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If God exists, would God care how many people believe in Him?

halbhh

The wonder and awe of "all things".
If God cared about everyone believing God would reveal to everyone individually.

Since God does not care whether we believe in God or not this does not happen.

God only cares if we are virtuous
According to the scripture about that very question, the intended outcome God desires is to see which people can trust Him *without* seeing Him, the goal called 'faith', which can be thought of as a strong form of trust. It's valued. Possibly because faith allows an intelligent being to sustain love and avoid conflict in a love relationship over very extended time periods (not merely years or merely decades), by hoping for the good even when its not visible at this instant, for example. So, 'faith' is the stated purpose/goal of life here -- for instance according to the words of Jesus of Nazareth -- to believe even without seeing.

So, if instead God simply became visible, then that would preempt the goal, prevent the sometimes accomplishment of the purpose of life here. That stated purpose includes to believe in God -- trust in the ultimate Good (without seeing) -- and to learn to love our neighbors as ourselves, even if they are not like us.
 

halbhh

The wonder and awe of "all things".
This post is for both believers and atheists:
  • Believers: Do you think God cares how many people believe in Him?
  • Atheists: If God existed, do you think God would care how many people believe in Him?
Believers and atheists:
  • Do you think God cares if some people are atheists?
  • If God sent Messengers, would God care how many people believed in His Messengers?
  • If God sent a Messenger, would God have a certain time frame on how soon afterward people believed in His Messenger?

Does He care about how many? -- Yes and no. The stated attitude (via inspirations from Him -- scripture) is that He'd prefer that none perish, and that all be saved (even though many will choose against this salvation, and so won't be). But He won't tolerate evil, which is a natural human tendency, so we have to be changed profoundly, and that's part of what life here is about, and the prophets and Christ were sent to change us, alter us.

Does He care that some are atheists? -- Yes, and no. He'd prefer that none perish. And there is a time here to change, and some will and some won't.

Would He care that sometimes few believed in the messages through prophets? -- It seems so, in that the intent of such messages is that people change for the better.
 

danieldemol

Well-Known Member
Premium Member
According to the scripture about that very question, the intended outcome God desires is to see which people can trust Him *without* seeing Him, the goal called 'faith', which can be thought of as a strong form of trust. It's valued. Possibly because faith allows an intelligent being to sustain love and avoid conflict in a love relationship over very extended time periods (not merely years or merely decades), by hoping for the good even when its not visible at this instant, for example. So, 'faith' is the stated purpose/goal of life here -- for instance according to the words of Jesus of Nazareth -- to believe even without seeing.

So, if instead God simply became visible, then that would preempt the goal, prevent the sometimes accomplishment of the purpose of life here. That stated purpose includes to believe in God -- trust in the ultimate Good (without seeing) -- and to learn to love our neighbors as ourselves, even if they are not like us.
Blind and uncritical trust is valued by those who wrote the scriptures, not by me.

ETA and faith is not required to sustain love and avoid conflict
 

halbhh

The wonder and awe of "all things".
Blind and uncritical trust is valued by those who wrote the scriptures, not by me.

ETA and faith is not required to sustain love and avoid conflict
After being in a sustained relationship or marriage for 15 years or 20, in the same house, a person will possibly learn that a time when there is an absence of trust -- distrust, the absence of 'faith' in the other person -- is a very difficult time, and I think most relationships wouldn't survive that for even a year, can't continue unless that distrust ends pretty soon.


It's the common wisdom that 'trust' is important in relationships, at least in the view of most people (and not only in the view of most women, but also in the view of many or perhaps even most men).
 

Trailblazer

Veteran Member
Well. There are two choices,
1, all powerful, unlimited power
2, not all powerful, limited power
It is 1.

God is omnipotent but that does not mean God can do anything. It means that God is All-Powerful.

Omnipotence means all-powerful. ... Being omnipotent, God has power over wind, water, gravity, physics, etc. God's power is infinite, or limitless. Omniscience means all-knowing. God is all all-knowing in the sense that he is aware of the past, present, and future.

Omnipotent, Omniscient and Omnipresent God: Definition ...

“Omnipotent” derives from the Latin omnis meaning “all” and potens or “powerful.” Omnipotent is not a word used in the Bible, but “almighty” appears in virtually every book of the Old Testament, often dozens of times. El Shaddai, a Hebrew name for God, evokes His omnipotence as the Almighty. El Shaddai means God most powerful or God Almighty. What Does it Mean that God Is Omnipotent?

Question: "What does it mean that God is omnipotent?"

Answer: The word omnipotent comes from omni- meaning “all” and potent meaning “power.” As with the attributes of omniscience and omnipresence, it follows that, if God is infinite, and if He is sovereign, which we know He is, then He must also be omnipotent. He has all power over all things at all times and in all ways. What does it mean that God is omnipotent? | GotQuestions.org

God cannot do what it is not within His nature to do. For example, God cannot be evil because God is by nature good. God cannot become flesh because God is by nature Spirit. If God became flesh, then God would no longer be God, He would be a man. As a man, God would no longer be exalted beyond anything that can ever be recounted or perceived, which is who God is.

It is logically impossible for God to become evil or for God to become a man. If you think omnipotent means that God can do anything, then that would mean God could become weak. But if God became weak, then God would no longer be omnipotent. So you see, it is logically impossible for God to become weak and that means that God cannot literally – do anything.
 

danieldemol

Well-Known Member
Premium Member
After being in a sustained relationship or marriage for 15 years or 20, in the same house, a person will possibly learn that a time when there is an absence of trust -- distrust, the absence of 'faith' in the other person -- is a very difficult time, and I think most relationships wouldn't survive that for even a year, can't continue unless that distrust ends pretty soon.


It's the common wisdom that 'trust' is important in relationships, at least in the view of most people (and not only in the view of most women, but also in the view of many or perhaps even most men).
And my point is it’s possible to have faith in other people without having faith in God
 

1213

Well-Known Member
...
The first verse says that the righteous will go to eternal life and the second verse says that eternal life is a free gift, which would mean we do not have to do anything to get it, like being righteous...

It is not because of what we do, but what we are. If we are righteous, then we do righteous things. Works are only like a fruit that tells is the tree good or bad. Righteousness comes visible in actions, but actions don’t make anyone righteous.

He who does righteousness is righteous, even as he is righteous. He who sins is of the devil, for the devil has been sinning from the beginning. To this end the Son of God was revealed, that he might destroy the works of the devil. Whoever is born of God doesn't commit sin, because his seed remains in him; and he can't sin, because he is born of God. In this the children of God are revealed, and the children of the devil. Whoever doesn't do righteousness is not of God, neither is he who doesn't love his brother.
1 John 3:7-10
 

Trailblazer

Veteran Member
Quite right!

Still, the notion of a humanist god has its attractions.
God is a humanist because God loves humans and God emphasizes the value and agency of human beings, individually and collectively, and generally prefers critical thinking and evidence (rationalism and empiricism) over acceptance of dogma or superstition. :D

3: O SON OF MAN! Veiled in My immemorial being and in the ancient eternity of My essence, I knew My love for thee; therefore I created thee, have engraved on thee Mine image and revealed to thee My beauty.
The Hidden Words of Bahá’u’lláh, p. 4
 

ChristineM

"Be strong", I whispered to my coffee.
Premium Member
It is 1.

God is omnipotent but that does not mean God can do anything. It means that God is All-Powerful.

Omnipotence means all-powerful. ... Being omnipotent, God has power over wind, water, gravity, physics, etc. God's power is infinite, or limitless. Omniscience means all-knowing. God is all all-knowing in the sense that he is aware of the past, present, and future.

Omnipotent, Omniscient and Omnipresent God: Definition ...

“Omnipotent” derives from the Latin omnis meaning “all” and potens or “powerful.” Omnipotent is not a word used in the Bible, but “almighty” appears in virtually every book of the Old Testament, often dozens of times. El Shaddai, a Hebrew name for God, evokes His omnipotence as the Almighty. El Shaddai means God most powerful or God Almighty. What Does it Mean that God Is Omnipotent?

Question: "What does it mean that God is omnipotent?"

Answer: The word omnipotent comes from omni- meaning “all” and potent meaning “power.” As with the attributes of omniscience and omnipresence, it follows that, if God is infinite, and if He is sovereign, which we know He is, then He must also be omnipotent. He has all power over all things at all times and in all ways. What does it mean that God is omnipotent? | GotQuestions.org

God cannot do what it is not within His nature to do. For example, God cannot be evil because God is by nature good. God cannot become flesh because God is by nature Spirit. If God became flesh, then God would no longer be God, He would be a man. As a man, God would no longer be exalted beyond anything that can ever be recounted or perceived, which is who God is.

It is logically impossible for God to become evil or for God to become a man. If you think omnipotent means that God can do anything, then that would mean God could become weak. But if God became weak, then God would no longer be omnipotent. So you see, it is logically impossible for God to become weak and that means that God cannot literally – do anything.


Does logic work the same for mythology as for reasoned argument?

So god can do anything except the stuff he cant do. So not omnipotent thenl

Which god? The abrahamic god? As evil as they come, commits genocide because he does not like what he created. Kills innocent children, the worlds biggest abortionist, condones rape and slavery. You are welcome to him

And still power is energy over time.
 

halbhh

The wonder and awe of "all things".
And my point is it’s possible to have faith in other people without having faith in God
Of course.

Thomas was like that in the gospel account. Christ said to him that it's very blessed if a person can believe without seeing. The analogy to a relationship is whether one could believe one's spouse over the phone about some extraordinary communication, in a pinch, the kind that might happen once in 20 years or once in a lifetime. The reason 'faith' -- strong trust -- is of value in an eternal life is possibly getting more clear? It might need time to become more clear. I think it's somewhat subtle, at least at first.
 

Trailblazer

Veteran Member
According to the scripture about that very question, the intended outcome God desires is to see which people can trust Him *without* seeing Him, the goal called 'faith', which can be thought of as a strong form of trust. It's valued. Possibly because faith allows an intelligent being to sustain love and avoid conflict in a love relationship over very extended time periods (not merely years or merely decades), by hoping for the good even when its not visible at this instant, for example. So, 'faith' is the stated purpose/goal of life here -- for instance according to the words of Jesus of Nazareth -- to believe even without seeing.

So, if instead God simply became visible, then that would preempt the goal, prevent the sometimes accomplishment of the purpose of life here. That stated purpose includes to believe in God -- trust in the ultimate Good (without seeing) -- and to learn to love our neighbors as ourselves, even if they are not like us.
That is true, according to scripture:

Hebrews 11:6 And without faith it is impossible to please God, because anyone who approaches Him must believe that He exists and that He rewards those who earnestly seek Him.

That verse explains why God does not provide proof, because then we would not need faith.
However, I believe that God provides evidence, enough evidence such that we can confidently believe He exists.
 

Trailblazer

Veteran Member
Does logic work the same for mythology as for reasoned argument?

So god can do anything except the stuff he cant do. So not omnipotent thenl
God can DO anything but God cannot BE what God is NOT because then God would no longer be God. Logic 101.
Which god? The abrahamic god? As evil as they come, commits genocide because he does not like what he created. Kills innocent children, the worlds biggest abortionist, condones rape and slavery. You are welcome to him.
I am sorry you believe that stuff, I don't..
Then again, I am not a Christian so I do not believe everything in the Bible is an accurate representation of what God did or said.
 

ChristineM

"Be strong", I whispered to my coffee.
Premium Member
God can DO anything but God cannot BE what God is NOT because then God would no longer be God. Logic 101.

I am sorry you believe that stuff, I don't..
Then again, I am not a Christian so I do not believe everything in the Bible is an accurate representation of what God did or said.


You spoke of logic then say god can do anything but can't do everything, do you not see the logica fallacy in that statement?

The abrahamic god is not only the christian god, i did not mention the bible.
 

blü 2

Veteran Member
Premium Member
God is a humanist because God loves humans and God emphasizes the value and agency of human beings, individually and collectively, and generally prefers critical thinking and evidence (rationalism and empiricism) over acceptance of dogma or superstition. :D

3: O SON OF MAN! Veiled in My immemorial being and in the ancient eternity of My essence, I knew My love for thee; therefore I created thee, have engraved on thee Mine image and revealed to thee My beauty.
The Hidden Words of Bahá’u’lláh, p. 4
We can agree, perhaps, that one of the parties made the other party pretty much in his, her, its or their own image.
 

Earthtank

Active Member
This post is for both believers and atheists:
  • Believers: Do you think God cares how many people believe in Him?
  • Atheists: If God existed, do you think God would care how many people believe in Him?
Believers and atheists:
  • Do you think God cares if some people are atheists?
  • If God sent Messengers, would God care how many people believed in His Messengers?
  • If God sent a Messenger, would God have a certain time frame on how soon afterward people believed in His Messenger?

In my understanding of God, is that the answer in regards to does he care? The answer is no however, practicing, praying and other forms of worship are done so people can save themselves form "eternal damnation" and all that fiery scary stuff
 

Trailblazer

Veteran Member
You spoke of logic then say god can do anything but can't do everything, do you not see the logical fallacy in that statement?
God cannot BE what God is not because then God would not be God.
Likewise, a human cannot be a cat because then that human would no longer be a human.
I see the logic in that statement.
 

ChristineM

"Be strong", I whispered to my coffee.
Premium Member
God cannot BE what God is not because then God would not be God.
Likewise, a human cannot be a cat because then that human would no longer be a human.
I see the logic in that statement.

So not omnipotent then.

A human is never described as omnipotent

You see logic in saying god can do everything but cannot do something? Wow.
 

Trailblazer

Veteran Member
In my understanding of God, is that the answer in regards to does he care? The answer is no however, practicing, praying and other forms of worship are done so people can save themselves form "eternal damnation" and all that fiery scary stuff
Why is the answer no? o_O
 
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