Evidence That Jesus Is God

THE Art Vandelay · Oct 23, 2019

BilliardsBall said:
Because you've created a new idea (or if you like, HERESY) by creating a nebulous term I cannot find in orthodox Christian literature of the last 2,000 years.

Make sure I understand, though?

Jesus isn't a mere HUMAN
Jesus isn't an angel
Jesus isn't both HUMAN and GOD (about 500 Bible verses and Bible prophecies come to mind, at least)
Jesus isn't GOD at all, not even a bit

GOD
Jesus (an "I dunno", what that no one has named in 2,000 years, a close second)
ANGELS
PEOPLE

So, for example, calling Him the LORD JESUS CHRIST, when I'd NEVER call ANYONE but God LORD, I AM, MASTER, since I'm a JEW, is a Bible "error". Baal is not LORD, a rabbi isn't LORD.

So that you understand, your way of thinking is basically heretical in nature, completely contradictory to the teachings of the Bible. NOTHING in the Bible in any way promotes the notion of Jesus being both "HUMAN and GOD". When Jesus was on earth, he was completely and fully human. Prior to coming to earth, and upon returning to heaven, Jesus was a spirit being, one whose position has always been second to that of his own God and Father. The term "lord" doesn't equate to God, except in the case of the absurd King James translation in which God's personal name was removed out of superstition and replaced with "LORD".

JJ50 · Oct 23, 2019

THE Art Vandelay said:
So that you understand, your way of thinking is basically heretical in nature, completely contradictory to the teachings of the Bible. NOTHING in the Bible in any way promotes the notion of Jesus being both "HUMAN and GOD". When Jesus was on earth, he was completely and fully human. Prior to coming to earth, and upon returning to heaven, Jesus was a spirit being, one whose position has always been second to that of his own God and Father. The term "lord" doesn't equate to God, except in the case of the absurd King James translation in which God's personal name was removed out of superstition and replaced with "LORD".

Garbage, imo!

lukethethird · Oct 23, 2019

Skwim said:
.

Looking through the Bible the closest thing I could find is that at most Jesus was the son of god. In fact, several times Jesus made a distinction between god and himself. (The notion that he was one of "three coeternal consubstantial persons" wasn't finally formulated until 381AD.)
.

Nobody knows. For those claiming that Jesus was human, did any of the New Testament authors have a particular Jesus in mind when they wrote their theology? They may have, they may not have.

THE Art Vandelay · Oct 23, 2019

JJ50 said:
Garbage, imo!

Yes, that describes your response perfectly!

JJ50 · Oct 23, 2019

THE Art Vandelay said:
Yes, that describes your response perfectly!

You have not one shred of evidence to support your response.

Riders · Oct 23, 2019

Worshipping the flesh of jesus to me is idolatry its what Christianity is demanding the literal physical interpretation of the bible.

THE Art Vandelay · Oct 23, 2019

JJ50 said:
You have not one shred of evidence to support your response.

I sure do. Your last statement is evidence enough.

BilliardsBall · Oct 24, 2019

THE Art Vandelay said:
So that you understand, your way of thinking is basically heretical in nature, completely contradictory to the teachings of the Bible. NOTHING in the Bible in any way promotes the notion of Jesus being both "HUMAN and GOD". When Jesus was on earth, he was completely and fully human. Prior to coming to earth, and upon returning to heaven, Jesus was a spirit being, one whose position has always been second to that of his own God and Father. The term "lord" doesn't equate to God, except in the case of the absurd King James translation in which God's personal name was removed out of superstition and replaced with "LORD".

As a Jew, I'm aware (was painfully so before my conversion):

* Thomas knelt to Christ and called him "my Lord and my GOD"

* Jesus was crucified for swearing by the Father that He is the I AM on the right hand of the Father and Judge at Armageddon (Daniel 12). The Pharisees/Saducees called for crucifixion for the sole charge--blasphemy (biblical blasphemy is equating oneself with GOD).

* The Pharisees testified multiple times that NO MAN CAN FORGIVE SIN, ONLY GOD CAN.

* There are numerous verses in BOTH testaments explaining how Messiah is God/Jesus is Messiah/Jesus is GOD -- examples abound like Isaiah 9 (ETERNAL FATHER, MIGHTY GOD) or Luke 1 (Mary says of her pregnancy, behold, GOD my SAVIOR).

* The "crime" on Jesus's cross was an acronym in Hebrew, YHVH!

* Etc., etc.

All you've told me, besides using ZERO Bible verses to support your stance, is that you don't know what Jesus is, other than He's in a category not-God-not-angel-not-mere-man and somehow theologians failed to identify this category across two millennia. How can you assume a doctrine for which there's not even a doctrinal NAME and claim you are innocent of promoting a heresy?

THE Art Vandelay · Oct 24, 2019

BilliardsBall said:
As a Jew, I'm aware (was painfully so before my conversion):

* Thomas knelt to Christ and called him "my Lord and my GOD"

* Jesus was crucified for swearing by the Father that He is the I AM on the right hand of the Father and Judge at Armageddon (Daniel 12). The Pharisees/Saducees called for crucifixion for the sole charge--blasphemy (biblical blasphemy is equating oneself with GOD).

* The Pharisees testified multiple times that NO MAN CAN FORGIVE SIN, ONLY GOD CAN.

* There are numerous verses in BOTH testaments explaining how Messiah is God/Jesus is Messiah/Jesus is GOD -- examples abound like Isaiah 9 (ETERNAL FATHER, MIGHTY GOD) or Luke 1 (Mary says of her pregnancy, behold, GOD my SAVIOR).

* The "crime" on Jesus's cross was an acronym in Hebrew, YHVH!

* Etc., etc.

All you've told me, besides using ZERO Bible verses to support your stance, is that you don't know what Jesus is, other than He's in a category not-God-not-angel-not-mere-man and somehow theologians failed to identify this category across two millennia. How can you assume a doctrine for which there's not even a doctrinal NAME and claim you are innocent of promoting a heresy?

The ONLY promotion of heresy is on your part, which accompanies a rather appalling ignorance of the Bible. (1) Thomas did not call Jesus God. For one thing, one of the last verses in the gospel account of Jesus appearing in that room with Thomas makes reference to the fact that it was recorded so they may know Jesus as the SON of God, NOT God himself. For another, Thomas was undoubtedly in attendance with the others at Jesus' ascension to heaven, of which right before he left he told the disciples (as recorded at John 20:17) "....I am ascending to my Father and your Father and to my God and your God". Jesus worshiped the same God his disciples did. (2) Jesus never referred to himself as the "I AM", and it was the Pharisees/Saducees who made the charge of blasphemy against him, of which he was completely innocent, since he never equated himself to God. (3) There are ZERO scriptures in the Bible remotely implying that the Messiah (Jesus) would be God. (3) Jesus was not put to death on a "cross".

Etc, etc.....

BilliardsBall · Oct 25, 2019

THE Art Vandelay said:
The ONLY promotion of heresy is on your part, which accompanies a rather appalling ignorance of the Bible. (1) Thomas did not call Jesus God. For one thing, one of the last verses in the gospel account of Jesus appearing in that room with Thomas makes reference to the fact that it was recorded so they may know Jesus as the SON of God, NOT God himself. For another, Thomas was undoubtedly in attendance with the others at Jesus' ascension to heaven, of which right before he left he told the disciples (as recorded at John 20:17) "....I am ascending to my Father and your Father and to my God and your God". Jesus worshiped the same God his disciples did. (2) Jesus never referred to himself as the "I AM", and it was the Pharisees/Saducees who made the charge of blasphemy against him, of which he was completely innocent, since he never equated himself to God. (3) There are ZERO scriptures in the Bible remotely implying that the Messiah (Jesus) would be God. (3) Jesus was not put to death on a "cross".

Etc, etc.....

Huh?

Then He *said to Thomas, “Reach here with your finger, and see My hands; and reach here your hand and put it into My side; and do not be unbelieving, but believing.” 28 Thomas answered and said to Him, “My Lord and my God!” 29 Jesus *said to him, “Because you have seen Me, have you believed? Blessed are they who did not see, and yet believed.”

“I am the bread of life.” (John 6:35, 41, 48, 51) As bread sustains physical life, so Christ offers and sustains spiritual life.
“I am the light of the world.” (John 8:12) To a world lost in darkness, Christ offers Himself as a guide.
“I am the door of the sheep.” (John 10:7,9) Jesus protects His followers as shepherds protect their flocks from predators.
“I am the resurrection and the life.” (John 11:25) Death is not the final word for those in Christ.
“I am the good shepherd.” (John 10:11, 14) Jesus is committed to caring and watching over those who are His.
“I am the way, the truth, and the life.” (John 14:6) Jesus is the source of all truth and knowledge about God.
“I am the true vine.” (John 15:1, 5) By attached ourselves to Christ, we enable His life to flow in and through us. Then we cannot help but bear fruit that will honor the Father.

"... Are you the MASHIACH? ... I AM, and will return with judgment... He has BLASPHEMED!"

Isaiah 9: Messiah is ETERNAL FATHER
Micah 5: Messiah is ETERNAL though born in Bethlehem
Etc.

littleme · Oct 25, 2019

I don't think the Bible should be taken seriously.

THE Art Vandelay · Oct 25, 2019

BilliardsBall said:
Huh?

Then He *said to Thomas, “Reach here with your finger, and see My hands; and reach here your hand and put it into My side; and do not be unbelieving, but believing.” 28 Thomas answered and said to Him, “My Lord and my God!” 29 Jesus *said to him, “Because you have seen Me, have you believed? Blessed are they who did not see, and yet believed.”

“I am the bread of life.” (John 6:35, 41, 48, 51) As bread sustains physical life, so Christ offers and sustains spiritual life.
“I am the light of the world.” (John 8:12) To a world lost in darkness, Christ offers Himself as a guide.
“I am the door of the sheep.” (John 10:7,9) Jesus protects His followers as shepherds protect their flocks from predators.
“I am the resurrection and the life.” (John 11:25) Death is not the final word for those in Christ.
“I am the good shepherd.” (John 10:11, 14) Jesus is committed to caring and watching over those who are His.
“I am the way, the truth, and the life.” (John 14:6) Jesus is the source of all truth and knowledge about God.
“I am the true vine.” (John 15:1, 5) By attached ourselves to Christ, we enable His life to flow in and through us. Then we cannot help but bear fruit that will honor the Father.

"... Are you the MASHIACH? ... I AM, and will return with judgment... He has BLASPHEMED!"

Isaiah 9: Messiah is ETERNAL FATHER
Micah 5: Messiah is ETERNAL though born in Bethlehem
Etc.

ROFL! So any person who says "I am......(such-n-such)" is declaring themselves to be God? Every single verse you just listed is an example of how wrong you are and how ignorant you are of the scriptures.

Muffled · Oct 25, 2019

Skwim said:
What is a correct doctrine of the Trinity?

.

Wrong Doctrine: three coeternal consubstantial persons.

I believe this is correct doctrine of the Trinity in that there are three members of it.

I believe this is true an not true depending on the definition of person. by the definition of personality, there is only one person. by the definition of a human being, there is only one, Jesus. By the definition that each has a different aspect of personhood, each can be viewed as a different person but it confuses people who think person means the same thing in each case.

I believe the Spirit of God in Jesus is co-eternal because it is the same Spirit that is the Father but the body of Jesus is temporal in His first coming and although eternal after the resurrection I believe that means timeless and that the body won't be around 50,000,000 years from now when the earth goes out of existence. The Paraclete (Holy Spirit) is temporal also coming into being after Jesus leaves and when He makes His appearance at Pentecost.

I believe if the Spirit of God can be considered a substance then all three members share it, However The Father does not have a body and Jesus does and the Paraclete has millions of bodies.

Muffled · Oct 25, 2019

littleme said:
I don't think the Bible should be taken seriously.

I believe that is like saying you shouldn't take a fire seriously. You can just walk through it, right?

Muffled · Oct 25, 2019

THE Art Vandelay said:
ROFL! So any person who says "I am......(such-n-such)" is declaring themselves to be God? Every single verse you just listed is an example of how wrong you are and how ignorant you are of the scriptures.

I believe He said it in context answering the question of: Who do you think you are?

THE Art Vandelay · Oct 25, 2019

Muffled said:
I believe He said it in context answering the question of: Who do you think you are?

No, he didn't.

BilliardsBall · Oct 28, 2019

THE Art Vandelay said:
ROFL! So any person who says "I am......(such-n-such)" is declaring themselves to be God? Every single verse you just listed is an example of how wrong you are and how ignorant you are of the scriptures.

I didn't say or imply such nonsense.

What I said was, for one key example,--the Christ was crucified for the crime of blasphemy, equating a man with God.

THE Art Vandelay · Oct 28, 2019

BilliardsBall said:
I didn't say or imply such nonsense.

What I said was, for one key example,--the Christ was crucified for the crime of blasphemy, equating a man with God.

You did imply that nonsense, outrightly and clearly. Then you furthered it with the absurd way in which you tried to apply that nonsensical idea to those verses you quoted. The fact is, Jesus never equated himself with God. He was simply accused of it because in the minds of the Jewish religious leaders, his claim of being God's Son was in some way equal to being God.

BilliardsBall · Oct 29, 2019

THE Art Vandelay said:
You did imply that nonsense, outrightly and clearly. Then you furthered it with the absurd way in which you tried to apply that nonsensical idea to those verses you quoted. The fact is, Jesus never equated himself with God. He was simply accused of it because in the minds of the Jewish religious leaders, his claim of being God's Son was in some way equal to being God.

The Bible directly states that Jesus is God in a number of passages.1 Taken by themselves, these verses provide enough evidence for the church to believe in and teach the deity of Jesus Christ. But the indirect evidence of Scripture is equally compelling.

The names of God are often applied to Jesus. He is called "the Mighty God, the Everlasting Father" and "Immanuel" (meaning "God with us").2 Elsewhere Jesus is called "The Lord (Jehovah) our Righteousness," "God" and "Son of God."3

The Bible ascribes the characteristics of deity to Jesus Christ. He is described as eternal, omnipresent, omniscient, omnipotent and immutable.4

Jesus Christ is equal with God the Father. He is worshiped as God.5 His name is assigned equal standing with God the Father in the church's baptismal formula and in the apostolic benediction.6

Christ performed works which only God can do. He is creator.7 He is the upholder of all things.8 He forgives sin.9 He will raise the dead and execute judgment.10

Jesus Christ Himself claimed deity. He taught His disciples to pray in His name.11 He claimed that He and the Father were one and that He was the Son of God.12 He claimed that to know Him was to know God, to see Him was to see God, to receive Him was to receive God, to believe Him was to believe in God and to honor Him was to honor God, while to hate Him was to hate God.13

1 John 1:1, 20:28; Romans 9:5; Phil. 2:6; Titus 2:13, Hebrews 1:8; 1 John 5:20. Other passages include John 13:3, 17:5, Colossians 1:15–19, 1 Timothy 3:16, and Hebrews 1:3

2 Isaiah 9:6; Isaiah 7:14 and Matthew 1:22–23

3 Jeremiah 23:6; Isaiah 40:3; Hebrews 1:8; 1 Timothy 3:16; John 10:36

4 Eternal (Isaiah 9:6; Micah 5:2; John 1:1–2; 8:58; 17:5; 24; Colossians 1:15, 17; 1 John 1:1; Revelation 1:8); omnipresent (Matthew 18:20; 28:20; John 3:13); omniscient (John 2:24, 25; 16:30; 21:17; Revelation 2:23); omnipotent (Isaiah 9:6; Philippians 3:21; Revelation 1:8; cf. John 5:17; Hebrews 1:3; Matthew 28:18) and immutable (Hebrews 1:10–12; 13:8)

5 John 20:28; Acts 7:59; Hebrews 1:6; cf. Exodus 34:14 and Matthew 4:10

6 Matthew 28:19; cf. Acts 2:38; 2 Corinthians 13:14; cf. 1 Corinthians 1:3, Ephesians 1:2

7 John 1:3, 10; Colossians 1:16; Hebrews 1:2,10

8 Colossians 1:17; Hebrews 1:3; cf. Luke 10:22; John 3:35; 17:2; Ephesians 1:22

9 Matthew 9:2–7; cf. Mark 2:7; Luke 7:47, 48; Colossians 3:13

10 John 11:25; cf. John 5:25, 28–29; 6:39, 40, 54; John 5:22

11 John 16:23, 24

12 John 10:30, 36; 14:9; 17:11

13 John 8:18; 14:7; John 12:45; 14:9; Mark 9:37; John 12:44; 14:1; John 5:23; John 15:23

Source: The Deity of Jesus | Moody Bible Institute

THE Art Vandelay · Oct 29, 2019

BilliardsBall said:
The Bible directly states that Jesus is God in a number of passages.1 Taken by themselves, these verses provide enough evidence for the church to believe in and teach the deity of Jesus Christ. But the indirect evidence of Scripture is equally compelling.

The names of God are often applied to Jesus. He is called "the Mighty God, the Everlasting Father" and "Immanuel" (meaning "God with us").2 Elsewhere Jesus is called "The Lord (Jehovah) our Righteousness," "God" and "Son of God."3

The Bible ascribes the characteristics of deity to Jesus Christ. He is described as eternal, omnipresent, omniscient, omnipotent and immutable.4

Jesus Christ is equal with God the Father. He is worshiped as God.5 His name is assigned equal standing with God the Father in the church's baptismal formula and in the apostolic benediction.6

Christ performed works which only God can do. He is creator.7 He is the upholder of all things.8 He forgives sin.9 He will raise the dead and execute judgment.10

Jesus Christ Himself claimed deity. He taught His disciples to pray in His name.11 He claimed that He and the Father were one and that He was the Son of God.12 He claimed that to know Him was to know God, to see Him was to see God, to receive Him was to receive God, to believe Him was to believe in God and to honor Him was to honor God, while to hate Him was to hate God.13

1 John 1:1, 20:28; Romans 9:5; Phil. 2:6; Titus 2:13, Hebrews 1:8; 1 John 5:20. Other passages include John 13:3, 17:5, Colossians 1:15–19, 1 Timothy 3:16, and Hebrews 1:3

2 Isaiah 9:6; Isaiah 7:14 and Matthew 1:22–23

3 Jeremiah 23:6; Isaiah 40:3; Hebrews 1:8; 1 Timothy 3:16; John 10:36

4 Eternal (Isaiah 9:6; Micah 5:2; John 1:1–2; 8:58; 17:5; 24; Colossians 1:15, 17; 1 John 1:1; Revelation 1:8); omnipresent (Matthew 18:20; 28:20; John 3:13); omniscient (John 2:24, 25; 16:30; 21:17; Revelation 2:23); omnipotent (Isaiah 9:6; Philippians 3:21; Revelation 1:8; cf. John 5:17; Hebrews 1:3; Matthew 28:18) and immutable (Hebrews 1:10–12; 13:8)

5 John 20:28; Acts 7:59; Hebrews 1:6; cf. Exodus 34:14 and Matthew 4:10

6 Matthew 28:19; cf. Acts 2:38; 2 Corinthians 13:14; cf. 1 Corinthians 1:3, Ephesians 1:2

7 John 1:3, 10; Colossians 1:16; Hebrews 1:2,10

8 Colossians 1:17; Hebrews 1:3; cf. Luke 10:22; John 3:35; 17:2; Ephesians 1:22

9 Matthew 9:2–7; cf. Mark 2:7; Luke 7:47, 48; Colossians 3:13

10 John 11:25; cf. John 5:25, 28–29; 6:39, 40, 54; John 5:22

11 John 16:23, 24

12 John 10:30, 36; 14:9; 17:11

13 John 8:18; 14:7; John 12:45; 14:9; Mark 9:37; John 12:44; 14:1; John 5:23; John 15:23

Source: The Deity of Jesus | Moody Bible Institute

The Bible NEVER, in any way, shape, or form remotely implies or states that Jesus is God. What it states is that Jesus is the created Son of God (Colossians 1:15, Revelation 3:14). What it states is that Jesus always openly acknowledged his lesser position in relation to his God, the God that Jesus and his disciples all worshiped. "The father is greater than I am", he said. John chapter 17 is an entire prayer from Jesus to God. God's own voice spoke from heaven on 3 occasions expressing his own approval for his Son, including on the occasion of Jesus' baptism. How absurd to think that Jesus was approving of himself.

Matthew 16:16 shows that Jesus' own closest followers, his apostles all acknowledged that Jesus wasn't God, but the Son of God. Revelation 1:1 shows the chain of custody (so to speak) of the revelation that was given to the apostle John, and it began with God who gave it to Jesus.......showing the separateness between God and Jesus.

The Bible's use of the term "Almighty God" has never been applies to Jesus, but to God alone. Jesus always acknowledged that the things he taught and preached were not from him, but from the one who sent him. Jesus never claimed deity, nor was he ever worshiped in scripture.

Evidence That Jesus Is God

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