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Mars Destroyer of Special Relativity

questfortruth

Well-Known Member
Suppose an ultrafast spaceship flies in a straight line. It flies, without stopping. It passes the Earth at the moment of 0 seconds (of spaceship clock in the astronaut's cabin), and then at the moment of 0.0002 seconds spaceship meets Mars, and then, having passed it, it reaches Pluto at the moment 0.003 seconds and flies on without stopping. Thus, the moment of flight over Mars is very small: 0.000000001 seconds. The Theory of Relativity claims that when the speed of the ship would be up to the speed of light, all three of these numbers become indistinguishable from zero. But then, from the point of view of the astronaut, a meeting with Mars occurs almost instantly, thereby Mars flies passing the ship with almost instantaneous speed. And this contradicts the law of nature that the speed of Mars should be less than the speed of light (no matter what position Mars is considered from).

After all, what is the relativity of motion? From a bus passenger's point of view, the bus does not move but the tree moves, which the bus passes. And if a tree moves on a passenger position instantly, according to the passenger's wristwatch, then the speed of motion of the tree exceeds the speed of light.

Correction of this paradox should include such a concept as Virtual Terms - mathematical insertions into the equations and laws of nature, which are made not from fundamental premises, but “by hand” in order to fit the theory under observation. An example of such inserts is Dark Matter and Dark Energy, therefore, they cannot be directly detected, but to measure their effect on nature is possible. As a prime example, the Dark Matter anomaly has acted on the space-time grid so much that it created an additional force of attraction of stars to the center of their galaxy.

By the way, the proton radius measured by many experimenters was different in different years. This riddle did not find yet a solution: Jean-Philippe Karr, Dominique Marchand, "Progress on the proton-radius puzzle", Nature 2019. I solve this with a virtual insert V into the radius value: r = R + V.

The explanation for specialists:

If the speed of Mars in my problem does not exceed the speed of light, then this speed is equal to v. The astronaut does not move in relation to the spaceship, so the proper length of the ship L does not depend on the speed of the ship. Then, the duration of the encounter with Mars is simply L / v (according to astronaut's clock). In the limit of high speeds, it does not become zero but tends to L / c. However, the time on the astronaut's clock of the entire journey from Earth to Pluto becomes zero, because the time of a high-speed object stops. The contradiction is then L/c=0, whereas L is not zero and not small.

Published in viXra: 1911.0239
 

Valjean

Veteran Member
Premium Member
How would the spaceship reach the speed of light? Where would the energy to accelerate a mass approaching infinity come from?
 

exchemist

Veteran Member
Suppose an ultrafast spaceship flies in a straight line. It flies, without stopping. It passes the Earth at the moment of 0 seconds (of spaceship clock in the astronaut's cabin), and then at the moment of 0.0002 seconds spaceship meets Mars, and then, having passed it, it reaches Pluto at the moment 0.003 seconds and flies on without stopping. Thus, the moment of flight over Mars is very small: 0.000000001 seconds. The Theory of Relativity claims that when the speed of the ship would be up to the speed of light, all three of these numbers become indistinguishable from zero. But then, from the point of view of the astronaut, a meeting with Mars occurs almost instantly, thereby Mars flies passing the ship with almost instantaneous speed. And this contradicts the law of nature that the speed of Mars should be less than the speed of light (no matter what position Mars is considered from).

After all, what is the relativity of motion? From a bus passenger's point of view, the bus does not move but the tree moves, which the bus passes. And if a tree moves on a passenger position instantly, according to the passenger's wristwatch, then the speed of motion of the tree exceeds the speed of light.

Correction of this paradox should include such a concept as Virtual Terms - mathematical insertions into the equations and laws of nature, which are made not from fundamental premises, but “by hand” in order to fit the theory under observation. An example of such inserts is Dark Matter and Dark Energy, therefore, they cannot be directly detected, but to measure their effect on nature is possible. As a prime example, the Dark Matter anomaly has acted on the space-time grid so much that it created an additional force of attraction of stars to the center of their galaxy.

By the way, the proton radius measured by many experimenters was different in different years. This riddle did not find yet a solution: Jean-Philippe Karr, Dominique Marchand, "Progress on the proton-radius puzzle", Nature 2019. I solve this with a virtual insert V into the radius value: r = R + V.

The explanation for specialists:

If the speed of Mars in my problem does not exceed the speed of light, then this speed is equal to v. The astronaut does not move in relation to the spaceship, so the proper length of the ship L does not depend on the speed of the ship. Then, the duration of the encounter with Mars is simply L / v (according to astronaut's clock). In the limit of high speeds, it does not become zero but tends to L / c. However, the time on the astronaut's clock of the entire journey from Earth to Pluto becomes zero, because the time of a high-speed object stops. The contradiction is then L/c=0, whereas L is not zero and not small.

Published in viXra: 1911.0239
Readers, if it is published in vixra, it is almost certain to be rubbish. Vixra is a notorious dustbin of junk science that cannot find a reputable publisher.

(The paragraph about proton radius seems completely unconnected to the rest of it. In fact the "puzzle" seems to have been solved in the last few weeks: Proton radius puzzle - Wikipedia)
 

ChristineM

"Be strong", I whispered to my coffee.
Premium Member
Suppose an ultrafast spaceship flies in a straight line. It flies, without stopping. It passes the Earth at the moment of 0 seconds (of spaceship clock in the astronaut's cabin), and then at the moment of 0.0002 seconds spaceship meets Mars, and then, having passed it, it reaches Pluto at the moment 0.003 seconds and flies on without stopping. Thus, the moment of flight over Mars is very small: 0.000000001 seconds. The Theory of Relativity claims that when the speed of the ship would be up to the speed of light, all three of these numbers become indistinguishable from zero. But then, from the point of view of the astronaut, a meeting with Mars occurs almost instantly, thereby Mars flies passing the ship with almost instantaneous speed. And this contradicts the law of nature that the speed of Mars should be less than the speed of light (no matter what position Mars is considered from).

After all, what is the relativity of motion? From a bus passenger's point of view, the bus does not move but the tree moves, which the bus passes. And if a tree moves on a passenger position instantly, according to the passenger's wristwatch, then the speed of motion of the tree exceeds the speed of light.

Correction of this paradox should include such a concept as Virtual Terms - mathematical insertions into the equations and laws of nature, which are made not from fundamental premises, but “by hand” in order to fit the theory under observation. An example of such inserts is Dark Matter and Dark Energy, therefore, they cannot be directly detected, but to measure their effect on nature is possible. As a prime example, the Dark Matter anomaly has acted on the space-time grid so much that it created an additional force of attraction of stars to the center of their galaxy.

By the way, the proton radius measured by many experimenters was different in different years. This riddle did not find yet a solution: Jean-Philippe Karr, Dominique Marchand, "Progress on the proton-radius puzzle", Nature 2019. I solve this with a virtual insert V into the radius value: r = R + V.

The explanation for specialists:

If the speed of Mars in my problem does not exceed the speed of light, then this speed is equal to v. The astronaut does not move in relation to the spaceship, so the proper length of the ship L does not depend on the speed of the ship. Then, the duration of the encounter with Mars is simply L / v (according to astronaut's clock). In the limit of high speeds, it does not become zero but tends to L / c. However, the time on the astronaut's clock of the entire journey from Earth to Pluto becomes zero, because the time of a high-speed object stops. The contradiction is then L/c=0, whereas L is not zero and not small.

Published in viXra: 1911.0239


That is one quick ship. It takes light a minimum (depending on orbital distance) of just over 3 minutes to reach mars from earth. So you are talking of a ship that travels almost a billion times faster than light. Wow, what's it energy source because i want one of those?

Actually mars is moving relitively faster than the speed of light from some perspectives.

Assume mars (our solar system and the local galactic cluster is moving along with the expansion of the universe at 0.6C.

Far far away on the far side of the universe is another planet moving along with universal expansion at O.6C in precisely the opposite direction.

Observers on each planet will never see the other planet because they are receding from each other at 1.2 times the speed of light.

Ain't relitively a hootl
 

tayla

My dog's name is Tayla
And this contradicts the law of nature that the speed of Mars should be less than the speed of light (no matter what position Mars is considered from).
Amazing! Someone should alert the physicists of this scenario so they can redo their theory. :)
 

Valjean

Veteran Member
Premium Member
...and what if they forgot to leave the light on on Mars....
Simple. Without the light on you wouldn't be able to see it, and without an observer Mars would "uncollapse" back into the underlying sea of potentiality.
:D
 

questfortruth

Well-Known Member
...and what if they forgot to leave the light on on Mars....


That is one quick ship. It takes light a minimum (depending on orbital distance) of just over 3 minutes to reach mars from earth. So you are talking of a ship that travels almost a billion times faster than light. Wow, what's it energy source because i want one of those?
The space-ship travels under the speed of light v<c, but in Einstein's theory the clock inside the ship almost does not tick, does not go. So, being the astronaut one looks at the clock, which is inside the ship, and records, that at 0 second - Earth, at 0.0002 sec - Mars, 0.003 sec - Pluto.
 

ChristineM

"Be strong", I whispered to my coffee.
Premium Member


The space-ship travels under the speed of light v<c, but in Einstein's theory the clock inside the ship almost does not tick, does not go. So, being the astronaut one looks at the clock, which is inside the ship, and records, that at 0 second - Earth, at 0.0002 sec - Mars, 0.003 sec - Pluto.

Bull, it takes lights over 3 minutes to pass from earth to mats. You had your magic ship traveling that distance on 0.0002 seconds. That is 910000 times faster than light.

And you have it wrong, the clock in the ship would appear to tick at normal speed to those on the ship watching the clock.
 

exchemist

Veteran Member
Simple. Without the light on you wouldn't be able to see it, and without an observer Mars would "uncollapse" back into the underlying sea of potentiality.
:D
"Sea of potentiality". Love it. I should introduce you to my crank friend on sciforums who speaks like that. :D
 

exchemist

Veteran Member
Bull, it takes lights over 3 minutes to pass from earth to mats. You had your magic ship traveling that distance on 0.0002 seconds. That is 910000 times faster than light.

And you have it wrong, the clock in the ship would appear to tick at normal speed to those on the ship watching the clock.
According to my limited understanding of SR, this is where the Lorentz contraction of distance comes in.

An observer on Earth would see the clock on board the spacecraft running slow, so that 0.0002sec passed and the distance as what we measure it to be. However the astronaut would see the opposite: the clock running normally, but the distance from Earth to Mars greatly contracted, such that it only took 0.0002 sec to get there. So the two things are equivalent: whenever you get a time dilation in one frame of reference, you get a concomitant length contraction in the other. (This at least is how I have always understood the cosmic ray muons observation, beloved of physicists trying to explain SR to idiot chemists. ;))
 

Spirit of Light

Be who ever you want
Suppose an ultrafast spaceship flies in a straight line. It flies, without stopping. It passes the Earth at the moment of 0 seconds (of spaceship clock in the astronaut's cabin), and then at the moment of 0.0002 seconds spaceship meets Mars, and then, having passed it, it reaches Pluto at the moment 0.003 seconds and flies on without stopping. Thus, the moment of flight over Mars is very small: 0.000000001 seconds. The Theory of Relativity claims that when the speed of the ship would be up to the speed of light, all three of these numbers become indistinguishable from zero. But then, from the point of view of the astronaut, a meeting with Mars occurs almost instantly, thereby Mars flies passing the ship with almost instantaneous speed. And this contradicts the law of nature that the speed of Mars should be less than the speed of light (no matter what position Mars is considered from).

After all, what is the relativity of motion? From a bus passenger's point of view, the bus does not move but the tree moves, which the bus passes. And if a tree moves on a passenger position instantly, according to the passenger's wristwatch, then the speed of motion of the tree exceeds the speed of light.

Correction of this paradox should include such a concept as Virtual Terms - mathematical insertions into the equations and laws of nature, which are made not from fundamental premises, but “by hand” in order to fit the theory under observation. An example of such inserts is Dark Matter and Dark Energy, therefore, they cannot be directly detected, but to measure their effect on nature is possible. As a prime example, the Dark Matter anomaly has acted on the space-time grid so much that it created an additional force of attraction of stars to the center of their galaxy.

By the way, the proton radius measured by many experimenters was different in different years. This riddle did not find yet a solution: Jean-Philippe Karr, Dominique Marchand, "Progress on the proton-radius puzzle", Nature 2019. I solve this with a virtual insert V into the radius value: r = R + V.

The explanation for specialists:

If the speed of Mars in my problem does not exceed the speed of light, then this speed is equal to v. The astronaut does not move in relation to the spaceship, so the proper length of the ship L does not depend on the speed of the ship. Then, the duration of the encounter with Mars is simply L / v (according to astronaut's clock). In the limit of high speeds, it does not become zero but tends to L / c. However, the time on the astronaut's clock of the entire journey from Earth to Pluto becomes zero, because the time of a high-speed object stops. The contradiction is then L/c=0, whereas L is not zero and not small.

Published in viXra: 1911.0239
Can i ask how you get to your ideas for this kind of posts? As i said earlier i am no expert on science, but this sound totally wrong. light travels at a speed of 300.000 km per second(186000 mi/s) . And how do you imagine a spaceship build on earth to withstand those kind of forces it would have to endure by speed up to 300.000 km per second?
 

ChristineM

"Be strong", I whispered to my coffee.
Premium Member
According to my limited understanding of SR, this is where the Lorentz contraction of distance comes in.

An observer on Earth would see the clock on board the spacecraft running slow, so that 0.0002sec passed and the distance as what we measure it to be. However the astronaut would see the opposite: the clock running normally, but the distance from Earth to Mars greatly contracted, such that it only took 0.0002 sec to get there. So the two things are equivalent: whenever you get a time dilation in one frame of reference, you get a concomitant length contraction in the other. (This at least is how I have always understood the cosmic ray muons observation, beloved of physicists trying to explain SR to idiot chemists. ;))


My disquiet here is with 0.0002 of a second and similar incredibly tiny time spans. The power requirements alone are unimaginable. And as @Amanaki says above the forces involved...
 

questfortruth

Well-Known Member
However the astronaut would see ... the distance from Earth to Mars greatly contracted, such that it only took 0.0002 sec to get there.
The observer on Earth sees in a telescope, how the meeting with Mars begins at astronaut's time 0.0002 seconds (then front-side of the ship meets the Mars position) and ends when the back-side of the ship meets Mars position at 0.0002+0.000000001 seconds. It is not necessary, but you can recall the Lorentz contraction of the moving object according to Earth observer: S=L*sqrt{1-v^2/c^2}. Thus, there are beginning and end of the meeting with Mars, which lasts T(v)=0.000000001 seconds. The proper length of the ship L is velocity-independent, thus, the speed of the meeting can exceed the light-speed by simple division: L / T(c) > c, because T(c)=0, L<>0.
 

questfortruth

Well-Known Member
My disquiet here is with 0.0002 of a second and similar incredibly tiny time spans. The power requirements alone are unimaginable. And as @Amanaki says above the forces involved...
Another title of my contribution is "Twin Paradox revisited". This paradox, according to Wikipedia and its peer-review sources, tells us, that the space-travel lasts as less, as high the velocity of travel is. In the limit v -> c, it is an instant moment to travel from Earth to Pluto.

Can i ask how you get to your ideas for this kind of posts? As i said earlier i am no expert on science, but this sound totally wrong. light travels at a speed of 300.000 km per second(186000 mi/s) . And how do you imagine a spaceship build on earth to withstand those kind of forces it would have to endure by speed up to 300.000 km per second?
My ship does not accelerate. It is the ship of "aliens", it simply on full speed passes Earth, Mars, and Pluto.

 
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exchemist

Veteran Member
My disquiet here is with 0.0002 of a second and similar incredibly tiny time spans. The power requirements alone are unimaginable. And as @Amanaki says above the forces involved...
Sure, but it's obviously only a thought experiment. It is the case that as the speed relative to an observer approaches c the apparent passage of time slows towards zero. The craziness comes later, in the faulty analysis of the motion of Mars. But not being expert in SR I am going to leave that to more qualified people to pick up, if they have the time to spare. :rolleyes:
 
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