What will the Second Coming of Christ look like?

CG Didymus · Nov 15, 2019

loverofhumanity said:
A supreme proof is the teaching. For instance the precepts of Christ were sufficient proof of his validity. There is no greater proof than these teachings. They were the light of that cycle and the spirit of that age. All that he said accorded with the needs of the humanity of that time. They were peerless and unique.(Divine Philosophy)

I get the feeling that what a Christian would say is different than what a Baha'i would say. So... what do Baha'is say are those "precepts" of Christ? How were those teachings the "light" of that cycle? How did what he say meet the needs of humanity at that time? How were they "peerless" and "unique"?

CG Didymus · Nov 15, 2019

Muffled said:
I believe those who say that have misjudged what they have seen if they have seen anything like it.

How did we miss all the catastrophes and beasts and dragons and a third of humanity getting killed, things so bad that people will want to die, the battle of Armageddon and all the rest? And, along the way, if Baha'is are right, Muhammad came as a "Christ" or "anointed one" and Christians missed him and the Baha'i prophets, that had little to do with Jerusalem, the Mt. of Olives. What to happened every eye shall see him? Earthquakes? Signs in the sky? Casting Satan and his demons into a bottomless pit? Did the Second Coming really already happen more than 150 years ago?

loverofhumanity · Nov 15, 2019

CG Didymus said:
I get the feeling that what a Christian would say is different than what a Baha'i would say. So... what do Baha'is say are those "precepts" of Christ? How were those teachings the "light" of that cycle? How did what he say meet the needs of humanity at that time? How were they "peerless" and "unique"?

When the sun of the former religion became spiritually darkened then Jesus appeared to renew the spiritual laws. The sermon on the mount as well as His Life was an example to all mankind. The Gospels contain all this information it is too extensive to quote all here. But basically He undertook to renew the morals and spirituality of the Jews and the entire world. You can read these things in many books.

“in the time of Christ the general morals and manners of the Israelites had become entirely confused and corrupted, and Israel had fallen into a state of utmost degradation, misery, and bondage”

“He undertook to rehabilitate the fortunes of the entire human race—and spread abroad teachings that were not reserved for Israel alone but formed the basis for the universal happiness of human society.”

Some Answered Questions
‘

CG Didymus · Nov 16, 2019

loverofhumanity said:
When the sun of the former religion became spiritually darkened then Jesus appeared to renew the spiritual laws. The sermon on the mount as well as His Life was an example to all mankind. The Gospels contain all this information it is too extensive to quote all here. But basically He undertook to renew the morals and spirituality of the Jews and the entire world. You can read these things in many books.

“in the time of Christ the general morals and manners of the Israelites had become entirely confused and corrupted, and Israel had fallen into a state of utmost degradation, misery, and bondage”

“He undertook to rehabilitate the fortunes of the entire human race—and spread abroad teachings that were not reserved for Israel alone but formed the basis for the universal happiness of human society.”

Some Answered Questions
‘

First of all... the "sun" of the former religion? What was the former religion to Judaism that the teachings of Moses replaced?
Then this was the claim... "A supreme proof is the teaching. For instance the precepts of Christ were sufficient proof of his validity. There is no greater proof than these teachings. They were the light of that cycle and the spirit of that age. All that he said accorded with the needs of the humanity of that time. They were peerless and unique.(Divine Philosophy)"

Just give me a couple of "peerless" and "unique" precepts that proved the validity of Jesus? Just a couple of teachings that became the "light" and "spirit" of that age?

From your quote, Jesus undertook to renew the morals and spirituality of the entire world? To rehabilitate the fortunes of the entire human race? Spread teachings that formed the basis for universal happiness of human society? They never taught me that in Church. All this time I thought Jesus came to save sinners from hell. You are right the Christians mangled the "true" interpretation of the teachings of Jesus. So much so that the people of the world didn't get better morals and never got much universal happiness from the teachings of Jesus. So Jesus was failed to accomplish his mission? He just put it out their for people to love one another and turn the other cheek and left them to distort, ignore, and change what he was sent to do?

Saint Frankenstein · Nov 16, 2019

loverofhumanity said:
What are your thoughts? Will it be a magical event with angels in the sky with Christ riding on the clouds with all true believers being taken up to heaven and people rising from their graves?

Are the signs of the Second Coming literal or figurative?

And as no one has ever seen Jesus how will anyone know it is Him or not? Is it at all possible that His Coming could have be missed as Christ said to watch and pray and that He would come like a thief in the night. What would He steal?

Do you think the traditional literal interpretations are correct and why or why not?

I believe it will be beyond our mind's understanding but we will all know. No, I don't take the imagery of people coming from the sky as literal. That's silly to me.

And we're supposed to watch and pray so that we will be ready for it.

loverofhumanity · Nov 16, 2019

CG Didymus said:
First of all... the "sun" of the former religion? What was the former religion to Judaism that the teachings of Moses replaced?
Then this was the claim... "A supreme proof is the teaching. For instance the precepts of Christ were sufficient proof of his validity. There is no greater proof than these teachings. They were the light of that cycle and the spirit of that age. All that he said accorded with the needs of the humanity of that time. They were peerless and unique.(Divine Philosophy)"

Just give me a couple of "peerless" and "unique" precepts that proved the validity of Jesus? Just a couple of teachings that became the "light" and "spirit" of that age?

From your quote, Jesus undertook to renew the morals and spirituality of the entire world? To rehabilitate the fortunes of the entire human race? Spread teachings that formed the basis for universal happiness of human society? They never taught me that in Church. All this time I thought Jesus came to save sinners from hell. You are right the Christians mangled the "true" interpretation of the teachings of Jesus. So much so that the people of the world didn't get better morals and never got much universal happiness from the teachings of Jesus. So Jesus was failed to accomplish his mission? He just put it out their for people to love one another and turn the other cheek and left them to distort, ignore, and change what he was sent to do?

Christians established orphanages, charities for the poor and homeless, hospitals and schools and organisations like the Red Cross and Salvation Army and many humanitarian organisations.

Here is a list of some of the ethics and morals Christ taught. These things are freely available on the internet so you can verify them yourself. There is overwhelming evidence of how Christ’s teachings renewed society and created a better world. The ‘suns’ of all religions rise and set so there comes a time they become no longer relevant and fall into disunity. Then a new sun rises with the dawn of a new day and a new Manifestation.
https://www.biblegateway.com/passage/?search=Matthew+5-7&version=NIV
Bible Gateway passage: Matthew 5-7 - New International Version

I was taught all these things in church. Any or all of these teachings renewed the spirit of the age.

In the 5th century, Saint Augustine began his book Our Lord's Sermon on the Mount by stating:

If any one will piously and soberly consider the sermon which our Lord Jesus Christ spoke on the mount, as we read it in the Gospel according to Matthew, I think that he will find in it, so far as regards the highest morals, a perfect standard of the Christian life.

Some more from wiki.

Role of Christianity in civilization - Wikipedia

The Bible and Christian theology have also strongly influenced Western philosophers and political activists. The teachings of Jesus, such as the Parable of the Good Samaritan, are among the important sources for modern notions of Human Rights and the welfare measures commonly provided by governments in the West. Long held Christian teachings on sexuality and marriage and family life have also been both influential and, in recent times, controversial. Christianity played a role in ending practices such as human sacrifice,[6] infanticide and polygamy.[7] Christianity in general affected the status of women by condemning marital infidelity, divorce, incest, polygamy, birth control, infanticide (female infants were more likely to be killed), and abortion.[8] While official Church teaching[9] considers women and men to be complementary (equal and different), some modern "advocates of ordination of women and other feminists" argue that teachings attributed to St. Paul and those of the Fathers of the Church and Scholastic theologians advanced the notion of a divinely ordained female inferiority.[10] Nevertheless, women have played prominent roles in Western history through and as part of the church, particularly in education and healthcare, but also as influential theologians and mystics.

CG Didymus · Nov 16, 2019

loverofhumanity said:
Christians established orphanages, charities for the poor and homeless, hospitals and schools and organisations like the Red Cross and Salvation Army and many humanitarian organisations.

Here is a list of some of the ethics and morals Christ taught. These things are freely available on the internet so you can verify them yourself. There is overwhelming evidence of how Christ’s teachings renewed society and created a better world. The ‘suns’ of all religions rise and set so there comes a time they become no longer relevant and fall into disunity. Then a new sun rises with the dawn of a new day and a new Manifestation.
Bible Gateway passage: Matthew 5-7 - New International Version

I was taught all these things in church. Any or all of these teachings renewed the spirit of the age.

In the 5th century, Saint Augustine began his book Our Lord's Sermon on the Mount by stating:

If any one will piously and soberly consider the sermon which our Lord Jesus Christ spoke on the mount, as we read it in the Gospel according to Matthew, I think that he will find in it, so far as regards the highest morals, a perfect standard of the Christian life.

Some more from wiki.

Role of Christianity in civilization - Wikipedia

The Bible and Christian theology have also strongly influenced Western philosophers and political activists. The teachings of Jesus, such as the Parable of the Good Samaritan, are among the important sources for modern notions of Human Rights and the welfare measures commonly provided by governments in the West. Long held Christian teachings on sexuality and marriage and family life have also been both influential and, in recent times, controversial. Christianity played a role in ending practices such as human sacrifice,[6] infanticide and polygamy.[7] Christianity in general affected the status of women by condemning marital infidelity, divorce, incest, polygamy, birth control, infanticide (female infants were more likely to be killed), and abortion.[8] While official Church teaching[9] considers women and men to be complementary (equal and different), some modern "advocates of ordination of women and other feminists" argue that teachings attributed to St. Paul and those of the Fathers of the Church and Scholastic theologians advanced the notion of a divinely ordained female inferiority.[10] Nevertheless, women have played prominent roles in Western history through and as part of the church, particularly in education and healthcare, but also as influential theologians and mystics.

"There is no greater proof than these teachings." So the Sermon on the Mount and the parable of the Good Samaritan are proof that Jesus was from God? Not the alleged miracles? Not rising from the dead? Not the supposed Virgin Birth? Not the voice of God from heaven saying that Jesus was his beloved Son? Not the Holy Spirit descending on him? So Christians are way off by thinking Jesus came to pay the penalty for sin. That sin entered the world through Adam and Eve's disobedience?

But, Baha'is say the NT and the Bible are not totally authentic. And with Jesus, these teachings are told to us by his followers. Followers that told of demons and of Jesus walking on water. Can they be trusted? Or, there is some good basic spiritual and moral teachings there, and the Baha'is support Christians believing in those things. But, say they are wrong about taking the stories about Jesus' life too literal? And, by taking the prophecies about his Second Coming too literal? So we don't know what the Second Coming will look like, because what the NT says isn't what is really going to happen. It has to be seen with "spiritual" eyes. And the Baha'is are they only ones that know the true interpretations of the prophecies and events told about in the NT?

loverofhumanity · Nov 16, 2019

Saint Frankenstein said:
I believe it will be beyond our mind's understanding but we will all know. No, I don't take the imagery of people coming from the sky as literal. That's silly to me.

And we're supposed to watch and pray so that we will be ready for it.

Thanks for your enlightening posts. I think the Pharisees and Sadducees reaction to Jesus by relying on their learning was a chilling warning that reliance on scriptural knowledge is not the qualification to be able to ‘see God’ for the disciples were unlearned yet recognised, believed in and accepted Jesus.

A clue I found is when Christ said ‘blessed are the pure in heart for they shall see God’.

The danger I feel is that the theological world like that of the Jews have already determined how Jesus will and will not come in their minds and are thus not really watching and praying but relying too much in their own expectations and preconceived ideas like the Jewish High priests.

Here are some of the things Christ has said in Matthew ch 24.

Therefore be ye also ready: for in such an hour as ye think not the Son of man cometh.

And He continues

But and if that evil servant shall say in his heart, My lord delayeth his coming; And shall begin to smite his fellowservants, and to eat and drink with the drunken; The lord of that servant shall come in a day when he looketh not for him, and in an hour that he is not aware of, And shall cut him asunder, and appoint him his portion with the hypocrites: there shall be weeping and gnashing of teeth.

For a long time now the churches have ‘ delayed His Coming’. 50 years ago I was told He’s coming soon and now half a century later and it’s still ‘soon but not yet’. 2,000 years have passed since Christ appeared and still His coming is ‘delayed’!,!

This ‘delaying’ is all based upon theological learning like the Jews and they missed Christ when He came the first time and had Him crucified? Could they have repeated the same mistake the Pharisees made with regards to the Second Coming? I think it’s very likely they did.

loverofhumanity · Nov 16, 2019

CG Didymus said:
"There is no greater proof than these teachings." So the Sermon on the Mount and the parable of the Good Samaritan are proof that Jesus was from God? Not the alleged miracles? Not rising from the dead? Not the supposed Virgin Birth? Not the voice of God from heaven saying that Jesus was his beloved Son? Not the Holy Spirit descending on him? So Christians are way off by thinking Jesus came to pay the penalty for sin. That sin entered the world through Adam and Eve's disobedience?

But, Baha'is say the NT and the Bible are not totally authentic. And with Jesus, these teachings are told to us by his followers. Followers that told of demons and of Jesus walking on water. Can they be trusted? Or, there is some good basic spiritual and moral teachings there, and the Baha'is support Christians believing in those things. But, say they are wrong about taking the stories about Jesus' life too literal? And, by taking the prophecies about his Second Coming too literal? So we don't know what the Second Coming will look like, because what the NT says isn't what is really going to happen. It has to be seen with "spiritual" eyes. And the Baha'is are they only ones that know the true interpretations of the prophecies and events told about in the NT?

No doubt Jesus performed miracles but they were only proof for those who were present. And bring a person back from physical death only to die again is not really an advantage but giving one eternal life when one was spiritually dead is a blessing that lasts forever.

When we examine Christ’s Words like ‘let the dead bury the dead’ we can see that He often spoke in parables and metaphors and He said as much Himself.

John 16:25

These things have I spoken unto you in proverbs: but the time cometh, when I shall no more speak unto you in proverbs, but I shall shew you plainly of the Father.

Christ referred to the Father in the future speaking directly and clearly.

No man in heaven or earth, religionist or scientist of whichever religion can unseal the true meanings.

Revelation 5:1-5

And I saw in the right hand of him that sat on the throne a book written within and on the backside, sealed with seven seals. And I saw a strong angel proclaiming with a loud voice, Who is worthy to open the book, and to loose the seals thereof? And no man in heaven, nor in earth, neither under the earth, was able to open the book, neither to look thereon.
And I wept much, because no man was found worthy to open and to read the book, neither to look thereon. And one of the elders saith unto me, Weep not: behold, the Lion of the tribe of Juda, the Root of David, hath prevailed to open the book, and to loose the seven seals thereof.

Daniel 12:9

And he said, Go thy way, Daniel: for the words are closed up and sealed till the time of the end.

So until the Promised One appears, the true interpretation of the meanings of the Bible are sealed and all other interpretations are basically guesses and according to Revelation no earthly or heavenly man is able to unravel and unseal the Books, except Him

We believe that it was Baha’u’llah Who was the One Who unsealed thenBooks referred to in Daniel and Revelation with His Book of Certitude.

“Revealed on the eve of the declaration of His Mission, it proffered to mankind the ‘Choice Sealed Wine, whose seal is of musk,’ and broke the ‘seals’ of the ‘Book’ referred to by Daniel.” (Shoghi Effendi)

So the only One Who could unseal the Books was the Promised One and we Baha’is get our interpretation of the Bible from Him and Books like the Book of Certitude.not ourselves. Of ourselves we are not interpreters. Only Baha’u’llah and His appointed interpreters are valid interpretations for us. Not individual Baha’is.

MonkeyFire · Nov 16, 2019

Everyone will be happy, and there will be light in the air and it will illuminate.

Milton Platt · Nov 16, 2019

The Anointed said:
So say the atheists who haunt the religious forums of the world in their attempt to convert a believer over to their godless and hopeless belief, which is, that the return of the physical body to the universal elements from which it was created, is the death of the spirit/mind that had developed within that physical womb.

This body that you see, it isn't really me
It's but the womb in which I'm being formed
For I am spirit, I am mind, and it's the only place you'll find
WHO I AM, until the day I'm finally born.
For I will not be free until this body that you see
Has returned to the dust from which it came
It's then that I'll be born from this womb in which I'm formed
To carry on in life's eternal game...…..The Anointed

Atheism is fundamentally a lack of belief in the various god propositions, NOT a belief. Most are perfectly willing to accept the validity of any one of the gods as soon as sufficient quality evidence is produced to support that particular god.

I does little good to have hope in a belief not based on fact,

CG Didymus · Nov 17, 2019

loverofhumanity said:
No doubt Jesus performed miracles but they were only proof for those who were present. And bring a person back from physical death only to die again is not really an advantage but giving one eternal life when one was spiritually dead is a blessing that lasts forever.

Yes, that's the Baha'i view. But "Bible-believing" Christians, meaning those that take it literal, are proof for Christians today. They are proof to them that Jesus was divine. He had the power to do things in the physical world, allegedly, that a mere mortal could not do. But... did those miracles really happen? Many Baha'is have given "symbolic" interpretations of the miracles in place of a real physical miracle to have taken place. The biggest one is the resurrection of Jesus himself. Baha'is deny it happened. Which is fine. Many people deny that it really happened. But they don't go around saying that they believe the Bible is the Word of God.

loverofhumanity said:
He often spoke in parables and metaphors

He spoke in parables, but did the gospel writers? Some Baha'is have tried to include things they wrote about Jesus to be like a parable. Like, again, the resurrection. If it didn't happen, then Baha'i, in essence, are saying that the writers are telling lies. But Baha'is try to say that those stories were figurative and never meant to be taken literally. So Jesus never rose from the dead. That was symbolic. He didn't walk on water. That was just a story. What do you as a Baha'i believe? Do you agree with what some Baha'is have said here on the forum?

loverofhumanity said:
No man in heaven or earth, religionist or scientist of whichever religion can unseal the true meanings.

Rev 22:10: Then he told me, "Do not seal up the words of the prophecy of this scroll, because the time is near.

Sure in Daniel it says to seal it up. But that is in Daniel. Why would it go beyond that book to include the whole of the Bible? And like Revelation says, it doesn't include the whole Bible.

CG Didymus · Nov 17, 2019

loverofhumanity said:
A supreme proof is the teaching. For instance the precepts of Christ were sufficient proof of his validity. There is no greater proof than these teachings. They were the light of that cycle and the spirit of that age. All that he said accorded with the needs of the humanity of that time. They were peerless and unique.(Divine Philosophy)

Beyond the relatively great teachings of the Baha'i Faith, Baha'is do try and use prophecies to show that The Bab and Baha'u'llah are who they say they are. Some prophecies work fairly well, others don't. The best one is the "1260" day one. But to use it six times for different people doing different things? One prophecy does not fit all. Or, I should say, six different prophecies about different things can't all be forced to mean the same duration of time... the 1260 lunar years between 621 and 1844.

But, there's other prophecies. This thread is about what the Second Coming will look like. And people have pointed to how the world is still a mess. So, a related question would be... What would the post Second Coming world look like?

The world after Jesus was still a mess, so Jews were not convinced that Jesus was the Messiah. Muhammad? Same thing. The Bab? Same thing. Why he even needs to be a manifestation, I don't know. Why couldn't Baha'is be happy with saying that he was Elijah, the forerunner to the manifestation? But then we get the man who claim to be the "Great One", the Return of Christ. The Lord of Lords and Prince of Peace. Yet, we have no peace.

So which prophecies say that when the Messiah does come, the world will still be a mess and disasters will still be happening? Are the prophecies that make it sound that evil will be done away with misleading? Are we taking them too literal when we should have been seeing them with "spiritual" eyes and know that they were only "symbolic"? Is there a prophecy that says the new golden age of peace will be a long process? And how long? Don't Baha'is expect a great upheaval that will cause the people of the world to turn to the Baha'is to bring order to the chaos? But then, so does Christianity. there will be wars and rumors of wars, but that is not yet the end. An upheaval would still fit what Christians are saying. So who's right?

loverofhumanity · Nov 17, 2019

CG Didymus said:
Yes, that's the Baha'i view. But "Bible-believing" Christians, meaning those that take it literal, are proof for Christians today. They are proof to them that Jesus was divine. He had the power to do things in the physical world, allegedly, that a mere mortal could not do. But... did those miracles really happen? Many Baha'is have given "symbolic" interpretations of the miracles in place of a real physical miracle to have taken place. The biggest one is the resurrection of Jesus himself. Baha'is deny it happened. Which is fine. Many people deny that it really happened. But they don't go around saying that they believe the Bible is the Word of God.

He spoke in parables, but did the gospel writers? Some Baha'is have tried to include things they wrote about Jesus to be like a parable. Like, again, the resurrection. If it didn't happen, then Baha'i, in essence, are saying that the writers are telling lies. But Baha'is try to say that those stories were figurative and never meant to be taken literally. So Jesus never rose from the dead. That was symbolic. He didn't walk on water. That was just a story. What do you as a Baha'i believe? Do you agree with what some Baha'is have said here on the forum?

Rev 22:10: Then he told me, "Do not seal up the words of the prophecy of this scroll, because the time is near.

Sure in Daniel it says to seal it up. But that is in Daniel. Why would it go beyond that book to include the whole of the Bible? And like Revelation says, it doesn't include the whole Bible.

For me I have no problem believing that Jesus is my Lord and Saviour and the Bible is the Word of God.

But for interpretation of the Bible and Holy Books of all religions I turn to Baha’u’llah Who I believe is Christ returned in the Glory of the Father.

loverofhumanity · Nov 17, 2019

CG Didymus said:
Beyond the relatively great teachings of the Baha'i Faith, Baha'is do try and use prophecies to show that The Bab and Baha'u'llah are who they say they are. Some prophecies work fairly well, others don't. The best one is the "1260" day one. But to use it six times for different people doing different things? One prophecy does not fit all. Or, I should say, six different prophecies about different things can't all be forced to mean the same duration of time... the 1260 lunar years between 621 and 1844.

But, there's other prophecies. This thread is about what the Second Coming will look like. And people have pointed to how the world is still a mess. So, a related question would be... What would the post Second Coming world look like?

The world after Jesus was still a mess, so Jews were not convinced that Jesus was the Messiah. Muhammad? Same thing. The Bab? Same thing. Why he even needs to be a manifestation, I don't know. Why couldn't Baha'is be happy with saying that he was Elijah, the forerunner to the manifestation? But then we get the man who claim to be the "Great One", the Return of Christ. The Lord of Lords and Prince of Peace. Yet, we have no peace.

So which prophecies say that when the Messiah does come, the world will still be a mess and disasters will still be happening? Are the prophecies that make it sound that evil will be done away with misleading? Are we taking them too literal when we should have been seeing them with "spiritual" eyes and know that they were only "symbolic"? Is there a prophecy that says the new golden age of peace will be a long process? And how long? Don't Baha'is expect a great upheaval that will cause the people of the world to turn to the Baha'is to bring order to the chaos? But then, so does Christianity. there will be wars and rumors of wars, but that is not yet the end. An upheaval would still fit what Christians are saying. So who's right?

Many of the prophecies are written in a very dramatic and alarming manner you know that a day in prophecy is as a year but that a day of God is a thousand years so with that understanding we can confirm that some prophecies have been fulfilled but as the day of God is as a 1,000 years then this indicates ‘process ‘ as opposed to instantly occurring. Progressive and gradual as opposed to one event and it’s all over.

But, beloved, be not ignorant of this one thing, that one day is with the Lord as a thousand years, and a thousand years as one day..." (2Peter 3:8,10).

I have appointed thee each day for a year" (Ezekiel 4:4-6).

One of the reasons I believe Christians have missed Christ’s return is that they understand ‘day’ as 24 hours so are expecting a sudden 24 hour event during which world peace will automatically occur, the kingdom of God will be established and the world will become a paradise. All in a ‘day’ and without them having to lift a finger, so Christians are averse if not hostile to the idea that they have to do anything as It will all automatically happen in a day.

Whereas for God a day is as a thousand years which allows for gradual unfoldment of His Kingdom over that period of a thousand years. In time world peace will happen the Kingdom of God will be established and earth will become like a paradise gradually. And because it will take a long time people will be called to help build it as opposed to God doing it in a 24 hour day by some miracle.

So you can see the problem here in that Christians want and expect an instant, automatic solution or miracle of God that does not require them to get their hands dirty but for it to all be served up on a platter for them whereas it’s a massive undertaking and one of the reasons it’s going to take so long is because others refuse to help build it because they are expecting God to wait on them and perform a miraculous transformation of the world into the kingdom of God in 24 hours.

So until people wake up that God is not going to wait on them hand and foot and that they have to build the Kingdom of God based on guidance from the Word of God and the Universal House of Justice then that world is centuries away as Baha’is are so few in number that we can’t possibly do it alone. So wars don’t end, peace hasn’t come because people are waiting for God to appear and establish His Kingdom instantly and miraculously in a day or 24 hours.

So the world waits and waits and nothing is going to happen until people wake up that they have to build the Kingdom of God and that it’s not going to fall out if the sky ready made and assembled.

CG Didymus · Nov 17, 2019

loverofhumanity said:
A supreme proof is the teaching. For instance the precepts of Christ were sufficient proof of his validity. There is no greater proof than these teachings. They were the light of that cycle and the spirit of that age. All that he said accorded with the needs of the humanity of that time. They were peerless and unique.(Divine Philosophy)

Beyond the relatively great teachings of the Baha'i Faith, Baha'is do try and use prophecies to show that The Bab and Baha'u'llah are who they say they are. Some prophecies work fairly well, others don't. The best one is the "1260" day one. But to use it six times for different people doing different things? One prophecy does not fit all. Or, I should say, six different prophecies about different things can't all be forced to mean the same duration of time... the 1260 lunar years between 621 and 1844.

But, there's other prophecies. This thread is about what the Second Coming will look like. And people have pointed to how the world is still a mess. So, a related question would be... What would the post Second Coming world look like?

The world after Jesus was still a mess, so Jews were not convinced that Jesus was the Messiah. Muhammad? Same thing. The Bab? Same thing. Why he even needs to be a manifestation, I don't know. Why couldn't Baha'is be happy with saying that he was Elijah, the forerunner to the manifestation? But then we get the man who claim to be the "Great One", the Return of Christ. The Lord of Lords and Prince of Peace. Yet, we have no peace.

So which prophecies say that when the Messiah does come, the world will still be a mess and disasters will still be happening? Are the prophecies that make it sound that evil will be done away with misleading? Are we taking them too literal when we should have been seeing them with "spiritual" eyes and know that they were only "symbolic"? Is there a prophecy that says the new golden age of peace will be a long process? And how long? Don't Baha'is expect a great upheaval that will cause the people of the world to turn to the Baha'is to bring order to the chaos? But then, so does Christianity. there will be wars and rumors of wars, but that is not yet the end. An upheaval would still fit what Christians are saying. So who's right?

loverofhumanity said:
Many of the prophecies are written in a very dramatic and alarming manner you know that a day in prophecy is as a year but that a day of God is a thousand years so with that understanding we can confirm that some prophecies have been fulfilled but as the day of God is as a 1,000 years then this indicates ‘process ‘ as opposed to instantly occurring. Progressive and gradual as opposed to one event and it’s all over.

But, beloved, be not ignorant of this one thing, that one day is with the Lord as a thousand years, and a thousand years as one day..." (2Peter 3:8,10).

I have appointed thee each day for a year" (Ezekiel 4:4-6).

One of the reasons I believe Christians have missed Christ’s return is that they understand ‘day’ as 24 hours so are expecting a sudden 24 hour event during which world peace will automatically occur, the kingdom of God will be established and the world will become a paradise. All in a ‘day’ and without them having to lift a finger, so Christians are averse if not hostile to the idea that they have to do anything as It will all automatically happen in a day.

Whereas for God a day is as a thousand years which allows for gradual unfoldment of His Kingdom over that period of a thousand years. In time world peace will happen the Kingdom of God will be established and earth will become like a paradise gradually. And because it will take a long time people will be called to help build it as opposed to God doing it in a 24 hour day by some miracle.

So you can see the problem here in that Christians want and expect an instant, automatic solution or miracle of God that does not require them to get their hands dirty but for it to all be served up on a platter for them whereas it’s a massive undertaking and one of the reasons it’s going to take so long is because others refuse to help build it because they are expecting God to wait on them and perform a miraculous transformation of the world into the kingdom of God in 24 hours.

So until people wake up that God is not going to wait on them hand and foot and that they have to build the Kingdom of God based on guidance from the Word of God and the Universal House of Justice then that world is centuries away as Baha’is are so few in number that we can’t possibly do it alone. So wars don’t end, peace hasn’t come because people are waiting for God to appear and establish His Kingdom instantly and miraculously in a day or 24 hours.

So the world waits and waits and nothing is going to happen until people wake up that they have to build the Kingdom of God and that it’s not going to fall out if the sky ready made and assembled.

Okay, it's going to take some time, but... the prophecies tell of all the bad things that are going to happen before the return. Bad things are still happening. And, potentially getting worse. The prophecies in the Bible make it sound like the worst things happen just before the return... not after.

loverofhumanity · Nov 18, 2019

CG Didymus said:
Beyond the relatively great teachings of the Baha'i Faith, Baha'is do try and use prophecies to show that The Bab and Baha'u'llah are who they say they are. Some prophecies work fairly well, others don't. The best one is the "1260" day one. But to use it six times for different people doing different things? One prophecy does not fit all. Or, I should say, six different prophecies about different things can't all be forced to mean the same duration of time... the 1260 lunar years between 621 and 1844.

But, there's other prophecies. This thread is about what the Second Coming will look like. And people have pointed to how the world is still a mess. So, a related question would be... What would the post Second Coming world look like?

The world after Jesus was still a mess, so Jews were not convinced that Jesus was the Messiah. Muhammad? Same thing. The Bab? Same thing. Why he even needs to be a manifestation, I don't know. Why couldn't Baha'is be happy with saying that he was Elijah, the forerunner to the manifestation? But then we get the man who claim to be the "Great One", the Return of Christ. The Lord of Lords and Prince of Peace. Yet, we have no peace.

So which prophecies say that when the Messiah does come, the world will still be a mess and disasters will still be happening? Are the prophecies that make it sound that evil will be done away with misleading? Are we taking them too literal when we should have been seeing them with "spiritual" eyes and know that they were only "symbolic"? Is there a prophecy that says the new golden age of peace will be a long process? And how long? Don't Baha'is expect a great upheaval that will cause the people of the world to turn to the Baha'is to bring order to the chaos? But then, so does Christianity. there will be wars and rumors of wars, but that is not yet the end. An upheaval would still fit what Christians are saying. So who's right?

Okay, it's going to take some time, but... the prophecies tell of all the bad things that are going to happen before the return. Bad things are still happening. And, potentially getting worse. The prophecies in the Bible make it sound like the worst things happen just before the return... not after.

The glorious vision the Bible gives is not an instant overnight one I believe. Nowhere does it say that all wars will end immediately and peace and the kingdom of God be established at once. It mentions a thousand years in Revelation that satan would be bound so to us it’s a gradual process not an overnight event. People expecting an instant miracle are and will be very disappointed as that is not God’s ways. Look how long it took Christianity to be established and not from an instant miracle but sacrifice and hard work.

Unity of Mankind · Nov 18, 2019

CG Didymus said:
So which prophecies say that when the Messiah does come, the world will still be a mess and disasters will still be happening? Are the prophecies that make it sound that evil will be done away with misleading? Are we taking them too literal when we should have been seeing them with "spiritual" eyes and know that they were only "symbolic"? Is there a prophecy that says the new golden age of peace will be a long process? And how long? Don't Baha'is expect a great upheaval that will cause the people of the world to turn to the Baha'is to bring order to the chaos? But then, so does Christianity. there will be wars and rumors of wars, but that is not yet the end. An upheaval would still fit what Christians are saying. So who's right?

According to what I remember from the writings of the Guardian of the Baha’i Faith, who is a vital central figure in accordance to the Baha’i Covenant, the Faith of Baha’u’llah will go through stages. I remember three stages depicted; the Heroic Age, the Iron Age, and the Golden Age.

The Heroic Age consisted of a time period involving the beginning or birth of the Baha’i Faith beginning with the Forerunner to Baha’u’llah known as the Bab, meaning gate. The Bab was martyred along with 20,000 of His followers in Persia which today is known as Iran. Baha’u’llah was thrown into the Prison of the Shah of Persia, physically tortured, banished in the dead of winter and exiled from Persia to the Holy Land in what became later Israel. He remained a prisoner of the Ottoman Empire until His death in the environs across the Bay of Haifa, Israel. His followers also underwent deprivations, persecutions and sometimes martyrdom under Muslim rule.

I think the stage the Baha’i Faith is in now is the Iron Age wherein Baha’i Communities are being established worldwide.

It is not until the Golden Age of Baha’u’llah that peace will be established on earth. Baha’u’llah proclaimed “The Most Great Peace” would come but since, according to Baha’u’llah, that was rejected the “Lesser Peace” must come first, which consists of a political peace.

In my personal opinion a political peace is not likely to occur until the world suffers to the point of extinction. I think that is the only way God is going to get humankind’s attention.

As for the Christians they imagine when Jesus returns the Kingdom of God on earth as it is in heaven, as envisioned in the Lord’s Prayer, will be established instantly or coincidentally with Christ’s return. However, as envisioned in the Baha’i Faith according to what the Guardian of the Baha’i Faith wrote such an occurrence will not come to fruition until the Golden Age of Baha’u’llah. The Guardian even made reference in that regard to the Christian’s Lord’s Prayer being fulfilled during that period.

Lastly, I watch a lot of what is going on politically in the US and I do see sincere efforts going on in rooting out a lot of apparent corruption under President Trump. What lately has pained me so very much is Trump’s abandonment of the Christian Kurds in Syria who had so valiantly sacrificed their lives in the thousands to support the US in its struggle to defeat ISIS by pulling out US troops so Turkey could ethnically cleanse a 200 mile buffer zone along its border. Trump strikes me as being like a modern day Nero.

TransmutingSoul · Nov 18, 2019

CG Didymus said:
Okay, it's going to take some time, but... the prophecies tell of all the bad things that are going to happen before the return. Bad things are still happening. And, potentially getting worse. The prophecies in the Bible make it sound like the worst things happen just before the return... not after.

It would be naive for us to think the world is going to get out of this unscathed. The predudices go way to deep now.

Shoghi Effendi has interpreted the Writings of Baha'u'llah in greater detail. He warned the Baha'i to get out of America.

It is foretold also that tthe Muslims will suffer greatly from the consequences that their rejection and persecution of Baha'u'llah unleashed.

Abdu’l‑Bahá in wrote in January1920.

The ills from which the world now suffers, will multiply; the gloom which envelops it will deepen. The Balkans will remain discontented. Its restlessness will increase. The vanquished Powers will continue to agitate. They will resort to every measure that may rekindle the flame of war. Movements, newly-born and world-wide in their range, will exert their utmost effort for the advancement of their designs. The Movement of the Left will acquire great importance. Its influence will spread.”

The following words of Bahá’u’lláh are indeed significant as we pause to reflect upon the present state of a strangely disordered world:

“How long will humanity persist in its waywardness? How long will injustice continue? How long is chaos and confusion to reign amongst men? How long will discord agitate the face of society? The winds of despair are, alas, blowing from every direction, and the strife that divides and afflicts the human race is daily increasing. The signs of impending convulsions and chaos can now be discerned, inasmuch as the prevailing order appears to be lamentably defective".

There is much written as to what will come, it is amazing to see it unfold each day, this passage from Baha'u'llah is approaching;

“The world is in travail and its agitation waxeth day by day. Its face is turned towards waywardness and unbelief. Such shall be its plight that to disclose it now would not be meet and seemly. Its perversity will long continue. And when the appointed hour is come, there shall suddenly appear that which shall cause the limbs of mankind to quake. Then and only then will the Divine Standard be unfurled and the Nightingale of Paradise warble its melody.”

Stay well and happy CG, we can not stop what is now unfolding, mankind are set in their ways and the choices are unfolding as we have been warned.

P/S These are some letters Shoghi Effendi wrote to America, if you want a glimpse of what is unfolding, then you can choose to read them. They are but a few of many letters.

The World Order of Bahá’u’lláh | Bahá’í Reference Library

Regards Tony

loverofhumanity · Nov 18, 2019

Humanity I believe, judges itself and brings about its own demise by choosing paths that lead to disunity, war and destruction. God I believe does not punish humanity for not accepting any Manifestation. We inflict our own crises upon ourself by ignoring the Counsels of God which would lead to peace and unity.

For example. Baha’u’llah called for world disarmament. Nations have ignored this Counsel and stock piled nuclear weapons. If they trigger a nuclear war and devastate humanity then they would have brought about their own demise.

Apart from sending a Manifestation with sound laws and teachings for each age, God does not intervene in human affairs but allows humanity to make its own choice. So if we have a WW3 then it will be our own doing and not God’s. If God gives us the remedy for our ills and we refuse to take it, our world becomes more ill with prejudices, hatreds, wars and all sorts of things like suicides, drug addictions, increased crime and violence, rapes and so on. These things are our own choices. We make our bed, we sleep in it.

I believe Christ’s return looks like this..... God sends His Manifestation with the solutions to our problems but out of pride we think we know better so we go our own way. So far, I believe ignoring Baha’u’llah’s teachings has been disastrous for humankind. Two word wars could have been averted and millions of lives saved if humanity heeded His call to unite which was His appeal to all the Kings, Rulers and religious leaders before those wars began but it went unheeded.

So whatever awaits us now will be of our own making according to the choices we make.

What will the Second Coming of Christ look like?

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