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A Second Brexit Vote?

Should there be a second referendum?

  • Yes

    Votes: 16 59.3%

  • No

    Votes: 11 40.7%

  • No opinion/maybe maybe not/etc.

    Votes: 0 0.0%
  • Total voters
    27
Sunstone

Sunstone

De Diablo Del Fora
Premium Member
Do you favor or disfavor a second Brexit referendum, and why or why not?

Naturally, I am especially interested in hearing from folks in the UK, but anyone else who wants to chime in on this is welcome too. After all, Brexit affects more people than just those living in the UK.
 
Brickjectivity

Brickjectivity

wind and rain touch not this brain
Staff member
Premium Member
Yes, because it would really tick of the populace and demonstrate conclusively they have no choice in the matter. They will be polled again and again until the answer favors the EU.
 
LuisDantas

LuisDantas

Aura of atheification
Premium Member
Rival said:
It would only cause more chaos and resentment. Most people in this country just want to get on with it now.
Click to expand...
Somehow I don't get that impression from what I follow.

I get the sense that there is a sizeable segment of the UK's population that does in fact want any kind of Brexit sooner rather than later. There are arguments for that, not least of them the expectation of lessening the current drama in the political parties and Parliament.

Unfortunately, That Just Will Not Work.

Brexit is the direct result of what sure looks like a massive campaign of misinformation and manipulation from the right wing press and the likes of Nigel Farage, who in some respects out-Trumps Trump himself.

There is essentially no escape. You British will deal with the resentment and chaos for, by my estimation, at least some five years still. That is if anything even more certain if No Deal comes to happen, because then you will have to deal with an unholy combination of:

1. Dire economic fallout. Permanent fallout. Brexit will not be the end of the UK as major player, but only because after three years of failure to even seriously discuss the concept for internal consumption the UK has already blasted its own credibility into dust.
2. Exchange of accusations for the blame
3. Renewed initiatives from North Ireland and Scotland to disengage from the confusion that the UK will have decided to become.
4. Severe internal conflict inside the Tories, Labour, and perhaps even the opportunist Brexit Party.
5. The best part of a decade worth of extremely taxing efforts at establishing new trade deals under some of the worst imaginable circunstances.

Having a second (or third, if 1975 is counted as well) referendum with remain as an option and having Remain win is the absolute best path forward for you. And even that will amount to painful damage control at this point. And who knows what Leavers will do after that...

In essence, Farage has been bleeding you for his advantage, and so have the Tories, who are on their twilight but can't accept it and have engaged in increasingly desperate maneuvers to artificially extend their grasp on power.

Meanwhile, Jeremy Corbyn has been failing you in an entirely different way, arguably an even more scandalous one, as he stubbornly refuses to take the responsibility of calling Brexit to task as the irresponsible play that has always been.
 
LuisDantas

LuisDantas

Aura of atheification
Premium Member
Brickjectivity said:
Yes, because it would really tick of the populace and demonstrate conclusively they have no choice in the matter. They will be polled again and again until the answer favors the EU.
Click to expand...
The UK has a choice. It can face reality and operate with other nations as everyone does, or it can pose impressive and be oblivious to its own basic needs.

If one listens to Leaver talking points, the curiosity about what leads them to expect so much advantage becomes almost overwhelming.

The UK is hardly crucial for any particular goods or services. It has precious little leverage, and Brexit talk has consumed a sizeable part of what little there was.

In essence, the UK has made itself a hostage that it hopes to use to blackmail the other 27 EU members into... giving it further privilege, apparently, even as it also shuts itself out of the ability to vote.

That can't in good faith be hoped to lead to anything good for the UK. And it will not.

Frankly, I am surprised and even dismayed that this latest breather was given. Enough is enough already, and the UK shall reap what it has sown at some point.

Then I remember that I talking about the perspectives of real people and I feel a bit ashamed of myself.
 
Last edited:
Heyo

Heyo

Veteran Member
Brexit taps into the question of sovereignty of the people and democracy itself. Having a second vote is like saying "You couldn't have been serious, let's try this again." Or, in other words, the people are too stupid to vote.
And the EU isn't helping with extending the date further and further. GB should be kicked out of the EU - as was the vote of the British people. Everything else is ignoring a democratic decision and by extension, invalidating democracy as a whole.
And when the dust has settled and everyone has learned his lesson, GB can apply for membership in the EU a second time.
 
LuisDantas

LuisDantas

Aura of atheification
Premium Member
Heyo said:
Brexit taps into the question of sovereignty of the people and democracy itself. Having a second vote is like saying "You couldn't have been serious, let's try this again." Or, in other words, the people are too stupid to vote.
Click to expand...
Unfortunately, that is not too far off by my understanding.

Brexit has a lot of technical, financial and political consequences. It arguably has no parallel in history. And it has been treated as if it had no more consequence than deciding on the hue of a coat of paint.

David Cameron should never have trusted a referendum to settle the matter and get Brexit out of his hair - but that amounts to saying that he bet on the maturity of the voters and lost.

And the EU isn't helping with extending the date further and further. GB should be kicked out of the EU - as was the vote of the British people. Everything else is ignoring a democratic decision and by extension, invalidating democracy as a whole.
Click to expand...

I don't think so.

The 2016 vote is hardly democratic, or even functional. It leaves unavoidable, very significant decisions such as the Single Market and the inner movement in Ireland to be decided later. The Tories knew that and arrongantly neglected that responsibility. Corbyn has been enabling them by attempting to allow Brexit to happen and blaming it on the Tories.

There is a measure of popular support, sure - a very questionable measure at that - but the vote was only possible because it is legally non-binding.

The Conservative Power has truly thrown the UK under the bus this time.

And when the dust has settled and everyone has learned his lesson, GB can apply for membership in the EU a second time.
Click to expand...

By that point the damage will be irreversible already. You will be lucky to be accepted, and even more lucky for it to make much of a difference. The transition pains, particularly those regarding the other 27 countries, have mostly been paid already.
 
Estro Felino

Estro Felino

Believer in free will
Premium Member
LuisDantas said:
Somehow I don't get that impression from what I follow.

I get the sense that there is a sizeable segment of the UK's population that does in fact want any kind of Brexit sooner rather than later. There are arguments for that, not least of them the expectation of lessening the current drama in the political parties and Parliament.

Unfortunately, That Just Will Not Work.

Brexit is the direct result of what sure looks like a massive campaign of misinformation and manipulation from the right wing press and the likes of Nigel Farage, who in some respects out-Trumps Trump himself.

There is essentially no escape. You British will deal with the resentment and chaos for, by my estimation, at least some five years still. That is if anything even more certain if No Deal comes to happen, because then you will have to deal with an unholy combination of:

1. Dire economic fallout. Permanent fallout. Brexit will not be the end of the UK as major player, but only because after three years of failure to even seriously discuss the concept for internal consumption the UK has already blasted its own credibility into dust.
2. Exchange of accusations for the blame
3. Renewed initiatives from North Ireland and Scotland to disengage from the confusion that the UK will have decided to become.
4. Severe internal conflict inside the Tories, Labour, and perhaps even the opportunist Brexit Party.
5. The best part of a decade worth of extremely taxing efforts at establishing new trade deals under some of the worst imaginable circunstances.

Having a second (or third, if 1975 is counted as well) referendum with remain as an option and having Remain win is the absolute best path forward for you. And even that will amount to painful damage control at this point. And who knows what Leavers will do after that...

In essence, Farage has been bleeding you for his advantage, and so have the Tories, who are on their twilight but can't accept it and have engaged in increasingly desperate maneuvers to artificially extend their grasp on power.

Meanwhile, Jeremy Corbyn has been failing you in an entirely different way, arguably an even more scandalous one, as he stubbornly refuses to take the responsibility of calling Brexit to task as the irresponsible play that has always been.
Click to expand...

Honestly...the fact that a Brazilian considers absolutely vital to fight for the EU's survival, really scares me....and disturbs me.
Non Europeans have no idea of what the EU has done to many countries...
Very unfair things.
 
Rival

Rival

se Dex me saut.
Staff member
Premium Member
sun rise said:
That's not what the polls I found claim. Most appear to be in favor of remain if a 2nd referendum were held.
Click to expand...
Those polls are a world away from living here and being around everyday folk.
 
sun rise

sun rise

The world is on fire
Premium Member
Rival said:
Those polls are a world away from living here and being around everyday folk.
Click to expand...
Surveys have said the Scots have an entirely different point of view than England, for one thing.

And besides, by that measure, everyone in the US thinks Trump is a monster since the everyday folk I know think that.
 
Laika

Laika

Well-Known Member
Premium Member
Sunstone said:
Do you favor or disfavor a second Brexit referendum, and why or why not?

Naturally, I am especially interested in hearing from folks in the UK, but anyone else who wants to chime in on this is welcome too. After all, Brexit affects more people than just those living in the UK.
Click to expand...

Voted No. As a Brit, I don't think a second referendum will actually solve anything and it will probably make things worse.

I voted remain in the first referendum, but I'd be inclined to vote leave this time around. If we can't negotiate our way out of the EU- there is no hope of reforming it from within. I think the past three years will introduce a lot of wild cards in to the mix and it is far from certain what the outcome of a second referendum would be or if the result will be good for the country or reflect the will of the people (giving the lying, propaganda and possible Russian interference).

I'm deeply concerned about the climate we have now and it would be far better if this was contained and controlled in parliament. If there was a second referendum, it will be bitter, hostile and down right scary.

We need politicians to clear up this mess- not pass the buck. The first referendum was a plague on all our houses- the leave campaign lied through it teeth and the remain side could only use fear to justify staying in the EU. We only need a second referendum because Parliament is unfit and unable to govern.

We need calmer heads to prevail, not stir this thing up again. I believed that they needed a conservative-labour coalition to work together on Brexit when the result came out and I think that would still be a good idea given this is the most serious decision we have to make outside of war time. We know leaving will be bad so we should take it seriously and stop the political "games".

But I look at the politicians we've got and I despair... :(
 
Mock Turtle

Mock Turtle

Oh my, did I say that!
Premium Member
I'd go with a second vote. Considering the import of what we were voting for, and the fact that it would impact future generations more than current ones, especially those who couldn't vote because they were too young, I would have preferred not to have used a simple majority. Or if used, and such a slight majority occurred, as happened (it could hardly have been closer, perhaps 51/49), then we should have gone into a more thorough analysis - perhaps leaving it to a group of experts (problems here) for recommendations. I'm afraid that I don't trust the general public to 'do the right thing'. The popular media in the UK is overwhelmingly right-wing, and the tactics used by these is often just to use rhetorical language or to highlight suitable cases that promote their agenda. I did vote Remain.
 
HonestJoe

HonestJoe

Well-Known Member
Sunstone said:
Do you favor or disfavor a second Brexit referendum, and why or why not?
Click to expand...
It shouldn’t be necessary. The initial referendum was a simple question of whether we should leave or not. It is the job of Government and Parliament to sort out the details. The core problem is that the question was asked without any idea how it could or would be achieved.

The ongoing failure of Parliament (which I doubt will change after the election) means a confirmatory referendum might be inevitable but I fear it won’t help much either. The result would likely be close run with a whole tranche of people refusing to vote because their preferred outcome wouldn’t be an option. It’d also be unlikely to be binding so Parliament would still need to agree on the result. It would probably help push some kind of deal through but that isn’t going to stop people moaning.

And of course this is the start of a process, not an end. We’re going to have the same old political rubbish going on as we move on to negotiating trade deals and the like over the next few years.
 
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