Disney+ warns viewers of "outdated cultural depictions" in its classic movies

ADigitalArtist · Nov 14, 2019

Shadow Wolf said:
Why should they? At should be left without limits, without restrictions, and without censorship. Those who make it shouldn't have to explain themselves. People either like their work or they don't. The audience also changes, and even Looney Toons has acknowledged that some of their older content is totally lost on today's audience. If people can't discern between what people used to believe and what is acceptable today, they probably have some issues that trigger warnings won't help or fix. Such as, if you don't know what stereotypes are in the older Disney films, children especially are not going to be able to read those things into them.

Why should they what? Why should they care about how their market which, let's be honest, is not children but their parents, are going to respond to their products? Same reason as any other company I suppose. They sure as hell aren't doing it for free speech. They're doing it for money.

Which is why it's unfair to blame 'tHE SjWs!' For Disney censoring itself over their own ideas about the market. Especially shouldn't be surprising since sanitizing stories of current controversy has been the Disney game since day 1.

'SJW' don't want problematic Kipling or Disney products swept under the 'it never happened' rug. Disney does. They want to talk about it, the context of why it existed, and question if we are really passed it.

I just went and saw Miss Saigon, which is problematic as ****. But now I know what I think works and doesn't. And I hope other theater folk go see it and get an informed opinion on it too.

ADigitalArtist · Nov 14, 2019

columbus said:
Lots of excellent old stuff is laced with "old fashioned values".

I love Tolkien. But LotR is laced with racism, classism, mysogny and violence. My sister and I disagreed about it's literary value until a few years ago. She said something that made me realize how attractive Middle Earth is to someone like me. A tall, healthy, privileged, white male with little interest in religion or women.
Of course I liked Middle Earth. Tolkien invented it for readers like me.
Tom

That same critic/essayist tweeted something to the effect of 'thing good' or 'thing bad' is a boring take. One we should have gotten bored of in high school and branched into more nuanced views.

Shadow Wolf · Nov 14, 2019

ADigitalArtist said:
Why should they what?

Explain the why's and everything behind it that most people don't know or care about. It's not up to them.

ADigitalArtist · Nov 14, 2019

Shadow Wolf said:
Explain the why's and everything behind it that most people don't know or care about. It's not up to them.

Explain the what and whys behind what to whom? What don't people care about and what's not up to whom? There is a lot of ambiguity there. Clarify?

Because I nor the Disney critic I'm talking about is asking anything or expecting anything of Disney. Any more than I'm asking anything or expecting anything of other companies like Chik Fil A. I
I'll make comments, share my ideas on what their thought process may be, but most people don't care about the **** they get up to and they're going to do what they're going to do regardless of what I have to say about it. Basically, I'm not doing it for the company or the dullards who think movies should be engaged with brains disengaged. ('Just don't think about it' is as boring as 'thing bad.')

At least Disney is interested enough in doing something like market research even if it's backwards and reactionary.

Shadow Wolf · Nov 14, 2019

ADigitalArtist said:
Explain the what and whys behind what to whom?

ADigitalArtist said:
Disney does this without addressing actual reasons

ADigitalArtist said:
Consume your media at a deeper level than the superficial and talk about the nuance of each strength and weakness.

Why should Disney have to explain such things? What concern and interest is it of theirs to inform people about the book version of Moglis Story? Most people have moved on from those sort of imperialist values workout being educated about the content of the original source.

ADigitalArtist · Nov 14, 2019

Shadow Wolf said:
What concern and interest is it of theirs to inform people about the book version of Moglis Story?

Who said it was?

I used it as an example of Disney sanitizing 'non-pc' stories of their own free will, as part of what they've always done. Only now it's being miscategorized as 'something SJW are doing to Disney.' People are all 'rawr censorship!' when it's nothing of the sort. Disney dustbinning stories they can't modernize is what Disney does. Just not always with a good idea of what was flawed in the first place.

Revoltingest · Nov 14, 2019

Evangelicalhumanist said:
As do I. But I am Liberal, not Left.

Recently, I went to see Puccini's opera Turandot. It is set in China, but the production I saw tried to remove all the dated "chinoiserie," including renaming three characters (Ping, Pang and Pong), to Jim, Bob and Bill. Same problem if you go to the ballet at Christmas to see "The Nutcracker." There are obvious cultural stereotypes written in (Chinese Dance, for example), that directors are now struggling to neutralize.

I think we are much smarter to realize that, though the stereotypes we're seeing in our arts from the past reflect the thinking of when they were written, we do not need to share them. But we don't have to pretend they didn't exist, either.

You should see what the SJWs are trying to do to The Simpsons.
They'd remake Apu from India as Bob Smith from Newark.
I hope they don't mess with Willie.

Shadow Wolf · Nov 15, 2019

ADigitalArtist said:
Who said it was?

I used it as an example of Disney sanitizing 'non-pc' stories of their own free will, as part of what they've always done. Only now it's being miscategorized as 'something SJW are doing to Disney.' People are all 'rawr censorship!' when it's nothing of the sort. Disney dustbinning stories they can't modernize is what Disney does. Just not always with a good idea of what was flawed in the first place.

The "dated cultural stereotypes" trigger warning is an SJW thing, and pretty much doing it to score "feel good" points with the Left-wing audience that actually cares about keeping dates things no one else knows about or realizes alive and thriving. Just let it die off. Even Shakespeare has not been immune to having meanings and things implied lost to time. And he was yesterday compared to someone like Aristophanes. And I'm willing to wager, a lot, most people who have seen any version of Jungle Book haven't read it. I'm also willing to bet that it's possible for a modern and globally informed audience to reach the conclusion Mogli forsakes all off the savage humanity as a whole in favor of the animals, instead of any one particular group.

Shad · Nov 15, 2019

Shadow Wolf said:
Did anyone honestly watch Jungle Book as a kid and think racially sticking to your own kind? Or that humans, bears, tigers, wolves-wild animals-don't belong together?

Nope. I can barely remember the main character. There was a bear and a tiger. I do not even remember any of the plot or anything adults are worried about.

Shad · Nov 15, 2019

columbus said:
Lots of excellent old stuff is laced with "old fashioned values".

I love Tolkien. But LotR is laced with racism, classism, mysogny and violence. My sister and I disagreed about it's literary value until a few years ago. She said something that made me realize how attractive Middle Earth is to someone like me. A tall, healthy, privileged, white male with little interest in religion or women.
Of course I liked Middle Earth. Tolkien invented it for readers like me.
Tom

He made those pretty male Elves for you.

Most serious Tolkien fans know this. A lot of his book is based on his experience in WW2 and Christianity.

ADigitalArtist · Nov 15, 2019

Shadow Wolf said:
The "dated cultural stereotypes" trigger warning is an SJW thing,

No it isn't. First of all, trigger warnings in general was created for soldiers suffering from PTSD and content warnings were decidedly put into motion by conservative family friendly talking boards. Disney and Loony Toons responded to *them* with their content warnings, not leftist progressives. Disney is conservative as it comes, and, as I said, have been sanitizing stories and history to modern sensibilities for a generation now. The only reason the Disney wokeness appeared is because Disney could do what it was already doing while also try to tap the progressive audience, who roll their eyes at the misinformed corporate pandering and the boring counter-culture figures frothing about SJW.

Shadow Wolf said:
I'm also willing to bet that it's possible for a modern and globally informed audience to reach the conclusion Mogli forsakes all off the savage humanity as a whole in favor of the animals, instead of any one particular group

I'm sure they can write fanfiction about it then show it to their facepalming lit professors.
Which is essentially what Disney did. Take a story about white imperial supremacy by the author's own admission, and spin it into something more digestible for modern audiences. But then people get hypocritically mad when they think the 'PC police' is about to do the same with a story they know (re: James Bond or Dumbo or The Simpsons) Or less hypocritical and more genuine ignorance of historical or cultural contexts to the media they consume. Which is why, of all things, those same 'SJW' DON'T want ye old problematic books to be burned.

By all means, learn about how much of a **** even for his time Kipling was, and how he injected Jungle Book with that ****, and that's why we don't tell the story that way anymore.

ADigitalArtist · Nov 15, 2019

Revoltingest said:
You should see what the SJWs are trying to do to The Simpsons.
They'd remake Apu from India as Bob Smith from Newark.
I hope they don't mess with Willie.

Ironically the biggest proponent of revising Apu into less of a racial caricature, who said that concerns from Indian and South Asians should not be met with 'you can't take a joke, grow a thicker skin,' is Hank Azaria.

...you know, the guy who voiced him for 30 years.

Wandering Monk · Nov 15, 2019

Is Nazism an outdated cultural depiction of Germans?

Stevicus · Nov 15, 2019

Wandering Monk said:
Is Nazism an outdated cultural depiction of Germans?

Well, perhaps some of the Nazi-era propaganda films might be. Or maybe if someone tried to apply those stereotypes to Germans in the present day.

It Aint Necessarily So · Nov 15, 2019

Stevicus said:
I guess the question might be asked: Should these movies even be shown at all? Or more specifically, should people even want to watch them? I can't imagine myself watching them, even for nostalgic reasons.

I watch anything like that that I can, often on Turner Classic Movies. It's history. I've recently seen Stepin Fetchit (Yowsah) and a Popeye cartoon in which Bluto punches Olive Oyl so hard she flies through the air and her head goes through a brick wall.

How about Porky Pig, a stuttering, pantless pig? Also pretty politically incorrect by modern standards.

ecco · Nov 15, 2019

Hmfff. The next thing will be a remake of Reefer Madness showing marijuana to be a good alternative to alcohol!

Disney+ warns viewers of "outdated cultural depictions" in its classic movies

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