• Welcome to Religious Forums, a friendly forum to discuss all religions in a friendly surrounding.

    Your voice is missing! You will need to register to get access to the following site features:
    • Reply to discussions and create your own threads.
    • Our modern chat room. No add-ons or extensions required, just login and start chatting!
    • Access to private conversations with other members.

    We hope to see you as a part of our community soon!

Female Pastors? is it Biblical

101G

Well-Known Member
Opinions are not needed, only scriptures to prove your point. I use the term "Female" only as a reference point for understanding. because there is neither male nor female in Christ Jesus.

With that said, "Can holy women/females in Christ be pastors, bishops, and overseers in the body, the Church that he the Lord Jesus built?". if one have a view, or comment, pro, or con, let them be posted with supportive scripture to establish the claim.

Let's set some terms before we discuss.

A. what is the function, or the WORK, of a biblical pastor? scripture, Jeremiah 3:15 "And I will give you pastors according to mine heart, which shall feed you with knowledge and understanding."

B. Women are prophets, and prophets are "Ordain" in the Church. supportive scripture, 1 Corinthians 12:28 "And God hath set some in the church, first apostles, secondarily prophets, thirdly teachers, after that miracles, then gifts of healings, helps, governments, diversities of tongues."
the term "set" in the verse is also translated as Ordain".

PICJAG.
 

Brickjectivity

Turned to Stone. Now I stretch daily.
Staff member
Premium Member
Opinions are not needed, only scriptures to prove your point. I use the term "Female" only as a reference point for understanding. because there is neither male nor female in Christ Jesus.

With that said, "Can holy women/females in Christ be pastors, bishops, and overseers in the body, the Church that he the Lord Jesus built?". if one have a view, or comment, pro, or con, let them be posted with supportive scripture to establish the claim.

Let's set some terms before we discuss.

A. what is the function, or the WORK, of a biblical pastor? scripture, Jeremiah 3:15 "And I will give you pastors according to mine heart, which shall feed you with knowledge and understanding."

B. Women are prophets, and prophets are "Ordain" in the Church. supportive scripture, 1 Corinthians 12:28 "And God hath set some in the church, first apostles, secondarily prophets, thirdly teachers, after that miracles, then gifts of healings, helps, governments, diversities of tongues."
the term "set" in the verse is also translated as Ordain".

PICJAG.
There are some guidelines in 2 Timothy for selecting deacons, and it suggests that they be men. Some scholars (Like Bart Ehrman), however, suggest that 2 Timothy is tainted by some political subterfuge against women. I think is true, and I think that somewhere along early on there was a change in policy about whether women could be in charge of communion. This suggests that it is a changeable choice.

Elders are likely what they sound like in Paul's letters: people who have been in the church and are mature. I don't know if the term 'Elder' specifies that it be male or not.

To consider a difference between men and women pastors we'd need to show there was some basis in the way that pastors are selected at all. It appears there are many blanks to fill in, things not in the texts. The passage mentioned in the OP does not suggest that the congregation chooses pastors, teachers. Many commentators suggest these are talking about people dynamically chosen by the spirit rather than permanently recognized appointments. For example according to these each person might occasionally act as a pastor or exhibit a gift like discernment in which case you'd be making a mistake to choose pastors at all.

If I put all of that together it seems to me yes you can have women pastors, but there is no written selection process in the NT texts. That's if you're trying to interpolate from NT texts. We haven't established whether you can do that, whether NT texts are sufficient for designing a church. It appears not to be the case, that you actually need to make decisions for yourself.
 

Skwim

Veteran Member
Opinions are not needed, only scriptures to prove your point. I use the term "Female" only as a reference point for understanding. because there is neither male nor female in Christ Jesus.
You mean that Jesus was without a penis? Chapter and verse please.

With that said, "Can holy women/females in Christ be pastors, bishops, and overseers in the body, the Church that he the Lord Jesus built?". if one have a view, or comment, pro, or con, let them be posted with supportive scripture to establish the claim.
Couldn't find any scripture saying females can be pastors, and I couldn't find any scripture saying they can't be. Now what?

Let's set some terms before we discuss.

A. what is the function, or the WORK, of a biblical pastor? scripture, Jeremiah 3:15 "And I will give you pastors according to mine heart, which shall feed you with knowledge and understanding."

B. Women are prophets, and prophets are "Ordain" in the Church. supportive scripture, 1 Corinthians 12:28 "And God hath set some in the church, first apostles, secondarily prophets, thirdly teachers, after that miracles, then gifts of healings, helps, governments, diversities of tongues."
the term "set" in the verse is also translated as Ordain".

PICJAG.
So where does it say women are prophets?

.
 
Last edited:

Deeje

Avid Bible Student
Premium Member
Opinions are not needed, only scriptures to prove your point. I use the term "Female" only as a reference point for understanding. because there is neither male nor female in Christ Jesus.

I believe that this pertains only to those given an invitation to rule with Christ in his Kingdom. These become spirit creatures who have a specific role. As spirit 'kings and priests' in heaven, gender plays no role. (Revelation 20:6)

With that said, "Can holy women/females in Christ be pastors, bishops, and overseers in the body, the Church that he the Lord Jesus built?". if one have a view, or comment, pro, or con, let them be posted with supportive scripture to establish the claim.

In the earthly realm of God's Kingdom, in Israel there were never any female priests or teachers.

Ephesians 4:7-8...
"But to each one of us grace was given according to the measure of Christ’s gift. 8 Therefore it says,

“When He ascended on high,
He led captive a host of captives,
And He gave gifts to men.” (NASB)


Paul is here quoting Psalm 68:18

In the qualifications for elders in the Christian congregation 1 Timothy 3:says...
"It is a trustworthy statement: if any man aspires to the office of overseer, it is a fine work he desires to do. 2 An overseer, then, must be above reproach, the husband of one wife, temperate, prudent, respectable, hospitable, able to teach, 3 not addicted to wine or pugnacious, but gentle, peaceable, free from the love of money. 4 He must be one who manages his own household well, keeping his children under control with all dignity 5 (but if a man does not know how to manage his own household, how will he take care of the church of God?), 6 and not a new convert, so that he will not become conceited and fall into the condemnation incurred by the devil. 7 And he must have a good reputation with those outside the church, so that he will not fall into reproach and the snare of the devil."

No mention of women in this role.

Let's set some terms before we discuss.

A. what is the function, or the WORK, of a biblical pastor? scripture, Jeremiah 3:15 "And I will give you pastors according to mine heart, which shall feed you with knowledge and understanding."

Jeremiah 3:15...
"Then I will give you shepherds after My own heart, who will feed you on knowledge and understanding."

Shepherds of the flock in Bible times were always men, both in Israel and in Christianity. It wasn't that women could not teach because they were instructors of their own children (Proverbs 1:8) and any others who wanted to learn about God....but teaching in the congregation was reserved for males only.

Ephesians 5:22-24...
"Wives, be subject to your own husbands, as to the Lord. 23 For the husband is the head of the wife, as Christ also is the head of the church, He Himself being the Savior of the body. 24 But as the church is subject to Christ, so also the wives ought to be to their husbands in everything."

This "subjection" does not sit well with today's women who see equality as their right....but God is the one who designed the sexes to be complimentary.....not competitive. This was not condoning dictatorship because it was based on Christ's treatment of his disciples.....always loving.

In Genesis 2:18 it says...
"Then the Lord God said, “It is not good for the man to be alone; I will make him a helper suitable for him.”

The role of a wife was to be the support crew....the "helper". The husband is head of his wife like Christ is the head of the congregation. God has never changed that arrangement.

B. Women are prophets, and prophets are "Ordain" in the Church. supportive scripture, 1 Corinthians 12:28 "And God hath set some in the church, first apostles, secondarily prophets, thirdly teachers, after that miracles, then gifts of healings, helps, governments, diversities of tongues."
the term "set" in the verse is also translated as Ordain".

When 1 Corinthians was written, Paul also wrote this.....
1Timothy 2:11-13...
" A woman must quietly receive instruction with entire submissiveness. 12 But I do not allow a woman to teach or exercise authority over a man, but to remain quiet. 13 For it was Adam who was first created, and then Eve."

So Paul acknowledged God's creation of woman as a support partner. She was not permitted to exercise authority over a man as this was not God arrangement.

1 Corinthians 11:3; 8-9.....
"But I want you to understand that Christ is the head of every man, and the man is the head of a woman, and God is the head of Christ......For man does not originate from woman, but woman from man; 9 for indeed man was not created for the woman’s sake, but woman for the man’s sake."

Again, this would not sit well with many of today's women but it was God's arrangement from the beginning. Gender roles were set by our Creator. The thing to note however is that Christ is subject to God....the man is subject to Christ. There is order in God's arrangement.

Those are my scriptural reasons for women keeping to their God assigned role. No women Pastors.
 
Last edited:
  • Like
Reactions: Moz

danieldemol

Well-Known Member
Premium Member
Opinions are not needed, only scriptures to prove your point. I use the term "Female" only as a reference point for understanding. because there is neither male nor female in Christ Jesus.

With that said, "Can holy women/females in Christ be pastors, bishops, and overseers in the body, the Church that he the Lord Jesus built?". if one have a view, or comment, pro, or con, let them be posted with supportive scripture to establish the claim.

Let's set some terms before we discuss.

A. what is the function, or the WORK, of a biblical pastor? scripture, Jeremiah 3:15 "And I will give you pastors according to mine heart, which shall feed you with knowledge and understanding."

B. Women are prophets, and prophets are "Ordain" in the Church. supportive scripture, 1 Corinthians 12:28 "And God hath set some in the church, first apostles, secondarily prophets, thirdly teachers, after that miracles, then gifts of healings, helps, governments, diversities of tongues."
the term "set" in the verse is also translated as Ordain".

PICJAG.
If you don’t want opinions I would have started this in biblical debates
 

dybmh

דניאל יוסף בן מאיר הירש

Brickjectivity

Turned to Stone. Now I stretch daily.
Staff member
Premium Member
In the qualifications for elders in the Christian congregation 1 Timothy 3:says...
"It is a trustworthy statement: if any man aspires to the office of overseer, it is a fine work he desires to do. 2 An overseer, then, must be above reproach, the husband of one wife,
Yes, it is I Timothy not 2. Probably it is original. This is probably not an altered text. I think Paul is telling Timothy in this case that he is to choose proven good men to be deacons. Again, there is no ironclad rule that they have to be men in every church, everywhere. The benefit here is that a man may prove himself through the methods in 1 Timothy. These are challenging conditions.
 

101G

Well-Known Member
There are some guidelines in 2 Timothy for selecting deacons, and it suggests that they be men. Some scholars (Like Bart Ehrman), however, suggest that 2 Timothy is tainted by some political subterfuge against women. I think is true, and I think that somewhere along early on there was a change in policy about whether women could be in charge of communion. This suggests that it is a changeable choice.

Elders are likely what they sound like in Paul's letters: people who have been in the church and are mature. I don't know if the term 'Elder' specifies that it be male or not.

To consider a difference between men and women pastors we'd need to show there was some basis in the way that pastors are selected at all. It appears there are many blanks to fill in, things not in the texts. The passage mentioned in the OP does not suggest that the congregation chooses pastors, teachers. Many commentators suggest these are talking about people dynamically chosen by the spirit rather than permanently recognized appointments. For example according to these each person might occasionally act as a pastor or exhibit a gift like discernment in which case you'd be making a mistake to choose pastors at all.

If I put all of that together it seems to me yes you can have women pastors, but there is no written selection process in the NT texts. That's if you're trying to interpolate from NT texts. We haven't established whether you can do that, whether NT texts are sufficient for designing a church. It appears not to be the case, that you actually need to make decisions for yourself.
GINOLJC, to all.
First thanks for the reply, second, I see you carefully placed your words, that's excellent.
you're correct on several aspects of your response. since yours is the first response with good insight on the scriptures, may we share our prospective by scriptures.
A. Yes, biblical Pastors are given, for there is only one "Pastor" in the body of christ and that's the Lord Jesus himself. so Pastoring is spiritual., and it's a gifts.

B. the guidelines in 2 Timothy is for men who are MARRIED and have a "DESIRE",not chosen, but have a "DESIRE" to obtain the work of a Pastor/Boshop. for pastoring is a work and not an office. I hope to discuss 2 Timothy as with the deacons in more detail later.

C. All the Work, or seliction, or the calling to be empowered with a Gift is ordained by God, and the Church, as stated in 1 Corinthians 12:28. which we will also discuss later, god willing.

now for scriptual support of women in the work of the ministry.Right in the first book of the apostle Paul in the bible, the Book of Romans, we have a clear picture of women in the Pastoral role, and clearly identified as "Bishops". supportive scriptures, Romans 16:1 "I commend unto you Phebe our sister, which is a servant of the church which is at Cenchrea:"Romans 16:2 "That ye receive her in the Lord, as becometh saints, and that ye assist her in whatsoever business she hath need of you: for she hath been a succourer of many, and of myself also."Romans 16:3 "Greet Priscilla and Aquila my helpers in Christ Jesus:"

lets give notice to the words in red, which reveals the women bishops and pastors in these verses.. #1. succourer: it is the Greek word,
G4368 προστάτις prostatis (pro-sta'-tis) n.
a patroness, i.e. assistant.
[feminine of a derivative of G4291]
KJV: succourer
Root(s): G4291

to clearly understand what this word means we need to find out what G4291 means and see where, and why it was derived.according to Thayer's Greek Definitions it's the Greek word,
Original: προΐ́στημι
- Transliteration: Proistemi
- Phonetic: pro-is'-tay-mee
- Definition:
1. to set or place before
a. to set over
b. to be over, to superintend, preside over
c. to be a protector or guardian

1. to give aid
d. to care for, give attention to
1. profess honest occupations
- Origin: from G4253 and G2476

to be "over", to superintend, preside over. these are the things what a Pastor/Bishop do. and our sister Phebe was sent to rome to be their first Pastor/Bishop at rome. for she was a succourer
meaning she was a "FEMALE" in the same position as a Male. succourer as the definition states, [feminine of a derivative of G4291]. other words just a FEMALE is a prophetess to her male counterpart a prophet.

Now another Bishop in the scriptures. Romans 16:3 "Greet Priscilla and Aquila my helpers in Christ Jesus:" here the term "HELPER" is the Greek word,
G4904 συνεργός sunergos (sïn-er-ğos') adj.
a co-laborer, i.e. coadjutor.
[from a presumed compound of G4862 and the base of G2041]
KJV: companion in labour, (fellow-)helper(-labourer, -worker), labourer together with, workfellow

if one was catholic they would understand what "coadjutor" mean, for those who don't dictionary.com can give you the answer.
an assistant.
an assistant to a bishop or other ecclesiastic.
a bishop who assists another bishop, with the right of succession.

this is what was happening here in Romans. Priscilla and Aquila was "coadjutor" with the apostle Paul in our sister Phebe succession to the appointment of Bishop/Pastor at Rome.

just for starters we have two women bishops who played a key role in the development of the Saint at rome.

again that you for your post, and may you find just this tit bit interesting.

PICJAG.
 

101G

Well-Known Member
You mean that Jesus was without a penis? Chapter and verse please.


Couldn't find any scripture saying females can be pastors, and I couldn't find any scripture saying they can't be. Now what?


So where does it say women are prophets?

.
ommiting the vain first question, the second question see post #11.
OT full of reference, and NT, a prophetess is just a female prophet. scripture, Acts 21:8 "And the next day we that were of Paul's company departed, and came unto Caesarea: and we entered into the house of Philip the evangelist, which was one of the seven; and abode with him." Acts 21:9 "And the same man had four daughters, virgins, which did prophesy."


PICJAG.
 

leov

Well-Known Member
Opinions are not needed, only scriptures to prove your point. I use the term "Female" only as a reference point for understanding. because there is neither male nor female in Christ Jesus.

With that said, "Can holy women/females in Christ be pastors, bishops, and overseers in the body, the Church that he the Lord Jesus built?". if one have a view, or comment, pro, or con, let them be posted with supportive scripture to establish the claim.

Let's set some terms before we discuss.

A. what is the function, or the WORK, of a biblical pastor? scripture, Jeremiah 3:15 "And I will give you pastors according to mine heart, which shall feed you with knowledge and understanding."

B. Women are prophets, and prophets are "Ordain" in the Church. supportive scripture, 1 Corinthians 12:28 "And God hath set some in the church, first apostles, secondarily prophets, thirdly teachers, after that miracles, then gifts of healings, helps, governments, diversities of tongues."
the term "set" in the verse is also translated as Ordain".

PICJAG.
It is Biblical, provided they are pneumatic.
 

101G

Well-Known Member
I believe that this pertains only to those given an invitation to rule with Christ in his Kingdom. These become spirit creatures who have a specific role. As spirit 'kings and priests' in heaven, gender plays no role. (Revelation 20:6)
agreed, for there is nomale nor female in Christ Jesus, Galatians 3:28.
In the earthly realm of God's Kingdom, in Israel there were never any female priests or teachers.

Ephesians 4:7-8...
"But to each one of us grace was given according to the measure of Christ’s gift. 8 Therefore it says,

“When He ascended on high,
He led captive a host of captives,
And He gave gifts to men.” (NASB)
Giving "Gifts" to men is generic for male and female. and as one poster gave, women did teach.
Jeremiah 3:15...
"Then I will give you shepherds after My own heart, who will feed you on knowledge and understanding."

Shepherds of the flock in Bible times were always men
I must disagree with that assessment women was Shepherds also. scripture, Genesis 29:9 "And while he yet spake with them, Rachel came with her father's sheep: for she kept them.". the New International Version makes it very plain "While he was still talking with them, Rachel came with her father's sheep, for she was a shepherd".

as for 1Timothy 2:11-13, this is a home setting speaking to wives.

1 Corinthians 11:3; 8-9 is speaking of SOURCE, not authority.. so none of the verse you gave did noting to improve your point. but thanks for them for they have already been debunked as pertainting to subjection or rule of women. nor do they position a woman place, either in the home or at church.

maybe we can discuss them futher.

PICJAG.
 

101G

Well-Known Member
If you don’t want opinions I would have started this in biblical debates
my bad then, I was looking for discussion instead of debate. let your scriptures debate for you.
again thanks for the correction, looking forward for any input.

PICJAG.
 

101G

Well-Known Member

Brickjectivity

Turned to Stone. Now I stretch daily.
Staff member
Premium Member
my bad then, I was looking for discussion instead of debate. let your scriptures debate for you.
again thanks for the correction, looking forward for any input.

PICJAG.
Note: because RF hosts multiple religions, when starting a thread in General Religious Debates you are including participants from all religions to both disagree and contest what you are putting forward. RF has areas which are more specific and where you can specify that you wish to discuss only based on Scriptures or only based upon biblical canon. In this area anybody with the Vedas can contest your points using the Vedas or anybody can contest your points using the Declaration of Independence or a UN Treaty or whatever. This section I call the 'Peanut Gallery' section, because it assumes no particular basis required for argument.
 

101G

Well-Known Member
It is Biblical, provided they are pneumatic.
Thanks for the reply. second, correct, for pastoring is "spiritual", and if one have the Holy Spirit, and is chosen of God to do the work, then it's God choice. may we futher expound on what you said. it goes back to Joel, the prophet who fortold this. Joel 2:28 "And it shall come to pass afterward, that I will pour out my spirit upon all flesh; and your sons and your daughters shall prophesy, your old men shall dream dreams, your young men shall see visions:" Joel 2:29 "And also upon the servants and upon the handmaids in those days will I pour out my spirit." this was fulfilled on pentecost. pastoring is a "GIFT" as you said, "pneumatic", Spiritual. for if one read the Gifts of the Spirit in 1 Corinthians 12:7-11, the very first GIFT on the list is the PASTORAL Gift. scripture, 1 Corinthians 12:8 "For to one is given by the Spirit the word of wisdom; to another the word of knowledge by the same Spirit;"
a word of Wisdom is UNDERSTANDING, Proverbs 1:2 "To know wisdom and instruction; to perceive the words of understanding;" 1 Corinthians 12:8b "to another the word of knowledge by the same Spirit;"
so right in the same verse we have "KNOWLEDGE" and "UNDERSTANDING". this is what a Pastor of God do, scripture, Jeremiah 3:15 "And I will give you pastors according to mine heart, which shall feed you with knowledge and understanding." there it is "knowledgr" and "understanding". so it is the Spirit that "GIVE" this gift, the pastoral gift.

PICJAG.
 

101G

Well-Known Member
Note: because RF hosts multiple religions, when starting a thread in General Religious Debates you are including participants from all religions to both disagree and contest what you are putting forward. RF has areas which are more specific and where you can specify that you wish to discuss only based on Scriptures or only based upon biblical canon. In this area anybody with the Vedas can contest your points using the Vedas or anybody can contest your points using the Declaration of Independence or a UN Treaty or whatever. This section I call the 'Peanut Gallery' section, because it assumes no particular basis required for argument.
Thank, but it's alright. I hope they read the OP first. but if they don't it's ok, and again thanks.

PICJAG.
 
Top