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In your understanding, What did Jesus mean by this?

syo

Well-Known Member
What is your understanding of this bible verse? (same verse from different translations)
Does it mean you find God within you? Or does it mean something else in your understanding?

Luke 17:21 King James Version (KJV)
21 Neither shall they say, Lo here! or, lo there! for, behold, the kingdom of God is within you.

Luke 17:21 New International Version (NIV)
21 nor will people say, ‘Here it is,’ or ‘There it is,’A) because the kingdom of God is in your midst
To understand this verse, one should define the 'kingdom of God'. The 'kingdom of God' is reality itself, so we all have reality inside us. Luke's verse is right. We are reality. :)
 

Good-Ole-Rebel

Well-Known Member
belief is not necessary to show a bible verse that explains god is not a man. that isn't my belief. thats what the bible verse states unequivocally and obviously it threatens you.

numbers 23:19

mark 10:18 shows where jesus makes a distinction between god being good and himself as being the creation of god and not necessarily being good, or god. i never stated god was separate from its being creation. you did.

deuteronomy 10:17 shows that God is above gods; which jesus did claim to be. jesus claimed to be one of the gods, children of god. I never stated god the Absolute was separate from it's being creation.

Doesn't threaten me. It doesn't say what you are trying to make it say.

No. (Mark 10:18) is Jesus declaring equality with God. I know. You said God and the creation are the same. And you try and use the Bible to prove it. But, you can't. God is separate from His creation.

(Deut. 10:17) Yes God is above all gods. Jesus never claimed to be a god. He did claim to be God, and equal with God. Yes, I know. You claim God and creation are one and the same. And you try and use the Bible to prove it. But, you can't. God is separate from His creation.

Good-Ole-Rebel
 

Fool

ALL in all
Premium Member
Doesn't threaten me. It doesn't say what you are trying to make it say.
i don't make it say anything but what it says.

No. (Mark 10:18) is Jesus declaring equality with God. I know. You said God and the creation are the same. And you try and use the Bible to prove it. But, you can't. God is separate from His creation.
jesus declared everyone was god when he quoted psalms 82:6 at John 10:34 but mark 10:18 says to call no man good. jesus referred to himself as the son of man, as ezekiel was too. he also implied all was christ in john 21:15. feed my "lambs"

(Deut. 10:17) Yes God is above all gods. Jesus never claimed to be a god.
again your lack of knowledge of the bible is telling. he claimed to be a god in

john 10:33-36


He did claim to be God, and equal with God. Yes, I know. You claim God and creation are one and the same. And you try and use the Bible to prove it. But, you can't. God is separate from His creation.

Good-Ole-Rebel
jesus was a creation of god, a begotten = created; so yes jesus is a fractal, image of god. And yes Jesus said I and the Father are ONE but god the Father is greater than jesus; so jesus and God aren't exactly equal. especially when jesus aligned his will to God's and not his own as we know he prayed. So being like minded doesn't necessarily make us equal in all ways; especially in size and power.


John 14:28



 
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Good-Ole-Rebel

Well-Known Member
i don't make it say anything but what it says.

jesus declared everyone was god when he quoted psalms 82:6 at John 10:34 but mark 10:18 says to call no man good. jesus referred to himself as the son of man, as ezekiel was too. he also implied all was christ in john 21:15. feed my "lambs"

again your lack of knowledge of the bible is telling. he claimed to be a god in

john 10:33-36


jesus was a creation of god, a begotten = created; so yes jesus is a fractal, image of god. And yes Jesus said I and the Father are ONE but god the Father is greater than jesus; so jesus and God aren't exactly equal. especially when jesus aligned his will to God's and not his own as we know he prayed. So being like minded doesn't necessarily make us equal in all ways; especially in size and power.


John 14:28

No He didn't. Jesus was speaking to the Jews who were representatives of God on the earth. He was not speaking to everyone.

No. (Mark 10:18) doesn't say that. As I have already said.

Jesus is the son of Man and the Son of God.

(John 21:15) doesn't imply all is in Christ. It simply said, 'feed my lambs'. So?

No, in (John 10:33-36) Jesus claimed to be the Son of God.

No. God the Son always existed with the Father. God the Son was given a body. We know Him as Jesus Christ. The Father is greater than the Son but both are God. Jesus aligned His will with the Father's will.

Good-Ole-Rebel
 

Fool

ALL in all
Premium Member
No He didn't. Jesus was speaking to the Jews who were representatives of God on the earth. He was not speaking to everyone.
actually he spoke to anyone who would listen. the samaritan woman at the well and the roman centurion were not jews.


No. (Mark 10:18) doesn't say that. As I have already said.
"you're saying so" doesn't negate what the bible verses states.

Jesus is the son of Man and the Son of God.
so is everyone else. big deal. God is the Father and Mother of all that is created, all offspring were created, fathered/mothered by god, isaiah 66:2.

no big deal. son of god was an idea that the jewish people understood too.

son of man is a jewish term denoting humanity as a whole.

you do believe everyone descended from adam don't you? adam literally means mankind, or man


(John 21:15) doesn't imply all is in Christ. It simply said, 'feed my lambs'. So?
that word, arnion, is only used in revelation and once in the gospel of john at verse 21:15. it's literally a simile for christ. in the case of john 21:15 its a reference to the plural, or christs.

you can see this same idea being understood at revelation 14:1 and the 144000 annointed ones, or christs. christ literally means anointed.



No, in (John 10:33-36) Jesus claimed to be the Son of God.
gods is not singular in either the psalm verse or jesus quoting. it's plural. he's claiming to be one of the elohim; elohim is a plural noun. plural means more than one.

o. God the Son always existed with the Father. God the Son was given a body. We know Him as Jesus Christ. The Father is greater than the Son but both are God. Jesus aligned His will with the Father's will.

Good-Ole-Rebel
God is the father of all creation. and yes all of creation was with god. you just contradicted yourself in that you're now saying the son has always existed with god. god and his offspring, creation are not separate.
 
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Good-Ole-Rebel

Well-Known Member
actually he spoke to anyone who would listen. the samaritan woman at the well and the roman centurion were not jews.


"you're saying so" doesn't negate what the bible verses states.

so is everyone else. big deal. God is the Father and Mother of all that is created, all offspring were created, fathered/mothered by god, isaiah 66:2.

no big deal. son of god was an idea that the jewish people understood too.

son of man is a jewish term denoting humanity as a whole.

you do believe everyone descended from adam don't you? adam literally means mankind, or man


that word, arnion, is only used in revelation and once in the gospel of john at verse 21:15. it's literally a simile for christ. in the case of john 21:15 its a reference to the plural, or christs.

you can see this same idea being understood at revelation 14:1 and the 144000 annointed ones, or christs. christ literally means anointed.



gods is not singular in either the psalm verse or jesus quoting. it's plural. he's claiming to be one of the elohim; elohim is a plural noun. plural means more than one.

God is the father of all creation. and yes all of creation was with god. you just contradicted yourself in that you're now saying the son has always existed with god. god and his offspring, creation are not separate.

Yes, but in (John 10:34) Jesus was speaking to the Jews.

(Mark 10:18) "And Jesus said unto him, Why callest thou me good? there is none good but one, that is, God." That is what it says.

No. Not everyone. Everyone has been created in the image of God as all descend from Adam. Only in that sense are they offspring. But not all are sons of God. (Is. 66:2) offers nothing to support your argument. Do you ever read the verses you use?

Jesus is not just 'a' son of God. He is 'The' Son of God. He is 'The' Son of Man. The God/Man.

No. In (John 21:15) the word 'lambs' is not a simile for Christ. It speaks to the people of Christ. It certainly doesn't speak to all of mankind. It only addresses those in Christ. Just like (21:16-17), "Feed my sheep".

(Rev. 14:1) adds nothing to your argument.

In (John 10:34-36), Jesus is calling the Jews 'god's'. Not Himself. He calls Himself the Son of God. "Say ye of him, whom the Father hath sanctified, and sent into the world, Thou blasphemest; because I said, I am the Son of God?"

God is the Creator. Separate from His creation. There is no contradiction in what I said. The Son was never created. He always existed with the Father as God the Son. A body was prepared for Him, and we know Him as Jesus Christ.

Good-Ole-Rebel
 

Fool

ALL in all
Premium Member
Yes, but in (John 10:34) Jesus was speaking to the Jews.

(Mark 10:18) "And Jesus said unto him, Why callest thou me good? there is none good but one, that is, God." That is what it says.

No. Not everyone. Everyone has been created in the image of God as all descend from Adam. Only in that sense are they offspring. But not all are sons of God. (Is. 66:2) offers nothing to support your argument. Do you ever read the verses you use?

Jesus is not just 'a' son of God. He is 'The' Son of God. He is 'The' Son of Man. The God/Man.

No. In (John 21:15) the word 'lambs' is not a simile for Christ. It speaks to the people of Christ. It certainly doesn't speak to all of mankind. It only addresses those in Christ. Just like (21:16-17), "Feed my sheep".

(Rev. 14:1) adds nothing to your argument.

In (John 10:34-36), Jesus is calling the Jews 'god's'. Not Himself. He calls Himself the Son of God. "Say ye of him, whom the Father hath sanctified, and sent into the world, Thou blasphemest; because I said, I am the Son of God?"

God is the Creator. Separate from His creation. There is no contradiction in what I said. The Son was never created. He always existed with the Father as God the Son. A body was prepared for Him, and we know Him as Jesus Christ.

Good-Ole-Rebel
this discussion has been a prime example of dualistic thinking in a proclaimed monotheistic religion.

jesus didn't make a difference between a jew and non-jew, nor did he claim to be anything greater/lesser than another of god's children.

dualistic thinking is the epitome of idolatry.


Luke 11:34
The light of the body is the eye: therefore when thine eye is single, thy whole body also is full of light; but when thine eye is evil, thy body also is full of darkness.
 
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Good-Ole-Rebel

Well-Known Member
this discussion has been a prime example of dualistic thinking in a proclaimed monotheistic religion.

jesus didn't make a difference between a jew and non-jew, nor did he claim to be anything greater/lesser than another of god's children.

dualistic thinking is the epitome of idolatry.


Luke 11:34
The light of the body is the eye: therefore when thine eye is single, thy whole body also is full of light; but when thine eye is evil, thy body also is full of darkness.

Concerning the Samaritan woman, which you alluded to earlier, Jesus said to her, (John 4:22) "Ye worship ye know not what: we know what we worship: for salvation is of the Jews."

Concerning the Syrophoenician woman Jesus said, (Matt. 15:26-26), "Then came she and worshipped him, saying, Lord, help me. But he answered and said, It is not meet to take the children's bread and to cast it to dogs."

When Jesus sent his disciples out to preach the Gospel of the Kingdom, he said, (Matt. 10:5) "These twelve Jesus sent forth, and commanded them, saying, God not into the way of the Gentiles, and into any city of the Samaritans enter ye not:".

Jesus made quite a distinction between those who were Jews and those who were not.

As for Jesus not claiming to be the Son of God, I already showed you where He did. (John 10:36) Here is another. (Matt. 16:16-17) "And Simon Peter answered and said, Thou art the Christ, the Son of the living God. And Jesus answered and said unto him, Blessed art thou, Simon Bar jona: for flesh and blood hath not revealed it unto thee, but my Father which is in heaven."


Good-Ole-Rebel
 

Fool

ALL in all
Premium Member
Concerning the Samaritan woman, which you alluded to earlier, Jesus said to her, (John 4:22) "Ye worship ye know not what: we know what we worship: for salvation is of the Jews."

might want to especially pay attention to verse 17


deuteronomy 10:12-17

romans 2:28-29

and he gave her what she asked for after telling her that he could. the jews did not believe in idolizing the messiah. jesus never promoted that. he was against idolatry.

Concerning the Syrophoenician woman Jesus said, (Matt. 15:26-26), "Then came she and worshipped him, saying, Lord, help me. But he answered and said, It is not meet to take the children's bread and to cast it to dogs."
and he gave her what she asked for. he would have been a hypocrite; if he hadn't. the commandment to love your neighbor doesn't qualify it with some ethnicity vs some other.

When Jesus sent his disciples out to preach the Gospel of the Kingdom, he said, (Matt. 10:5) "These twelve Jesus sent forth, and commanded them, saying, God not into the way of the Gentiles, and into any city of the Samaritans enter ye not:".

okay but he qualifies that statement with the lost sheep of israel; which he sent them to first..unfortunately for some, they rejected his teaching. then later he sends them out into all the world. how do you suppose thomas ended up in india?

Saint Thomas Christians - Wikipedia

Jesus made quite a distinction between those who were Jews and those who were not.

deuteronomy 10:12-17

romans 2:28-29

he would have broken the law; if he had. the law is very simple and to the point. charity begins at home but it does not end there.

As for Jesus not claiming to be the Son of God, I already showed you where He did. (John 10:36) Here is another. (Matt. 16:16-17) "And Simon Peter answered and said, Thou art the Christ, the Son of the living God. And Jesus answered and said unto him, Blessed art thou, Simon Bar jona: for flesh and blood hath not revealed it unto thee, but my Father which is in heaven."

you're confused, extremely confused. i never in any of my posts claimed that jesus wasn't a son of god, or son of man. i claimed everyone was.

everyone and everything created is the son of god through the spirit. in the OT there is a reference to the sons of god. everyone that is human is a son of man.

not everyone recognizes that. but also it is the job of the messiah to perpetuate that role of messiah and not to create a hierarchy. this is why it is written in revelation 14:1 having the Father's name in their foreheads, or annointed with the name.

they were baptized in to that name of names, or the HaShem


SON OF GOD - JewishEncyclopedia.com

son of god
Term applied to an angel or demigod, one of the mythological beings whose exploits are described in Gen. vi. 2-4, and whose ill conduct was among the causes of the Flood; to a judge or ruler (Ps. lxxxii. 6, "children of the Most High"; in many passages "gods" and "judges" seem to be equations; comp. Ex. xxi. 6 [R. V., margin] and xxii. 8, 9); and to the real or ideal king over Israel (II Sam. vii. 14, with reference to David and his dynasty; comp. Ps. lxxxix. 27, 28). "Sons of God" and "children of God" are applied also to Israel as a people (comp. Ex. iv. 22 and Hos. xi. 1) and to all members of the human race.
 
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Good-Ole-Rebel

Well-Known Member
might want to especially pay attention to verse 17


deuteronomy 10:12-17

romans 2:28-29

and he gave her what she asked for after telling her that he could. the jews did not believe in idolizing the messiah. jesus never promoted that. he was against idolatry.

and he gave her what she asked for. he would have been a hypocrite; if he hadn't. the commandment to love your neighbor doesn't qualify it with some ethnicity vs some other.



okay but he qualifies that statement with the lost sheep of israel; which he sent them to first..unfortunately for some, they rejected his teaching. then later he sends them out into all the world. how do you suppose thomas ended up in india?

Saint Thomas Christians - Wikipedia



deuteronomy 10:12-17

romans 2:28-29

he would have broken the law; if he had. the law is very simple and to the point. charity begins at home but it does not end there.



you're confused, extremely confused. i never in any of my posts claimed that jesus wasn't a son of god, or son of man. i claimed everyone was.

everyone and everything created is the son of god through the spirit. in the OT there is a reference to the sons of god. everyone that is human is a son of man.

not everyone recognizes that. but also it is the job of the messiah to perpetuate that role of messiah and not to create a hierarchy. this is why it is written in revelation 14:1 having the Father's name in their foreheads, or annointed with the name.

they were baptized in to that name of names, or the HaShem


SON OF GOD - JewishEncyclopedia.com

son of god
Term applied to an angel or demigod, one of the mythological beings whose exploits are described in Gen. vi. 2-4, and whose ill conduct was among the causes of the Flood; to a judge or ruler (Ps. lxxxii. 6, "children of the Most High"; in many passages "gods" and "judges" seem to be equations; comp. Ex. xxi. 6 [R. V., margin] and xxii. 8, 9); and to the real or ideal king over Israel (II Sam. vii. 14, with reference to David and his dynasty; comp. Ps. lxxxix. 27, 28). "Sons of God" and "children of God" are applied also to Israel as a people (comp. Ex. iv. 22 and Hos. xi. 1) and to all members of the human race.

Might remember what you said in post #(129). You said Jesus made no difference between the Jew and non-Jew. The verses I gave prove you wrong....again.

You are very ignorant of the Bible. Even the verses you use go against you. Here is (Deut. 10:15) "Only the LORD had a delight in thy fathers to love them, and he chose their seed after them, even you above all people. as it is this day." Jesus in recognizing that Jews were distinct from any other people was obeying the Law.

Yes, I know what you claimed. But the Bible is against what you claim. Jesus is not a son of god. He is The Son of God and The Son of Man.

Concerning the Bible, you are a waste of time.

Good-Ole-Rebel
 

Fool

ALL in all
Premium Member
Might remember what you said in post #(129). You said Jesus made no difference between the Jew and non-Jew. The verses I gave prove you wrong....again.
then why did he give non-jews what they asked for? it doesn't matter what someone says. it matters what they do.

You are very ignorant of the Bible. Even the verses you use go against you. Here is (Deut. 10:15) "Only the LORD had a delight in thy fathers to love them, and he chose their seed after them, even you above all people. as it is this day." Jesus in recognizing that Jews were distinct from any other people was obeying the Law.

Yes, I know what you claimed. But the Bible is against what you claim. Jesus is not a son of god. He is The Son of God and The Son of Man.

Concerning the Bible, you are a waste of time.

Good-Ole-Rebel
a jew isn't based on physical lineage. it was based on a spiritual

case in point

revelation 2:9

revelation 3:9


i showed you multiple instances of where sons of god are mentioned. even children of god are mentioned. doesn't matter if you capitalize something or not. they mean the same thing.


Matthew 5:9

Luke 20:36

John 11:52

Romans 8:16

Romans 8:21

Romans 9:8

1 John 3:10

1 John 5:2
 

Good-Ole-Rebel

Well-Known Member
then why did he give non-jews what they asked for? it doesn't matter what someone says. it matters what they do.

a jew isn't based on physical lineage. it was based on a spiritual

case in point

revelation 2:9

revelation 3:9


i showed you multiple instances of where sons of god are mentioned. even children of god are mentioned. doesn't matter if you capitalize something or not. they mean the same thing.


Matthew 5:9

Luke 20:36

John 11:52

Romans 8:16

Romans 8:21

Romans 9:8

1 John 3:10

1 John 5:2

That Jesus gave them what they asked for is not the point. That He made distinction between the Jew and Gentile is. The verses I gave were clear. You just don't know what you are talking about.

A Jew is based upon both physical and spiritual lineage.

So, sons of God are spoken of. Children of God are spoken of. Big deal. Jesus claimed to be The Son of God.

I am not going to chase every Scripture you give as I have already seen that most of the time they don't even address the subject matter. If you have one that you think proves your point, by all means show me how it does.

The point of this discussion is that God is separate from His creation. He is not the creation. You want to use the Bible to say He is the creation and is not a 'personal God'. But you haven't been able to do it, and can't do it, because the Bible doesn't teach that.

Good-Ole-Rebel
 

Fool

ALL in all
Premium Member
That Jesus gave them what they asked for is not the point. That He made distinction between the Jew and Gentile is. The verses I gave were clear. You just don't know what you are talking about.

A Jew is based upon both physical and spiritual lineage.

So, sons of God are spoken of. Children of God are spoken of. Big deal. Jesus claimed to be The Son of God.

I am not going to chase every Scripture you give as I have already seen that most of the time they don't even address the subject matter. If you have one that you think proves your point, by all means show me how it does.

The point of this discussion is that God is separate from His creation. He is not the creation. You want to use the Bible to say He is the creation and is not a 'personal God'. But you haven't been able to do it, and can't do it, because the Bible doesn't teach that.

Good-Ole-Rebel

Matthew 21:28-32

The Bible doesn't make a claim that God is panentheistic. The father and the son are one. Or the Creator and the creation are one.

Numbers 15:15-16
 
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Good-Ole-Rebel

Well-Known Member
Matthew 21:28-32

The Bible doesn't make a claim that God is panentheistic. The father and the son are one. Or the Creator and the creation are one.

Numbers 15:15-16

Your verses do not support your claim, as usual. Father, Son, Holy Spirit are One God, but three Persons. The Creator is separate from His creation.

Good-Ole-Rebel
 

Fool

ALL in all
Premium Member
Your verses do not support your claim, as usual. Father, Son, Holy Spirit are One God, but three Persons. The Creator is separate from His creation.

Good-Ole-Rebel
you've consistently offered no third party, or even biblical proof.


isn't it interesting how the truth destroys the treasure of the sleeping believer? you don't suppose the pharisees had their treasures that they maintained?


fleeced lycos
 
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Hermit

Member
It means to me that there's little point in trying to "prove God" to others because God's kingdom isn't something in the outside world to point to. God's kingdom emerges within you. The Holy Spirit comes to live inside you and it's like a light making things visible that before you couldn't see. Another aspect of this would be physical and mental health. If we eat a lot of junk food, don't exercise, or if we get lost in negative mindsets and excessive worrying, than God's kingdom or temple, our bodies, are polluted, and it blocks or minimizes God's ability to commune with us.
 

Good-Ole-Rebel

Well-Known Member
you've consistently offered no third party, or even biblical proof.


isn't it interesting how the truth destroys the treasure of the sleeping believer? you don't suppose the pharisees had their treasures that they maintained?


fleeced lycos

I have offered Biblical proof. The so called Biblical proof you offer is empty and void.

God created the heavens and the earth. (Gen. 1:1) Thus God is separate from His creation. You stumble at the threshold.

Good-Ole-Rebel
 

Fool

ALL in all
Premium Member
I have offered Biblical proof. The so called Biblical proof you offer is empty and void.

God created the heavens and the earth. (Gen. 1:1) Thus God is separate from His creation. You stumble at the threshold.

Good-Ole-Rebel

And no where in that verse does it say that heaven and Earth are separate, outside, without God. But you "believe" it does.
 
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