Man made traditions from the Church or the Word of God - Who do you believe and follow?

3rdAngel said:

which was spoken and written by God himself to his people, has been abolished and we are now commanded to keep Sunday (or the first day of the week) as a Holy day.

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3rdAngel said:

Hi InChrsit, nice to meet you here.

All of God's laws are for his people. God's ISRAEL in the new covenant are all those who believe and follow God's Word. If we are not a part of God's Israel we have no part in the new covenant promise which is to God's Israel *Hebrews 8:10-12. Gentiles are now grafted in *Romans 11:13-17. Please see previous post for a more detailed reply as what you are sharing here has already been responded to in the post above this one in post # 34 linked. Thanks for sharing but no nothing you have provided here answers any of the questions asked in the OP.

God bless

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InChrist said:

Hello 3rdAngel From reading your posts and the questions in your OP I think there is a problem with your denomination or group confusing the church/ Christian believers with the children/ nation of Israel

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InChrist said:

...and confusing the Sabbath day of rest with the day Christians have historically gathered for fellowship and worship, as demonstrated in the NT ( Acts 20:7; 1Corinthians 16:2; 2 Corinthians 9:12).

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InChrist said:

The Sabbath has never been changed or replaced and Jesus, as a Jew naturally followed the law and kept the Sabbath.

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InChrist said:

Yet, the scriptures are clear that Christians are to find and enter into our rest in Jesus everyday ( Matthew 11:28).

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InChrist said:

Did you notice that the passage in Hebrews 8 you referenced says in vs. 11 ... none of them shall teach his neighbor and none his brother, saying “Know the Lord, for all shall know Me from the least of them to the greatest of them”. Is that the case now in this present age? I don’t see that it is at all. What I do see is that this passage rather than referring to Christians refers to God’s dealing with the nation of Israel in the future, as the verse states “after these days”.

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InChrist said:

What do you think the Sabbath is for and what do you do on the Sabbath you keep?

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3rdAngel said:

Actually Steve, the days of the week are very clear in God's Word. Day 1 is our Sunday through to day 7 is God's Sabbath. We cannot change the day as God already blessed it and set it aside as a holy day of rest *GENESIS 2:1-3 that he commands us to keep Holy

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Stevicus said:

And I ask again (for the third time), where does it say in the Bible that "Sunday" (using this exact word for the day) is the first day of the week? If you can't point out a single instance where God makes the utterance "Sunday" as referring to the first day of the week, then your entire argument comes crashing to the ground.

Just saying "Day 1 is our Sunday" doesn't cut it. Is that something that God said, or is that something a human being decided arbitrarily? If a human being decided that, then we, as humans, have the authority to change it. Therefore, we can decide, as humans, to simply make Sunday the seventh day of the week.

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3rdAngel said:

Hi Steve, let me share with you again for the second time brother, there is no Sunday or Saturday in the bible. The Hebrew days of the week go off God's nomenculture for the days of the week *GENESIS 1. There is only; day 1; day 2; day 3; day 4; day 5; day 6 (preparation day before the Sabbath) and the Sabbath day (day 7).

Day 1 is the equivallent to our Sunday through to day 7 which is God's Sabbath is our Saturday today. We cannot change the day as God already blessed it and set it aside as a holy day of rest *GENESIS 2:1-3 that he commands us to keep Holy.

There is no arbitary name calling. The Sabbath has been kept for 6000 years unbroken from the Jews, JESUS and all the apostles and all God's people to this very present day.

No need to guess what day is the seventh day brother of God's 4th commandment as it is already known and the Jews have been keeping it for 1000's of years.

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Stevicus said:

All of this appears to rest upon your claim that "Day 1 is the equivalent to our Sunday." This is the point I'm trying to address. Who decided that "Day 1 is the equivalent to our Sunday." When was it decided, and how was that conclusion reached?

From your OP, it seemed you were chiding those who go to church on Sunday and consider that day the Sabbath, while claiming that there's nothing in Scripture or any real justification for breaking God's 4th commandment (by going to church on Sunday). Isn't that what you're arguing?

So, along the same lines as your argument, I'm asking, where does it say in Scripture that Sunday is the first day of the week? It's not enough to simply say "Day 1 is the equivalent to our Sunday." I mean, that's awfully convenient, isn't it? Especially if you're accusing people of violating the 4th commandment. I would think you'd want to have something a bit more solid than just an arbitrary pronouncement.

In our culture, Saturday and Sunday are considered together as the "weekend." This would indicate that Sunday is part of the end of the week, which would mean it can't possibly be considered the beginning of the week. However, I would concede that many calendars still consider Sunday to be the "first day of the week," probably for the same reasons you're citing here, but that was something that a human decided. (And if you're still insisting that it's God's word, then I would still maintain that a human would have had to translate and interpret that word just the same.) Sunday was probably as good a day as any, but over time, the culture changed, along with our weekly routine to where Monday became the first work day or "business day," as some people call it. Saturday and Sunday became the weekend.

Some people, mainly out of reasons of tradition, want to continue with Sunday being the first day. That will probably remain the case, just as we probably won't ever switch to metric in my lifetime.

Still, what difference does it make? Saturday, Sunday, or whatever day? Since most people don't work on Saturday, they're at least conforming to that part of the 4th commandment. And they're supposed to "keep it holy," although I guess that can be interpreted in any number of ways. (Some people say it gives them license to act like jerks the other 6 days out of the week, but they'll always "keep it holy" on Sabbath day.)

So, at least in terms of conforming to the exact letter of the 4th commandment, then it seems that part is satisfied (unless they commit some unholy act).

But there's nothing in there that says they're not allowed to go to church on Sunday. If you're saying that they should be going to church on Saturday instead, I think some churches have that. I know the Catholic churches have a Saturday evening mass which people can attend in lieu of going on Sunday. They also have weekday morning masses, so one could conceivably go to church every day of the week. It's not required, but there's certainly no rule against it.

And as for the "no work" part of it, there are already exceptions made in that regard. Firefighters, police officers, healthcare personnel, along with numerous other occupations - some of them have to work on the Sabbath. Somebody has to do it. If there is a God, and if He is merciful, then I think He'd be reasonable enough to cut these people a break.

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3rdAngel said:

The Sabbath is a memorial and celebration of creation and God as our creator which God set aside from all the other days of the week, blessed and made as a holy day of rest for all mankind which God commands us to keep as a holy day of rest from our work.

HOW DO WE KEEP THE SABBATH?

WHAT DOES GOD'S 4TH COMMANDMENT SAY?

EXODUS 20:8-11
[8], Remember the SABBATH DAY, to KEEP IT HOLY. <Why?> Because God made it Holy for mankind and commands us to keep it as a Holy day)
[9], Six days shalt thou labor, and do all thy work:
[10], But the SEVENTH DAY IS THE SABBATH of the LORD thy God: in it thou shalt not do any work, thou, nor thy son, nor thy daughter, thy manservant, nor thy maidservant, nor thy cattle, nor thy stranger that is within thy gates: <WHY>
[11], For in six days the LORD made heaven and earth, the sea, and all that in them is, and rested the SEVENTH DAY: wherefore the LORD BLESSED THE SABBATH, and HALLOWED IT.

WHAT DAY IS GOD'S SABBATH?

v10 The SEVENTH DAY of the week. (Saturday)

WHEN DOES THE SEVENTH DAY OF THE WEEK START?

GENESIS 1:4-5
[4], And God saw the light, that it was good: and God divided the light from the darkness.
[5], And God called the light Day, and the darkness he called Night. And the evening and the morning were the first day.

A day in God's time is the night (darkness) and the light make up one day. The DAY in God's WORD starts at SUNSET and ends the following SUNSET. So God's 4th Commandment Sabbath would start Friday at SUNSET and end Saturday at SUNSET.

ALL UNECCESSARY WORK TO BE DONE BEFORE FRIDAY SUNSET

EXODUS 16:22-23
[22], And it came to pass, that on the sixth day they gathered twice as much bread, two omers for one man: and all the rulers of the congregation came and told Moses.
[23], And he said to them, This is that which the LORD has said, To morrow is the rest of the holy sabbath to the LORD: bake that which you will bake to day, and seethe that you will seethe; and that which remains over lay up for you to be kept until the morning.

MARK 15:42, And now when the even was come, because it was the preparation, that is, the day before the sabbath

The preparation day is the 6th day of the week. This includes preparing to stop all business and secular work as well as any domestic work; cooking, cleaning; shopping, buying and selling that can be done on any other day of the week.

IT IS LAWFUL TO DO GOOD ON THE SABBATH?

MATTHEW 12:5-12
[5], Or have you not read in the law, how that on the sabbath days the priests in the temple profane the sabbath, and are blameless?
[6], But I say to you, That in this place is one greater than the temple.
[7], But if you had known what this means, I will have mercy, and not sacrifice, you would not have condemned the guiltless.
[8], For the Son of man is Lord even of the sabbath day
[9], And when he was departed from there, he went into their synagogue:
[10], And, behold, there was a man who had his hand withered. And they asked him, saying, Is it lawful to heal on the sabbath days? that they might accuse him.
[11], And he said unto them, What man shall there be among you, that shall have one sheep, and if it fall into a pit on the sabbath day, will he not lay hold on it, and lift it out?
[12], How much then is a man better than a sheep? Therefore it is lawful to do well on the sabbath days.

MARK 2:27, And he said unto them, The sabbath was made for man, and not man for the sabbath

It is lawful to do good on the Sabbath.

WHAT IS LAWFUL ON GOD'S SABBATH?

1. Remembering the creator and his creation (Exod 20:8-11)
2. Rest from all unnecessary work (Ecodus 20:10-11)
3. Doing good (Matt 12:12)
4. Prayer (Acts 16:13; Matt 21:13)
5. Worship the creator (Isaiah 58:13-14; Ex 34:14; 1KING 9:6; Rev 14:6-12)

Song, praise, bible study, helping others, preaching the gospel, resting, prayer, seeking God, remembering the creator and his creation. Walking in nature, going to church with like minded believers. (too many scriptures)

WHAT IS NOT LAWFUL ON GOD'S SABBATH?

WORK; all business and secular work as well as any domestic work; cooking, cleaning; shopping, buying and selling that can be done on any other day of the week and anything to do with work (Exodus 20:8-11; Ex 16:22-23; Matt 21:13).

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There is no purpose in FOLLOWING any of God's LAWs including the SABBATH if it is NOT done through FAITH that works by LOVE because it is ONLY as GOD writes his LAW to LOVE then we can take up our beds to follow him. LOVE is the fulfilling of GOd's LAW in those who BELIEVE (Rom 13:8-10)



God bless.

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InChrist said:

Thanks for your perspectives. You didn’t answer my question though. Maybe I wasn’t very clear. I was asking what do you personally do on the Sabbath? Stay home? Go anywhere?
I didn’t say Jesus was the Sabbath. I said He is our REST because that is and always was the pint and purpose of the Sabbath,.. to foreshadow Christ and the rest believers have in His finished work on the cross.
If the Sabbath was/is required for Gentile believers why didn’t the apostles say so at the Jerusalem council when they discussed issues concerning Gentile believers? (Acts 15) According to the scriptures, in the meeting the apostles determined that Gentiles believers should abstain from foods sacrificed to idols, meat from strangled animals, from blood
and from sexual immorality. Paul also stated that keeping the Sabbath was a matter of freedom in Christ and that we are not to judge one another with regard to the Sabbath , food, or other religious festivals.

Could you provide examples from the Bible of people keeping or being told to keep the Sabbath before God gave the instruction to Moses?

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3rdAngel said:

Hi all,

The challenge I am putting up here in this OP is for anyone to show even one scripture that says God's 4th Commandment of the 10 commandments (Exodus 20:8-11) which was spoken and written by God himself to his people, has been abolished and we are now commanded to keep Sunday (or the first day of the week) as a Holy day.

Can anyone please show me where in all the bible does is say (SOLA SCRIPTURA; Scripture only please)...

1. That God's 4th commandments 7th day Sabbath has been abolished?

2. That Jesus is a Sabbath?

3. The Sabbath (seventh day) was ever changed from the seventh to the first day of the week?

4. Where we are told to keep the first day of the week holy?

5. Where the first day of the week (Sunday) is ever called a holy day?

6. That says that Jesus ever kept the first day (Sunday)?

7. That tells us to keep the first day in honour of the resurrection of Christ?

8. Where the first day is ever given any sacred name?

9. That affirms that any of the apostles ever kept the first day as the Sabbath?

10. From any apostolic writings that authorizes Sunday observance as the Sabbath of God?

11. Where we are told not to work on the first day of the week?

12. That says the seventh day is no longer God's Sabbath day?

13. That says the seventh day Sabbath is ABOLISHED?

14. Where the apostles ever taught any convert to keep the first day of the week as a Sabbath?

15. Where the first day was ever appointed to be kept as the Lord's Day?

16. Where the first day of the week is ever called the Lord's Day?

17. That says that the first day of the week was ever sanctified and hallowed as a day of rest?

18. That says that the Father or the Son (Jesus) rested on the first day of the week?

19. That says that Jesus, Paul or any other of the apostles taught anyone to observe the first day of the week as the Sabbath?

20. That calls the seventh day the “Jewish Sabbath” or one text that calls Sunday the “Christian Sabbath”?

21. Telling man to keep the first day of the week holy or to worship or rest on the first day of the week?

22. Authorizing anyone to set aside God's Sabbath and observe any other day?

23. Showing any of the apostles keeping the first day of the week as the Sabbath?

24. Authorizing someone to set aside the fourth Commandment and observe any other day of the week?

25. Where any apostle taught us to keep the first day of the week as the Sabbath?

26. Declaring that the seventh day is no longer the Eternal Sabbath day?

27. Where Sunday is now appointed to be kept as the New Testament Sabbath or holy day?

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Something to think about here because we are all accountable to God come judgment day where we will all be judged by the Word of God (John 12:47-48).

God's Word makes it very clear that if we follow the teachings of men over the Word of God we are not following God...

MATTHEW 15:3-9 [3],
[3], But he answered and said unto them, Why do you also transgress the commandment of God by your tradition?
[4], For God commanded, saying, Honor your father and mother: and, He that curses father or mother, let him die the death.
[5], But you say, Whosoever shall say to his father or his mother, It is a gift devoted to God, whatsoever you might have received from me;
[6], And honors not his father or his mother, he shall be free. Thus have you made the commandment of God void by your tradition.
[7], You hypocrites, well did Isaiah prophesy of you, saying,
[8], These people draw near unto me with their mouth, and honor me with their lips; but their heart is far from me.
[9], But in vain they do worship me, teaching for doctrines the commandments of men.

If we are KNOWINGLY breaking ANY of God's commandments we are not worshipping God.

Look forward to your thoughts...

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Milton Platt said:

Look, all denominations are filled with "buffet Christians" who choose and pick the things they like from scripture and ignore the parts they don't like.
When is the last time you heard a minister get up on the pulpit and extol the laws describing how do buy and treat slaves?

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Thief said:

and when have you heard...???
DO NOT suck up to your boss and call him LORD

is it not written.....Do not conform to this world
BE transformed by it

conformity is a sure fire ticket to hell

but thanks to Paul the Apostle (who never met Jesus)
we have instruction …
to serve your master is the SAME as serving your Master

pick and choose the lines you prefer...???

I say.....yeah do so

that you are NOT deceived is a line drawn by YOU
not scripture

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Milton Platt said:

I have no idea what your point is

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Thief said:

it was pointed out.....how believers pick and choose the script they prefer

and I work alongside people who have claimed to know the Lord
and then turn around and nod their heads to this life

HYPOCRISY!!!!!

man made traditions
follow us into heaven?

I think not

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Milton Platt said:

Look, all denominations are filled with "buffet Christians" who choose and pick the things they like from scripture and ignore the parts they don't like.
When is the last time you heard a minister get up on the pulpit and extol the laws describing how do buy and treat slaves?

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