and give ear unto me, O my nation: for a law shall proceed from me, and I will make my judgment to rest for a light of the people.

Act 26:25 But he said, I am not mad, most noble Festus; but speak forth the words of truth and soberness.

Act_14:15 And saying, Sirs, why do ye these things? We also are men of like passions with you, and preach unto you that ye should turn from these vanities unto the living God, which made heaven, and earth, and the sea, and all things that are therein:

Exo 20:11 For in six days the LORD made heaven and earth, the sea, and all that in them is, and rested the seventh day: wherefore the LORD blessed the sabbath day, and hallowed it.

Act 14:16 Who in times past suffered all nations to walk in their own ways.

Act 17:30 And the times of this ignorance God winked at; but now commandeth all men every where to repent:

Redemptionsong · Nov 22, 2019

Crosstian said:
Jesus was the most Holy Spirit filled/baptized person there ever was:

Luk 4:14 And Jesus returned in the power of the Spirit into Galilee: and there went out a fame of him through all the region round about.
Luk 4:15 And he taught in their synagogues, being glorified of all.
Luk 4:16 And he came to Nazareth, where he had been brought up: and, as his custom was, he went into the synagogue on the sabbath day, and stood up for to read.
Luk 4:17 And there was delivered unto him the book of the prophet Esaias. And when he had opened the book, he found the place where it was written,
Luk 4:18 The Spirit of the Lord is upon me, because he hath anointed me to preach the gospel to the poor; he hath sent me to heal the brokenhearted, to preach deliverance to the captives, and recovering of sight to the blind, to set at liberty them that are bruised,
Luk 4:19 To preach the acceptable year of the Lord.
Luk 4:20 And he closed the book, and he gave it again to the minister, and sat down. And the eyes of all them that were in the synagogue were fastened on him.
Luk 4:21 And he began to say unto them, This day is this scripture fulfilled in your ears.

Paul was a man, filled with the Holy Ghost, and a "chosen vessel" by God (even Jesus, personally):

Act_17:2 And Paul, as his manner was, went in unto them, and three sabbath days reasoned with them out of the scriptures,
Act 17:3 Opening and alleging, that Christ must needs have suffered, and risen again from the dead; and that this Jesus, whom I preach unto you, is Christ.

You seem to choose what you want to see, rather than what is there to see:

Joh_1:17 For the law was given by Moses, but grace and truth came by Jesus Christ.

Read John 1:17 carefully:

[1] Moses gave "the law" (the written words on scrolls, not in the Ark); Deuteronomy 31:26, etc

[2] Jesus was the one by which "grace" and "truth" came, which is God's Law, the Ten Commandments (in the Ark), spoken and written by JEHOVAH Elohiym:

Grace:

Exo 20:2 I am the LORD thy God, which have brought thee out of the land of Egypt, out of the house of bondage.

Exo 20:6 And shewing mercy unto thousands of them that love me, and keep my commandments.

Joh 14:15 If ye love me, keep my commandments.

Truth:

Psa_119:142 Thy righteousness is an everlasting righteousness, and thy law is the truth.

Psa 119:172 My tongue shall speak of thy word: for all thy commandments are righteousness.

Psa 119:151 Thou art near, O LORD; and all thy commandments are truth.
Light:

Act 26:23 That Christ should suffer, and that he should be the first that should rise from the dead, and should shew light unto the people, and to the Gentiles.

Pro_6:23 For the commandment is a lamp; and the law is light; and reproofs of instruction are the way of life:
Isa_8:20 To the law and to the testimony: if they speak not according to this word, it is because there is no light in them.
Isa_51:4 Hearken unto me, my people; and give ear unto me, O my nation: for a law shall proceed from me, and I will make my judgment to rest for a light of the people.
Act 26:25 But he said, I am not mad, most noble Festus; but speak forth the words of truth and soberness.

Act_14:15 And saying, Sirs, why do ye these things? We also are men of like passions with you, and preach unto you that ye should turn from these vanities unto the living God, which made heaven, and earth, and the sea, and all things that are therein:

Exo 20:11 For in six days the LORD made heaven and earth, the sea, and all that in them is, and rested the seventh day: wherefore the LORD blessed the sabbath day, and hallowed it.
Act 14:16 Who in times past suffered all nations to walk in their own ways.

Act 17:30 And the times of this ignorance God winked at; but now commandeth all men every where to repent:

The first thing to notice about your reply is that there is not one reference to the epistles of Paul! Yet, as I stated in my previous post, Paul was the apostle to the Gentiles.

All the references to the Sabbath that you draw on are from the book of Acts. In this book we have an historical account of events that took place after the resurrection of Jesus Christ. Paul tries to convince the Jews that Jesus is the Jewish Messiah, and he does this by visiting them on their sabbath day (he being accustomed to such traditions). This was the day on which Jews were obliged to gather together to rest, worship, and to study scripture. You cannot use these visits as evidence that Paul wanted the Gentiles to do likewise.

You have been trying to argue that the Jewish sabbath (Friday/Saturday) is not just a tradition of the Jews, but a 24 hour day of rest that has universal application.

Let's have a little look at Luke 4:16. Jesus returns to Nazareth from the temptations in the wilderness, and in verse 16 it states,'and, as his custom was, he went into the synagogue on the sabbath day, and stood up for to read.'

It states clearly that GOING TO THE SYNAGOGUE ON THE SABBATH DAY WAS A CUSTOM FOR JEWS. Jesus was a Jew.

Now, show me where it says in the epistles of Paul that Gentiles are called upon to fulfil the customs (which includes Friday/Saturday sabbath) of Jews!

3rdAngel · Nov 22, 2019

Crosstian said:
Jesus, in Matthew 19:16-22, listed certain commandments from the second Table of the Ten Commandments, since the issue with the rich young ruler, was his 'love of neighbour' (Leviticus 19:17-18; Matthew 19:19), notice in vss 18-19:

[6] Thou shalt do not murder

[7] Thou shalt not commit adultery

[8] Thou shalt not steal

[9] Thou shalt not bear false witness

[5] Honour thy father and thy mother

Jesus was indirectly, or discreetly, pointing this young man, to the 10th commandment. Look at the order, in which Jesus specifically gave, 6,7,8,9 & 5. The mind of the young man, knowing the Law of God, would have immediately noticed 10 was not spoken. Jesus addressed this in the following verse:

Mat 19:20 The young man saith unto him, All these things have I kept from my youth up: what lack I yet?
Mat 19:21 Jesus said unto him, If thou wilt be perfect, go and sell that thou hast, and give to the poor, and thou shalt have treasure in heaven: and come and follow me.
Mat 19:22 But when the young man heard that saying, he went away sorrowful: for he had great possessions.

The man's issue was covetousness, the Tenth Commandment. While claiming to have kept God's Law, he was in actuality breaking all of it (as James points out, and Paul), through covetousness (see Romans 7:7) and withholding from his near-brethren (neighbours).

You seem to point to the fact that Jesus did not list the Sabbath commandment. Jesus also didn't mention anything about the first 3 commandments (not just the 4th), as in not having other Gods, or idols, or taking the name of the Lord in vain either in these passages. Should they (1-3) be relegated to the same position that you have for sabbath-keeping (4)? The argument is self-refuting, for in so doing, a person would then not have to obey any laws of the LORD (JEHOVAH Elohiym), as they all came from Him, being a transcript of His perfect character (Exodus 33:12-12, 34:1-9, 20:5-7).

Jesus said,

Joh 14:15 If ye love me, keep my commandments.

Exo 20:6 And shewing mercy unto thousands of them that love me, and keep my commandments.

Jesus touched on the real issue.

Good post. I would say that when JESUS asked the right young give all that he had to the poor and come and follow him JESUS was teaching him that he was also breaking the first two commandments loving his money more than God and making it his idol.

God bless

3rdAngel · Nov 22, 2019

Redemptionsong said:
The first thing to notice about your reply is that there is not one reference to the epistles of Paul! Yet, as I stated in my previous post, Paul was the apostle to the Gentiles.

All the references to the Sabbath that you draw on are from the book of Acts. In this book we have an historical account of events that took place after the resurrection of Jesus Christ. Paul tries to convince the Jews that Jesus is the Jewish Messiah, and he does this by visiting them on their sabbath day (he being accustomed to such traditions). This was the day on which Jews were obliged to gather together to rest, worship, and to study scripture. You cannot use these visits as evidence that Paul wanted the Gentiles to do likewise.

Not really brother you did not read those passages did you. The reason for me saying this is because of what the scriptures say in Acts

The Gentiles asked that Pauls words be preached to them the next Sabbath...

ACTS 13:42-44
[42], And when the Jews were gone out of the synagogue, the Gentiles sought that these words might be preached to them the next sabbath.
[43], Now when the congregation was broken up, many of the Jews and religious proselytes followed Paul and Barnabas: who, speaking to them, persuaded them to continue in the grace of God.
[44], And the next sabbath day came almost the whole city together to hear the word of God.

Paul reasoned with both Jews and gentiles every Sabbath..

ACTS 18:4
[4], And he reasoned in the synagogue every sabbath, and persuaded the Jews and the Greeks.

On the Sabbath they went down the river to pray...

ACTS 16:13-14
[13], And on the sabbath we went out of the city by a river side, where prayer was wont to be made; and we sat down, and spoke to the women which resorted thither.
[14], And a certain woman named Lydia, a seller of purple, of the city of Thyatira, which worshipped God, heard us: whose heart the Lord opened, that she attended to the things which were spoken of Paul.
[15], And when she was baptized, and her household, she sought us, saying, If you have judged me to be faithful to the Lord, come into my house, and abide there. And she constrained us

...........

SUMMARY: According to God's Word (not mine) Paul kept the Sabbath inside and outside of the Synagogue and shared God's Word with both JEWS and Gentiles on the Sabbath. This is in opposition to your claims that Paul only went to the Synagogue on the Sabbath to teach the JEWS. The whole gentile town asked him to share Gods Word when? Not the next day but the next Sabbath *Acts 13:44.

Redemptionsong said:
Let's have a little look at Luke 4:16. Jesus returns to Nazareth from the temptations in the wilderness, and in verse 16 it states,'and, as his custom was, he went into the synagogue on the sabbath day, and stood up for to read.'

It states clearly that GOING TO THE SYNAGOGUE ON THE SABBATH DAY WAS A CUSTOM FOR JEWS. Jesus was a Jew.

Actually Luke 4:16 says no such thing, it simply says that JESUS custom was to go into the synagogue on the sabbath day, and stood up for to read.

LUKE 4:16 [16], And he came to Nazareth, where he had been brought up: and, as his custom (the custom of JESUS) was, he went into the synagogue on the sabbath day, and stood up for to read.

Redemptionsong said:
Now, show me where it says in the epistles of Paul that Gentiles are called upon to fulfil the customs (which includes Friday/Saturday sabbath) of Jews!

No problem...

According to God's Word in the new covenant God's ISRAEL are all those who believe and follow God's Word *Ephesians 2:11-13 ; Galatians 3:28-29 ; Romans 9:6-8 ; Romans 2:28-29 ; Colossians 3:11 ; Romans 10:11-13.

Gentile belevers are now grafted in to God's ISRAEL *Romans 11:13-27. If you are not as part of God's ISRAEL you have no part in the new covenant promise *Hebrews 8:10-12.

As it is written For he is not a Jew, which is one outwardly; neither is that circumcision, which is outward in the flesh: But he is a Jew, which is one inwardly; and circumcision is that of the heart, in the spirit, and not in the letter; whose praise is not of men, but of God

and again..

Not as though the word of God has taken none effect. For they are not all Israel, which are of Israel: Neither, because they are the seed of Abraham, are they all children: but, In Isaac shall your seed be called. That is, They which are the children of the flesh, these are not the children of God: but the children of the promise are counted for the seed. So the meaning here is that there is no JEW or Gentile believers all are one in Christ and God's ISRAEL in the new covenant are all those who BELIEVE and FOLLOW God's Word.

Wait for it...

HEBREWS 4:9 SO THEN IT REMAINS FOR THE PEOPLE OF GOD TO KEEP THE SABBATH

Hope this helps.

Redemptionsong · Nov 22, 2019

3rdAngel said:
Not really brother you did not read those passages did you. The reason for me saying this is because of what the scriptures say in Acts

The Gentiles asked that Pauls words be preached to them the next Sabbath...

ACTS 13:42-44
[42], And when the Jews were gone out of the synagogue, the Gentiles sought that these words might be preached to them the next sabbath.
[43], Now when the congregation was broken up, many of the Jews and religious proselytes followed Paul and Barnabas: who, speaking to them, persuaded them to continue in the grace of God.
[44], And the next sabbath day came almost the whole city together to hear the word of God.

Paul reasoned with both Jews and gentiles every Sabbath..

ACTS 18:4
[4], And he reasoned in the synagogue every sabbath, and persuaded the Jews and the Greeks.

On the Sabbath they went down the river to pray...

ACTS 16:13-14
[13], And on the sabbath we went out of the city by a river side, where prayer was wont to be made; and we sat down, and spoke to the women which resorted thither.
[14], And a certain woman named Lydia, a seller of purple, of the city of Thyatira, which worshipped God, heard us: whose heart the Lord opened, that she attended to the things which were spoken of Paul.
[15], And when she was baptized, and her household, she sought us, saying, If you have judged me to be faithful to the Lord, come into my house, and abide there. And she constrained us

...........

SUMMARY: According to God's Word (not mine) Paul kept the Sabbath inside and outside of the Synagogue and shared God's Word with both JEWS and Gentiles on the Sabbath. This is in opposition to your claims that Paul only went to the Synagogue on the Sabbath to teach the JEWS. The whole gentile town asked him to share Gods Word when? Not the next day but the next Sabbath *Acts 13:44.

Actually Luke 4:16 says no such thing, it simply says that JESUS custom was to go into the synagogue on the sabbath day, and stood up for to read.

LUKE 4:16 [16], And he came to Nazareth, where he had been brought up: and, as his custom (the custom of JESUS) was, he went into the synagogue on the sabbath day, and stood up for to read.

No problem...

According to God's Word in the new covenant God's ISRAEL are all those who believe and follow God's Word *Ephesians 2:11-13 ; Galatians 3:28-29 ; Romans 9:6-8 ; Romans 2:28-29 ; Colossians 3:11 ; Romans 10:11-13.

Gentile belevers are now grafted in to God's ISRAEL *Romans 11:13-27. If you are not as part of God's ISRAEL you have no part in the new covenant promise *Hebrews 8:10-12.

As it is written For he is not a Jew, which is one outwardly; neither is that circumcision, which is outward in the flesh: But he is a Jew, which is one inwardly; and circumcision is that of the heart, in the spirit, and not in the letter; whose praise is not of men, but of God

and again..

Not as though the word of God has taken none effect. For they are not all Israel, which are of Israel: Neither, because they are the seed of Abraham, are they all children: but, In Isaac shall your seed be called. That is, They which are the children of the flesh, these are not the children of God: but the children of the promise are counted for the seed. So the meaning here is that there is no JEW or Gentile believers all are one in Christ and God's ISRAEL in the new covenant are all those who BELIEVE and FOLLOW God's Word.

Wait for it...

HEBREWS 4:9 SO THEN IT REMAINS FOR THE PEOPLE OF GOD TO KEEP THE SABBATH

Hope this helps.

There is no faulting God's word. The scriptures clearly state that the Gentiles 'besought that these words might be preached to them the next sabbath (Gr. in the week between, or, in the sabbath between.) [Acts 13:42]

Does this mean that the Gentiles were observing, or were required to observe, the sabbath? Of course not! These unsaved Gentiles were not following the Law of Moses! In verse 44 when 'almost the whole city' came together to hear the word of God they were not inside the synagogue, but outside in the city. The sabbath happened to be a convenient day on which to preach.

Shortly after 'opening the door of faith unto the Gentiles' recorded in Acts 13/14, we have a dispute arise about circumcision and being saved. Paul and Barnabas go to Jerusalem to discuss the issue with the apostles and elders, and it says in Acts 15:5, 'But there rose up certain of the sect of the pharisees which believed, saying, That it was needful to circumcise them, and to command them to keep the law of Moses.' Peter's reply is given thereafter, and we read these words in verse 10, 'Now therefore why tempt ye God, to put a yoke upon the neck of the disciples, which neither our fathers nor we were able to bear?'

By obligating people to observe a Friday 6pm to Saturday 6pm rest, you are placing a yoke upon the neck of the disciples. You are speaking like 'the sect of the pharisees that believed'. Peter and Paul realised that this was not necessary.

[Acts 15:24] In talking about the Gentiles in Antioch, Syria and Cilicia, it says, 'Forasmuch as we have heard, that certain which went out from us have troubled you with words, subverting your souls, saying, Ye must be circumcised, and keep the law: to whom we gave no such commandment:' Then in verses 28, 29, we are given a list of things that Gentiles should be observing. It doesn't mention the Jewish sabbath.

When this message was received by the Gentiles in Antioch 'they rejoiced'!

Your punch-line from Hebrews 4:9 is not a punch-line at all. In the next verse it states, 'For he that is entered into his [God's] rest, he also hath ceased from his own works, as God did from his.' As it says in verse 3, 'For we which have believed do enter into rest'. This is not talking about a weekly sabbath! It it were, then our rest would not be a ceasing of our own works for six out of seven days of the week! God's rest for the believer is 24/7.

3rdAngel · Nov 22, 2019

Redemptionsong said:
There is no faulting God's word. The scriptures clearly state that the Gentiles 'besought that these words might be preached to them the next sabbath (Gr. in the week between, or, in the sabbath between.) [Acts 13:42]

Does this mean that the Gentiles were observing, or were required to observe, the sabbath? Of course not! These unsaved Gentiles were not following the Law of Moses! In verse 44 when 'almost the whole city' came together to hear the word of God they were not inside the synagogue, but outside in the city. The sabbath happened to be a convenient day on which to preach.

Shortly after 'opening the door of faith unto the Gentiles' recorded in Acts 13/14, we have a dispute arise about circumcision and being saved. Paul and Barnabas go to Jerusalem to discuss the issue with the apostles and elders, and it says in Acts 15:5, 'But there rose up certain of the sect of the pharisees which believed, saying, That it was needful to circumcise them, and to command them to keep the law of Moses.' Peter's reply is given thereafter, and we read these words in verse 10, 'Now therefore why tempt ye God, to put a yoke upon the neck of the disciples, which neither our fathers nor we were able to bear?'

By obligating people to observe a Friday 6pm to Saturday 6pm rest, you are placing a yoke upon the neck of the disciples. You are speaking like 'the sect of the pharisees that believed'. Peter and Paul realised that this was not necessary.

[Acts 15:24] In talking about the Gentiles in Antioch, Syria and Cilicia, it says, 'Forasmuch as we have heard, that certain which went out from us have troubled you with words, subverting your souls, saying, Ye must be circumcised, and keep the law: to whom we gave no such commandment:' Then in verses 28, 29, we are given a list of things that Gentiles should be observing. It doesn't mention the Jewish sabbath.

When this message was received by the Gentiles in Antioch 'they rejoiced'!

Your punch-line from Hebrews 4:9 is not a punch-line at all. In the next verse it states, 'For he that is entered into his [God's] rest, he also hath ceased from his own works, as God did from his.' As it says in verse 3, 'For we which have believed do enter into rest'. This is not talking about a weekly sabbath! It it were, then our rest would not be a ceasing of our own works for six out of seven days of the week! God's rest for the believer is 24/7.

The scriptures were never provided as proof texts from Acts to show gentiles are to keep the Sabbath. If you read the post you are quoting from they are provided to show that your claims that Paul only kept the Sabbath to reach the JEWS was a false statement. You are confused also in quoting ACTS 15 which was never about gentile believers needing to follow God's 10 commandments it was always about if "CIRCUMCISION" from the Mosaic book of the law was a requirement for salvation. Read the context you have left out...

ACTS 15:1-2
[1], And certain men which came down from Judaea taught the brothers, and said, EXCEPT YOU BE CIRCUMCISED AFTER THE MANNER OF MOSES YOU CANNOT BE SAVED .
[2], When therefore Paul and Barnabas had no small dissension and disputation with them, they determined that Paul and Barnabas, and certain other of them, should go up to Jerusalem to the apostles and elders ABOUT THIS QUESTION.

Q. What question were they going to Jerusalem to determine?

A. IS CIRCUMCISION A REQUIREMENT FOR SALVATION?

Your interpretation of ACTS 15 as being a reference to say gentile believers do not have to keep God's 10 commandments makes Paul contradicts what he says afterwards...

1 CORINTHIANS 7:19 [19], Circumcision is nothing, and uncircumcision is nothing, BUT THE KEEPING OF THE COMMANDMENTS OF GOD.

ROMANS 3:31 [31], Do we then make void the law through faith? God forbid: yes, WE ESTABLISH THE LAW.

ROMANS 8:1-4
[1], There is therefore now no condemnation to them which are in Christ Jesus, who walk not after the flesh, but after the Spirit.
[2], For the law of the Spirit of life in Christ Jesus has made me free from the law of sin and death.
[3], For what the law could not do, in that it was weak through the flesh, God sending his own Son in the likeness of sinful flesh, and for sin, condemned sin in the flesh:
[4], That the righteousness of the law might be fulfilled in us, who walk not after the flesh, but after the Spirit.

etc, etc...

..........

Hebrews 4:10-11 support the context which is Hebrews 4:1-9 which is entering into God's "seventh day" Sabbath rest by believing and following God's Word (faith).

Hope this helps..

Redemptionsong · Nov 23, 2019

3rdAngel said:
The scriptures were never provided as proof texts from Acts to show gentiles are to keep the Sabbath. If you read the post you are quoting from they are provided to show that your claims that Paul only kept the Sabbath to reach the JEWS was a false statement. You are confused also in quoting ACTS 15 which was never about gentile believers needing to follow God's 10 commandments it was always about if "CIRCUMCISION" from the Mosaic book of the law was a requirement for salvation. Read the context you have left out...

ACTS 15:1-2
[1], And certain men which came down from Judaea taught the brothers, and said, EXCEPT YOU BE CIRCUMCISED AFTER THE MANNER OF MOSES YOU CANNOT BE SAVED .
[2], When therefore Paul and Barnabas had no small dissension and disputation with them, they determined that Paul and Barnabas, and certain other of them, should go up to Jerusalem to the apostles and elders ABOUT THIS QUESTION.

Q. What question were they going to Jerusalem to determine?

A. IS CIRCUMCISION A REQUIREMENT FOR SALVATION?

Your interpretation of ACTS 15 as being a reference to say gentile believers do not have to keep God's 10 commandments makes Paul contradicts what he says afterwards...

1 CORINTHIANS 7:19 [19], Circumcision is nothing, and uncircumcision is nothing, BUT THE KEEPING OF THE COMMANDMENTS OF GOD.

ROMANS 3:31 [31], Do we then make void the law through faith? God forbid: yes, WE ESTABLISH THE LAW.

ROMANS 8:1-4
[1], There is therefore now no condemnation to them which are in Christ Jesus, who walk not after the flesh, but after the Spirit.
[2], For the law of the Spirit of life in Christ Jesus has made me free from the law of sin and death.
[3], For what the law could not do, in that it was weak through the flesh, God sending his own Son in the likeness of sinful flesh, and for sin, condemned sin in the flesh:
[4], That the righteousness of the law might be fulfilled in us, who walk not after the flesh, but after the Spirit.

etc, etc...

..........

Hebrews 4:10-11 support the context which is Hebrews 4:1-9 which is entering into God's "seventh day" Sabbath rest by believing and following God's Word (faith).

Hope this helps..

The key question, then, is whether or not you, and I, walk after the Spirit.

To walk after the Spirit is GRACE, to walk after the law is WORKS.

This is the question that Paul asks in Galatians 3:2, 'This only would I learn from you, Received ye the Spirit by the works of the law, or by the hearing of faith?'
The question is rhetorical because he then says, 'Are ye so foolish? having begun in the Spirit, are ye now made perfect by the flesh?

'THE LAW IS NOT OF FAITH' (Galatians 3:12)

Is the keeping of the Jewish sabbath an act of faith, or a doing of the law?

3rdAngel · Nov 23, 2019

Redemptionsong said:
The key question, then, is whether or not you, and I, walk after the Spirit.

To walk after the Spirit is GRACE, to walk after the law is WORKS.

This is the question that Paul asks in Galatians 3:2, 'This only would I learn from you, Received ye the Spirit by the works of the law, or by the hearing of faith?'
The question is rhetorical because he then says, 'Are ye so foolish? having begun in the Spirit, are ye now made perfect by the flesh?

'THE LAW IS NOT OF FAITH' (Galatians 3:12)

Is the keeping of the Jewish sabbath an act of faith, or a doing of the law?

No one walks in the Spirit if they are breaking anyone of God's 10 Commandments as God only gives his Spirit to those who believe and follow his Word *Acts 5:29-32; Galatians 5:16; Romans 8:1-4; John 10:26-27. Sin (breaking anyone of God's 10 commandments) *1 John 3:4; James 2:10-11, is the difference between the children of God and the children of the deveil *1 John 3:6-10. Wherefore by their fruits you shall know them *Matthew 7:16-26. How do we know that we know him and have His Spirit? And hereby we do know that we know him, if we keep his commandments. He that said, I know him, and keeps not his commandments, is a liar, and the truth is not in him *1 John 2:3-4. Do you love JESUS brother Redemptionsong? - John 14:15?

We are only saved by GRACE through faith and not of ourselves it is a gift of God *EPHESIANS 2:8. OBEDIENCE to God's LAW is not how we are saved it is the FRUIT of God's work in us as we BELIEVE and FOLLOW his WORD by faith that works by LOVE. Salvation is from sin (breaking any one of God’s 10 Commandments) not to continue in sin *ROMANS 6:1-23; JOHN 8:31-36. Those who continue in known unrepentant sin do not know God and need to be Born again into the NEW COVENANT promise to love *HEBREWS 8:10-12; ROMANS 13:8-10. This is God's work in us and a part of the NEW COVENANT promise *HEBREWS 8:10-12; PHILIPPIANS 2:13. If our faith has no fruit it is dead *JAMES 2:18-20; 26 and our tree will be cast down and thrown into the fire *MATTHEW 3:10; 7:19-20; 13:49-50.

'THE LAW IS NOT OF FAITH' *GALATIANS 3:12, but the law leads us to Christ that we might be forgiven by faith *GALATIANS 3:22-25 and faith without works is dead *JAMES 2:18-20; 26

May you receive God's Word and be blessed.

Redemptionsong · Nov 23, 2019

3rdAngel said:
No one walks in the Spirit if they are breaking anyone of God's 10 Commandments *Acts 5:29-32; Galatians 5:16; Romans 8:1-4. Sin (breaking anyone of God's 10 commandments) *1 John 3:4; James 2:10-11, is the difference between the children of God and the children of the deveil *1 John 3:6-10. Wherefore by their fruits you shall know them *Matthew 7:16-26. How do we know that we know him and have His Spirit? And hereby we do know that we know him, if we keep his commandments. He that said, I know him, and keeps not his commandments, is a liar, and the truth is not in him *1 John 2:3-4. Do you love JESUS brother Redemptionsong? - John 14:15?

We are only saved by GRACE through faith and not of ourselves it is a gift of God *EPHESIANS 2:8. OBEDIENCE to God's LAW is not how we are saved it is the FRUIT of God's work in us as we BELIEVE and FOLLOW his WORD by faith that works by LOVE. Salvation is from sin (breaking any one of God’s 10 Commandments) not to continue in sin *ROMANS 6:1-23; JOHN 8:31-36. Those who continue in known unrepentant sin do not know God and need to be Born again into the NEW COVENANT promise to love *HEBREWS 8:10-12; ROMANS 13:8-10. This is God's work in us and a part of the NEW COVENANT promise *HEBREWS 8:10-12; PHILIPPIANS 2:13. If our faith has no fruit it is dead *JAMES 2:18-20; 26 and our tree will be cast down and thrown into the fire *MATTHEW 3:10; 7:19-20; 13:49-50.

'THE LAW IS NOT OF FAITH' *GALATIANS 3:12, but the law leads us to Christ that we might be forgiven by faith *GALATIANS 3:22-25 and faith without works is dead *JAMES 2:18-20; 26

May you receive God's Word and be blessed.

Yes, it's true, faith without works is dead. But the works that follow faith in Christ are works of the Holy Spirit, not OUR works!

You keep quoting John 14:15, but you fail to quote 14:16, or the wider context. Let's take a look at the two verses together.
'If ye love me, keep my commandments.[As stated in Matthew 19:16-22]
And I will pray the Father, and he shall give you another Comforter, that he may abide with you forever.'

The coming of the Comforter, the Holy Spirit, is the beginning of grace.

So if you insist on following the law of Moses, why don't you fulfil the whole of the sabbath commandment? It states quite explicitly, Exodus 31:15, 'whosoever doeth any work in the sabbath day, he shall surely be put to death.'

3rdAngel · Nov 23, 2019

Redemptionsong said:
Yes, it's true, faith without works is dead. But the works that follow faith in Christ are works of the Holy Spirit, not OUR works!

No one said to you brother that obedience to God's Word are our works. As the post and the scriptures shared with you say, works are the fruit of faith in God's Word and walking in God's Spirit *Acts 5:29-32; Galatians 5:16; Romans 8:1-4; John 10:26-27. If no one has said to you they are our works than why do you pretend that they have and if no one is claiming what you say they have said you have no argument and nothing to argue about. If you have no argument your claims a simply a distraction not to believe and follow God's Word in order to follow man made traditions and teachings that break the commandments of God that JESUS warns us about in MATTHEW 15:1-9.

Redemptionsong said:
You keep quoting John 14:15, but you fail to quote 14:16, or the wider context. Let's take a look at the two verses together. 'If ye love me, keep my commandments.[As stated in Matthew 19:16-22] And I will pray the Father, and he shall give you another Comforter, that he may abide with you forever.'

JOHN 14:15-16 only support what is being shared with you in the previous post. No one walks in the Spirit if they are breaking anyone of God's 10 Commandments as God only gives his Spirit to those who believe and follow his Word *Acts 5:29-32; Galatians 5:16; Romans 8:1-4; John 10:26-27.

Sin (breaking anyone of God's 10 commandments) *1 John 3:4; James 2:10-11, is the difference between the children of God and the children of the deveil *1 John 3:6-10. Wherefore by their fruits you shall know them *Matthew 7:16-26.

How do we know that we know him and have His Spirit? And hereby we do know that we know him, if we keep his commandments. He that said, I know him, and keeps not his commandments, is a liar, and the truth is not in him *1 John 2:3-4.

Do you love JESUS brother Redemptionsong? - John 14:15? If you do why do you not keep all of God's commandments? There is no use in pretending I am saying things I have never said or believe brother. If I only share Gods Word with you than why do you not believe it? Only God's Word is true and we should believe and follow it over the teachings and traditions of men that break the commandments of God *Matther 15:3-9.

May you receive God's Word and be blessed. Ignoring God's Word does not make it disappear.

IndigoChild5559 · Nov 23, 2019

3rdAngel said:
What do you think is the meaning of COLOSSIANS 2:16-17?

Many people pull up COLOSSIANS 2:16 in an attempt to cherry pick scripture without considering

1. THE CHAPTER CONTEXT

2. THE WITHIN SCRIPTURE CONTEXT

3. THE GREEK WORD MEANINGS OF THE WITHIN SCRIPTURE CONTEXT

4. CONTEXT TO THE REST OF THE SCRIPTURE WITHIN ALL SCRIPTURE

In order to argue Sunday (first day of the week) is the new Christian Sabbath instead of God's seventh day sabbath which is God's 4th commandment of the 10 commandments.

In the days of JESUS and the Disciples their bible was the OLD TESTAMENT scriptures so everything that we have in the NEW TESTAMENT scriptures comes from the OLD TESTAMENT scriptures.

The point being made here is that much of the NEW TESTAMENT has direct links and is directly quoting OLD TESTAMENT scripture which with a prayerful study of God's Word can help us understand the meanings and context of what is being discussed in the NEW TESTAMENT which in many cases are a fulfillment of the OLD SHADOW laws from the MOSAIC BOOK of the OLD COVENANT *EXODUS 24:7.

I would like to propose an evaluation of COLOSSIANS 2:16-17 using all of the above applied to COLOSSIANS 2 for chapter context and in particular COLOSSIANS 2:16 for within scripture context linking the scritures from the OLD TESTAMENT that are being discussed here.

The reason being, many people try to simply use a single NEW TESTAMENT scripture (COLOSSIANS 2:16) which they pull out of the CHAPTER and the within SCRIPTURE CONTEXT and separate it from all the scriptures provided in God’s Word from which it is quoting to try and make it say things that it is not saying.

This is a discussion that I hope will encourage you and challenge you to dig deep into God's WORD, praying and asking JESUS to be your guide and teacher which he promises to do to all those who ask him and seek him to answer the question...

IS COLOSSIANS 2 SAYING THAT WE ARE NO LONGER TO KEEP GOD'S SABBATH?

I believe you all are my brothers and sisters and that God's people are in all churches living up to all the light that God has revealed to them. The hour is coming and now is however that God is calling his people wherever they may be OUT FROM FOLLOWING THE TEACHINGS AND TRADITIONS OF MEN back to the pure words of GOD alone. God is a Spirit and those who worship him must worship him in Spirit and in truth *JOHN 10:17; JOHN 4:23-24

This thread is to discuss what the context of Colossians 2:16-17 is discussing to determine the scripture applications. What are your thoughts?

May you receive God's WORD and be blessed.

Hi 3rd Angel. Nice to meet you.

Let me say right off the bat that I admire how dedicated you are to God and your devotion to obeying him, even when it's not convenient or goes against the status quo.

I would like to question some of your assumptions about the 10 commandment, specifically, who they were given to. Who was it stood at the foot of Mt Sinai and heard God when he spoke them? Representatives from the nations of the world? Or all of Israel? My Torah says that it was Israel. Not the world. The 10 are simply a subgroup of the 613 that were given to Israel, and not to the nations.

Sure there is overlap. The 613 include all the laws that are universal. So the question then becomes, are the 10 universal laws? Let's look at that.

Certainly many of them are. Don't murder, don't steal, don't commit adultery, honor your father and mother... wow, there are sure a lot of universals in there.

But your post is focusing on keeping the Shabbat. Is THAT a universal?

Let's look at the reason for keeping the Shabbat. Deuteronomy 5:15 Remember that you were a slave in the land of Egypt, and the Lord your God brought you out from there with a mighty hand and an outstretched arm; therefore the Lord your God commanded you to keep the sabbath day.

IOW the REASON to keep the Sabbath is to remember being delivered by God from slavery in Egypt. As a Jew, I can remember that, since my ancestors were slaves in Egypt. But not true for you, since your ancestors were not (I'm assuming so, since you aren't claiming to be a Jew).

Keeping the Shabbat is NOT a universal law. It is meant ONLY for Israel, not the world.

Now if you, simply out of love for Hashem, wish to keep the Shabbat... More power to you. There is no harm done. I'm only saying that it is not an obligation for you.

COL 2:16 And The Sabbath - Are You Being Told The Truth?

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Loving God and my neighbor as myself.