The Lord's Day, is it really Sunday?

shmogie said:

Lets talk about sin for a moment. What is it ? You will tell me it is the violation of the ten commandments.

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According to God's Word (not mine) sin is defined as the transgression of any one of God's10 commandments *1 John 3:4; James 2:10-11 and without God's LAW there is no knowledge of what sin is *Romans 3:20; Romans 7:7. Sin is also not believing God's Word when you have been given a knowledge of the truth of God's Word *Romans 14:12. In times of ignorance God winks but when he gives us a knowledge of what his truth is he calls all men everywhere to repent and believe and follow his Word *Acts 17:30-31; James 4:17; Hebrews 10:26-39.

Now all the above is God's Word (not mine) do you believe them?

shmogie said:

So then, if a person is born with a condition that makes them unaccountable for sin, perhaps the mentality of a young child so they never are able to understand sin, and they die at 25, do they need Christs sacrifice, his blood, for salvation ? They never sinned, right ? So why would they need it ? So millions have died sinless, not breaking one of the ten commandments, they are saved separate and apart from Christs sacrifice. Correct ? Martin Luther said we are born in sin as sinners. Adventists do not accept this, or do they ? What do you think ?

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You are confused here brother. God's Word teaches in times of ignorance God winks at to those who believe and follow his Word. According to God's Word all have sinned and fall short of the glory of God *Romans 3:10. It is God's LAW (10 commandments) that lead us to Christ that we might be forgiven through faith *Galatians 3:22-25. That the rightouesness of the law might be fulfilled in us who walk not after the flesh but after the Spirit *Romans 8:1-4. If there is no law there is no knowledge of sin *Romans 3:20; Romans 7:7. If you have no knowledge of what sin is you do not know that you are a sinner and need of a Saviour *Matthew 9:12-13. If you have no need of a Saviour to save you from your sins you have no salvation and are lost in your sins because the wages of sin is death to all those who reject the gift of God's dear son *Romans 6:23.

3rdAngel said:

Accoding to God's Word (not mine) sin is defined as the transgression of any one of God's LAW (10 commandments) *1 John 3:4; James 2:10-11 and without God's LAW there is no knowledge of what sin is *Romans 3:20; Romans 7:7. Sin is also not believing God's Word when you have been given a knowledge of the truth of God's Word *Romans 14:12. In times of ignorance God winks but when he gives us a knowledge of what his truth is he calls all men everywhere to repent and believe and follow his Word *Acts 17:30-31; James 4:17; Hebrews 10:26-39.

Now all the above is God's Word (not mine) do you believe them?

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Jesus was clearly a Sinner in not observing the Sabbath.
Maybe those Sabbath observant Jews were right about
him, all along?

shmogie said:

Adam was perfect, never saw sin, never heard of it, and lived in a perfect environment, there was only one law he had to keep, do not eat. He had no knowledge of good or evil. He made the cold hard choice to sin. Christ is called by Paul the second Adam, did he have Adams sinless nature ? Like you, or not ?

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According to God's Word (not mine) Christ was tempted in all points like we are yet without sin *Hebrews 4:15. It he wasn't he could not be our example 1 Peter 2:21.

shmogie said:

Here is the point, if we are born sinners, sin is more than just breaking some law as you propose. 2nd Corinthians 3:7 NKJV Calls " the ministry engraved on stones" the ten commandments, the ministry of death. He says this ministry had glory which is fading away, but the ministry of righteousness has much more glory. Are you still under the ministry of death ?
Galatians 3:10 NKJV says " For as many that are of the works of the law are under it's curse, for it is written" cursed is everyone who does not continue in ALL things written in the book of the law ( the Torah, which includes the ten commandments) to do them. So, do you keep the law perfectly, if not, you are under a curse, do you sin, if so, you are under a curse. V 7) "Therefore know that only those who are of faith are sons of Abraham.v8) And scripture, foreseeing that God would justify the Gentiles by faith...................................

Galatians 3: 24 " Therefore the law was our tutor to bring us to Christ, that we may be justified by faith, but after faith has come, WE ARE NO LONGER UNDER THE TUTOR."

Those justified by faith are not under the law. Paul means the OT law, including the ten commandments, since the NT law did not completely exist yet.

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Your confused here brother. The ministry of death is sin because the wages of sin is death. All God's Law does is give us a knowledge of what sin is *Romans 3:20 and as Paul says is the law sin? God forbid. No, I had not known sin, but by the law: for I had not known lust, except the law had said, You shall not covet *Romans 7:7.

2 Corinthians 3 is in reference to the new covenant of God's LAW being written on the heart through the Spirit by faith to love in fulfillment of Jeremiah 31:31-36 repeated by Paul in Hebrews 8:10-12. It is God's LAW written on the tables of stone that lead us to the Cross of JESUS that we can find forgiveness through faith *Galatians 3:22-25. No one is "under the law" if they have repented from their sins and have been forgiven through faith. This is the purpose of God's LAW which is to bring us to Christ. We are only "under the law" if we stand before God guilty of breaking God's Law *Romans 3:19. God's salvation is from sin (breaking God's Law - 1 John 3:4) not to continue in sin *John 8:31-36.

If you knowingly continue in sin you will die because all those who continue in known unrepentant sin reject the gift of God's dear son and count the blood of the covenant an unholy thing *Hebrews 10:26-29. Salvation is from sin that the righteousness of the law might be fulfilled in us who walk not after the flesh but after the Spirit *Romans 8:1-4; Romans 8:13; Galatians 5:16.

Let's get this straight and talk plainly...

We are only saved by GRACE through faith and not of ourselves it is a gift of God *EPHESIANS 2:8. OBEDIENCE to God's LAW is not how we are saved it is the FRUIT of God's work in us as we BELIEVE and FOLLOW his WORD by faith that works by LOVE. Salvation is from sin (breaking any one of God’s 10 Commandments) not to continue in sin *ROMANS 6:1-23; JOHN 8:31-36. Those who continue in known unrepentant sin do not know God and need to be Born again into the NEW COVENANT promise to love *HEBREWS 8:10-12; ROMANS 13:8-10. This is God's work in us and a part of the NEW COVENANT promise *HEBREWS 8:10-12; PHILIPPIANS 2:13. If our faith has no fruit it is dead *JAMES 2:18-20; 26 and our tree will be cast down and thrown into the fire *MATTHEW 3:10; 7:19-20; 13:49-50.

May you receive God's Word and be blessed.

PruePhillip said:

No, the Sabbath is not abolished.
The Christian Sabbath became the Sunday - it was in honor of the Lord's
resurrection. The Lord Himself guiding the disciples and followers to do
this.

This is f.a.c.t. - attested by scripture and shown by history.

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The statements you have made are a bald a.s.s.e.r.t.i.o.n., an unproven, a.p.r.i.o.r.i., not at all demonstrated by any evidence in any post you have so far provided.

The "sabbath" is God's rest, which Hebrews 4, demonstrates is from the beginning, God's "works were finished from the foundation of the world" (Hebrews 4:3-4; Genesis 2:1-3; Exodus 20:11). The "sabbath" is God's memorial, hence we are to "Remember" (Exodus 20:8), which ever and always points to His completed and perfect work. As like unto a birthday, which is immovable, being a 'block-chain' event in history, speaking of Creation, and so also Re-creation (Redemption). Jesus death upon the Cross, just before He died, said, "It is finished", and forever tied Creation to Redemption (Re-Creation), and entered in His "rest", the 7th day, the Sabbath.

PruePhillip said:

Jesus was clearly a Sinner in not observing the Sabbath. ...

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What!!!?

It is prophesied of Jesus:


It is written of Jesus:

3rdAngel said:

Acually it is not. Your getting "THE LORDS DAY" confused with "THE DAY OF THE LORD".

Not according to scripture. The Sabbath is defined as the "seventh day" of the week *Matthew 12:8; Hebrews 4:1-5; Genesis 2:1-3. "Thereforw it remains for the people of God to keep the Sabbath" Hebrews 4:9. There is no scripture that says JESUS is a Sabbath.

This is talking about the Gospel rest of believing and following God's Word not God's seventh day Sabbath.

God bless.

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Have you not read the book of Hebrews ,chapters 3-4..

In the speaking about the 7th day Sabbath.
The 7th day Sabbath was to lead Israel to Christ Jesus.
Keep in mind as we go thru Hebrews 3&4,
Israel was in the keeping the 7th day Sabbath, But God swore in his wrath that Israel would not enter his Rest. But yet Israel was in the keeping the 7th day Sabbath 40 years in the wilderness desert.
So how exactly does this work.
Israel keeping the 7th day sabbath
for 40 years, but still wasn't entering God's rest.

In the book of Hebrews chapters 3&4, God had this to say about Israel and the 7th day Sabbath.

Note that the subject and article is about Israel keeping the Sabbath day in the book of Hebrews chapters 3&4.

Hebrews 3:8-11--"Harden not your hearts, as in the provocation, in the day of temptation in the wilderness"


9- When your fathers tempted me, proved me, and saw my works forty years.

(This being Israel in the desert
wilderness 40 years and in the keeping the 7th day Sabbath 40 years)


10 -Wherefore I was grieved with that generation, and said, They do alway err in their heart; and they have not known my ways"

( Take note here, that even though Israel was in the wilderness 40 years and in the keeping the 7th day Sabbath 40 years, Israel still didn't know God's ways.

Therefore just because people keep the 7th day Sabbath does not constitute them in knowing God's ways) as was Israel 40 years in the wilderness and in the keeping the 7th day Sabbath 40 years, but still didn't know God's ways.

11 -So I sware in my wrath, They shall not enter into my rest"

( Take Note here, God sware in his wrath, Israel shall not enter God's rest.

Just because Israel was in the keeping the 7th day Sabbath 40 years in the wilderness, Israel still was not entering God's rest.

So what we have here is God's rest and the 7th day Sabbath. Just because people keep the 7th day Sabbath does not constitute them as entering God's rest)

Hebrews 4:5-11---"5 And in this place again, If they shall enter into my rest)

( Note here, God saying if Israel shall enter into his rest, nothing about the 7th day Sabbath, Just because Israel was keeping the 7th day Sabbath, Israel was not entering God's rest)

6 Seeing therefore it remain's that some must enter therein, and they to whom it was first preached entered not in because of unbelief)

( Just because Israel was keeping the 7th day Sabbath, Israel was not entering God's rest, because of their unbelief)

7 Again, he limiteth a certain day, saying in David, To day, after so long a time; as it is said, To day if ye will hear his voice, harden not your hearts.

( Here we find God did limited a certain day, The 7th day Sabbath was to lead Israel to Christ Jesus, but as it is, Israel harden their hearts against Christ Jesus)

8 For if Jesus had given them rest, then would he not afterward have spoken of another day)

( Here we find, For if Jesus had given them (Israel) rest, then would not Jesus afterward have spoken of another day. Jesus never in all the time he was here on Earth ever spoken of another day and including the 1st day of week Sunday worship)

9 There remaineth therefore a rest to the people of God)

( Note here-"There remains therefore a rest to the people of God. This being God's rest. Note what Jesus has said in the book of Matthew 11:28--"Come unto me, all you that labour and are heavy laden, and I will give you rest"

Note that Jesus said, he will give you rest, Jesus said nothing about the 7th day Sabbath. Only that he, himself will give you rest. As a Christian, I rest in Christ Jesus and not on any day of the week)

10 For he that is entered into his rest, he also hath ceased from his own works, as God did from his)

( Note here, " For he that is entered into his rest" As a Christian, I rest in God, I rest from my physical work, as God rest from his work of creation) I rest in Christ Jesus.

11--"Let us labour therefore to enter into that rest, lest any man fall after the same example of unbelief)

( Seeing Israel was keeping the 7th day Sabbath, Israel was not entering God's rest. Just because people are keeping the 7th day Sabbath, does not mean or constitute that they are entering God's rest. As did Israel in keeping the 7th day Sabbath, Israel was not entering God's rest. Just because people keep Sunday as a day of rest in worship, does not mean they entering God's rest either)

1st Corinthians 5:7---"Purge out therefore the old leaven, that you may be a new lump, as you are unleavened. For even Christ our Passover is sacrificed for us"

Note, that Christ our Passover" The Passover being the High Sabbath of rest. Therefore Christ becomes the Christians Rest and not any day.

As Israel kept the 7th day Sabbath to lead Israel to Christ Jesus and that now Christ Jesus has come, Christ Jesus fulfilled the 7th day Sabbath, by keeping it himself, Therefore Christ Jesus has become the Christians Rest and not any day of the week)

( For if keeping a day and thats all you will be doing, is just keeping a day. As Israel in the keeping the 7th day Sabbath 40 years, But as God sware in his wrath Israel will not enter his rest.

Therefore there remains a rest to the people of God, Christ Jesus our Rest

Crosstian said:

What!!!?
It is prophesied of Jesus:

(copy and paste.....)

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No, Jesus is a sinner. He violated the Sabbath
He diminished the Ten Commandments by interjecting Himself into the discussion
(ie You have heard ... but I say...")
He gave a New Covenant which had no time for the Law of Moses.
He bypassed significant religious observances.
He claimed He was the Passover - and bypassed the Passover too.
He condemned a whole generation of people who were observing the law and Commandments.
He gave His disciples the wrong impression by meeting with them every Sunday
He did nothing, nor directed the Holy Spirit, to correct the Apostles who though Sunday was the Lord's Day.

Faithofchristian said:

Have you not read the book of Hebrews ...

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I have, and done a complete indepth study of it (here's the short version):


Hebrews 3-4 (among many others; John 14:15; Exodus 20:6; Isaiah 56:1,8; John 10:16; Isaiah 56:2-7, Acts 4:24, 14:15; Revelation 10:6, 14:6-7, &c).

Hebrews 3-4 is clear.

Hebrews 4:3, "my (God's) rest" and "the works were finished from the foundation of the world", which is a direct reference to Genesis 2:1-3. It even uses the word "finished". God rested the 7th day in Genesis 2:1-3. It is His rest, the 7th day, the sabbath (rest) of the LORD thy God, Exodus 20:8-11.

Hebrews 4:4, "he spake in a certain place of the seventh day on this wise, And God did rest the seventh day from all his works", which "certain place" is Genesis 2:1-3; re-cited in Exodus 20:8-11. The 7th day the sabbath (rest) of the LORD thy God.

Hebrews 4:5, "my (God's) rest)", citing Psalms 95, which is citing Genesis 2:1-3; Exodus 20:8-11, etc. Again, this is the 7th day the sabbath (rest) of God at Creation in Genesis 2:1-3.

Hebrews 4:6, "remaineth", from when? "from the foundation of the world" as per Hebrews 4:3 and thus it is not new, but has been around from the beginning.

Hebrews 4:9, "rest", sabbatismos, literally and truly sabbath keeping in scripture and in all known extant Greek sources, dictionaries, and so on and again "remaineth".

Hebrews 4:10, "his (God's) rest", which is the 7th day the sabbath (rest) of the LORD thy God from Genesis 2:1-3., "as God did from his (works)", which "works were finished from the foundation of the world" as per Hebrews 4:3.

Hebrews 4:11, "that rest" (ie God's rest), the 7th day the sabbath (rest) of the LORD thy God.

PruePhillip said:

No, Jesus is a sinner. He violated the Sabbath...

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Again, you cite "you", while I have provided a plethora of scripture. There is not a single verse in scripture (KJB) which says that Jesus 'violated the Sabbath'.

Crosstian said:

I have, and done a complete indepth study of it:

The book of Hebrews is built upon the ladder of learning system, beginning with the foundation, and building upon each precisely measured truth, in its “therefore”, “wherefore” and “for” statements. For instance:

Hebrews 1, lays the foundation in the eternal unchanging Deity and Co-Creatorship of Jesus Christ, who has a more excellent name than that of the created angelic hosts.

Hebrews 2, then begins with the connecting link to the previous foundation, with its “therefore”, and builds upon the other nature of Jesus Christ, namely that of the likeness of his fallen sinful flesh nature of humanity that He had taken upon Himself.

Hebrews 3, then continues to build upon those two things further, and connects to the past truth, with its “wherefore”, and delves straight into the peoples Israel [sons of natural Jacob] of the past, with Moses as a type of Christ; thus showing that Christ is the greater Moses, and in vs 7, another link “wherefore”, pointing to the failure in faith, and the rebellion of action as the result, drawing a parallel between they of old, and the we of then in Paul's day and so also now.

Hebrews 4, then continues the building exhortation, by its “Let us therefore”, and moves right into an an expanded comparison of the past with the present situation, in matters of living faith, granting the victory over sin. Paul, under inspiration of the Holy Ghost, draws from several passages of scripture, and draws a conclusion, with another link in vs 6, a “therefore” and further throughout with additional conclusions and places to step higher, in vs 14, “Seeing then”, and vs 16, “Let us therefore”. Living faith may therefore climb up Jacob's ladder [Christ Jesus] and reach the Throne of Grace, even “boldly”, to find pardon and cleansing for sin.

Hebrews 5, then takes this point on faith, grace, forgiveness, and cleansing, and takes the next step, pointing out the temporary changing Highpriests of old, and the eternal Highpriesthood of Jesus Christ, who is now, with its “For”.

Hebrews 6, then takes this another step higher, with its link of “Therefore”, and moves into the eternal promises of God and eternal covenant made with Abraham [etc], in Christ Jesus, and that true living and abiding faith in contrast with that which is mere 'fool's gold faith' [I believe, I believe, and no corresponding result, thus draw back into doubt, masking as 'faith'].

Hebrews 7, then going further into detail about how Jesus Christ can be a real Highpriest, is linked to the previous, with its “For this”, demonstrating that Jesus is after a higher order, a more ancient order of priest, the Melchizedek priesthood, to which even Abraham, the father of the faithful, acknowledges by tithe. Paul draws out a conclusion in vs 11, “If therefore” and continues.

Hebrews 8, reaches a midway peak, and summarizes all that has been stated before, with its “Now of the things which we have spoken this is the sum”, and continues by contrasting the shadows of the Levitical with the reality of Jesus' Melchizedical, along with the old and new covenants.

Hebrews 9, begins with the summarized truth, “Then verily”, and shows the contrast of the earthly sanctuary and its recurring animal sacrifices with that of the true Heavenly, with Christ as the real Mediator between God and man, and the one true sacrifice that was foretold from the beginning, which parallels the language of Colossians 2 and Ephesians 2.

Hebrews 10, continues the thought of Hebrews 9, with is “For”, and shows that the Levitical written laws had types, figures and shadows all pointing to their substance, their body, their reality, Christ Jesus, and because we now have the real sacrifice, sins can truly be cleansed, whereas the blood of goats and calves do not do so, and that everyone taking hold of this sacrifice may enter into God's presence through faith in it.

Hebrews 11, then takes us back to the beginning with “Now faith” and “by faith ...” in the Lamb slain from the foundation of the world, and unites the peoples of faith gone before, with those present, and all those yet to come in the redemption and resurrection provided in Christ Jesus.

Hebrews 12, takes this great 'hall of faith', and links to it with “wherefore”, for the now present persons looking at the significance of the death, burial, resurrection and ascension of the Messiah, and continues with the striking difference between the judgments gone before because of transgression/sin, and the great Judgment to come, but not to grow weary and cling to the blessed Hope, which is Christ Jesus.

Hebrews 13, one can hear the echoed “wherefore” of Hebrews 12:28, in that also in vs 29 God is a consuming fire, who is love, and so “Let brotherly love continue.”, and like as Jesus so loved, in Hebrews 13:12, “wherefore” we ought also to follow such an example of love, and thus, chapters 11, 12 and 13, might appropriately be called the chapters of “Faith, Hope & Love”, and the greatest of these is Love.​

Hebrews 3-4 (among many others; John 14:15; Exodus 20:6; Isaiah 56:1,8; John 10:16; Isaiah 56:2-7, Acts 4:24, 14:15; Revelation 10:6, 14:6-7, &c).

Hebrews 3-4 is clear.

Hebrews 4:3, "my (God's) rest" and "the works were finished from the foundation of the world", which is a direct reference to Genesis 2:1-3. It even uses the word "finished". God rested the 7th day in Genesis 2:1-3. It is His rest, the 7th day, the sabbath (rest) of the LORD thy God, Exodus 20:8-11.

Hebrews 4:4, "he spake in a certain place of the seventh day on this wise, And God did rest the seventh day from all his works", which "certain place" is Genesis 2:1-3; re-cited in Exodus 20:8-11. The 7th day the sabbath (rest) of the LORD thy God.

Hebrews 4:5, "my (God's) rest)", citing Psalms 95, which is citing Genesis 2:1-3; Exodus 20:8-11, etc. Again, this is the 7th day the sabbath (rest) of God at Creation in Genesis 2:1-3.

Hebrews 4:6, "remaineth", from when? "from the foundation of the world" as per Hebrews 4:3 and thus it is not new, but has been around from the beginning.

Hebrews 4:9, "rest", sabbatismos, literally and truly sabbath keeping in scripture and in all known extant Greek sources, dictionaries, and so on and again "remaineth".

Hebrews 4:10, "his (God's) rest", which is the 7th day the sabbath (rest) of the LORD thy God from Genesis 2:1-3., "as God did from his (works)", which "works were finished from the foundation of the world" as per Hebrews 4:3.

Hebrews 4:11, "that rest" (ie God's rest), the 7th day the sabbath (rest) of the LORD thy God.

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Hebrews chapters 3-4. Clearly shows...That just because people keep the Seventh day Sabbath..does not constitute them as entering God's rest..

PruePhillip said:

...He condemned a whole generation of people who were observing the law and Commandments. ...

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Jesus most certainly did not.


Jesus condemned the non-keeping:

Faithofchristian said:

Hebrews chapters 3-4. Clearly shows...That just because people keep the Seventh day Sabbath..does not constitute them as entering God's rest..

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No, what it shows, is that those who do not have Christ Jesus, cannot properly enter God's rest, the 7th day the sabbath of His.

Crosstian said:

Again, you cite "you", while I have provided a plethora of scripture. There is not a single verse in scripture (KJB) which says that Jesus 'violated the Sabbath'.

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I have given you a plethora of non-copy&paste questions, but you cherry pick them.
Jesus, in calling Himself the Lord of the Sabbath, was putting Himself above the
Sabbath - and this is why he worked on the Sabbath, and told others to work also.

And in encouraging his people to gather on Sunday, and not stopping them from
thinking the Lord's Day was now Sunday - he openly violated the Sabbath meaning.

Faithofchristian said:

Have you not read the book of Hebrews ,chapters 3-4..

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Sure have brother. Hebrews 3 and Hebrews 4 are showing that no one enters into God's REST which is defined in God's Word (not mine) as God's "seveth day sabbath" *Hebrews 4:1-5 unless they believe and follow God's Word....

HEBREWS 3 and HEBREWS 4. These chapters also link very nicely into PSLAMS 95 if you have some time to read it but we will not touch on PSALMS 95 in this post.

For this post let's look at HEBREWS 3 and HEBREWS 4 and within Chapter and Scripture context highlighting what the scriptures are saying...

Hebrews 3
8, Harden not your hearts, as in the provocation, in the day of temptation in the wilderness:
9, When your fathers tempted me, proved me, and saw my works forty years.
10, Why I was grieved with that generation, and said, They do always err in their heart; and they have not known my ways.
11, So I swore in my wrath, They shall not enter into MY REST.
12, Take heed, brothers, lest there be in any of you an evil heart of unbelief, in departing from the living God.
13, But exhort one another daily, while it is called To day; lest any of you be hardened through the deceitfulness of sin.
14, For we are made partakers of Christ, if we hold the beginning of our confidence steadfast to the end;
15, While it is said, To day if you will hear his voice, harden not your hearts, as in the provocation.
16, For some, when they had heard, did provoke: however, not all that came out of Egypt by Moses.
17, But with whom was he grieved forty years? was it not with them that had sinned, whose carcasses fell in the wilderness?
18, And to whom swore he that they should not enter into his rest, but to them that believed not?
19, So we see that they could not enter in because of unbelief.

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KEY POINTS OF HEBREWS 3

v8-10 God's people in the winderness erred and hardened their hearts not knowing God's ways
v11 Because they hardened their hearts not knowing God's way God was angry and did not let them enter HIS REST
v13 Hardness of heart comes from the deceitfulness of SIN (breaking God's LAW)
v19 God's people did not enter into God's REST because of UNBELIEF

Hebrews 3 links to the testimony of Ezekiel of God’s people not entering God’s Sabbath rest..

EZEKIEL 20:10-13 [10], Why I caused them to go forth out of the land of Egypt and BROGHT THEM INTO THE WILDERNESS. [11], And I gave them my statutes, and showed them my judgments, which if a man do, he shall even live in them. [12], Moreover ALSO I GAVE THEM MY SABBATHS, TO BE A SIGN BETWEEN ME AND THEM THAT THEY MAY KNOW THAT I AM THE LORD THAT SANCTIFY THEM. [13], But THE HOUSE OF ISRAEL REBELLED AGAINST ME IN THE WILDERNESS: THEY WALKED NOT IN MY STATUTES AND DISPISED MY JUDGMENTS WHICH IF A MAN DO THEY SHALL LIVE IN THEM AND MY SABBATHS THEY GREATLY POLUTED: then I said, I would pour out my fury on them in the wilderness, to consume them..

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WHAT IS HIS (God's) REST IN HEBREWS 3 and HEBREWS 4?

HEBREWS 4
[1], Let us therefore fear, lest, a promise being left us of entering into HIS REST, any of you should seem to come short of it.
[2], For to us was the gospel preached, as well as to them: but the word preached did not profit them, not being mixed with faith in them that heard it.
[3], For we which have believed do enter into rest, as he said, As I have sworn in my wrath, if they shall enter into MY REST: ALTHOUGH THE WORKS WERE FINISHED FROM THE FOUNDATION OF THE WORLD.
[4], FOR HE SPOKE IN A CERTAIN PLACE (GENSIS 2:1-3) OF THE SEVENTH DAY ON THIS WISE, AND GOD DID REST THE SEVENTH DAY FROM ALL HIS WORKS.
[5], And in this place again, If they shall enter into MY REST.

KEY POINTS OF HEBREWS 4:1-5

NOTE: CONTEXT is God's REST from the SEVENTH DAY SABBATH REST OF CREATION (v4-5) and those who BELIEVE and FOLLOW GOD's WORD enter into God's SABBATH REST as GOD did on the SEVENTH DAY of the week. CONTEXT is GOD's SEVENTH DAY SABBATH REST and those who believe or do not believe God's WORD and enter into that rest.

[6], Seeing therefore it remains that some must enter therein, and they to whom it was first preached entered not in because of unbelief:
[7], Again, he limits a certain day, saying in David, To day, after so long a time; as it is said, To day if you will hear his voice, harden not your hearts.
[8], For if Jesus had given them rest, then would he not afterward have spoken of another day.
[9], SO THEN IT REMAINS FOR THE PEOPLE OF GOD TO KEEP THE SABBATH

KEY POINTS OF HEBREWS 4:9

Now notice Hebrews 4, verse 9: “There remains therefore a SABBATH rest to the people of God.” In verses 1, 3, 4 and 8, the Greek word for “rest” is katapausin. It means “rest.” But in verse 9, the Greek word for “rest” is sabbatismos, which is a Hebrew word—Sabbat, which means “the Sabbath”—combined with a Greek suffix—ismos, which means “a keeping of” or “a doing of.” Put together, sabbatismo means “a keeping of the Sabbath.” When correctly translated, Hebrews 4:9 should read, “There remains therefore a keeping of the Sabbath to the people of God.”

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INTERLINEAR HEBREWS 4:9

αρα απολειπεται σαββατισμος τω λαω του θεου
So then there remains a Sabbath rest to the people - of God

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Parallel translations of HEBREWS 4:9

New International Version
There remains, then, a Sabbath-rest for the people of God;

English Standard Version
So then, there remains a Sabbath rest for the people of God,

Berean Study Bible
So there remains a Sabbath rest for the people of God.

Berean Literal Bible
So then, there remains a Sabbath rest for the people of God.

New American Standard Bible
So there remains a Sabbath rest for the people of God.

Christian Standard Bible
Therefore, a Sabbath rest remains for God's people.

Holman Christian Standard Bible
Therefore, a Sabbath rest remains for God's people.

International Standard Version
There remains, therefore, a Sabbath rest for the people of God to keep,

NET Bible
Consequently a Sabbath rest remains for the people of God.

New Heart English Bible
There remains therefore a Sabbath rest for the people of God.

Aramaic Bible in Plain English
So then, it remains for the people of God to keep the Sabbath.

New American Standard 1977
There remains therefore a Sabbath rest for the people of God.

American Standard Version
There remaineth therefore a sabbath rest for the people of God.

Darby Bible Translation
There remains then a sabbatism to the people of God.

English Revised Version
There remaineth therefore a sabbath rest for the people of God.

Weymouth New Testament
It follows that there still remains a sabbath rest for the people of God.

World English Bible
There remains therefore a Sabbath rest for the people of God.

Young's Literal Translation
there doth remain, then, a Sabbatic rest to the people of God,

................

continuing...

[10], For he that is entered into his rest (v9 SABBATH REST), he also has ceased from his own works, as God did from his.
[11], Let us labor therefore to enter into that rest, lest any man fall after the same example of unbelief (Heb 3).

................

CONCLUSION: Yep lots of scripture here showing that if you do not enter into God's Gospel rest you cannot enter his SABBATH REST. v 1-4 is the context of the SEVENTH DAY SABBATH confirmed in v9-11 Hebrews 3-4 is talking about the Gospel and the keeping of God's SEVENTH DAY SABBATH by BELIEVING and FOLLOWING God's WORD. "There remains therefore a SABBATH rest to the people of God. Let us labor therefore to enter into that rest lest any man fall after the same example of unbelief" v9-11. HEBREWS 4 supports the keeping of the SEVENTH DAY SABBATH by believing and following the Word of God.

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God's 4th commandment is one of the ten (Exodus 20:8-11) If we knowingly break it when God asks us not to we stand guilty before God of committing sin (James 2:8-12). If we do not seek him in repentance and forgiveness we are in danger of the Judgement (Hebrews 10:26-27)

Sunday worship is a tradition and teaching of man that has lead many to break the commandments of God. Jesus says that if we follow the traditions of man that break the commandments of God we are not following God (Matthew 15:3-9)

There is not one scripture in all of God's Word that says that God's 4th Commandment is now ABOLISHED and we are now commanded to KEEP Sunday as a Holy day.

Who should we follow the teachings and traditions of men or the Word of God? Who should we believe the Words of men or the Word of God?

Faithofchristian said:

Hebrews chapters 3-4. Clearly shows...That just because people keep the Seventh day Sabbath..does not constitute them as entering God's rest..

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Indeed. Only those who believe and follow God's Word enter into God's Rest which is defined in God's Word as the "seventh day" Sabbath rest *Hebrews 4:1-5

HEBREWS 3 to HEBREWS 4:1-5 is the context of...

HEBREWS 4:9 SO THEN IT REMAINS FOR THE PEOPLE OF GOD TO KEEP THE SABBATH

Please also see post # 156 linked that has a GREEK scripture breakdown of sabbatismos used in HEBREWS 4:9.

May God help you as you seek him through his Word.

3rdAngel said:

You say Sunday is your day off because this is what your employer ordered. God says that the "seventh day Sabbath" is our day off, and commands us to rest on the "seventh day Sabbath" because he blessed the seventh day and made the seventh day a Holy day or rest. This is a simple decision in my view. We ough to obey God rather than man...

ACTS 5:29 Then Peter and the other apostles answered and said, We ought to obey God rather than men.

Who do you believe and follow; God or man?

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RIGHTLY SO.

We should obey God rather than men.
And as I have shown you before God put a stop on the Sabbath.



Isaiah 1:13 Complete Jewish Bible (CJB)
Stop bringing worthless grain offerings!
They are like disgusting incense to me!
Rosh-Hodesh, Shabbat, calling convocations —
I can’t stand evil together with your assemblies!

Bible Gateway passage: Isaiah 1:13 - Complete Jewish Bible


Shabbat Day of week Description
Shabbat, Shabbos, or the Sabbath, is Judaism's day of rest and seventh day of the week. On this day, religious Jews, Samaritans and certain Christians remember the biblical creation of the heavens and the earth in six days and look forward to a future Messianic Age. Wikipedia

So your special day isn't my special day and it is no longer the Lord's day
Everyday is the Lord's day, He owns every day, every minute and every second.

Hosea 2:11 Evangelical Heritage Version (EHV)
I will put an end to all her celebration:
her pilgrimage festivals, her monthly new moons, and her weekly Sabbaths—
all her appointed festivals.

Bible Gateway passage: Hosea 2:11 - Evangelical Heritage Version

We are just going circles.
I have told you before it is the weekly Sabbaths described in the above Bible references
You would not believe because you don't like to believe
Maybe you have invested too much time, too much money in your religion teaching half bible truths. That you have just made up your mind like a fanatic, a zealot not based on knowledge. Now that is bad. My recommendation is cut your losses and save your soul. Just let it go.

We simply cannot make Isaiah 1:13 and Hosea 2:11 to disappear
It is God's repealing clause regarding the Sabbath, that law is passe and intended only for the Israelites - for them exclusively.

3rdAngel said:

ROMANS 14 is talking about eating and not eating connected to days that men esteem over other days, not what days God esteems. The things that men esteem are an abomination in God's eyes.

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Romans 14:5-6 Living Bible (TLB)
Some think that Christians should observe the Jewish holidays as special days to worship God, but others say it is wrong and foolish to go to all that trouble, for every day alike belongs to God. On questions of this kind everyone must decide for himself. If you have special days for worshiping the Lord, you are trying to honor him; you are doing a good thing. So is the person who eats meat that has been offered to idols; he is thankful to the Lord for it; he is doing right. And the person who won’t touch such meat, he, too, is anxious to please the Lord, and is thankful.
Bible Gateway passage: Romans 14:5-6 - Living Bible

3rdAngel said:

There is no mention in all of ROMANS 14 of God's 4th commandment of any of God's 10 commandments. Your reading into the scriptures something it is not talking about.

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Romans 14:5-6 Expanded Bible (EXB)
Some ·think [decide; judge] that one day is more ·important [sacred; holy] than another, and others think that every day is the same [C the issue is whether to observe the Jewish Sabbath]. Let all be ·sure [fully convinced] ·in their own mind [according to their convictions/conscience]. Those who ·think one day is more important than other days [L observe the day] are doing that for the Lord. And those who ·eat all kinds of food [L eat] are doing that for the Lord, ·and [since; for] they give thanks to God. Others who ·refuse to eat some foods [L do not eat] do that for the Lord, and they give thanks to God.
Bible Gateway passage: Romans 14:5-6 - Expanded Bible

Colossians 2, speaks of plural, "sabbath days" (or 'of sabbaths'). The context, is also not concerned with all 'sabbaths' but is limited in scope, to that which is "shadow" (not light, not body or substance), that which is "of things to come" (type pointing to the future events) and of "ordinances", as follows.

Isaiah and Hosea, etc

God makes a clear distinction in Exodus 20:8-11, and again in Leviticus 23, as well as Numbers 28:

Furthermore, Numbers 28, is in contrast to the other verses, notice:

Numbers 28:9-10 is the weekly 7th Day, since it states "the sabbath day", and "every sabbath", literally "sabbath to sabbath [Numbers 28:10 HOT Translit. - olat shaBat B'shaBaTô al-olat haTämiyd w'niš'KäH š, which is similar to Isaiah 66:23 HOT Translit. - w'häyäh miDëy-chodesh B'chäd'shô ûmiDëy shaBät B'shaBaTô yävô khäl-Bäsär l'hish'Tacháwot l'fänay ämar y'hwäh].

Notice, that Numbers 28, delineates the 7th day before all the others.


This is undisputed, and undisputable.

The 7th day is never listed last, and in Numbers 28 it is in increasing order (daily, weekly, seasonly, monthly, yearly). Even as in Leviticus 23, and Leviticus 25, followed by all the other materials, the daily meat and drink offerings, seasonal feast days, monthly new moons, and of years (yearly) sabbaths (7th and 50th years).

Galatians 4:10 -

You are in great error here, seeing as you reversed the textual order to being with:

Gal 4:10 Ye observe days, and months, and times, and years.

1 Chronicles 23:31 -

Please notice:

1Ch 23:30 And to stand every morning to thank and praise the LORD, and likewise at even;
1Ch 23:31 And to offer all burnt sacrifices unto the LORD in the sabbaths, in the new moons, and on the set feasts, by number, according to the order commanded unto them, continually before the LORD:

Vs 30 begins with the "daily", even the "morning" and "even[ing]".
vs 31 continues with weekly sabbaths, monthly new moons, seasonal feasts (spring/fall), which would also include the yearly sabbaths following.

Therefore, it is again, in increasing, nor decreasing order. [1] days, [2] weeks, [3] months [4] seasons [5] yearly.

In Colossians 2, the weekly are not included, as they are not "ordinances", but rather God's Law.

Why are you reversing the order from what is clearly given?

2 Chronicles 2:4 -

Notice again:

2Ch 2:4 Behold, I build an house to the name of the LORD my God, to dedicate it to him, and to burn before him sweet incense, and for the continual shewbread, and for the burnt offerings morning and evening, on the sabbaths, and on the new moons, and on the solemn feasts of the LORD our God. This is an ordinance for ever to Israel.

Notice the "continual", which is the "daily" as seen by the "morning and evening" again. Then follows the weekly, then the monthly, then the seaonsal feast (spring/fall), which also would include the yearly sabbaths that take place within some of them. Notice that not all feasts are sabbaths, and thu are two distinct phenomena.

Again your order is reversed.

2 Chronicles 8:13 -

Notice again:

2Ch 8:13 Even after a certain rate every day, offering according to the commandment of Moses, on the sabbaths, and on the new moons, and on the solemn feasts, three times in the year, even in the feast of unleavened bread, and in the feast of weeks, and in the feast of tabernacles.

"certiain rate every day" (meat and drink offerings), is the daily again. This is followed by the weekly, then the monthly and the seasonal festal (spring/fall) and thus includes "three times in the year", or yearly.

You order is reversed.

2 Chronicles 31:3 -

Notice:

2Ch 31:3 He appointed also the king's portion of his substance for the burnt offerings, to wit, for the morning and evening burnt offerings, and the burnt offerings for the sabbaths, and for the new moons, and for the set feasts, as it is written in the law of the LORD.

Notice the "burnt offerings: for the daily "morning and evening". This is followed by the weekly, then the monthly new moons, and then the seasonal festal (spring/fall), which would include the yearly again.

Your order is reversed.

Nehemiah 10:33 -

Notice:

Neh 10:33 For the shewbread, and for the continual meat offering, and for the continual burnt offering, of the sabbaths, of the new moons, for the set feasts, and for the holy things, and for the sin offerings to make an atonement for Israel, and for all the work of the house of our God.

Notice the "continual" or daily. Then follows the weekly sabbaths, the monthly new moons, the seaonal festal (spring/fall)), and the ultimate "atonement" is on the Day of Atonement, which is yearly, again.

Your order is reversed.

Isaiah 1:13-14 -

Notice:

Isa 1:13 Bring no more vain oblations; incense is an abomination unto me; the new moons and sabbaths, the calling of assemblies, I cannot away with; it is iniquity, even the solemn meeting.
Isa 1:14 Your new moons and your appointed feasts my soul hateth: they are a trouble unto me; I am weary to bear them.

Isaiah is a little more interesting in that it is paralleled to itself. The "sabbaths" are specific to "appointed feasts" in their seaons, not the weekly 7th day the sabbath of the Lord. God would never tell His people to transgress His Law of Ten Commandments. however, He would make mention of those things which were to point forward to Christ Jesus that they were abusing.

Again this would teach, and increasing order, "new moons", "sabbaths (identified as those in the appointed feasts)".

Thus your order is reversed.

Ezekiel 45:17 -

This is what Paul cites in Colossians 2:16 and already demonstrated to not be as you stated, but also in reverse of what you stated.

Eze 45:17 And it shall be the prince's part to give burnt offerings, and meat offerings, and drink offerings, in the feasts, and in the new moons, and in the sabbaths, in all solemnities of the house of Israel: he shall prepare the sin offering, and the meat offering, and the burnt offering, and the peace offerings, to make reconciliation for the house of Israel.

See those replies. Again, it is in increasing order, daily (offerings), seasonal festal, monthly new moons, yearly sabbaths, all dealing with the sanctuary services as context showed.

Ezekiel 46:1-11 -

Notice, just an expansion of Ezekiel 45:17:

Eze 46:1 Thus saith the Lord GOD; The gate of the inner court that looketh toward the east shall be shut the six working days; but on the sabbath it shall be opened, and in the day of the new moon it shall be opened.
Eze 46:2 And the prince shall enter by the way of the porch of that gate without, and shall stand by the post of the gate, and the priests shall prepare his burnt offering and his peace offerings, and he shall worship at the threshold of the gate: then he shall go forth; but the gate shall not be shut until the evening.
Eze 46:3 Likewise the people of the land shall worship at the door of this gate before the LORD in the sabbaths and in the new moons.
Eze 46:4 And the burnt offering that the prince shall offer unto the LORD in the sabbath day shall be six lambs without blemish, and a ram without blemish.
Eze 46:5 And the meat offering shall be an ephah for a ram, and the meat offering for the lambs as he shall be able to give, and an hin of oil to an ephah.
Eze 46:6 And in the day of the new moon it shall be a young bullock without blemish, and six lambs, and a ram: they shall be without blemish.
Eze 46:7 And he shall prepare a meat offering, an ephah for a bullock, and an ephah for a ram, and for the lambs according as his hand shall attain unto, and an hin of oil to an ephah.
Eze 46:8 And when the prince shall enter, he shall go in by the way of the porch of that gate, and he shall go forth by the way thereof.
Eze 46:9 But when the people of the land shall come before the LORD in the solemn feasts, he that entereth in by the way of the north gate to worship shall go out by the way of the south gate; and he that entereth by the way of the south gate shall go forth by the way of the north gate: he shall not return by the way of the gate whereby he came in, but shall go forth over against it.
Eze 46:10 And the prince in the midst of them, when they go in, shall go in; and when they go forth, shall go forth.
Eze 46:11 And in the feasts and in the solemnities the meat offering shall be an ephah to a bullock, and an ephah to a ram, and to the lambs as he is able to give, and an hin of oil to an ephah.

Hosea 2:11

Notice:

Hos 2:11 I will also cause all her mirth to cease, her feast days, her new moons, and her sabbaths, and all her solemn feasts.

Context, "her sabbaths", which are "[their] sabbaths", and is not God's Sabbath (Genesis 2:1-3; Exodus 20:8-11), as shown earlier. The fulfillment of Daniel 9.

Both Hosea and Isaiah do not refer to "my [God's] holy day", the sabbath of the LORD, which is "His". They both refer to "her" and "your" things, the types given after sin of mankind, not the eternal Law of God. Anyone saying otherwise, simply has an issue reading and understanding gender pronouns.