Amazing MTF Transgender Transformations

Estro Felino said:

Like this?

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I'm at work so I'm not going to spend my limited time watching a hit piece.
But here, you have to file a form, sometimes with a fee, to the government to change your legal name. It's a bit of a process to reissue your ID after the legal name change but there is no requirement to change your legal name other than you want to.

I feel the same way about changing your ID's 'male or female' listing. No 'diagnosis' required.

Wandering Monk said:

If you have an X and a Y chromosome, you are male no matter how you feel about it or what you cut off or attach.

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What does it matter to anyone but the transgender person? Does it affect me? You? That person there? This person here? Why are people so preoccupied with others' sexuality, and what they should be or are? I don't understand this. Can someone ELI5 me on it?

Jainarayan said:

What does it matter to anyone but the transgender person? Does it affect me? You? That person there? This person here? Why are people so preoccupied with others' sexuality, and what they should be or are? I don't understand this. Can someone ELI5 me on it?

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To me, there just seems to be a push going two different ways:

1. People with gender dysphoria wanting to have equal rights.

2. People of the religious community wanting to say that all of it is somehow immoral.

Evangelicalhumanist said:

No, I'm saying I like the bits in question -- and would feel deprived were they not there and ready for action. That's what makes me gay.

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I get what you're saying but it's liking men that makes you gay, not liking penises. I've been with people with penises who aren't men, and actually much prefer women, regardless of what they have in their panties. It's their feminity and femalesness (along with their character, of course) that attracts me, not some organs.

This debate is interesting...

However I just wanted to underline that people's feelings and identity is something sacred and must be respected above everything



. Nevertheless in my country the state is interested in what happens in two people's bedrooms and the law cannot allow a marital couple to swap genders and then continue having sex.
Or better, if they want legal recognition, they have to undergo SRS first.

Parenthood is something sacred, and children's wellness and welfare must be preserved.

Estro Felino said:

This debate is interesting...

However I just wanted to underline that people's feelings and identity is something sacred and must be respected above everything



. Nevertheless in my country the state is interested in what happens in two people's bedrooms and the law cannot allow a marital couple to swap genders and then continue having sex.
Or better, if they want legal recognition, they have to undergo SRS first.

Parenthood is something sacred, and children's wellness and welfare must be preserved.

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Sounds like you support your country's views. Which some LGBTQ+ in the US could see as restrictive to them and unfair. For what it is worth.

AT-AT said:

Sounds like you support your country's views. Which some LGBTQ+ in the US could see as restrictive to them and unfair. For what it is worth.

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I understand. We are not as liberal as you guys.

Estro Felino said:

This debate is interesting...

However I just wanted to underline that people's feelings and identity is something sacred and must be respected above everything



. Nevertheless in my country the state is interested in what happens in two people's bedrooms and the law cannot allow a marital couple to swap genders and then continue having sex.
Or better, if they want legal recognition, they have to undergo SRS first.

Parenthood is something sacred, and children's wellness and welfare must be preserved.

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I'll be holding my breath for when they show pre-op trans having children somehow puts the children in danger. What I expect is the same sort of gender role bull**** traditionalists used to try and stop gays from having children. A feeling of misgiving born from centuries of bigotry rather than anything approaching child development research.

It's literally a law borne from ignorance.

AT-AT said:

To me, there just seems to be a push going two different ways:

1. People with gender dysphoria wanting to have equal rights.

2. People of the religious community wanting to say that all of it is somehow immoral.

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I think it all is a matter of perspective.

From a medical standpoint, a person is always going to be the sex that they started with. Your bone structure will never lie. Cutting off or sewing on a penis or ballooning some boobs isn't going to change the foundation.

Culturally and socially, designer sex is not a big deal to me. That's an aspect and joy of having personal freedom and a few generations, after all the old stolid fogeys die off, I'm pretty sure it will be totally acceptable down the road and transgender and transsexual and will be a norm that will barely raise an eyebrow.

As far as morality goes, there's really nothing immoral about it although one can legitimately ask from time to time why some people continually mutilate their bodies if they're just going to end up being worse off than before?

Estro Felino said:

The Italian Law approves of homosexuality, there is gay marriage.
It doesn't approve of twisting the biological role of father and mother. In the case of that video, the "mother" made the "father" pregnant with her penis...so..it is quite messed up..

But I deeply respect the American law...we just have a different juridic tradition here

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Are you actually saying that trans people should be required to sterilize ourselves and never have biological kids if the law is to recognize who we are? That's ridiculous. In most of Western Europe they're realizing that that's a human rights violation and banning such laws. If people are capable of parenting and wish to become parents, what right does the State have to deny them that? How is it wrong to use the organs you have to do it? It's not like we have a choice.

Saint Frankenstein said:

Are you actually saying that trans people should be required to sterilize ourselves and never have biological kids if the law is to recognize who we are? That's ridiculous. In most of Western Europe they're realizing that that's a human rights violation and banning such laws. If people are capable of parenting and wish to become parents, what right does the State have to deny them that? How is it wrong to use the organs you have to do it? It's not like we have a choice.

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As I previously said, during intercourse there is a passive part ( usually a woman) and an active part ( man)...
The Italian law cannot recognize the right of MtFs to father children with their male organs.
Or better, they can do that, but they lose the right to be considered women by the law.

This to avoid confusing situations like this

shmogie said:

What do the genes say ?

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Ring-ding-ding-ding-dingeringeding!
Gering-ding-ding-ding-dingeringeding!
Gering-ding-ding-ding-dingeringeding!


Nothing. Genes determine genetic sex. They don't even determine phenotypic sex 100% of the time.

Sex is not gender.

Nowhere Man said:

As far as morality goes, there's really nothing immoral about it although one can legitimately ask from time to time why some people continually mutilate their bodies if they're just going to end up being worse off than before?

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I mutilated my body to get psychological wellness and I did get it.

I have never wanted a penis...it is like you asked a woman..." do u want to have a penis?"
She will surely respond" no I don't "

Estro Felino said:

As I previously said, during intercourse there is a passive part ( usually a woman) and an active part ( man)...
The Italian law cannot recognize the right of MtFs to father children with their male organs.
Or better, they can do that, but they lose the right to be considered women by the law.

This to avoid confusing situations like this

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I know of trans men and trans women having children together, but I don't see any problem with it. What does how the child is made have to do with it? Is IVF banned in Italy, too? Some men don't have penises such as combat vets or victims of disease. Are they not allowed to have sex now?

Also, just because you're being penetrated doesn't mean you are "passive" (and being passive is not what makes a woman). There are power bottoms, you know. I personally don't think you understand much of the nuances of sex. It's very complex.

Estro Felino said:

I mutilated my body to get psychological wellness and I did get it.

I have never wanted a penis...it is like you asked a woman..." do u want to have a penis?"
She will surely respond" no I don't "

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Being a PreOP simply means less (or no) surgery and the possible potential for more sex drive.

I doubt many PreOPs say "no I don't" in quite that way. The line of thinking probably factors into many things including what their partner, if they have one, would be accepting of or okay with, or how they feel about what they have.

Estro Felino said:

I don't understand what you want to know...

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Just confused is all. It seems a drastic thing to require sexual reassignment surgery for a name change, but why not require a name change for sexual reassignment if the issue is in the law matching a person's appearance/social role to the pronoun used?

Guitar's Cry said:

Just confused is all. It seems a drastic thing to require sexual reassignment surgery for a name change, but why not require a name change for sexual reassignment if the issue is in the law matching a person's appearance/social role to the pronoun used?

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Many transgender people undergo SRS because they are not comfortable with the genital organs they were born with...

I think people can't even imagine how much suffering there is behind their stories...
It is not a game...

So I guess the Italian law is more empathetic with the transgender people who suffer because of their condition of not having the genital organs they identify with.


As for Europe Italy is one of the most advanced countries as for techniques and medicsl staff with experience of SRS.

Wandering Monk said:

Do you dispute what I said? Or just the way I said it?

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I am no expert in this area. However, I do know one thing for certain -- the most important "sex organ" we possess is the brain. And I think that, by and large, we are what we think we are. All my responses to the world around me (with the very few exceptions such as reflex actions) are the result of my perceptions and my thoughts about them.

Although I'm gay, I think of myself as male because I feel like a male. Fortunately for me, that's how my body turned out, as well. But I am reliably informed that this is not true for everybody. So my question becomes this: in determining "who" this person is, do you perceive their outer body to be more important, or their inner life? I think, all things considered, and without full understanding, I have to opt for the latter.

I mean, think carefully about this: think about the person who feels so strongly that she is in the wrong (male) body that she willingly undergoes hormone therapy and surgery to remove penis and testicles, and replace them with an only fair replica of a vagina. Do you think such a person is just kidding around? I certainly do not! That they would go to those sort of lengths suggests to me that this is deeply, deeply important to them. And who am I to tell them it shouldn't be?

9-10ths_Penguin said:

Ring-ding-ding-ding-dingeringeding!
Gering-ding-ding-ding-dingeringeding!
Gering-ding-ding-ding-dingeringeding!

Nothing. Genes determine genetic sex. They don't even determine phenotypic sex 100% of the time.

Sex is not gender.

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Duh. Gender is role playing in a fantasy.

Here's an interesting story from Wikipedia -- one that might explain why I, as a Canadian, am more accepting than some others.

In 1997, Seargent Sylvia Durand became the first serving member of the Canadian Forces to transition from male to female, and became the first member of any military worldwide to transition openly while serving under the Flag. On Canada Day of 1998, the military changed her legal name from Sylvain to Sylvia and changed her sex designation on all of her personal file documents. In 1999, the military paid for her Sex Reassignment Surgery. Sylvia continued to serve and got promoted to the rank of Warrant Officer. When she retired in 2012, after more than 31 years of service, she was the assistant to the Canadian Forces Chief Communications Operator. Sex reassignment surgery (male-to-female) - Wikipedia