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The Pledge of Allegiance, Going The Way Of The Dodo Bird?

Skwim

Skwim

Veteran Member
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"The Pledge of Allegiance is Going Out of Style in Palo Alto, California

Sue Dremann of the Palo Alto Weekly notes that several local civic groups no longer say the Pledge of Allegiance because they realize it’s historically anti-immigrant, exclusionary, and just a Christian prayer in disguise.


shutterstock_1073388047.jpg



The Rotary [Club] is not alone. The Palo Alto University Rotary Club, Kiwanis Club of Palo Alto and Palo Alto Chamber of Commerce all forego the pledge, saying that the tradition excludes immigrant members and non-Americans who attend their events.
​
The Pledge isn’t banned. It’s recited at certain events even for some of those groups, just not all of them. Obviously anyone can say it on their own whenever they feel like it. But for some ignorant traditionalists, the Pledge, like prayer, only counts if everyone else is forced to do it.

Others in the area said they don’t recite the Pledge, either, but only because they never started. There was no deliberate attempt to stop. Either way, it’s the right move.

Most of the groups that have done away with the ritual are local civic groups or school boards."
source​


And FYI
1892
(first version)
"I pledge allegiance to my Flag and the Republic for which it stands, one nation, indivisible, with liberty and justice for all."

1892 to 1923
(early revision by Bellamy)
"I pledge allegiance to my Flag and to the Republic for which it stands, one nation, indivisible, with liberty and justice for all."

1923 to 1924
"I pledge allegiance to the Flag of the United States and to the Republic for which it stands, one nation, indivisible, with liberty and justice for all."

1924 to 1954
"I pledge allegiance to the Flag of the United States of America and to the Republic for which it stands, one nation, indivisible, with liberty and justice for all."

1954
(current version, per 4 U.S.C. §4)
"I pledge allegiance to the Flag of the United States of America, and to the Republic for which it stands, one Nation under God, indivisible, with liberty and justice for all."


​
So, Is it a custom that's beginning to outlive its usefulness? OR is it an outdated, offensive vow that should be abolished? OR is it just fine the way it is?

.

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Stevicus

Stevicus

Veteran Member
Staff member
Premium Member
Skwim said:
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1954
(current version, per 4 U.S.C. §4)
"I pledge allegiance to the Flag of the United States of America, and to the Republic for which it stands, one Nation under God, indivisible, with liberty and justice for all."
​
.
Click to expand...

nu.jpg
 
Cooky

Cooky

Veteran Member
Skwim said:
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Sue Dremann of the Palo Alto Weekly notes that several local civic groups no longer say the Pledge of Allegiance because they realize it’s historically anti-immigrant,​
.
Click to expand...

...I think Sue has just lost all credibility, because it makes no sense to say the Pledge is "anti-immigrant".

It seems mostly useless to continue listening to her after that unfounded, biased remark.
 
PureX

PureX

Veteran Member
It's a silly pledge, created and exercised for sociopolitical reasons.

On the other hand, societies that don't actively try to hold together do tend to fall apart. I think I'd like to see a better version written, and validated. One that leaves out the trappings of state (flags) and religion, but focuses on our collective human well-being through national unity.
 
Skwim

Skwim

Veteran Member
Landon Caeli said:
...I think Sue has just lost all credibility, because it makes no sense to say the Pledge is "anti-immigrant".

It seems mostly useless to continue listening to her after that unfounded, biased remark.
Click to expand...
Gotta agree with you about the anti-immigrant part.

.
 
Cooky

Cooky

Veteran Member
columbus said:
We live in a Trump country.
Losing credibility isn't really a problem here. All that matters is how much money and power you can accumulate.
Tom
Click to expand...

I have no idea why credibility doesn't matter anymore. Or maybe it's the opposite -that people lack logic.

I change my position to choice B. That Sue Dremann lacks sound logic.
 
C

columbus

yawn <ignore> yawn
Landon Caeli said:
I have no idea why credibility doesn't matter anymore.
Click to expand...
Sure you do.

When Trump said he would release his tax returns before the election, did he do it? Do his supporters agree that he is a liar?

It's just another episode of religious/partisan people avoiding credibility in favor of money and power.
Tom
 
Cooky

Cooky

Veteran Member
columbus said:
Sure you do.

When Trump said he would release his tax returns before the election, did he do it? Do his supporters agree that he is a liar?

It's just another episode of religious/partisan people avoiding credibility in favor of money and power.
Tom
Click to expand...

Well, I know I wouldn't release my taxes. I owe close to $100,000 in back taxes.
 
Last edited by a moderator:
C

columbus

yawn <ignore> yawn
Landon Caeli said:
Well, I know I wouldn't release my taxes.
Click to expand...
I don't care. I wouldn't pay taxes if I could avoid it.
<I don't. to the extent that I can avoid paying Trump and Bush to subsidize their billionaire buddies>
But I can't afford the kind of lawyers who can lie for me, at $1000 an hour. I don't have huge media conglomerates like Fox lying for me. I have to deal with the real world, the country I live in. The laws we have.
I am not Trump, I can't lie and blame the media when things don't work out.
Tom
 
Cooky

Cooky

Veteran Member
columbus said:
How Christian.
"I said things I didn't mean."
Catholics don't usually use that excuse.

But Catholics are looking more and more like the protestants I learned about in the 60s.
Tom
Click to expand...

No, I just know some idiot would have accused me of breaking the law with what I said. Even though it's not.

...I don't need anymore points. CYOA.
 
C

columbus

yawn <ignore> yawn
Landon Caeli said:
No, I just know some idiot would have accused me of breaking the law with what I said. Even though it's not.

...I don't need anymore points.
Click to expand...
I'm pretty sure I know what idiot you are referring to.

But you did post what you posted.

I've got over 20 points. Not warnings, points. Add the warnings and I'm slightly worse than @Revoltingest. I think, can't be sure. I'm not sure what happened today.
:hugehug:
Tom
 
Revoltingest

Revoltingest

Pragmatic Libertarian
Premium Member
columbus said:
I'm pretty sure I know what idiot you are referring to.

But you did post what you posted.

I've got over 20 points. Not warnings, points. Add the warnings and I'm slightly worse than @Revoltingest. I think, can't be sure. I'm not sure what happened today.
:hugehug:
Tom
Click to expand...
I misbehave so badly here that I get warnings &
threats of banishment from people on other forums!
 
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