Evidence For And Against Evolution

Astrophile · Nov 14, 2019

YoursTrue said:
So, in other words, you believe and maintain the thought that the universe is not only ever-expanding, but there is no stopping point where there is no universe, is that right?

Yes, that is what I believe and maintain, in the absence of evidence to the contrary.

YoursTrue said:
(And, of course, you also must maintain that it came about by natural circumstance, somehow but not exactly like evolution, by itself without a superior intelligence designing it, is that also correct about your idea?)

That is probably true, although there is no way of disproving the existence of a superior intelligence that designed the universe.

YoursTrue said:
To review, do I understand your take on this correctly -- namely that the universe has no end to it?

If you mean that there is no boundary to space, then you are correct; that is what I believe. That does not necessarily mean that the universe is infinite in extent; after all there is no boundary to the Earth's surface, but the Earth's surface area is finite. In the same way, the universe could be finite but unbounded. If you are asking whether I believe that the universe will never end and that its future duration is infinite, then I can't answer the question; I don't know enough about cosmology.

Subduction Zone · Nov 14, 2019

SkepticThinker said:
Those articles are pretty outdated.

Here is some more recent, updated information:
Interbreeding
DNA: Genotypes and Phenotypes
Neanderthal DNA in Modern Human Genomes Is Not Silent
Genetic data on half a million Brits reveal ongoing evolution and Neanderthal legacy

Aww, spoil sport

. My ability to stand nonsense and duplicity had reached maximum levels. I was not going to give him anything until he changed his ways a bit.

This does illustrate how he has been using a futile argument against the theory of evolution. Yes, scientists disagree at times. Yes, they are even wrong at times (actually quite often). But one has to look at the correction methods and the pattern of disagreements and errors. The sciences have the ability to detect and correct errors. This happens all of the time. As corrections are made disagreements get smaller and smaller. As corrections are made errors get smaller and smaller.

How big of an error was it to say that Homo sapiens and Homo neanderthalis never interbred? Not very big, not very big at all. In the big "picture" of the evolution of life on this planet it might be one pixel on a 4K screen.

SkepticThinker · Nov 14, 2019

Subduction Zone said:
Aww, spoil sport. My ability to stand nonsense and duplicity had reached maximum levels. I was not going to give him anything until he changed his ways a bit.

This does illustrate how he has been using a futile argument against the theory of evolution. Yes, scientists disagree at times. Yes, they are even wrong at times (actually quite often). But one has to look at the correction methods and the pattern of disagreements and errors. The sciences have the ability to detect and correct errors. This happens all of the time. As corrections are made disagreements get smaller and smaller. As corrections are made errors get smaller and smaller.

How big of an error was it to say that Homo sapiens and Homo neanderthalis never interbred? Not very big, not very big at all. In the big "picture" of the evolution of life on this planet it might be one pixel on a 4K screen.

Oopsie, sorry.

Subduction Zone · Nov 14, 2019

Jose Fly said:
That make no sense whatsoever. Your argument seems to be "Mt. St. Helen's quickly laid down layers of volcanic ash and mud, therefore geological processes haven't been the same for millions of years".

You're going to have to explain that one.

It is an error of hasty generalization. One layer was deposited quickly so all layers could be deposited quickly. What he does not know is that the Mt. St. Helens deposit was not a rarity. As far as ash deposits go it is fairly common. In the grand scope of geology they are rather minor since they tend to be rather local. But with thousands upon thousands of volcanoes, if not millions, over Earth's history they are going to be found again and again and analyzed.

So geologists knew about these and were not surprised. What surprised them was when creationists made such ridiculous conclusions from the existence of such deposits. The contortions and distortions of science that creationists rely upon is rather entertaining to say the least.

Subduction Zone · Nov 14, 2019

SkepticThinker said:
This is an old creationist canard:
CC364: Marine fossils on mountains

It can be so if one is familiar with the process by which mountains are formed.
Mountains: How Are They Formed? - Universe Today
Mountains Information and Facts

Ow!! That post of his hurts. I have accused our creationists of not even having a fifth grade level of scientific literacy and that was a prime example. How could one get through high school without knowing that mountains were made largely by the uplift of existing sedimentary rock? They do not need to understand the mechanisms behind it, but they should at least have the most simplistic of basics down.

Evangelicalhumanist · Nov 14, 2019

YoursTrue said:
I know that Genesis says God made coverings for them. If you think their body parts are naughty, well so do many, many humans who make clothes to cover themselves. I do not draw the same conclusions you do about the "naughty" body parts. My only conclusion here is that animals do not make and teach each other how to cover themselves. Going with your consideration of shame, animals evidently did not "evolve" to that shameful idea you present. Yes, humans are certainly unique in this area.

My problem is I have no idea what it is you're trying to prove. We're different from many animals in many ways, similar in many others, just as animals differ and/or share traits and habits with each other. Spiders make webs to trap, and we do the same with nets. Beavers build dams, and so do we. So are you suggesting we might be more like spiders and beavers than we are like apes? I don't get what point you think you're making.

TagliatelliMonster · Nov 15, 2019

JasAnMa said:
Ok, so in no space/time, there was suddenly with no cause, an event that simultaneously produced the Continuum and the laws that govern those properties?

I don't know. Nobody does. The origins of the universe are unknown.

I want to make sure we're on the same page then I will proceed with this line of thought.

We're not on the same page.
I'm being honest and acknowledging ignorance.

You're the one that's making stuff up while inappropriatly invoking things that don't necessarily apply in the context you are trying to invoke them.

YoursTrue · Nov 15, 2019

SA Huguenot said:
Then I see the Cama is also evidence for evolution now.View attachment 32929
Funny that the cross between Camel and Lama can only be done by:
Artificial Insemination between Female lama with Male camel and not vice versa.
The offspring does not produce other offspring with each other.
Therefore, to claim that the crossing of a Lama and Camel proves evolution, is as good as telling me crossing a horse and Donkey to get a mule or hinney is evidence of the internal combustion engine proving evolution.
The only difference in the Cama is that the Lama and Camel have both 74 chromosones.
And yet evolution introduced by human interferance dont even change the type of animal to something else.
It is not any evidence of Evolution at all, but evidence that there can be crossing of animals, and even this is very scarce.
Oh, and to cross cows with Bison is crossing a cow and bison, and not evidence of evolution.
It sems as if anything nowadays is used to "Prove Evolution".

So it seems. (From the evidence.) Now here's something interesting. NASA research: Astronauts are getting clots, bizarre blood flow
So now it seems very unlikely that humans will evolve into living successfully in outer space.

YoursTrue · Nov 15, 2019

TagliatelliMonster said:
I don't know. Nobody does. The origins of the universe are unknown...
We're not on the same page.
I'm being honest and acknowledging ignorance./QUOTE]
Scientists themselves are not on the same page. But the Bible says God created the heavens and the earth. It also rightly said that mankind will never know the start to the finish.

Subduction Zone · Nov 15, 2019

YoursTrue said:
So it seems. (From the evidence.) Now here's something interesting. NASA research: Astronauts are getting clots, bizarre blood flow
So now it seems very unlikely that humans will evolve into living successfully in outer space.

Why do you make that claim?

gnostic · Nov 15, 2019

YoursTrue said:
So it seems. (From the evidence.) Now here's something interesting. NASA research: Astronauts are getting clots, bizarre blood flow
So now it seems very unlikely that humans will evolve into living successfully in outer space.

Unless, you have children, grandchildren, great grandchildren, great-great grandchildren of an astronaut, and so on, going into space, where each one of them inherit genes that exhibit the same physical conditions and that give them adaptable traits that make his or her descendants better astronauts - what does this have to do with Evolution?

Evangelicalhumanist · Nov 15, 2019

SA Huguenot said:
Then I see the Cama is also evidence for evolution now.View attachment 32929
Funny that the cross between Camel and Lama can only be done by:
Artificial Insemination between Female lama with Male camel and not vice versa.
The offspring does not produce other offspring with each other.
Therefore, to claim that the crossing of a Lama and Camel proves evolution, is as good as telling me crossing a horse and Donkey to get a mule or hinney is evidence of the internal combustion engine proving evolution.
The only difference in the Cama is that the Lama and Camel have both 74 chromosones.
And yet evolution introduced by human interferance dont even change the type of animal to something else.
It is not any evidence of Evolution at all, but evidence that there can be crossing of animals, and even this is very scarce.
Oh, and to cross cows with Bison is crossing a cow and bison, and not evidence of evolution.
It sems as if anything nowadays is used to "Prove Evolution".

Where on earth are you going? Artificial crossbreeding has nothing whatever to do with evolution, and neither proves nor disproves it.

Good grief, does the fact that I can start a forest fire mean that forest fires can't start naturally?

gnostic · Nov 15, 2019

gnostic said:
Unless, you have children, grandchildren, great grandchildren, great-great grandchildren of an astronaut, and so on, going into space, where each one of them inherit genes that exhibit the same physical conditions and that give them adaptable traits that make his or her descendants better astronauts - what does this have to do with Evolution?

My points in my last reply, @YoursTrue is that it would be relevant to Evolution, if all the astronauts’ future children and descendants were born with the same conditions that astronauts, eg “bizarre blood flow”.

This only relate to astronauts who spend any length of time aboard the space station, so it isn’t relevant to Evolution.

gnostic · Nov 15, 2019

Evangelicalhumanist said:
Good grief, does the fact that I can start a forest fire

So that’s what you have been doing in your youth.

YoursTrue · Nov 15, 2019

Subduction Zone said:
Why do you make that claim?

LOL, if what the scientists are saying is true, they better hurry and figure out how to circulate humans' blood if they're going to inhabit Mars, the moon, and so forth.

Subduction Zone · Nov 15, 2019

YoursTrue said:
LOL, if what the scientists are saying is true, they better hurry and figure out how to circulate humans' blood if they're going to inhabit Mars, the moon, and so forth.

You appear more confused than ever. Why would it be a problem on the Moon or Mars?

There is an easy cure for this on space ships too.

YoursTrue · Nov 15, 2019

gnostic said:
My points in my last reply, @YoursTrue is that it would be relevant to Evolution, if all the astronauts’ future children and descendants were born with the same conditions that astronauts, eg “bizarre blood flow”.

This only relate to astronauts who spend any length of time aboard the space station, so it isn’t relevant to Evolution.

No, not as far as I am concerned, but maybe, if there was enough time in outer space (OK, I won't delve into that now).
OTOH, many do consider that life for humans is possible in space stations, who knows? perhaps even beyond, now they are saying things can grow on the moon, or Mars, that, of course would have to imported. Unless,of course, who knows? Maybe abiogenesis could happen on the moon or Mars, and then who knows what would transpire after that? And, of course, many do think time is running out for the human race, you know, due to environmental factors and ruining of the atmosphere and more by the latest in the evolutionary progression, that would be, of course, humans.

YoursTrue · Nov 15, 2019

Subduction Zone said:
You appear more confused than ever. Why would it be a problem on the Moon or Mars?

There is an easy cure for this on space ships too.

Uh huh, sure. Did you even read the article about blood clots moreso in those returning from their trips beyond the magnetic zone of the earth?

YoursTrue · Nov 15, 2019

gnostic said:
My points in my last reply, @YoursTrue is that it would be relevant to Evolution, if all the astronauts’ future children and descendants were born with the same conditions that astronauts, eg “bizarre blood flow”.

This only relate to astronauts who spend any length of time aboard the space station, so it isn’t relevant to Evolution.

There ya go. That's evolution for you. Maybe in time the astronauts children would acclimate and the blood flow would be different after -- a few million or hundred thousand years. It's possible that SZ might agree with that. I hope so.

gnostic · Nov 15, 2019

YoursTrue said:
No, not as far as I am concerned, but maybe, if there was enough time in outer space (OK, I won't delve into that now).
OTOH, many do consider that life for humans is possible in space stations, who knows? perhaps even beyond, now they are saying things can grow on the moon, or Mars, that, of course would have to imported. Unless,of course, who knows? Maybe abiogenesis could happen on the moon or Mars, and then who knows what would transpire after that? And, of course, many do think time is running out for the human race, you know, due to environmental factors and ruining of the atmosphere and more by the latest in the evolutionary progression, that would be, of course, humans.

The problem is that you are misunderstanding Evolution, like how it work.

Evolution isn’t about changes to a single individual. Evolution is about changes to the population, but over times, so biologists are talking about “generations” of small changes.

Evolution is also about passing the genetic traits to descendants.

That “link” you provided had nothing to do with Evolution, unless you have astronauts have children during their times living in the space station, where children will inherit genes from the parents that also exhibit the same physiological conditions.

You were jumping the gun, making up your own conclusions about the article, and not understanding how Evolution works, YoursTrue.

It is your rationality that’s wrong.

Evolution doesn’t work like fictions, like X-men, the mutants, or Peter Parker bitten by spider thereby exhibiting spider’s traits, or in Alien franchise. These types of mutations don’t happen in evolutionary biology, because they are fictional.

Are you confusing actual Evolution with these Hollywood sci-fi?

Evidence For And Against Evolution

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