Amazing MTF Transgender Transformations

Evangelicalhumanist said:

I am no expert in this area. However, I do know one thing for certain -- the most important "sex organ" we possess is the brain. And I think that, by and large, we are what we think we are. All my responses to the world around me (with the very few exceptions such as reflex actions) are the result of my perceptions and my thoughts about them.

Although I'm gay, I think of myself as male because I feel like a male. Fortunately for me, that's how my body turned out, as well. But I am reliably informed that this is not true for everybody. So my question becomes this: in determining "who" this person is, do you perceive their outer body to be more important, or their inner life? I think, all things considered, and without full understanding, I have to opt for the latter.

I mean, think carefully about this: think about the person who feels so strongly that she is in the wrong (male) body that she willingly undergoes hormone therapy and surgery to remove penis and testicles, and replace them with an only fair replica of a vagina. Do you think such a person is just kidding around? I certainly do not! That they would go to those sort of lengths suggests to me that this is deeply, deeply important to them. And who am I to tell them it shouldn't be?

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Saint Frankenstein said:

I get what you're saying but it's liking men that makes you gay, not liking penises. I've been with people with penises who aren't men, and actually much prefer women, regardless of what they have in their panties. It's their feminity and femalesness (along with their character, of course) that attracts me, not some organs.

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shmogie said:

OK, I see your point.

What though would you say about a person who believes the are a paraplegic, they have always believed this, and they want their legs amputated ? It is extremely important to them.

If one can choose self mutilation in one way, why not in another ?

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Estro Felino said:

What do you think of extreme situations like this

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Evangelicalhumanist said:

I guess I like the whole package. I've never been confronted with such a situation before, so really have no idea. And I'm not wildly experienced -- been faithful to the same guy for the past 25 years.

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shmogie said:

It is a free country, and people are free to choose all kinds of things. They are playing roles they have chosen.

However, you and I have the right to decide if we are going to accept their performances as reality, or fiction.

A man cannot be made into a woman, and vice versa. Except in a very limited number of people who are born with a physical manifestation of both sexes, where surgery at a very young age determines sex.

However, though I may not accept their role playing as reality, they do. I have no business saying or doing anything that might be derogatory to them or harmful. It is live, and let live.

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AT-AT said:

To me, there just seems to be a push going two different ways:

1. People with gender dysphoria wanting to have equal rights.

2. People of the religious community wanting to say that all of it is somehow immoral.

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AT-AT said:

I understand. Just remember that this "playing roles" may become a healthy part of their existence. And that there are other people out there, who will still fall in love with them and their role. So if the role changes their life, is it truely still fiction?

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shmogie said:

Your second point is simply not true. How many in the religious community have you queried on this ?

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Evangelicalhumanist said:

Have you got an example of such a person -- or is this just another strawman?

Oh, and sometimes, yes, people do believe bizarre things about themselves. For example, one very wealthy American woman thought that she was a brilliant opera singer. In fact, she was abominable. But because she could afford it, she rented an entire theatre in which to perform, and invited everyone she knew to occupy seats. Here is Florence Foster Jenkins singing "Queen of the Night" aria from "The Magic Flute."

Unfortunately, her money couldn't buy her either talent or a voice.

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AT-AT said:

If RF counts, enough to know if I create a thread on my transition on the public board, certain people will flock to it with their religious texts.

I mean, I'm willing to make the thread. If it's a quiet thread, then I will apologize to you and bow to your superior knowledge.

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shmogie said:

Duh. Gender is role playing in a fantasy.

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shmogie said:

Yes, I know of her, poor thing.

Hypotheticals exist to rationally look at an issue. I could probably find the paraplegic scenario.

I know first hand of a man taken into custody under the law allowing police officers to evaluate an individual as a threat to themselves or others, and if so, transport them to a mental hospital for 72 hours of evaluation.

He believed his fixation on sex would cause God to turn away from him. He was wailing and crying in public, and obviously needed help. Before transport he said he really had to go to the bathroom. The officer uncuffed him, and stood outside the door.

They man had a carefully hidden razor blade, and without making a sound, completely castrated himself, everything was cut off.

*If a surgeon did this to him because he wanted to be a eunuch, so he would no longer be obsessed with women, would you find this kind of mutilation acceptable ?

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shmogie said:

Possible is a great word. Nevertheless, it isn't fact.

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shmogie said:

It is a free country, and people are free to choose all kinds of things. They are playing roles they have chosen.

However, you and I have the right to decide if we are going to accept their performances as reality, or fiction.

A man cannot be made into a woman, and vice versa. Except in a very limited number of people who are born with a physical manifestation of both sexes, where surgery at a very young age determines sex.

However, though I may not accept their role playing as reality, they do. I have no business saying or doing anything that might be derogatory to them or harmful. It is live, and let live.

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Evangelicalhumanist said:

Shall we just lump everything into the same discussion? Sure, let's look into the Russian sect, the Skoptsy, who all castrated themselves (women, too!) in the name of removing "original sin," which they thought to the "Mark of Cain." Sorry, but religious idiocy is a different disease altogether.

But I give up. Your view of the world seems to be that everybody should "be what you were born to be, do what you were born to do, and if you're miserable, just shut up and get over it. Nobody cares."

I can't be that sort of person, I'm afraid. Caring about others is my peculiarity.

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shmogie said:

No, I am asking a very serious question.

It seems that many believe that trans surgery is acceptable because it relates to sex, and makes people feel better about themselves.

My question is very simple, and you appear to not want to answer it. Is any form of surgery, equally not required for physical health purposes, but not related to sex, acceptable if it makes the person feel better about themselves ?

What I strongly suspect is a double standard. No, you are crazy to want your leg cut off. Wow, it is so cool you want your genitalia cut off.

I have no doubt that people have wanted to seriously alter themselves in various ways for their own reasons, and have been blocked from doing so.

I simply want to know, where is the line between sanity and mental illness when it comes to doing such things to yourself.

It would seem to me that if one person can self mutilate another can.

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Estro Felino said:

You are very wrong...I am sorry...
In the case of FtM people, the surgery is falloplasty, which is no mutilation.

As for my case , the surgery is called vaginoplasty and is the reconstruction of vagina with the penis skin. It is unfair to call it mutilation also because my organ was transformed into something else.

That said... you seem not to empathize towards people whose life is characterized by enormous suffering.

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shmogie said:

I respect your right to make life choices that make you happy.

Are you saying then that there are criteria that should exist before one can have a surgery of this type, or in reality should someone just be able to decide to do this ?
.

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