Do bible and coran present a sadistic god?

Yes, definetly.
Judge by yourself :

- bible (deuteronome 28:63)
"the eternal will take pleasure make you perish and destroy you"

- bible (10 orders)
"because I am a jealous god"


- the coran allows slavery and even sexual slavery :


god is a sadistic *** with no ball but with 100% arrogance and cruelty.
god needs your ignorance and stupidity.
god mixes good with evil because god is evil but hides his evilness behind the good acts of humans.

You're wrong. We never met

Ignorance and stupidity are not the exclusive domain of Christians and Muslims.

The Bible and the Quran represent to a degree a human view of God from the time and culture of their time. which spiritually evolves over time. The scripture of the Baha'i Faith represents a more spiritually evolved view of God.

Forumer said:

Yes, definetly.
Judge by yourself :

- bible (deuteronome 28:63)
"the eternal will take pleasure make you perish and destroy you"

- bible (10 orders)
"because I am a jealous god"

- the coran allows slavery and even sexual slavery :

god is a sadistic *** with no ball but with 100% arrogance and cruelty.
god needs your ignorance and stupidity.
god mixes good with evil because god is evil but hides his evilness behind the good acts of humans.

Click to expand...

not at all, just dealing (attempting to fix) with bicameral minds.

Forumer said:

Yes, definetly.
Judge by yourself :

- bible (deuteronome 28:63)
"the eternal will take pleasure make you perish and destroy you"

- bible (10 orders)
"because I am a jealous god"

Click to expand...

Regarding Deut 28:63, Rashi makes an interesting comment on the verse:

So will the Lord cause to rejoice: [I.e., “so will He make] your enemies [rejoice] over you, to annihilate you.” [But the Holy One, Blessed is He, Himself, does not rejoice. From here, we learn that the Holy One, Blessed is He, does not rejoice over the downfall of the wicked, for in our verse it does not say יָשׂוּשׂ [in the simple conjugation], “rejoice,” but rather יָשִׂישׂ in the causative conjugation, “cause to rejoice.” I.e., God will make others rejoice over your downfall, because you acted wickedly, while He Himself will not personally rejoice over your downfall. Nevertheless, when it comes to bestowing good upon the righteous, God Himself rejoices, as it is said: “just as the Lord rejoiced (שָׂשׂ) over you [to do good for you,” where the verb שָׂשׂ is in the simple conjugation, for God Himself rejoices here]]. — [Meg. 10b]

Click to expand...

Regarding God described as 'jealous'; Jealous != Sadistic.

Forumer said:

Yes, definetly.
Judge by yourself :
- bible (deuteronome 28:63)
"the eternal will take pleasure make you perish and destroy you"...................

Click to expand...

I find you ignored verse 58 because there at Deuteronomy 28:58 you will find the word "IF"
If you will Not ......
Only those who will Not ' repent ' will ' perish ' ( be destroyed - Psalms 92:7) - 2 Peter 3:9

God's Law to ancient Israel placed high value on righteous judges - Exodus 18:21-22
There was re-emphasis for righteous judges for the people as found at Deuteronomy 1:13-17
Judges were to confirm a criminal charge to be true before proceeding - Deuteronomy 13:14; Deuteronomy 17:4
No single witness could convict anyone - Deuteronomy 19:15 - Exodus 23:1
Honesty was required according to Deuteronomy 19:18-19
Judges were to be impartial - Leviticus 19:15
King Jehoshaphat commanded the judges what to do at 2 Chronicles 19:6-7.
The people lived in security under King Solomon - 1 Kings 4:20; 1 Kings 4:25
It was the people (Not their God) who turned their backs on their God - Isaiah 26:9
Thus, to straighten things out God send Jesus to be Messiah for us and to take action - Isaiah 11:3-4.
Earth was Not created for the wicked to inhabit Earth - Psalms 92:7

dybmh said:

Regarding God described as 'jealous'; Jealous != Sadistic.

Click to expand...

I find there is a BIG difference between jealous and envy.
You can be jealous for your good name to protect it.
Whereas an envious person wants to destroy what you have.

I think the OP's conclusion is, sadly, reasonably sound.

Forumer said:

Yes, definetly.
Judge by yourself :

- bible (deuteronome 28:63)
"the eternal will take pleasure make you perish and destroy you"

- bible (10 orders)
"because I am a jealous god"

- the coran allows slavery and even sexual slavery :

god is a sadistic *** with no ball but with 100% arrogance and cruelty.
god needs your ignorance and stupidity.
god mixes good with evil because god is evil but hides his evilness behind the good acts of humans.

Click to expand...

Why is it that people who want to smear religion are only able to find what can look negative within the religious texts, but they ignore all the love and kindness with in the same book?
What about all the verses in the bible about loving our neighbors or what about love and respect for your parents? What is so negative or wrong with that?
What about the search within your self, that is a huge part of understanding God or any other religious deity?
What about the parts in the bible or other religious texts about YOU are the one who must correct your own faults to be able to see God's glory? What about all the verses that tell you what is needed to become one of God's followers (for Christians)? No these parts you so elegant just skip because it does not fit your agenda of smearing those who believe.

So to the part where it looks like God makes it difficult for human beings. The MORAL code of the bible, what is needed to gain wisdom enough to begin seeing the truth in the Bible or other religious texts? the moral and ethic "rules are there for YOU to be able to understand God. it is not there for those who do not believe. Because if you do not believe or have faith in God, How are you going to understand the true meaning of the Bible? You have to raise your wisdom to understand, so yes it is not enough to only believe, it is hard work mostly every day to get up to the standard that is required to even see the first truth of God. That is not an evil God who say, it is what every teaching of a God, Buddha, Dao telling humans about. IT is not up to God, Buddha or a Dao to make you be able to rise to the needed wisdom level it is only yourself as a practitioner that can do it. So no it is not easy for a nonbeliever to realize what the Bible or other religious texts actually say and mean.

IF you are a nonbeliever that is, of course, fine, it is your choice, then you do not need to follow God or other spiritual teachings. The rules in the Bible is for Christians.

Amanaki said:

So to the part where it looks like God makes it difficult for human beings. The MORAL code of the bible, what is needed to gain wisdom enough to begin seeing the truth in the Bible or other religious texts? the moral and ethic "rules are there for YOU to be able to understand God. it is not there for those who do not believe. Because if you do not believe or have faith in God, How are you going to understand the true meaning of the Bible? You have to raise your wisdom to understand, so yes it is not enough to only believe, it is hard work mostly every day to get up to the standard that is required to even see the first truth of God. That is not an evil God who say, it is what every teaching of a God, Buddha, Dao telling humans about. IT is not up to God, Buddha or a Dao to make you be able to rise to the needed wisdom level it is only yourself as a practitioner that can do it. So no it is not easy for a nonbeliever to realize what the Bible or other religious texts actually say and mean.

IF you are a nonbeliever that is, of course, fine, it is your choice, then you do not need to follow God or other spiritual teachings. The rules in the Bible is for Christians.

Click to expand...

This is just intellectual arrogance. No wonder so many don't even bother debating with any of the religious who have such attitudes. Never, ever, ever, ever, even consider you might be wrong? Some of us at least have the humility to think we might be - but on probabilities - we think not.

Mock Turtle said:

This is just intellectual arrogance. No wonder so many don't even bother debating with any of the religious who have such attitudes. Never, ever, ever, ever, even consider you might be wrong? Some of us at least have the humility to think we might be - but on probabilities - we think not.

Click to expand...

I can be wrong in some cases, yes, and most of the times I have been humble enough to admit I was wrong when I learn a higher wisdom of what I was speaking about, But if you look at the OP, it is very clear that the author of the OP has little or no interest in finding the truth about Christianity or other religions for that matter. If a person has an interest in finding the truth, they would benefit from looking at both the negative and the positive written words in the Bible and then ask questions about it. But we see time and time again that nonbelievers smearing the believers or the written word from the bible or the Qu`ran when discussing Islam.
What attitude are you speaking about by the way? Is it ok for a nonbeliever to smear believers but when a believer ask nonbelievers questions or see their lack of knowledge about the topic in hand, to try to help them understand what religion actually is, it becomes arrogance?

Forumer said:

Yes, definetly.
Judge by yourself :

- bible (deuteronome 28:63)
"the eternal will take pleasure make you perish and destroy you"

- bible (10 orders)
"because I am a jealous god"

- the coran allows slavery and even sexual slavery :

god is a sadistic *** with no ball but with 100% arrogance and cruelty.
god needs your ignorance and stupidity.
god mixes good with evil because god is evil but hides his evilness behind the good acts of humans.

Click to expand...

God is not evil but there is crookedness in what primitive people ascribed to God

Well if you know anything about the deva, Kali, in Hinduism, you'll know that things aren't so black-and-white. The "anger" attributed to absolute-reality, is also love, it is the dissolution of the ego into pure love, the pure transient luminosity, the illumination of the soul into the all-pervading Unity that only Gives and doesn't take. That anger only resolves into pure ecstasy, it is transformative.


Also, God is not a guy, being, entity or so forth. The concept of a sadist, is rather, poorly thought out in regards to the topic.


"Surely Allah does not enjoin indecency; do you say against Allah what you do not know?" - Surah 7:28



On the Jewish/Christian side, if you think HaShem is so bad, read the Song of Solomon. Seriously, love of God is not a rigid dogma, it is a transcendent erotic kind of love that contains within itself all passions, all sins, all good and evil, it dissolves all things into it's pure unity - for all of existence is confined to it's overflowing limitlessness.

As for the New Testament, you can hardly even try to apply "sadistic" under any interpretation to the Sermon on the Mount (Matthew 5-7). However you can't really compare most of Christianity to that passage either.......

Amanaki said:

IF you are a nonbeliever that is, of course, fine, it is your choice, then you do not need to follow God or other spiritual teachings. The rules in the Bible is for Christians.

Click to expand...

Traditionally, that is not how the western world has worked.
Whilst you make some good points, it's not as simple as just ignoring Christianity if we don't follow it.

However, I would say that it's extremely important that we keep in mind arguing about literal interpretations of scripture is not even applicable to many Christians. And to expect them to defend every verse despite them not seeing the Bible as literally true seems hypocritical.
Literalists, on the other hand...different story.

Amanaki said:

I can be wrong in some cases, yes, and most of the times I have been humble enough to admit I was wrong when I learn a higher wisdom of what I was speaking about, But if you look at the OP, it is very clear that the author of the OP has little or no interest in finding the truth about Christianity or other religions for that matter. If a person has an interest in finding the truth, they would benefit from looking at both the negative and the positive written words in the Bible and then ask questions about it. But we see time and time again that nonbelievers smearing the believers or the written word from the bible or the Qu`ran when discussing Islam.

Click to expand...

I'm generalising here, but Biblical literacy in non-believers is generally pretty high. At least amongst those non-believers who have some level of interest in religion. Many of us were raised in Christian households, or attended Christian schools, or similar.
I do find some of the arguments about the Quran pretty hamfisted, both in terms of the assumptions and cherry picking on the atheist side, and the unwillingness to critically evaluate what is seen as a perfect document on the Islamic side. Makes meaningful discussions a challenge, which is why I tend to avoid scriptural discussions regarding Islam.

Amanaki said:

What attitude are you speaking about by the way? Is it ok for a nonbeliever to smear believers but when a believer ask nonbelievers questions or see their lack of knowledge about the topic in hand, to try to help them understand what religion actually is, it becomes arrogance?

Click to expand...

I think it's fair to say that theists, as a group, don't have a view on 'what religion is'.
Similarly, seeing atheists as any sort of coherent, philosophically united group is a mistake.

To clarify my position, I don't like it much when someone argues against Christians, using points that only apply to some Christians.
Similarly, I don't like being put in a box labelled 'atheist' as if it's at all meaningful on what I believe.
We tend to overgeneralize in these discussions, I think.

lewisnotmiller said:

Traditionally, that is not how the western world has worked.
Whilst you make some good points, it's not as simple as just ignoring Christianity if we don't follow it.

However, I would say that it's extremely important that we keep in mind arguing about literal interpretations of scripture is not even applicable to many Christians. And to expect them to defend every verse despite them not seeing the Bible as literally true seems hypocritical.
Literalists, on the other hand...different story.

Click to expand...

Even I am a European person the spiritual teaching that i follow/study is Buddhism, so i kind of have left the western way of thinking far away. And maybe (i do not know for sure) the western culture and its path toward atheism (more people become atheists) give religions like Christianity difficulty to stay alive because no matter what Christians want to teach western world it seems to be beaten down by more and more atheistic way of thinking. I know this is how it going to go no matter what we try to do, but it is worrying to see that more people go toward worshipping physical objects and money, then to arise their wisdom about who we truly are. (spiritual practice)
In my understanding of the bible or other religious scriptures, they are not meant always to be followed literally, but more as a guide to good behavior and how to heighten our own morality and wisdom. They are more for personal cultivation than for debates.

lewisnotmiller said:

I'm generalising here, but Biblical literacy in non-believers is generally pretty high. At least amongst those non-believers who have some level of interest in religion. Many of us were raised in Christian households, or attended Christian schools, or similar.
I do find some of the arguments about the Quran pretty hamfisted, both in terms of the assumptions and cherry picking on the atheist side, and the unwillingness to critically evaluate what is seen as a perfect document on the Islamic side. Makes meaningful discussions a challenge, which is why I tend to avoid scriptural discussions regarding Islam.



I think it's fair to say that theists, as a group, don't have a view on 'what religion is'.
Similarly, seeing atheists as any sort of coherent, philosophically united group is a mistake.

To clarify my position, I don't like it much when someone argues against Christians, using points that only apply to some Christians.
Similarly, I don't like being put in a box labelled 'atheist' as if it's at all meaningful on what I believe.
We tend to overgeneralize in these discussions, I think.

Click to expand...

Your way of arguing is in my eyes a better way to argue, actually many could learn to think in a similar way as you give your understanding and wisdom. And yes I should also learn from your way of writing here, you have good points, without trashing believers

Amanaki said:

Even I am a European person the spiritual teaching tat i follow/study is Buddhism, so i kind of have left the western way of thinking far away. And maybe (i do not know for sure) the western culture and its path toward atheism (more people become atheists) give religions like Christianity difficulty to stay alive because no matter what Christians want to teach western world it seems to be beaten down by more and more atheistic way of thinking. I know this is how it going to go no matter what we try to do, but it is worrying to see that more people go toward worshipping physical objects and money, then to arise their wisdom about who we truly are. (spiritual practice)

Click to expand...

I agree that worshipping physical objects and money is problematic. I'd quibble on how 'new' this is, or how it's the natural 'replacement' of religion though.
I don't worship God. That doesn't mean I do worship objects or money.

Amanaki said:

In my understanding of the bible or other religious scriptures, they are not meant always to be followed literally, but more as a guide to good behavior and how to heighten our own morality and wisdom. They are more for personal cultivation than for debates.

Click to expand...

I agree to some level. However, for whatever reason, there are a lot of believers who do follow them literally. And there are even more believers who have impacted on the course of nations due to their beliefs in these scriptures, be they literal or not.
So it is not enough to merely suggest they are for personal growth and leave it at that. These things impact on my world in very real ways.