Shad
Veteran Member
The Bill is not targeted at science nor does it change academic standards. At worst a teacher reads a bit of religious babble, rolls eyes, and moves on.
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New Ohio law allows students to be scientifically wrong.
- Thread starter Polymath257
- Start date
The Bill is not targeted at science nor does it change academic standards. At worst a teacher reads a bit of religious babble, rolls eyes, and moves on.
dybmh
דניאל יוסף בן מאיר הירש
Please forgive me for butting in...
But I keep thinking of this extreme hypothetical example, ( and I know I'm exposing my bias by saying this )...
What if a student gives the correct scientific answer to a question on a test followed by a smug disclaimer:
"** Except that all this is not true because it's not in the Bible. **"
In this ( admittedly ridiculous scenario ) do you think the religious commentary should be ignored?
dybmh
דניאל יוסף בן מאיר הירש
I keep going back to the STEM school qualifier in the bill. But maybe it's not significant.
Either way, if I was in process to become a science teacher... doesn't it make sense to avoid Ohio? Isn't passage of this bill 60/30 a sign that the State Legislature is currently unfriendly towards science teachers? it communicates a lack of common ground and common aspirations.
Jose Fly
Fisker of men
I understand that's what you believe.
Fair 'nuff.Yes. Interested in making a comment. I do that from time to time. One comment is okay on RF, unless pressed by a poster to say more.
Do you believe those Christian scientists who do see the idea of LUCA as accurate are "true Christians" (for lack of a better term)? Do you believe they're risking their salvation in doing so?
Shad
Veteran Member
No as the curriculum wasn't changed. All this Bill does is let student express their religious views without reward nor punishment in class. It also protects their right to form clubs of a religious nature at school. The Bill is about religious freedoms
Jose Fly
Fisker of men
Pretty simple...."You gave me an F on my answers that were expressions of my religious beliefs. That's penalizing me for the religious content of my work, which is illegal."
Because the answer is entirely religious content, which means that's what the grade was based on.
That's the main problem with the law...it's self-contradictory.
Jose Fly
Fisker of men
More dodging. As lawyers like to say, the questions a person dodges tell you more than the ones they answer.
Shad
Veteran Member
Wrong. My answer was directly based on the Bill. Try again. Maybe try reading the Bill son.
Babble. Try again.
Under the Ohio law the comment should not affect the grade provided they can provide the curriculum reply, do whatever calculations are necessary.
Should this be the case? Students in public schools can get away with all kinds of snark. Its part of the problem with public schools. Why would religious snark be the only exception.
Jose Fly
Fisker of men
Ok, let's try again.
Is giving a student an F on an assignment penalizing the student?
Where does the bill "prevent grading of religious views" as you claimed?
dybmh
דניאל יוסף בן מאיר הירש
Thank you for this.
You convinced me... In this hypothetical scenario... I'm assuming the teacher is immature... like me.... HAH!
Shad
Veteran Member
Why did they get the F?
You have reading comprehension issues.
Section 3320.03
"Assignment grades and scores shall be calculated using ordinary academic standards of substance and relevance, including any legitimate pedagogical concerns and shall not penalize nor reward a student based on the religious context of a student's work."
dybmh
דניאל יוסף בן מאיר הירש
Thank you.
On the other hand I am opposed to students expressing Satanic opinions in class. That is just not cool. Satanist students just need to shut up in class about their religion, not say anything Satanic to the teacher. Seriously if I were a teacher and a Satanic student told me I was going to hell for believing in dinosaurs I would be inclined to send them to the principal's office. I just don't get those kids.Thank you for this.
You convinced me... In this hypothetical scenario... I'm assuming the teacher is immature... like me.... HAH!
Shad
Veteran Member
Other parts of the Bill cover unions and CBA of teachers which can be a good or bad thing depending on union and CBA. I say good or bad as a general point not an assessment of any Ohio union or CBA
Shad
Veteran Member
This is the double-edged sword. Now if non-Christians are shot down by Ohio government and/or school boards it demonstrates a clear bias in application of the Bill. Application being the lower tier bureaucrats applying the law in action. These type of Bills create an all or none situations. All religions and/or religious views can be expressed not merely mainstream views.
Jose Fly
Fisker of men
Still dodging. It's a concept question....is giving a student an F (for any reason) penalizing the student?
Is there a specific reason you have to engage in personal insults so frequently?
The law clearly contemplates a student providing religious answers in their work, be it a test question or homework assignment and even states that no school shall "prohibit a student from engaging in religious expression in the completion of homework, artwork, or other written or oral assignments".
So a student gives a religious answer to a question. If they can neither be penalized nor rewarded for that answer, what in your view is a teacher to do?
Jose Fly
Fisker of men
Isn't that penalizing the student for being absent?
Is that penalizing the student for giving the wrong answer?
Your post has been reported for personal insults. That you cannot engage me without such insults speaks volumes.
Shad
Veteran Member
No its a fail for no completion of work.
Yes. That how grades work son. If someone says 1+1=3 that answer is wrong.
That's nice. Only problem is my points are true so not insults but conclusions which are insulting. No different if a student gets an F. It makes them look bad but reflects upon themselves so they whine. Try again son.
You refused to answer my question then babbled about me dodging. I called BS on that. If someone gets an F it is normal to ask why they got the F. You refused to answer. That is because your hidden premise is a religious answer. So if I say "No" you will reveal your hidden premise as a gotcha. If I say "Yes" same thing. You are transparent. Try again son. Look up loaded questions and hidden premises. Yawn.
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Not if they are absent for religious reasons, such as a surprise Satanic conclave. These are very important for Satanists, some of whom must read heavy metal magazines during school hours and smoke in the woods. I've seen the messes they leave.
The questions can get complicated. I think whoever started the OP made at one good point that the law is vague. Its going to generate work for lawyers and judges and cost Ohioans money.