COL 2:16 And The Sabbath - Are You Being Told The Truth?

74x12 said:

That's right. The new Covenant makes all Jews and gentiles (who are saved) equal to God as actual children of God. In other words as royalty. Sons and daughters of the King.

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The Anointed said:

Correct! There's no need for you to say anything else, you have said enough to convince everyone of who and what you are.

How long is 'THE DAY OF THE LORD'
And whose, is the DAY of the Lord?
Is it the DAY of Satan?

Revelation 20: 1-2; And I saw an angel coming down out of heaven, having the key to the Abyss and holding in his hand a great chain. He seized the dragon, that ancient serpent, who is the devil, or Satan, and bound him for a thousand years.

NO! Of course it is not the DAY of Satan.

It is 'THE LORD'S DAY' of one thousand years, in which he shall judge the whole world with Justice by means of a MAN he has CHOSEN. He has given proof of this to everyone by raising that MAN from death.This is the great day of rest from he who stands before God night and day accusing his brothers, the seventh day from the day in which Adam ate of the forbidden fruit and died in that day at the age of 930.

The Great Sabbath of our future, of which the weekly Sabbath was but a faint outline, or a shadow, as revealed by Paul in Colossians 2: 16.

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3rdAngel said:

There you go again mixing up "THE LORDS DAY with "THE DAY OF THE LORD. You do not it is different meaning and application right? There is no such thing as the great Sabbath.

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The Anointed said:

So when is the Lord's DAY?

And because you believe that the 'LORD'S DAY is a different DAY from 'THE DAY OF THE LORD,' How far away from the 'LORD'S DAY', do you believe that 'THE DAY OF THE LORD' is?

When is the DAY that the Lord God our Saviour has fixed in which he shall judge the whole world with justice by means of the MAN that he has CHOSEN. Which MAN he has risen from death, as proof of this?

Who are they, of the body of Christ, who are going to take the thrones that have been prepared for them, who have been given THE AUTHORITY TO JUDGE the whole world with Justice, and rule as Kings for one thousand years.

In Colossians 2: 16; Paul states that the Holy days, the New Moon Festival and the weekly Sabbath are only shadows (Or Faint outlines) of things in the future.

Please reveal, exactly what lays in our future, of which the weekly Sabbath was merely a faint outline pointing to that future event?

You will only keep digging yourself a deeper hole in which to hide, by continually denying the truth as revealed by God's obedient servants.

Nighty night mate.

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3rdAngel said:

Hi Redemptionsong, nice to see you again. Some comments for your consideration are provided below. It took me some time to prepare and study this. My prayer is that you may be patient and take some time to prayerfully read this in the spirit that it has been given (love) and that it might be a blessing to you brother.



My understanding of the scriptures brother is that we are only saved by GRACE through faith and not of ourselves it is a gift of God *EPHESIANS 2:8. OBEDIENCE to God's LAW is not how we are saved it is the FRUIT of God's work in us as we BELIEVE and FOLLOW his WORD by faith that works by LOVE. Salvation is from sin (breaking any one of God’s 10 Commandments) not to continue in sin *ROMANS 6:1-23; JOHN 8:31-36. Those who continue in known unrepentant sin do not know God and need to be Born again into the NEW COVENANT promise to love *HEBREWS 8:10-12; ROMANS 13:8-10. This is God's work in us and a part of the NEW COVENANT promise *HEBREWS 8:10-12; PHILIPPIANS 2:13. If our faith has no fruit it is dead *JAMES 2:18-20; 26 and our tree will be cast down and thrown into the fire *MATTHEW 3:10; 7:19-20; 13:49-50.



Jesus is telling us about the priests of the old covenant not the new and MATTHEW 12:1-12 is teaching that it is lawful to do good on the Sabbath. We can therefore do God's work and do good on the Sabbath. This does not mean we can do our own work and break the Sabbath by not resting that would be sin as sin is defined as breaking Gods LAW. The Sabbath was made for man not man for the Sabbath and JESUS is the creator of it *Mark 2:27-28; John 1:1-4; 14.



Actually no that is not true but here is the reason why from the scriptures. Firstly you were provided four sources showing that LOVE fulfills and establishes Gods LAW and is expressed through obedience to God's law and is a part of the new covenant promise to love in HEBREWS 8:10-12 (from Jeremiah 31:31-34). John 13:34 is in reference to the same scriptures that were provided to you earlier not separate from them as before the new covenant promise no one had ever loved another like JESUS loved us. Let's go through the scriptures in detail as sometimes it helps if we see exactly what they say...

LOVE IS EXPRESSED THROUGH GOD'S LAW NOT OUTSIDE OF GOD'S LAW

The two great commandments of love....

MATTHEW 22:36-40 [36] Master, which is the great commandment in the law?
[37], Jesus said to him, You shall love the Lord your God with all your heart, and with all your soul, and with all your mind. [38], This is the first and great commandment. [39], And the second is like to it, You shall love your neighbour as yourself. [40], ON THESE TWO COMMANDMENTS HANG ALL THE LAW AND THE PROPHETS.

Paul is saying the same thing here in our duty of love to our neighbore...

ROMANS 13:8-10 [8], Owe no man anything, but to LOVE ONE ANOTHER: for HE THAT LOVES ANOTHER HAS FULFILLED THE LAW. [9], FOR THIS, THOU SHALT NOT COMMIT ADULTERY, THOU SHALT NOT KILL, THOU SHALT NOT STEAL, THOU SHALT NOT LIE, THOU SHALT NOT COVET; and IF THERE SHALL BE ANY OTHER COMMANDMENT, it is briefly SUMMED UP in this saying, namely, THOU SHALT LOVE THY NEIGHBOR AS THYSELF. [10], Love works no ill to his neighbor: therefore LOVE IS THE FULFILLING OF THE LAW.

Notice above the application of how we love our neighbore is expressed in obedience to God's law..
James says the same thing here as JESUS and Paul...

JAMES 2:8-12 [8] If you fulfill the royal law according to the scripture, You shall love your neighbor as yourself [Sums up our duty of love in the 10 Commandments Romans 13:9] , you do well: [9], But if you have respect to persons, you commit sin, and are convicted of the law as transgressors. [10], For whosoever shall keep the whole law, and yet offend in one point, he is guilty of all. [11], For he that said, Do not commit adultery, said also, Do not kill. Now if you commit no adultery, yet you kill, you are become a transgressor of the law. [12], So speak, and so do, as they that shall be judged by the law of liberty.

James is using the second great commandment of LOVE which hangs all the commandments of our duty of love to our neighbour and quotes the commandments showing our duty towards our neighbor. This is why Jesus says “On these two commandments hang ALL THE LAW and the prophets” Matthew 22:40. and again this is what JESUS teaches when he says...

JOHN 14:15 [15], IF YOU LOVE ME KEEP MY COMMANDMENTS.

You cannot separate LOVE from God’s LAW. Love is the FULFILLING of it and is demonstrated by OBEDIENCE to Gods’ LAW as our duty of LOVE to God and man. [“On these two commandments [of LOVE] hang ALL THE LAW and the prophets]

This is leading to the NEW COVENANT PROMISE of a NEW HEART to LOVE *HEBREWS 8:10-12; JOHN 5:42; 1 JOHN 5:17-19; 1 JOHN 4:16; 1 JOHN 5:3; 1 JOHN 4:8. We do not have the LOVE of GOD in us *JOHN 5:42. We need to be BORN OF GOD to LOVE *1 JOHN 4:7 and partake of the NEW COVENANT promise.
This is why JESUS teaches in *JOHN 3:3-7 that UNLESS we are made CLEAN from the INSIDE OUT and BORN AGAIN to LOVE we cannot enter the KINGDOM of HEAVEN.

This is what JESUS is talking about in MATTHEW 5:20 when discussing the Scribes and the Pharisees teaching the application of God's LAW from the INSIDE OUT. Whosoever is BORN of GOD to LOVE in the NEW COVENANT *HEBREWS 8:10-12 does not commit SIN *1 JOHN 3:9; ROMANS 13:8-10; JAMES 2:8-12; ROMANS 3:31; MATTHEW 22:36-40.

This is the GOOD NEWS of the Gospels in the NEW COVENANT we have a SAVIOUR to save us from sin (not in sin) but we have to be made new to walk in God's Spirit *GALATIANS 5:16; ROMANS 8:1-4.
1 JOHN 3:3-10 is talking about all those who are BORN AGAIN to LOVE and it is LOVE that fulfills God's LAW in all those who BELIEVE and FOLLOW God's WORD in the NEW COVENANT *HEBREWS 8:10-12; ROMANS 13:8-10.

This results in a people that keep God's LAW (10 commandments) from the INSIDE OUT. *REVELATION 14:12; REVELATION 22:14; 1 JOHN 2:3-4; 1 JOHN 3:3-10; ROMANS 13:8-10; ROMANS 3:31; HEBREWS 8:10-12

If we LOVE our neighbor...

* We will honor our parents,
* We will not kill them
* We will not commit adultery with thier spouse
* We will not steal from them
* We will not lie to them
* We will not covet what they own.

If we LOVE our God...

* We will not have other Gods
* We will not make idols and worship them
* We will not take his name [follow] him in vain
* We will remember his Sabbath and keep it holy.

ON THESE TWO COMMANDMENTS [OF LOVE] HANG ALL THE LAW AND THE PROPHETS.

It is true as you say though no one can keep anyone of God's 10 Commandments unless they have been given a new heart to LOVE and have been born again. This is God's work in all those who believe and follow his Word.

Hope this is helpful

May you receive God's Word and be blessed.

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Redemptionsong said:

3rdAngel, I do not have a problem with what God says in his Word. I do sometimes have a problem with the way you interpret that Word!

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Redemptionsong said:

Let's see if we can tease out our differences. I want to know what divides us, not what we agree upon!

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Redemptionsong said:

Do you think that I, as a born-again believer, should stop work on a Friday at 6pm (or maybe earlier for preparation)? Would you also like me to have a Sabbath meal with my family on Friday night, then go to church on Saturday morning? I'm interested to know what it is that you visualise 'an obedient Christian' as doing on the Sabbath. Have you worked out what it is that constitutes 'work' and 'rest'? You need to do this if you are going to be obedient to the law. Once the Sabbath is over, what happens then? Am I allowed to profane all the other days of the week?

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3rdAngel said:

Indeed yet I have shown from the scriptures that what I have shared with you is the truth. What is it that you have a problem with what I share with you? If you are not able to show from the scriptures that there is a problem then perhaps there is no problem with what has been shared with you.



They are no mutually exclusive as unification in the body of Christ is only in through faith in the Word of God *John 6:63; John 10:17; John 17:17



It is not what I think that is important brother it is what God's Word says as only those who believe and follow Gods' Word are God's Sheep *John 10:1-10; John 26:27.

We are only saved by GRACE through faith and not of ourselves it is a gift of God *EPHESIANS 2:8. OBEDIENCE to God's LAW is not how we are saved it is the FRUIT of God's work in us as we BELIEVE and FOLLOW his WORD by faith that works by LOVE. Salvation is from sin (breaking any one of God’s 10 Commandments) not to continue in sin *ROMANS 6:1-23; JOHN 8:31-36.

Those who continue in known unrepentant sin do not know God and need to be Born again into the NEW COVENANT promise to love *HEBREWS 8:10-12; ROMANS 13:8-10. This is God's work in us and a part of the NEW COVENANT promise *HEBREWS 8:10-12; PHILIPPIANS 2:13. If our faith has no fruit it is dead *JAMES 2:18-20; 26 and our tree will be cast down and thrown into the fire *MATTHEW 3:10; 7:19-20; 13:49-50.

God's 4th Commandment is one of God's 10 Commandments that give us the knowledge of what sin is when it is broken *Romans 3:20; Romans 7:7; 1 John 3:4 and just like any of the other 10 commandments if we break any one of them we stand guilty before God of sin *James 2:10-11.

Jesus says if you love me you will keep his commandments *John 14:15. Those who have been given a new heart to love hear his Voice (the Word of God) and follow him because they love him.

If you love God and wish to follow what God says by keeping God's 4th Commandment than God's Word teaches us how to follow him and calls us in love to love another.

HOW DO WE KEEP THE SABBATH?

WHAT DOES GOD'S 4TH COMMANDMENT SAY?

EXODUS 20:8-11
[8], Remember the SABBATH DAY, to KEEP IT HOLY. <Why?> Because God made it Holy for mankind and commands us to keep it as a Holy day)
[9], Six days shalt thou labor, and do all thy work:
[10], But the SEVENTH DAY IS THE SABBATH of the LORD thy God: in it thou shalt not do any work, thou, nor thy son, nor thy daughter, thy manservant, nor thy maidservant, nor thy cattle, nor thy stranger that is within thy gates: <WHY>
[11], For in six days the LORD made heaven and earth, the sea, and all that in them is, and rested the SEVENTH DAY: wherefore the LORD BLESSED THE SABBATH, and HALLOWED IT.

WHAT DAY IS GOD'S SABBATH?

v10 The SEVENTH DAY of the week. (Saturday)

WHEN DOES THE SEVENTH DAY OF THE WEEK START?

GENESIS 1:4-5
[4], And God saw the light, that it was good: and God divided the light from the darkness.
[5], And God called the light Day, and the darkness he called Night. And the evening and the morning were the first day.

A day in God's time is the night (darkness) and the light make up one day. The DAY in God's WORD starts at SUNSET and ends the following SUNSET. So God's 4th Commandment Sabbath would start Friday at SUNSET and end Saturday at SUNSET.

ALL UNECCESSARY WORK TO BE DONE BEFORE FRIDAY SUNSET

EXODUS 16:22-23
[22], And it came to pass, that on the sixth day they gathered twice as much bread, two omers for one man: and all the rulers of the congregation came and told Moses.
[23], And he said to them, This is that which the LORD has said, To morrow is the rest of the holy sabbath to the LORD: bake that which you will bake to day, and seethe that you will seethe; and that which remains over lay up for you to be kept until the morning.

MARK 15:42, And now when the even was come, because it was the preparation, that is, the day before the sabbath

The preparation day is the 6th day of the week. This includes preparing to stop all business and secular work as well as any domestic work; cooking, cleaning; shopping, buying and selling that can be done on any other day of the week.

IT IS LAWFUL TO DO GOOD ON THE SABBATH?

MATTHEW 12:5-12
[5], Or have you not read in the law, how that on the sabbath days the priests in the temple profane the sabbath, and are blameless?
[6], But I say to you, That in this place is one greater than the temple.
[7], But if you had known what this means, I will have mercy, and not sacrifice, you would not have condemned the guiltless.
[8], For the Son of man is Lord even of the sabbath day
[9], And when he was departed from there, he went into their synagogue:
[10], And, behold, there was a man who had his hand withered. And they asked him, saying, Is it lawful to heal on the sabbath days? that they might accuse him.
[11], And he said unto them, What man shall there be among you, that shall have one sheep, and if it fall into a pit on the sabbath day, will he not lay hold on it, and lift it out?
[12], How much then is a man better than a sheep? Therefore it is lawful to do well on the sabbath days.

MARK 2:27, And he said unto them, The sabbath was made for man, and not man for the sabbath

It is lawful to do good on the Sabbath.

WHAT IS LAWFUL ON GOD'S SABBATH?

1. Remembering the creator and his creation (Exod 20:8-11)
2. Rest from all unnecessary work (Ecodus 20:10-11)
3. Doing good (Matt 12:12)
4. Prayer (Acts 16:13; Matt 21:13)
5. Worship the creator (Isaiah 58:13-14; Ex 34:14; 1KING 9:6; Rev 14:6-12)

Song, praise, bible study, helping others, preaching the gospel, resting, prayer, seeking God, remembering the creator and his creation. Walking in nature, going to church with like minded believers. (too many scriptures)

WHAT IS NOT LAWFUL ON GOD'S SABBATH?

WORK; all business and secular work as well as any domestic work; cooking, cleaning; shopping, buying and selling that can be done on any other day of the week and anything to do with work (Exodus 20:8-11; Ex 16:22-23; Matt 21:13).

.............

There is no purpose in FOLLOWING any of God's LAWs including the SABBATH if it is NOT done through FAITH that works by LOVE because it is ONLY as GOD writes his LAW to LOVE then we can take up our beds to follow him. LOVE is the fulfilling of GOd's LAW in those who BELIEVE (Rom 13:8-10)

God bless.

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Redemptionsong said:

Hi 3rdAngel,
I agree that God's love is the fulfilling of the law. Why, therefore, do you try to justify yourself through the law (which you have quoted to me above - Exodus 20/16)?

This is what it says in Galatians 5:4: 'Christ is become of no effect unto you, whosoever of you are justified by the law; ye are fallen from grace. For we through the Spirit wait for the hope of righteousness by faith.'

May I also point out how your interpretation of scripture is clearly in error. You say the 'preparation' day (Mark 15:42) is a reference to Friday. In fact, if you follow the use of the word 'preparation' (Gk.paraskeue) you'll discover that all six references are to the preparations made for Pesach, Passover. The preparation day is not a preparation for the weekly Sabbath, but for the (first) Passover Sabbath (See Exodus 12:16).

May the light of the Lord's countenance shine upon you!

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Redemptionsong said:

May I also point out how your interpretation of scripture is clearly in error. You say the 'preparation' day (Mark 15:42) is a reference to Friday. In fact, if you follow the use of the word 'preparation' (Gk.paraskeue) you'll discover that all six references are to the preparations made for Pesach, Passover. The preparation day is not a preparation for the weekly Sabbath, but for the (first) Passover Sabbath (See Exodus 12:16).
May the light of the Lord's countenance shine upon you!

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3rdAngel said:

Not accordning to the scriptures brother.

Mark 15:42 And now when the even was come, because it was the preparation, that is, the day before the sabbath.

Luke 23:54 And that day was the preparation, and the sabbath drew on.

Feel free to google any Jewish site on the subject of the preparation day before the Sabbath as they have been keeping the Sabbath for 1000's of years.

God bless

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The Anointed said:

Mark 15: 42; And now when the even was come, because it was the preparation, that is, the day before the erroneous Jewish Passover, which they held on the evening of the 15th day of Nisan, which is the first day of the seven day festival of Unleavened Bread, which seven day festival, according to God's word was to held after the day of Passover, which began in the evening and beginning of the one day festival of Passover, the time that Jesus ate the Passover with his disciples before he was arrested, on the night of the 14th day of Nisan.

The first day and the last day of the festival of unleavened Bread, were holy Sabbaths on which no work could be done. The Most high Sabbath that followed the death of Jesus on Wednesday the 14th day of Nisan, was not the normal weekly seventh day Sabbath, which according to Paul was but a faint outline or shadow of the future reality, which is the thousand year rule of Christ on the seventh Day from the day in which Adam ate of the forbidden fruit and died in that DAY at the age of 930.

May God one day lead you into the truth.

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MJFlores said:

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3rdAngel said:

Thank you and this is what has been shared here in this OP. Well here we go so you now admit that the annual feast days have special sabbaths that are not God's 4th commandment as shown in the OP? This is a good start. There were special sabbaths in the feast days that could fall on any day of the week. That does not mean that there was not a preparation day every week for God's 4th commandment weekly Sabbath. The day before every weekly Sabbath is the preparation day or the day to get ready for the Sabbath.

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The Anointed said:

Sorry son, but the DAY of preparation on which Jesus died, was not the DAY of preparation to the normal seventh weekly day Sabbath, but the Most High Sabbath of the first day of the seven DAY festival of Unleavened Bread that fell on Thursday. Or are you also trying to convince God's children that Jesus lied when he said that he would be in the bowels of the earth for three days and three nights.

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3rdAngel said:

Not at all and also not the point so no need to be sorry. You already made the point of the OP in your previous post, when discussing the shadow sabbaths in feast days from Colossians 2:16-17 which are not God's 4th commandment. Now that we are in agreement what excuse have you now to break God's 4th commandment which is one of God's 10 commandments that give us the knowledge of what sin is when it is broken *Romans 3:20? If you have no excuse why do you not believe and follow God's Word? Only God's Word is true and we should believe and follow it over the teachings and traditions of men that break the commandments of God *Matthew 15:3-9

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3rdAngel said:

Now that we are in agreement what excuse have you now to break God's 4th commandment which is one of God's 10 commandments that give us the knowledge of what sin is when it is broken *Romans 3:20? If you have no excuse why do you not believe and follow God's Word? Only God's Word is true and we should believe and follow it over the teachings and traditions of men that break the commandments of God *Matthew 15:3-9

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The Anointed said:

Sorry mate, but I agree with Paul, who said in Colossians 2:16; "Let no one make rules about what you eat or drink or about holy days or about the new moon festival or the Sabbath. (Singular---Sabbath) For all such things are but a shadow of things in the future, etc. That's why we don't bother holding the Passover festival, because we know that the future reality of that festival, is when the angel of death passes over the earth in the day of the great tribulation, that precedes the Great Sabbath of one thousand years, which is the future reality of the weekly Sabbath. The great tribulation, when, if not for the intervention of the Lord, no flesh would survive, but for the sake of his elect and chosen ones, who have been sprinkled with the blood of the lamb, those days will be cut short.

And you reveal your ignorance to the scriptures once again by suggesting that the day of preparation on which Jesus died, was the day before the weekly Sabbath.

Perhaps one Day, the truths as revealed in the Words of the Lord, will be revealed to you.

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Crosstian said:

MJFlores still cannot seem to understand the difference between that which is God's (masculine), "my sabbaths", which is the 7th day of the week from Creation, part of the Law of God (10C; Exodus 20:8-11), and that which were theirs, "[your] sabbaths", (feminine) "her sabbaths", which took place in years as part of the yearly feasts and 7th and 50th years (Lev. 23-25). Once Jesus died, there was no more need for the typical yearly, yet He died to uphold and magnify God's Law (10C), Isaiah 42:21, being eternal.

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