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Trump's In a Box Made of Stone

metis

aged ecumenical anthropologist
OK, by now most of us are aware of the seven convictions of Stone, but it goes well beyond that into a "box" that Trump is in, namely what is he to do?

Trump and Stone have been BFF for a long time, and Stone basically thumbed his nose at the court system, and his thought probably was that Trump would ultimately pardon him, as some who know Stone quite well have hypothesized when interviewed. But since Stone was convicted by a jury of his peers, thus not the House impeachment investigation itself, if Trump pardons Stone on these charges, even many Trump supporters may call "Foul!" on that. To pretend that these seven convictions are no big deal is a bridge too far for many, I believe.

OTOH, if Trump doesn't pardon Stone, then any others who may have to explain their actions related to Trump's actions would be pooping bricks since they cannot rely on a pardon from Trump. If they continue to refuse subpoenas, this would leave them in a position to quite possibly lose a lot, thus depending on Trump to bail them out is problematic-- just ask Michael Cohen.

So, Trump's in a Catch-22 as far as I can tell.
 

Bob the Unbeliever

Well-Known Member
OK, by now most of us are aware of the seven convictions of Stone, but it goes well beyond that into a "box" that Trump is in, namely what is he to do?

Trump and Stone have been BFF for a long time, and Stone basically thumbed his nose at the court system, and his thought probably was that Trump would ultimately pardon him, as some who know Stone quite well have hypothesized when interviewed. But since Stone was convicted by a jury of his peers, thus not the House impeachment investigation itself, if Trump pardons Stone on these charges, even many Trump supporters may call "Foul!" on that. To pretend that these seven convictions are no big deal is a bridge too far for many, I believe.

OTOH, if Trump doesn't pardon Stone, then any others who may have to explain their actions related to Trump's actions would be pooping bricks since they cannot rely on a pardon from Trump. If they continue to refuse subpoenas, this would leave them in a position to quite possibly lose a lot, thus depending on Trump to bail them out is problematic-- just ask Michael Cohen.

So, Trump's in a Catch-22 as far as I can tell.

In many ways? We are going to be "saved" by the fact that Dump simply cannot keep his yap shut.

He continues to perjure himself over and over, both in tweets and in public speaking.

I overheard some of today's goofiness-- the GOP strategy seems to be one Conspiracy Theory after the next, with each requiring even more boxes of tinfoil, for even more elaborate head gear...

I just wish it was all over...

tЯump: 2020: 20 years for treason, 20 years for obstruction.
 

Nakosis

Non-Binary Physicalist
Premium Member
OK, by now most of us are aware of the seven convictions of Stone, but it goes well beyond that into a "box" that Trump is in, namely what is he to do?

Trump and Stone have been BFF for a long time, and Stone basically thumbed his nose at the court system, and his thought probably was that Trump would ultimately pardon him, as some who know Stone quite well have hypothesized when interviewed. But since Stone was convicted by a jury of his peers, thus not the House impeachment investigation itself, if Trump pardons Stone on these charges, even many Trump supporters may call "Foul!" on that. To pretend that these seven convictions are no big deal is a bridge too far for many, I believe.

OTOH, if Trump doesn't pardon Stone, then any others who may have to explain their actions related to Trump's actions would be pooping bricks since they cannot rely on a pardon from Trump. If they continue to refuse subpoenas, this would leave them in a position to quite possibly lose a lot, thus depending on Trump to bail them out is problematic-- just ask Michael Cohen.

So, Trump's in a Catch-22 as far as I can tell.

If it were me, I'd just wait till after the 2020 election results to pardone Stone. So Stone will be in a White Collar prison for a year at most.
 

sealchan

Well-Known Member
OK, by now most of us are aware of the seven convictions of Stone, but it goes well beyond that into a "box" that Trump is in, namely what is he to do?

Trump and Stone have been BFF for a long time, and Stone basically thumbed his nose at the court system, and his thought probably was that Trump would ultimately pardon him, as some who know Stone quite well have hypothesized when interviewed. But since Stone was convicted by a jury of his peers, thus not the House impeachment investigation itself, if Trump pardons Stone on these charges, even many Trump supporters may call "Foul!" on that. To pretend that these seven convictions are no big deal is a bridge too far for many, I believe.

OTOH, if Trump doesn't pardon Stone, then any others who may have to explain their actions related to Trump's actions would be pooping bricks since they cannot rely on a pardon from Trump. If they continue to refuse subpoenas, this would leave them in a position to quite possibly lose a lot, thus depending on Trump to bail them out is problematic-- just ask Michael Cohen.

So, Trump's in a Catch-22 as far as I can tell.

It is probably still too early to tell if Trump supporters understand or care about this...but those who are targetted for criminal activity may more and more have incentive to cooperate and tell the truth in spite of Trump. Eventually people recognize that if you put together a team and they all turn against you, then there must be something wrong with the leader.

I suspect it may be a race against the clock as to whether the voter or the Congress will see the end of this presidency in one year or less.

More and more I am trying to focus on just the Republican response to the president as this is the place where we will see the administration finally crumble.
 

Nakosis

Non-Binary Physicalist
Premium Member
In many ways? We are going to be "saved" by the fact that Dump simply cannot keep his yap shut.

He continues to perjure himself over and over, both in tweets and in public speaking.

I overheard some of today's goofiness-- the GOP strategy seems to be one Conspiracy Theory after the next, with each requiring even more boxes of tinfoil, for even more elaborate head gear...

I just wish it was all over...

tЯump: 2020: 20 years for treason, 20 years for obstruction.

One can only perjure themselves in court.
 

columbus

yawn <ignore> yawn
More and more I am trying to focus on just the Republican response to the president as this is the place where we will see the administration finally crumble.
Here's what I'm hoping for.
Trump continues to obstruct justice right up until the primaries. Then he gets put under oath and required to answer questions about his employees and foreign affairs policies and businesses and such.

And Nancy Pelosi leads the discussion.


Given how weak the Democratic candidates are, I'm inclined to hope that someone like Romney or Kasich gets the nomination by acclaim. Then there'll be a real race.
Tom
 

columbus

yawn <ignore> yawn
Here's what I'm hoping for.
Trump continues to obstruct justice right up until the primaries. Then he gets put under oath and required to answer questions about his employees and foreign affairs policies and businesses and such.

And Nancy Pelosi leads the discussion.


Given how weak the Democratic candidates are, I'm inclined to hope that someone like Romney or Kasich gets the nomination by acclaim. Then there'll be a real race.
Tom
Like I said @AT-AT, I'm about as subtle as a quart of battery acid.
Tom
 

Subduction Zone

Veteran Member
Here's what I'm hoping for.
Trump continues to obstruct justice right up until the primaries. Then he gets put under oath and required to answer questions about his employees and foreign affairs policies and businesses and such.

And Nancy Pelosi leads the discussion.


Given how weak the Democratic candidates are, I'm inclined to hope that someone like Romney or Kasich gets the nomination by acclaim. Then there'll be a real race.
Tom
Has Trump ever testified under oath in the many lawsuits against him? I expect "I never settle" to settle again if it comes to that. Either not testify or ultimately cut a deal with Pence and resign before it comes to that.
 

It Aint Necessarily So

Veteran Member
Premium Member

Jose Fly

Fisker of men
The Stone conviction and how he's facing 20 years in federal prison has to have a bit of a chilling effect on Gordon Sondland. Now he knows if he lies in his testimony to Congress, he too may face prison time. So he faces a choice....cover for Trump and risk prison, or tell the truth and potentially bring down a Republican President and tar the GOP for years (because he allegedly spoke directly with Trump about linking aid to Ukraine with investigating the Bidens).
 

exchemist

Veteran Member
In many ways? We are going to be "saved" by the fact that Dump simply cannot keep his yap shut.

He continues to perjure himself over and over, both in tweets and in public speaking.

I overheard some of today's goofiness-- the GOP strategy seems to be one Conspiracy Theory after the next, with each requiring even more boxes of tinfoil, for even more elaborate head gear...

I just wish it was all over...

tЯump: 2020: 20 years for treason, 20 years for obstruction.
You mean this sort of thing? :-


2879.original-8994.jpg
 

metis

aged ecumenical anthropologist
Has Trump ever testified under oath in the many lawsuits against him? I expect "I never settle" to settle again if it comes to that. Either not testify or ultimately cut a deal with Pence and resign before it comes to that.
I don't think it's likely he'd leave as the day he's out of office he can be indicted on multiple counts. Even if he loses the 2020 election I have doubts he'll leave voluntarily.

Hey, maybe after out of office he'll go and live with his BFF Comrade Putin?
 
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