COL 2:16 And The Sabbath - Are You Being Told The Truth?

3rdAngel said:

Now as posted through the scriptures earlier and shown through God's Word alone in the OP and the questions asked of you, God's Word alone shows why you who are in error brother but you deny God's Word with yours and do not believe it. So your argument is with God not me. I do not judge you brother you are free to believe and do as you wish as we are all only held accountable to God, but ignoring God's Word does not make it dissappear. It will be our judge come judgment day *John 12:47-48. You have no excuse for not sharing the scriptures that are shared with you which are Gods not mine.

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Posting scripture out of the context for which they were intended does not make your erroneous beliefs correct.

Paul said in Col 2: 16 that the weekly Sabbath was but a faint outline or a shadow of the future reality, and that future reality is the day of the Lord, the seventh day from the day in which Adam ate of the forbidden fruit and died in that day at the age of 930.

The great Sabbath of one thousand years, in which we will have peace under the rulership of our brother Jesus, whom God has made our King and High priest, Hebrew 5: 5; for Jesus did not take upon himself the honour of being high priest, instead, God said to him; "You are my son, TODAY I have become your Father. . . . . . . .And God declared him to be high priest, in the priestly order of Melchizedek. (King and High Priest)

Acts 17: 31; For He (The Lord God our savior) has fixed a day in which he shall judge the whole world with justice by means of a MAN he has CHOSEN. He has given proof of this to everyone by raising that MAN from death.

Now kick back and relax young fellow and you have yourself a good day.

The Anointed said:

Posting scripture out of the context for which they were intended does not make your erroneous beliefs correct.

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Well brother this is only a false statement not based by fact or truth and only applies to you because you have no provided any context but cherry pick scripture out of context to make it say things that it is not saying. This is proven through God's Word not mine which provides context you leave out of your interpretation of the scriptures provided in post # 6; posts # 7; posts # 8; posts # 9 and posts # 10 linked from the OP as they prove that Colossians 2:11-17 is not talking about God's 10 Commandments but the shadow laws from the Mosaic book of the old covenant in ordinances that pointed to JESUS and God's plan of salvation in the new covenant and feast days.

The Anointed said:

Paul said in Col 2: 16 that the weekly Sabbath was but a faint outline or a shadow of the future reality, and that future reality is the day of the Lord, the seventh day from the day in which Adam ate of the forbidden fruit and died in that day at the age of 930.

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Paul says no such thing as shown in post # 6; posts # 7; posts # 8; posts # 9 and posts # 10 linked from the OP as they prove that Colossians 2:11-17 is not talking about God's 10 Commandments but the shadow laws from the Mosaic book of the old covenant in ordinances that pointed to JESUS and God's plan of salvation in the new covenant and feast days.

Let me know when you want to discuss the scriptures.

3rdAngel said:

Well brother this is only a false statement not based by fact or truth and only applies to you because you have no provided any context but cherry pick scripture out of context to make it say things that it is not saying. This is proven through God's Word not mine which provides context you leave out of your interpretation of the scriptures provided in post # 6; posts # 7; posts # 8; posts # 9 and posts # 10 linked from the OP as they prove that Colossians 2:11-17 is not talking about God's 10 Commandments but the shadow laws from the Mosaic book of the old covenant in ordinances that pointed to JESUS and God's plan of salvation in the new covenant and feast days.

Paul says no such thing as shown in post # 6; posts # 7; posts # 8; posts # 9 and posts # 10 linked from the OP as they prove that Colossians 2:11-17 is not talking about God's 10 Commandments but the shadow laws from the Mosaic book of the old covenant in ordinances that pointed to JESUS and God's plan of salvation in the new covenant and feast days.

Let me know when you want to discuss the scriptures.

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Puleeeeessee, You, who have proven yourself to be the greatest fruit picker of this forum, have the audacity to say that someone else is cherry picking scripture.

So, you reject Hebrew 10: 1; which states that the Jewish law, which includes the Sabbath law, is not a full and faithful model of the real thing, it is only a faint outline of things to come.

The Author of the book of Hebrew, who many believe was Paul, agrees with Col 2: 16; which states that the weekly Sabbath was but a shadow (a faint outline) of the reality that even to this day is still in our future.

I believe that anyone with insight, can understand from this, that the true Sabbath, the Lord's day, is still in our future.

When do you think the Lord's day of one thousand years, will begin?

But you don't want to think about the future reality of the weekly Sabbath, do you?

Well, some of my grand children and great grand children will soon be here for the weekend, and today, which is the weekly Sabbath, we intent to take the boat out and bring home some fish, most probably sharks, which have no scales as they are most prominent around our beaches, and some crustaceans for supper, yum, yum.

Enjoy your weekend as I intend to do.

The Anointed said:

Puleeeeessee, You, who have proven yourself to be the greatest fruit picker of this forum, have the audacity to say that someone else is cherry picking scripture.

So, you reject Hebrew 10: 1; which states that the Jewish law, which includes the Sabbath law, is not a full and faithful model of the real thing, it is only a faint outline of things to come.

The Author of the book of Hebrew, who many believe was Paul, agrees with Col 2: 16; which states that the weekly Sabbath was but a shadow (a faint outline) of the reality that even to this day is still in our future.

I believe that anyone with insight, can understand from this, that the true Sabbath, the Lord's day, is still in our future.

When do you think the Lord's day of one thousand years, will begin?

But you don't want to think about the future reality of the weekly Sabbath, do you?

Well, some of my grand children and great grand children will soon be here for the weekend, and today, which is the weekly Sabbath, we intent to take the boat out and bring home some fish, most probably sharks, which have no scales as they are most prominent around our beaches, and some crustaceans for supper, yum, yum.

Enjoy your weekend as I intend to do.

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Your words have no truth in them but are simply your words denying God's. I see you still have no scripture for your claims so I will leave this between you and God to work through as your argument is between you and God whose word you deny not me and you.

We will have to agree to disagree. I believe only God's Word is true and we should believe and follow it over man made teachings and traditions that break the commandments of God....

Lets' finish our discussion with a parable to think about. Do you know the scriptures the parable is made from?

A PARABLE

Some were told by the one who knows all things; Hearing you shall hear, and shall not understand; and seeing you shall see, and not perceive: this was because those hearing made themselves a hardened heart that said "Lo this word is not for me who can hear it? I am rich and increased with goods and have need of nothing".

Travelling along the way those who would not hear fell into the ditch they call delusion that all fall into that kick against the pricks because they lost their mirror that shows the way when the path is dark and narrow.

Their lamp was a guide to them but they did not have enough oil. Their lamp then went out and now they sit in darkness falling into the dtich they cannot find their way out.

Some travellers in the way walked by and saw some of these sitting in darkeness who lost their way and offered them some oil for their lamps but they being proud would not accept the gift and did not want to receive any help choosing instead to make their home in the ditch which the Lord of the way gave them over to because they loved darkness rather then the light because their deeds were evil.

Tick tock goes the watch the time for grace is running out. Who will hear the call to go out and meet the brifegroom? Only those that have their lamps trimmed and full of oil and who have not lost their mirror that shows them the way when the road is dark and narrow.

God's Sheep hear his Voice (the Word of God)

.............

MATTHEW 13:35 That it might be fulfilled which was spoken by the prophet, saying, I will open my mouth in parables; I will utter things which have been kept secret from the foundation of the world.

MATTHEW 13:13 Therefore speak I to them in parables: because they seeing see not; and hearing they hear not, neither do they understand.

MATTHEW 13:53 And it came to pass, that when Jesus had finished these parables, he departed there.

God's Sheep hear his Voice (the Word) and follow him.

Those who do not hear do not follow as foretold in the book of ISAIAH by JESUS and Paul; closing their eyes to see and their ears to hear for this peoples heart is waxed gross, and their ears are dull of hearing, and their eyes have they closed; lest they should see with their eyes, and hear with their ears, and understand with their heart, and should be converted, and God should heal them.

Hope your day is a great one. Let me know when you have scripture to share and not your own wards denying God's.

The Anointed said:

But you don't want to think about the future reality of the weekly Sabbath, do you?

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Sure I do brother I think about God's future Sabbath regularly, but only as it is described in Gods Word (not your words)...

ISAIAH 66:22-23 [22], For as the new heavens and the new earth, which I will make, shall remain before me, said the LORD, so shall your seed and your name remain. [23], And it shall come to pass, that from one new moon to another, and from one sabbath to another, shall all flesh come to worship before me, said the LORD.

The future of Sabbath keeping will be continued even into the new heavens and new earth. Once again God's Word denying your words.

Receive God's Word and be blessed. Ignoring God's Word does not make it dissappear.

The Anointed said:

When do you think the Lord's day of one thousand years, will begin?

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There is no such thing as "THE LORDS DAY" of 1000 years as it is not biblical

An interesting video if your interested. I only came across it today...


May you receive God's Word and be blessed and may God bless you as you seek him through his Word.

There is no teaching for Sunday worship brother it is not biblical and a man made teaching leading others away from God's Word.

3rdAngel said:

And your point to the post you are quoting from is.....? Yep you did not make one except at the very end to deny all of God's Word and the scriptures provided in the OP with only your own words that are not God's Word.

It is God's Word not mine brother which show why your claims and interpretation in regards to Colossians 2:16-17 is in error. Read it again Colossians 2:16 does not say sabbath as you claim it says sabbath[s] or sabath day *plural in application to the annual sabbaths in feast days not Gods weekly 4th commandment.

This is the reason why no one here wants to discuss the content and context provided in the scriptures provided here in this OP in regards to Colossians 2. The scriptuers provided from God's Word in this OP show those who follow man made teachings and traditions over the Word of God are in error.

We must bring everthing to the light of Gods' Word but it is true many love darkness rather than light because their deed were evil *John 3:19

If you disagree with the scriptures provided here in this OP which is God's Word not mine it is ok but if you cannot prove your claims or you cannot address the scriptures from God's Word in the OP that show why you are in error why do you not believe Gods Word?

According to God's Word not mine all those who knowingly follow the teachings and traditions of man that break the commandments of God are not following God *Matthew 15:3-9. Something to think about.

Where is the scripture in God's Word that says Gods' 4th Commandment is now abolished and we are now commanded to keep Sunday as a holy day? - There is none and if there is none why do you not believe Gods' Word?

Receive God's Word in the Spirit it was given (love) and be blessed. Ignoring it does not make it dissappear.

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3rdAngel, I am reading from a KJV Bible and Colossians 2:16 says this; 'Let no man therefore judge you in meat, or in drink, or in respect of an holyday, or of the new moon, or of the Sabbath days:' The italicised 'days' means that the word is not found in the Greek text. So the last part should read, 'or of the Sabbath'. So now we are left with a singular and not a plural. Notice also that it says 'an holyday', not 'holydays' and 'the new moon' not 'new moons'.

If you look at your Strong's concordance you will see that all Sabbaths are days of cessation from work. Colossians 2:16 is the ONLY reference to a Sabbath in the epistles of Paul, books that are directed specifically at the Body of Christ. The reason that the Body of Christ is not subject to the dictates of the law is because it is made righteous through faith in Christ. Does this mean that the Body of Christ does less than is required by the law? No, it does more than that which is required by the law because it lives every day in the Spirit of Love (Christ).

At no time have I said, and at no time would I say, that God's law is not good. It came from God and IS good. But when we fulfil the law in God's love, we are no longer under the discipline of the law.

Galatians 3:24,25. 'Wherefore the law ('nomos', Greek equivalent to Hebrew 'torah') was our schoolmaster to bring us unto Christ, that we might be justified by faith.
But after that faith is come, we are no longer under a schoolmaster.'

You asked for evidence from the scriptures, and here you have it! This is not a tradition of men, as you claim, but God's Word as a spiritual reality.

In Exodus, Moses make it clear that the Law did not stop at the first Ten Commandments. If one reads on in Exodus after Moses returns from Sinai, additional commandments are given and, as posted before, there are 613 Commandments: Judaism 101: A List of the 613 Mitzvot (Commandments)

These form the basis for Jewish Law (halacha), thus not the Laws that Gentiles must observe. It makes not one iota of sense, therefore, to isolate the Ten from the other 603.

Since the Church became increasingly Gentile during the latter half of the 1st century, knowing that Jewish Law did not apply to them, the Church gradually walked away from the Law, and one of the indications of this can be found with Peter announcing after a vision that all foods are to be considered "clean", which was basically saying that the numerous kosher Laws did not apply. Jesus himself traveled from village to village on Shabbat, which is a technical violation of Exodus 16[29].

Also, one should consider these verses:
Luke 16:16: “The Law and the prophets were in force until John.”

Romans 6:14: “Sin will no longer have power over you; you are under grace, not under the Law.”

7:6: “Now we are released from the Law.”

10:4: “Christ is the end of the Law.”

14:20: “All foods are clean.”

I Corinthians 7:19: “Circumcision counts for nothing.”

Galatians 3:10: “All who depend on the observance of the Law… are under a curse.”

5:2: “If you have yourself circumcised, Christ will be of no use to you.”

5:4 “Any of you who seek your justification in the Law have severed yourself from Christ and fallen from God’s favor.”


Ephesians 2:15: “In his own flesh he abolished the Law with its commands and precepts.”

When asked of Jesus which was the greatest commandment of all, remember what his answer was.

Redemptionsong said:

3rdAngel, I am reading from a KJV Bible and Colossians 2:16 says this; 'Let no man therefore judge you in meat, or in drink, or in respect of an holyday, or of the new moon, or of the Sabbath days:' The italicised 'days' means that the word is not found in the Greek text. So the last part should read, 'or of the Sabbath'. So now we are left with a singular and not a plural. Notice also that it says 'an holyday', not 'holydays' and 'the new moon' not 'new moons'.

If you look at your Strong's concordance you will see that all Sabbaths are days of cessation from work. Colossians 2:16 is the ONLY reference to a Sabbath in the epistles of Paul, books that are directed specifically at the Body of Christ. The reason that the Body of Christ is not subject to the dictates of the law is because it is made righteous through faith in Christ. Does this mean that the Body of Christ does less than is required by the law? No, it does more than that which is required by the law because it lives every day in the Spirit of Love (Christ).

At no time have I said, and at no time would I say, that God's law is not good. It came from God and IS good. But when we fulfil the law in God's love, we are no longer under the discipline of the law.

Galatians 3:24,25. 'Wherefore the law ('nomos', Greek equivalent to Hebrew 'torah') was our schoolmaster to bring us unto Christ, that we might be justified by faith.
But after that faith is come, we are no longer under a schoolmaster.'

You asked for evidence from the scriptures, and here you have it! This is not a tradition of men, as you claim, but God's Word as a spiritual reality.

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Hi brother redemptionsong nice to see you .

Some english translations have it as either "or sabbaths" or as "sabbath days" the GREEK word used here though as sabbaton uses the application number as N-GNP denoting pural application to sabbaths as opposed to "the sabbath" using Genitive neuter singular; N-GNS) which is not used in Colossians 2:16 for sabbaton. Which ever which ever translation you want to use it is not talking about "the Sabbath singluar application" as shown in the Greek, but plural application to sabbaths or more than one sabbath all connected to holy days translated as feastivals or feast days, new moons and meat and drink all of which are shodows to come v17. So v16 does not read of "the sabbath singular" but of the sabbath (Noun - Genitive Neuter Plural; N-GNP).

The Greek word application and use of Colossians 2:16 of sabbaton here is to plural sabbaths or sabbath days linked to holy days or feastivals or feast days but in this case plural days (more than one sabbath). This is seen is Leviticus 23 where there were "annual special sabbaths" linked to the "feast of trumpets", "day of atonement" and the feast of booths" These were not the weekly sabbath of God's 4th commandments but annual sabbaths (plural) that could fall on any day of the week depending on the yearly cycle of the annual feast days.

.............

Galatians 3:22-25:

This scripture only supports what as been shared here. God's Law (10 commandments) give us the knowledge of GOOD AND EVIL; SIN AND RIGHTOUESNESS in the new covenant *Romans 3:20; Romans 7:7; 1 John 3:4. It does not save us it can only give us the knowledge of sin when broken and good when obeyed. It is our schoomaster and leads us to Christ meaning; It shows us all that we are sinners in need of a Saviour and leads us to Christ that we might be forgiven through faith *Galatians 3:22-25; Romans 3:22.

No one is "under the law" when they have through repentance and by faith in God's Word been forgiven for our sins *Proverbs 28:13; 1 John 1:9. We are only "under the law" when we stand guilty before God of breaking it *Romans 3:19; James 2:10-11.

God's Law continues to have the same role it always has and that is only to give us the KNOWLEDGE of what sin is when we break it *Romans 3:20; 1 John 3:4; Romans 7:7 that the rightouesness of the law might be fulfilled in us who walk not after the flesh but after the Spirit *Romans 8:1-4; Romans 3:31.

...........

You cannot separate God's Love from God's LAW. Jesus says on these two commandments Hang all the law and the prophets *Matthew 22:36-40. This is also demonstrated with what Paul says in Romans 13:8-10 where he links law to love by showing that if we love our fellow man we will not break God's 10 commandments as love is expressed through Gods' law not outside or apart from it. James says the same as JESUS and Paul in James 2:8-12. This is all the new covenant promise of God's law written on the heart to love as shown in Hebrews 8:10-12 from Jeremiah 31:31-34.

Hope this helps.

metis said:

In Exodus, Moses make it clear that the Law did not stop at the first Ten Commandments. If one reads on in Exodus after Moses returns from Sinai, additional commandments are given and, as posted before, there are 613 Commandments: Judaism 101: A List of the 613 Mitzvot (Commandments)

These form the basis for Jewish Law (halacha), thus not the Laws that Gentiles must observe. It makes not one iota of sense, therefore, to isolate the Ten from the other 603.

Since the Church became increasingly Gentile during the latter half of the 1st century, knowing that Jewish Law did not apply to them, the Church gradually walked away from the Law, and one of the indications of this can be found with Peter announcing after a vision that all foods are to be considered "clean", which was basically saying that the numerous kosher Laws did not apply. Jesus himself traveled from village to village on Shabbat, which is a technical violation of Exodus 16[29].

Also, one should consider these verses:
Luke 16:16: “The Law and the prophets were in force until John.”

Romans 6:14: “Sin will no longer have power over you; you are under grace, not under the Law.”

7:6: “Now we are released from the Law.”

10:4: “Christ is the end of the Law.”

14:20: “All foods are clean.”

I Corinthians 7:19: “Circumcision counts for nothing.”

Galatians 3:10: “All who depend on the observance of the Law… are under a curse.”

5:2: “If you have yourself circumcised, Christ will be of no use to you.”

5:4 “Any of you who seek your justification in the Law have severed yourself from Christ and fallen from God’s favor.”


Ephesians 2:15: “In his own flesh he abolished the Law with its commands and precepts.”

When asked of Jesus which was the greatest commandment of all, remember what his answer was.

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Sorry brother, your getting God's law (10 commandments) *Deuteronomy 10:4 in the new covenant that gives us the knowledge of GOOD and EVIL; SIN and RIGHTEOUSNESS *Romans 3:20; Romans 7:7; 1 John 3:4; Psalms 119:172 confused with the Mosaic book of the sladow laws *Deuteronomy 31:24-26 that pointed to JESUS and God's plan of salvation in the new covenant.

According to scripture alone; How many commandments are there in God's 10 commandment that give us the knowledge of what sin is when broken; 7; 9; 10 or 613? Here is a hint *Deuteronomy 10:4; Deuteronomy 4:13; Exodus 34:28.

None of the other scriptures teach God's 10 Commandments are abolished. The Mosaic book of the laws for remission of sin and the ceremonial sanctuary laws of the Levitical priesthood are prophetic in nature and point to JESUS and God's plan of salvation in the new covenant.

Hence the reference to “The Law and the prophets were in force until John.”Luke 16:16 which is saying that the Book of the law for remission of sin *animal sacrifices and sin offering that pointed to JESUS were fulfilled in Christ. John the baptist says this in John 1:29 "behold the lamb of God that takes away the sins of the world".

Romans 7:5-7 is not saying we are released from obeying God's law (10 commandments) if that interpretation were true than your interpretation has Paul contradicting himself in Romans 3:31 where he says faith "establishes the law" and that the "righteousness of the law is fulfilled in us who walk not after the flesh but after the Spirit" Romans 8:1-4. Instead it is the sin that has bound us that we are released from and the penaly of sin which is death *Romans 7:6-7. God's Law (10 commandments) simply gives us a knowledge of what sin is nothing more *Romans 7:7 so with context added back the scriptures read...

Romans 7:5-7 [5], For when we were in the flesh, the motions of sins, which were by the law, did work in our members to bring forth fruit to death. [6], But now we are delivered from the law, that being dead wherein we were held; that we should serve in newness of spirit, and not in the oldness of the letter. [7], What shall we say then? Is the law sin? God forbid. No, I had not known sin, but by the law: for I had not known lust, except the law had said, You shall not covet.

Romans 10:4 is has the same application as Galatians 3:22-25 it is not saying God's 10 commandments has been abolished as that would contrdict the rest of the new testament scriptures that show that it is through God's LAW that we have a knowledge of Good and Evil; Sin and Righteousness *Romans 7:7; Romans 3:20; 1 John 3:4 and that God's LAW is established in the life of the believer through faith *Romans 3:31. Romans 10:4 is showing that the purpose of Gods Law is to lead us to Chrsit that we might be forgiven through faith. It shows us that we are all sinners and leads us to the Saviour JESUS...

LAW --------------------------------------------------SINNER----------------------------------------------------> Christ end

Christ is where the Law leads us to and is the end of the law for sinners.

Salvation and the good news of the Gospel is that we have a Saviour that saves us from sin not to continue in sin *John 8:31-36. SIn (breaking any one of God's 10 commandments *James 2:10-11) is the difference between the children of God and the children of the devil *1 John 3:6-10.

The rest of your scripture verses are not relevant as no one is seeking their salvation from the law and circumcision and the food laws of the Mosaic book of the law are not God's 10 commandments so we might stop here.

Sorry brother God's Word disagrees with you and God's Word does not teach lawlessness.

Hope this helps.

3rdAngel said:

Sorry brother, your getting God's law (10 commandments) *Deuteronomy 10:4 in the new covenant that gives us the knowledge of GOOD and EVIL; SIN and RIGHTEOUSNESS *Romans 3:20; Romans 7:7; 1 John 3:4; Psalms 119:172 confused with the Mosaic book of the sladow laws *Deuteronomy 31:24-26 that pointed to JESUS and God's plan of salvation in the new covenant.

According to scripture alone; How many commandments are there in God's 10 commandment that give us the knowledge of what sin is when broken; 7; 9; 10 or 613? Here is a hint *Deuteronomy 10:4; Deuteronomy 4:13; Exodus 34:28.

None of the other scriptures teach God's 10 Commandments are abolished. The Mosaic book of the laws for remission of sin and the ceremonial sanctuary laws of the Levitical priesthood are prophetic in nature and point to JESUS and God's plan of salvation in the new covenant. Hence the reference to “The Law and the prophets were in force until John.”Luke 16:16 which is saying that the Book of the law for remission of sin *animal sacrifices and sin offering that pointed to JESUS were fulfilled in Christ. John the baptist says this in John 1:29 "behold the lamb of God that takes away the sins of the world".

Hope this helps.

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For anyone whom has studied the theology on this, the above is complete unadulterated nonsense. There are not just Ten Commandments as I linked you to the other 603 as found in Torah. On top of that, I quoted the NT passages dealing with Jesus' ending of the Law, which you just totally blow off.

Instead of resorting to sermonizing, maybe actually try and deal with the scriptures as they are written, thus not what your past and present SDA teachers have told you to believe..

3rdAngel said:

Hi brother redemptionsong nice to see you .

Some english translations have it as either "or sabbaths" or as "sabbath days" the GREEK word used here though as sabbaton uses the application number as N-GNP denoting pural application to sabbaths as opposed to "the sabbath" using Genitive neuter singular; N-GNS) which is not used in Colossians 2:16 for sabbaton. Which ever which ever translation you want to use it is not talking about "the Sabbath singluar application" as shown in the Greek, but plural application to sabbaths or more than one sabbath all connected to holy days translated as feastivals or feast days, new moons and meat and drink all of which are shodows to come v17. So v16 does not read of "the sabbath singular" but of the sabbath (Noun - Genitive Neuter Plural; N-GNP).

The Greek word application and use of Colossians 2:16 of sabbaton here is to plural sabbaths or sabbath days linked to holy days or feastivals or feast days but in this case plural days (more than one sabbath). This is seen is Leviticus 23 where there were "annual special sabbaths" linked to the "feast of trumpets", "day of atonement" and the feast of booths" These were not the weekly sabbath of God's 4th commandments but annual sabbaths (plural) that could fall on any day of the week depending on the yearly cycle of the annual feast days.

.............

Galatians 3:22-25:

This scripture only supports what as been shared here. God's Law (10 commandments) give us the knowledge of GOOD AND EVIL; SIN AND RIGHTOUESNESS in the new covenant *Romans 3:20; Romans 7:7; 1 John 3:4. It does not save us it can only give us the knowledge of sin when broken and good when obeyed. It is our schoomaster and leads us to Christ meaning; It shows us all that we are sinners in need of a Saviour and leads us to Christ that we might be forgiven through faith *Galatians 3:22-25; Romans 3:22.

No one is "under the law" when they have through repentance and by faith in God's Word been forgiven for our sins *Proverbs 28:13; 1 John 1:9. We are only "under the law" when we stand guilty before God of breaking it *Romans 3:19; James 2:10-11.

God's Law continues to have the same role it always has and that is only to give us the KNOWLEDGE of what sin is when we break it *Romans 3:20; 1 John 3:4; Romans 7:7 that the rightouesness of the law might be fulfilled in us who walk not after the flesh but after the Spirit *Romans 8:1-4; Romans 3:31.

...........

You cannot separate God's Love from God's LAW. Jesus says on these two commandments Hang all the law and the prophets *Matthew 22:36-40. This is also demonstrated with what Paul says in Romans 13:8-10 where he links law to love by showing that if we love our fellow man we will not break God's 10 commandments as love is expressed through Gods' law not outside or apart from it. James says the same as JESUS and Paul in James 2:8-12. This is all the new covenant promise of God's law written on the heart to love as shown in Hebrews 8:10-12 from Jeremiah 31:31-34.

Hope this helps.

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3rdAngel, I can see that you have a heart for the Lord, but do you know what it is to live by grace?

Matthew 12:8. For the Son of man is Lord even of the Sabbath day.

Jesus tells us that the priests in Solomon's Temple profaned the Sabbath but were blameless (Matthew 12:5). Are we, the priesthood of believers, not blameless if we profane the Sabbath in the Temple built without hands (1 Peter 2:5; Jn 2:19)?

You say that one cannot separate God's love from God's law. You then quote Matthew 22:36-40. Well, look again at the wording of this passage. Does it say anything about God's love? No. It says 'Thou shalt love..' Under the law, the commandment was for us to love God and our neighbour. On these two commandments hangs all the law and the prophets. However, under grace we have a new commandment from Jesus; John 13:34. 'A new commandment I give unto you, That ye love one another; as I have loved you, that ye also love one another.'

The difference between the two is subtle but important. If we try to love God and our neighbour without first receiving the love of God into our hearts, we are doing a 'work' and forever falling short. But once we receive His grace we are enabled to fulfil the law in love.

What, you might be asking, does this have to do with the Sabbath? Well, everything, because it doesn't matter what day of the week is the Sabbath. The important thing for those who are born-again is that they live by faith, and walk by the Spirit of God in love. If you feel the need to go to church only on Sunday, then fine. If you choose to make every day a time of worship and thanksgiving, then even better!

3rdAngel said:

I can see there is not really much point in having an open discussion with you as you are closed to sharing and discussing the scriptures and avoid addressing my posts, scriptures and questions asked of you which show why you are in error.

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I'm the one who's avoiding the scriptures? Ya, you go with that while patting yourself on the back. I posted what the Law entails, and I posted what the NT says about that Jewish Law no longer applying to Gentiles, but that means literally nothing to you whatsoever.

So ya, this is just a waste of time since you are all too willing to ignore what's written in both the Old and New Testaments on this. Thus, this is your problem-- not mine.

Hi Redemptionsong, nice to see you again. Some comments for your consideration are provided below. It took me some time to prepare and study this. My prayer is that you may be patient and take some time to prayerfully read this in the spirit that it has been given (love) and that it might be a blessing to you brother.

Redemptionsong said:

3rdAngel, I can see that you have a heart for the Lord, but do you know what it is to live by grace?

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My understanding of the scriptures brother is that we are only saved by GRACE through faith and not of ourselves it is a gift of God *EPHESIANS 2:8. OBEDIENCE to God's LAW is not how we are saved it is the FRUIT of God's work in us as we BELIEVE and FOLLOW his WORD by faith that works by LOVE. Salvation is from sin (breaking any one of God’s 10 Commandments) not to continue in sin *ROMANS 6:1-23; JOHN 8:31-36. Those who continue in known unrepentant sin do not know God and need to be Born again into the NEW COVENANT promise to love *HEBREWS 8:10-12; ROMANS 13:8-10. This is God's work in us and a part of the NEW COVENANT promise *HEBREWS 8:10-12; PHILIPPIANS 2:13. If our faith has no fruit it is dead *JAMES 2:18-20; 26 and our tree will be cast down and thrown into the fire *MATTHEW 3:10; 7:19-20; 13:49-50.

Redemptionsong said:

Matthew 12:8. For the Son of man is Lord even of the Sabbath day. Jesus tells us that the priests in Solomon's Temple profaned the Sabbath but were blameless (Matthew 12:5). Are we, the priesthood of believers, not blameless if we profane the Sabbath in the Temple built without hands (1 Peter 2:5; Jn 2:19)?

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Jesus is telling us about the priests of the old covenant not the new and MATTHEW 12:1-12 is teaching that it is lawful to do good on the Sabbath. We can therefore do God's work and do good on the Sabbath. This does not mean we can do our own work and break the Sabbath by not resting that would be sin as sin is defined as breaking Gods LAW. The Sabbath was made for man not man for the Sabbath and JESUS is the creator of it *Mark 2:27-28; John 1:1-4; 14.

Redemptionsong said:

You say that one cannot separate God's love from God's law. You then quote Matthew 22:36-40. Well, look again at the wording of this passage. Does it say anything about God's love? No. It says 'Thou shalt love..' Under the law, the commandment was for us to love God and our neighbour. On these two commandments hangs all the law and the prophets. However, under grace we have a new commandment from Jesus; John 13:34. 'A new commandment I give unto you, That ye love one another; as I have loved you, that ye also love one another.'

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Actually no that is not true but here is the reason why from the scriptures. Firstly you were provided four sources showing that LOVE fulfills and establishes Gods LAW and is expressed through obedience to God's law and is a part of the new covenant promise to love in HEBREWS 8:10-12 (from Jeremiah 31:31-34). John 13:34 is in reference to the same scriptures that were provided to you earlier not separate from them as before the new covenant promise no one had ever loved another like JESUS loved us. Let's go through the scriptures in detail as sometimes it helps if we see exactly what they say...

LOVE IS EXPRESSED THROUGH GOD'S LAW NOT OUTSIDE OF GOD'S LAW

The two great commandments of love....

MATTHEW 22:36-40 [36] Master, which is the great commandment in the law?
[37], Jesus said to him, You shall love the Lord your God with all your heart, and with all your soul, and with all your mind. [38], This is the first and great commandment. [39], And the second is like to it, You shall love your neighbour as yourself. [40], ON THESE TWO COMMANDMENTS HANG ALL THE LAW AND THE PROPHETS.

Paul is saying the same thing here in our duty of love to our neighbore...

ROMANS 13:8-10 [8], Owe no man anything, but to LOVE ONE ANOTHER: for HE THAT LOVES ANOTHER HAS FULFILLED THE LAW. [9], FOR THIS, THOU SHALT NOT COMMIT ADULTERY, THOU SHALT NOT KILL, THOU SHALT NOT STEAL, THOU SHALT NOT LIE, THOU SHALT NOT COVET; and IF THERE SHALL BE ANY OTHER COMMANDMENT, it is briefly SUMMED UP in this saying, namely, THOU SHALT LOVE THY NEIGHBOR AS THYSELF. [10], Love works no ill to his neighbor: therefore LOVE IS THE FULFILLING OF THE LAW.

Notice above the application of how we love our neighbore is expressed in obedience to God's law..
James says the same thing here as JESUS and Paul...

JAMES 2:8-12 [8] If you fulfill the royal law according to the scripture, You shall love your neighbor as yourself [Sums up our duty of love in the 10 Commandments Romans 13:9] , you do well: [9], But if you have respect to persons, you commit sin, and are convicted of the law as transgressors. [10], For whosoever shall keep the whole law, and yet offend in one point, he is guilty of all. [11], For he that said, Do not commit adultery, said also, Do not kill. Now if you commit no adultery, yet you kill, you are become a transgressor of the law. [12], So speak, and so do, as they that shall be judged by the law of liberty.

James is using the second great commandment of LOVE which hangs all the commandments of our duty of love to our neighbour and quotes the commandments showing our duty towards our neighbor. This is why Jesus says “On these two commandments hang ALL THE LAW and the prophets” Matthew 22:40. and again this is what JESUS teaches when he says...

JOHN 14:15 [15], IF YOU LOVE ME KEEP MY COMMANDMENTS.

You cannot separate LOVE from God’s LAW. Love is the FULFILLING of it and is demonstrated by OBEDIENCE to Gods’ LAW as our duty of LOVE to God and man. [“On these two commandments [of LOVE] hang ALL THE LAW and the prophets]

This is leading to the NEW COVENANT PROMISE of a NEW HEART to LOVE *HEBREWS 8:10-12; JOHN 5:42; 1 JOHN 5:17-19; 1 JOHN 4:16; 1 JOHN 5:3; 1 JOHN 4:8. We do not have the LOVE of GOD in us *JOHN 5:42. We need to be BORN OF GOD to LOVE *1 JOHN 4:7 and partake of the NEW COVENANT promise.
This is why JESUS teaches in *JOHN 3:3-7 that UNLESS we are made CLEAN from the INSIDE OUT and BORN AGAIN to LOVE we cannot enter the KINGDOM of HEAVEN.

This is what JESUS is talking about in MATTHEW 5:20 when discussing the Scribes and the Pharisees teaching the application of God's LAW from the INSIDE OUT. Whosoever is BORN of GOD to LOVE in the NEW COVENANT *HEBREWS 8:10-12 does not commit SIN *1 JOHN 3:9; ROMANS 13:8-10; JAMES 2:8-12; ROMANS 3:31; MATTHEW 22:36-40.

This is the GOOD NEWS of the Gospels in the NEW COVENANT we have a SAVIOUR to save us from sin (not in sin) but we have to be made new to walk in God's Spirit *GALATIANS 5:16; ROMANS 8:1-4.
1 JOHN 3:3-10 is talking about all those who are BORN AGAIN to LOVE and it is LOVE that fulfills God's LAW in all those who BELIEVE and FOLLOW God's WORD in the NEW COVENANT *HEBREWS 8:10-12; ROMANS 13:8-10.

This results in a people that keep God's LAW (10 commandments) from the INSIDE OUT. *REVELATION 14:12; REVELATION 22:14; 1 JOHN 2:3-4; 1 JOHN 3:3-10; ROMANS 13:8-10; ROMANS 3:31; HEBREWS 8:10-12

If we LOVE our neighbor...

* We will honor our parents,
* We will not kill them
* We will not commit adultery with thier spouse
* We will not steal from them
* We will not lie to them
* We will not covet what they own.

If we LOVE our God...

* We will not have other Gods
* We will not make idols and worship them
* We will not take his name [follow] him in vain
* We will remember his Sabbath and keep it holy.

ON THESE TWO COMMANDMENTS [OF LOVE] HANG ALL THE LAW AND THE PROPHETS.

It is true as you say though no one can keep anyone of God's 10 Commandments unless they have been given a new heart to LOVE and have been born again. This is God's work in all those who believe and follow his Word.

Hope this is helpful

May you receive God's Word and be blessed.

metis said:

I'm the one who's avoiding the scriptures? Ya, you go with that while patting yourself on the back. I posted what the Law entails, and I posted what the NT says about that Jewish Law no longer applying to Gentiles, but that means literally nothing to you whatsoever. So ya, this is just a waste of time since you are all too willing to ignore what's written in both the Old and New Testaments on this. Thus, this is your problem-- not mine.

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Brother metis, you were indeed avoiding addressing the scriptures and the questions posted to you that were only sent in love and as a help to you. Your posts were adressed in detail section by section and scripture by scripture why your claims were not true.

The scriptures provided to you show that your confused as you have mixed up your application to God's eternal law (10 commandments) that give us a knowledge of what sin is under the new covenant *Romans 3:20: 1 John 3:4; Romans 7:7 with the shadow laws of the Mosaic book of the law that were shadows pointing to JESUS and God's plan of salvation in the new covenant *Hebrews 7; Hebrews 8; Hebrews 9; Hebrews 10; Colossians 2; Ephesians 2.

God's law being written on stone by the finger of God and being the very the work of God alone and the other written in the book by Moses being the very work of Moses as directed by God that point to things to come (shadow laws in ordinances) and other laws that revolve around Gods' 10 commandments that show us what sin is.

For me, he must increase and I must decrease. I only point all to the Word of God because it is there we find the one who loves us that we may love him. I know him and am known by him. All that he shows me I see and must show to all because I am blind. He tells me it is those that see that do not see. These are they that have once known him or do not know him. Who am I that he should choose me out of the world? I am no one but he is all. If I did not believe him I would not know him. What can I do without him? He is love and now I love. I follow him now because I love him who first loved me. **mod edit**

b

3rdAngel said:

There is no such thing as "THE LORDS DAY" of 1000 years as it is not biblical

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Acts 17: 31; For He (Our Lord God and Savior) has fixed a DAY in which he shall judge the whole world with Justice by means of a MAN he has CHOSEN. He has given proof of this to everyone by raising that MAN from death.

Revelation 20:4 I saw thrones on which were seated those who had been given 'AUTHORITY TO JUDGE.' And I saw the souls of those who had been beheaded because of their testimony about Jesus and because of the word of God. They had not worshiped the beast or its image and had not received its mark on their foreheads or their hands. They came to life and reigned with Christ for a thousand years.

I see that your eyes have been blinded, your ears have been made deaf, and your mind has been made so dull that you cannot understand the words that the Lord our saviour spoke through his obedient servants.

The Anointed said:

b

Acts 17: 31; For He (Our Lord God and Savior) has fixed a DAY in which he shall judge the whole world with Justice by means of a MAN he has CHOSEN. He has given proof of this to everyone by raising that MAN from death.

Revelation 20:4 I saw thrones on which were seated those who had been given 'AUTHORITY TO JUDGE.' And I saw the souls of those who had been beheaded because of their testimony about Jesus and because of the word of God. They had not worshiped the beast or its image and had not received its mark on their foreheads or their hands. They came to life and reigned with Christ for a thousand years.

I see that your eyes have been blinded, your ears have been made deaf, and your mind has been made so dull that you cannot understand the words that the Lord our saviour spoke through his obedient servants.

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Now your getting "THE LORDS DAY" mixed up with "THE DAY OF THE LORD" no need to say anything else.

MJFlores said:

What agreement exist between God and the people today?
It is the new covenant which Christ Jesus is the mediator.

From the Bible:

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That's right. The new Covenant makes all Jews and gentiles (who are saved) equal to God as actual children of God. In other words as royalty. Sons and daughters of the King.

3rdAngel said:

Now your getting "THE LORDS DAY" mixed up with "THE DAY OF THE LORD" no need to say anything else.

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Correct! There's no need for you to say anything else, you have said enough to convince everyone of who and what you are.

How long is 'THE DAY OF THE LORD'
And whose, is the DAY of the Lord?
Is it the DAY of Satan?

Revelation 20: 1-2; And I saw an angel coming down out of heaven, having the key to the Abyss and holding in his hand a great chain. He seized the dragon, that ancient serpent, who is the devil, or Satan, and bound him for a thousand years.

NO! Of course it is not the DAY of Satan.

It is 'THE LORD'S DAY' of one thousand years, in which he shall judge the whole world with Justice by means of a MAN he has CHOSEN. He has given proof of this to everyone by raising that MAN from death.This is the great day of rest from he who stands before God night and day accusing his brothers, the seventh day from the day in which Adam ate of the forbidden fruit and died in that day at the age of 930.

The Great Sabbath of our future, of which the weekly Sabbath was but a faint outline, or a shadow, as revealed by Paul in Colossians 2: 16.