syo
Well-Known Member
Are the Apostles liars? They are not Jesus, but still they seem trustworthy?
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If God exists, would God care how many people believe in Him?
- Thread starter Trailblazer
- Start date
I don't know.
I doubt it, I believe a more likely explanation is that the followers of the Apostles wrote down what they thought the Apostles were teaching.
But that doesn't square with the claim that Paul was an Apostle.
What do you mean by apostle, if it includes Paul? And since he is quoted extensively in the NT, and Jesus is represented only by anonymous writers, who really founded what we now call Christianity?
I'd say Paul.
Tom
epronovost
Well-Known Member
That's a very, very low bar to clear.
Something does not need to be written in a text to be true.
Suggest a better one that demonstrates God cares if you can.
epronovost
Well-Known Member
I don't think there is anything like a deity and if there were a creature that could be called deity. It clearly doesn't care about human's life, desire and dreams anymore than it cares about that of lions or lemmings.
A King would be bothered if someone lives in his Kingdom without acknowledging that; he is the king. This is ingratitude/ lack of respect and homage.
Trailblazer
Veteran Member
That is true, and God could prove He exists to EVERYONE and make all men believers IF He wanted to.
Baha'u'llah wrote that.
I have probably posted this to atheists about 100 times on my forum and here, but what the heck...
“He Who is the Day Spring of Truth is, no doubt, fully capable of rescuing from such remoteness wayward souls and of causing them to draw nigh unto His court and attain His Presence. “If God had pleased He had surely made all men one people.” His purpose, however, is to enable the pure in spirit and the detached in heart to ascend, by virtue of their own innate powers, unto the shores of the Most Great Ocean, that thereby they who seek the Beauty of the All-Glorious may be distinguished and separated from the wayward and perverse. Thus hath it been ordained by the all-glorious and resplendent Pen…”
Gleanings From the Writings of Bahá’u’lláh, p. 71
In the context of the passage above, If God had pleased He had surely made all men one people it means that God could have made all people believers, but IF God has pleased, implies that God did not want to make all people into believers, verified by the fact that not all men are believers. The passage goes on to say why God didn’t want to make us believers... In short, God wants us to do our own homework and become believers by our own efforts (by virtue of their own innate powers).
Trailblazer
Veteran Member
God is not human so God does not have an ego.
Being made in the image of God means humans have the potential to reflect the attributes of God such as
Benevolent, Compassionate, Loving, Gracious, Merciful, Just, Forgiving, and Patient.
No, I do not think God cares if there are atheists because God does not need any believers at all.
Whether God wants believers or how many is another matter and I do not think anyone can know that.
God knows that at least one person will believe in His new Messenger and then the Messenger will gather disciples and from there it will spread to other people gradually over time.
So that would explain why not many people believe in these Messengers, at least not at first, and for a long time afterwards.
But eventually more and more people recognize them.
God could offer clear evidence but He doesn't. Obviously He must have His reasons...
Nobody blames the ignorer. They just fail to get the messages.
That is true, and God could prove He exists to EVERYONE and make all men believers IF He wanted to.
Baha'u'llah wrote that.
I have probably posted this to atheists about 100 times on my forum and here, but what the heck...
“He Who is the Day Spring of Truth is, no doubt, fully capable of rescuing from such remoteness wayward souls and of causing them to draw nigh unto His court and attain His Presence. “If God had pleased He had surely made all men one people.” His purpose, however, is to enable the pure in spirit and the detached in heart to ascend, by virtue of their own innate powers, unto the shores of the Most Great Ocean, that thereby they who seek the Beauty of the All-Glorious may be distinguished and separated from the wayward and perverse. Thus hath it been ordained by the all-glorious and resplendent Pen…”
Gleanings From the Writings of Bahá’u’lláh, p. 71
In the context of the passage above, If God had pleased He had surely made all men one people it means that God could have made all people believers, but IF God has pleased, implies that God did not want to make all people into believers, verified by the fact that not all men are believers. The passage goes on to say why God didn’t want to make us believers... In short, God wants us to do our own homework and become believers by our own efforts (by virtue of their own innate powers).
Still waiting.
In short, you can read the mind if your god? Surely that tells you something.
Trailblazer
Veteran Member
I think that God cares about humans; otherwise God would not have created humans.
I believe that God created humans out of Love...
3: O SON OF MAN! Veiled in My immemorial being and in the ancient eternity of My essence, I knew My love for thee; therefore I created thee, have engraved on thee Mine image and revealed to thee My beauty.
4: O SON OF MAN! I loved thy creation, hence I created thee. Wherefore, do thou love Me, that I may name thy name and fill thy soul with the spirit of life.
The Hidden Words of Bahá’u’lláh, p. 4
However, whether God cares how many people believe in Him is another question altogether....
I do not think we can know the answer but it is fun to toss around for discussion.
Trailblazer
Veteran Member
Trailblazer
Veteran Member
I agree with all of that except I do not think that most people choose to suffer. A few people might, they are called masochists. The rest of the people suffer for any number of reasons, many of which are outside of their control. In short, I believe that this material world is a storehouse of suffering.
“O thou seeker of the Kingdom! Thy letter was received. Thou hast written of the severe calamity that hath befallen thee—the death of thy respected husband. That honourable man hath been so subjected to the stress and strain of this world that his greatest wish was for deliverance from it. Such is this mortal abode: a storehouse of afflictions and suffering. It is ignorance that binds man to it, for no comfort can be secured by any soul in this world, from monarch down to the most humble commoner. If once this life should offer a man a sweet cup, a hundred bitter ones will follow; such is the condition of this world. The wise man, therefore, doth not attach himself to this mortal life and doth not depend upon it; at some moments, even, he eagerly wisheth for death that he may thereby be freed from these sorrows and afflictions. Thus it is seen that some, under extreme pressure of anguish, have committed suicide.”
Selections From the Writings of ‘Abdu’l-Bahá, p. 200
Selections From the Writings of ‘Abdu’l-Bahá, p. 200
I agree with the quote above, except for this part: no comfort can be secured by any soul in this world, from monarch down to the most humble commoner. I disagree with that because obviously some people find comfort and many people are comfortable most of the time. All we need to do is ask people to know that most people are happy most of the time, psychological studies show that. People who are depressed are in the minority.
Some people seem to escape much suffering and others suffer for their entire lives. This does not seem like a just God that allows this arrangement, but I try to accept that there are many things I do not know. I definitely believe that suffering will come to an end at the end of this life, if we followed God's will in this life, but that does not negate the inordinate suffering some people have to endure until they die and enter the spiritual world.
Trailblazer
Veteran Member
If you are waiting, it would do no harm to say some prayers while you are waiting, is what I tell my atheist friends who say they are waiting... Kind of like reading a magazine while you wait at the doctor's office.
If they are not waiting and don't even care, there is no reason to say any prayers.
No, I don't, nobody does, not even the Messengers of God know the Mind of God...
They just get communication from God and turn that into words we can understand, like what I quoted.
If you are waiting, it would do no harm to say some prayers while you are waiting, is what I tell my atheist friends who say they are waiting... Kind of like reading a magazine while you wait at the doctor's office.
If they are not waiting and don't even care, there is no reason to say any prayers.
No, I don't, nobody does, not even the Messengers of God know the Mind of God...
They just get communication from God and turn that into words we can understand, like what I quoted.
This is why i prefer to get off my butt and actually do something rather than wasting my time praying to a myth
So you dont read your gods mind, you wait for someone else to read your gods mind then follow them. Cool
Trailblazer
Veteran Member
No, of course not. I either exist or not. It is the same with God. How many people *believe* that God exists doe not change the fact that God exists, if God exists.
I agree. If God did not care, God would not have sent Messengers to lend guidance to humans.
I believe that one reason God sent Messengers was to explain the purpose of our existence.
I do not believe that God seeks companionship with humans or that we can have companionship with God.
I believe that God wants us to love Him so we can feel a connection to Him, for our sake, not for His.
4: O SON OF MAN! I loved thy creation, hence I created thee. Wherefore, do thou love Me, that I may name thy name and fill thy soul with the spirit of life.
5: O SON OF BEING! Love Me, that I may love thee. If thou lovest Me not, My love can in no wise reach thee. Know this, O servant.
The Hidden Words of Bahá’u’lláh, p. 4
God does not have needs like humans have needs because God is exalted above all created things and independent of them. That does not mean god does not care about humans, but not for His own sake, but rather for theirs.
“Regard thou the one true God as One Who is apart from, and immeasurably exalted above, all created things. The whole universe reflecteth His glory, while He is Himself independent of, and transcendeth His creatures. This is the true meaning of Divine unity.” Gleanings From the Writings of Bahá’u’lláh, p. 167
Trailblazer
Veteran Member
I get your point about the disasters and I agree. Why say prayers after the fact?
The context for which I was suggesting prayers was before the fact.
Nobody can read God's Mind. God reveals what He chooses to reveal to the Minds of the Messengers.
Then I read what they wrote and try to follow them.
Salvador
RF's Swedenborgian
Our genetic code's Creator embedded its/their mark of intelligence in life's genetic coding. The scientists at the Fesenkov Astrophysica Institute who have discovered the mathematical and semantic message of 037 embedded in our genetic code have concluded "it appears that genetic coding was invented outside the solar system already several billions years ago."
Reference:
The "Wow! signal" of the terrestrial genetic code shCherbak, Vladimir I.; Makukov, Maxim A. Icarus, Volume 224, Issue 1, p. 228-242. May 2013
http://earth-chronicles.ru/Publications_12/35/64182102-1-s2.0-s0019103513000791-main.pdf
If life's genetic code were invented outside the solar system, then this would be prima facie evidence that life's genetic code was designed by an extraterrestrial intelligent designer.
We humans like to use base ten math because the number ten happens to match each typical person's complement of ten figures. Please allow me to posit that our genetic code's creator would be biased towards base ten math for the very same reason we like using base ten math.
Imo, the most intriguing fact of our universe is how the numeric and semantic message of "037" that's been embedded in our genetic coding by our Creator gets conveyed to me who computes with a base 10 numeric system.
This is evident to me by how each codon relates to 3 other particular codons having the same particular type of initial nucleobase and sequential nucleobase subsequently then followed by a different ending nucleobase. Half of these 4 set of codon groups ( whole family codons ) each code for the same particular amino acid. The other half of those 4 set of codon groups ( split codons ) don't code for the same amino acid. So then, in the case of whole family codons, there are 37 amino acid peptide chain nucleons for each relevant nucleobase determinant of how a particular amino acid gets coded. Start codons express 0 at the beginning of 37 Hence, the meaningful numeric and semantic message of 037 gets unambiguously and factually conveyed to us present day Earthling human beings with our genetic code invented by a superior intelligence beyond that of anybody presently bound to Earth.
The significance of the semantic message "037" embedded in our genetic coding is well-explained in the following journal articles: .
Biosystems Volume 70, Issue 3, August 2003, Pages 187-209 "Arithmetic inside the universal genetic code" Author: Vladimir I. shCherbak
https://www.sciencedirect.com/science/ar...4703000662
NeuroQuantology | December 2011 | Vol 9 | Issue 4 | Page 702-715 Masic, Natasa Nested Properties of shCherbak’s PQ 037 and (Biological) Coding/Computing Nested Numeric/Geometric/Arithmetic Propertiesof shCherbak’s Prime Quantum 037 as a Base of (Biological) Coding/Computing
https://www.researchgate.net/public...m_037_as_a_Base_of_Biological_CodingComputing
In conclusion, our genetic code's creator's semantic and numeric message of "037" embedded in our genetic coding does not reveal much about our genetic code's creator's attributes, besides the fact that it/they understand base ten mathematics and computations.
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MonkeyFire
Well-Known Member
He must have the majority of living things on his side without counting past infinity.
Salvador
RF's Swedenborgian
A precise definition of "God" would indeed be most useful in any discussions about what/how "God" thinks.