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There is a Challenge to Christians!

Kenny

Face to face with my Father
Premium Member
Screen Shot 2019-10-28 at 3.16.53 PM.png


Ok Christians... they say we are soooo different so I am asking the "specifics" to see how different we are. !0 different answers for 10 different Christians, I am told.
 

Kenny

Face to face with my Father
Premium Member
Those aren't specifics but very generalized things about Christianity, generally what makes someone a Christian to begin with. Why not link to the original post so we can have full context?
Not specific because you say so? I find the questions VERY specific. It isn't Buddha sitting at the right hand... it isn't the Holy Spirit seated at the right hand.

It isn't arch angel Michael who died for our sins. It isn't Krishna who died for our sins.

And the post is in the OP
 

Hawkins

Well-Known Member
View attachment 33877

Ok Christians... they say we are soooo different so I am asking the "specifics" to see how different we are. !0 different answers for 10 different Christians, I am told.

You missed the big picture. What Jesus won is an subjective judgment from the fairness of God where law failed to achieve. To simply put, what God earns through Jesus is the right to save whoever He seems valid in terms of His subjective fairness, as the Law will fail in identifying correctly, law will deem every single human as dead.

That said. Calling upon the name of Jesus sets the baseline for salvation. The standard as whole is mentioned in the Bible. In the end it's up to Jesus to decide fairly on each individual's salvation. How varied humans in comprehending will not affect the fairness of this judgment.
 

Shadow Wolf

Certified People sTabber
Not specific because you say so? I find the questions VERY specific. It isn't Buddha sitting at the right hand... it isn't the Holy Spirit seated at the right hand.
What makes people Christian is they believe Christ died for their sins, and his resurrection. Of course with those you won't find much variation. If you could, please link to the original post so we can know better what this "challenge" was asking.
 

Kenny

Face to face with my Father
Premium Member
You missed the big picture. What Jesus won is an subjective judgment from the fairness of God where law failed to achieve. To simply put, what God earns through Jesus is the right to save whoever He seems valid in terms of His subjective fairness, as the Law will fail in identifying correctly, law will deem every single human as dead.

That said. Calling upon the name of Jesus sets the baseline for salvation. The standard as whole is mentioned in the Bible. In the end it's up to Jesus to decide fairly on each individual's salvation. How varied humans in comprehending will not affect the fairness of this judgment.

I noticed that you didn't answer the questions directly, didn't mention if you were a Christian and if so, what denomination.

Care to participate on the questions if you are a Christian?
 

Kenny

Face to face with my Father
Premium Member
What makes people Christian is they believe Christ died for their sins, and his resurrection. Of course with those you won't find much variation. If you could, please link to the original post so we can know better what this "challenge" was asking.
Please look at the OP where Zen Monkey makes the statement (above). It was in the Christian Atheist thread where he jumped around and never answered any of my statements.
 

Windwalker

Veteran Member
Premium Member
Sure, I'll answer these from a different Christian perspective than the conservative evangelical view.

1. Did Jesus die on the cross for mankind?​

Sure. But what do you mean by that? Died in what way, and for what end goal?

You see, there are a lot of ways that can be understood, that is not the standard substitutionary theory that came into Christian thought beginning with Anselm of Canterbury in the 11th century. There is no valid reason to consider that view of God as a legal contract that blood settles payment of debt, would have been understood like that by 1st century Christians or Jews.

How would he have died for mankind then? How would anyone who would give their lives to for the sake of others, like a Martin Luther King, or a Mahatma Gandhi? They sacrificed their lives for the sake of love and others too. They died for mankind's sake too.

2. Did he resurrect from the dead?​

Metaphorically speaking, yes. Literally as a reanimated corpse? No. To believe that is not necessary. It's not about believing in the walking dead or not. It's about the meaning of what that symbol is meant to signify. What is the meaning of raising from the dead with Christ? Is that only about your rotted corpse coming back to life?

Death and resurrection is a common metaphor for a reborn life, where we die to the old self and begin life anew as with a new mind, a new heart, and a new vision of reality. It's not about the flesh, but the spirit alive within the flesh, here and now. Do I believe in what it means to be "born again"? Yes. That is another term for Enlightenment.

3. Is he seated on the right hand of the Father?
This is clearly a symbolic reference to the position of authority and power, and not a literal hand. What meaning does that symbolically say to us? I would say that the person of Jesus is so aligned with the Spirit of God, that what you see in him represents God perfectly. That is what any Christian themselves should aspire to in their spiritual path to be like Jesus.

4. Is he coming again?
This can be understood with multiple meanings. In the sense that he was going to come back and finish what he started by reappearing physically and start a worldwide revolt, complete with bloodshed and a whole terrifying warmachine? No. Not in that sense, at all.

What does the coming of Jesus mean? Isn't that coming through the Spirit? Isn't the Spirit filling you, Christ returning? So the 2nd coming, could be the Christ awakening in everyone in the whole world. That could happen.
 

TransmutingSoul

Veteran Member
Premium Member
Not specific because you say so? I find the questions VERY specific. It isn't Buddha sitting at the right hand... it isn't the Holy Spirit seated at the right hand.

It isn't arch angel Michael who died for our sins. It isn't Krishna who died for our sins.

And the post is in the OP

That is where I can answer a big yes to all 4 questions and at the same time see that Krishna did the same, I see Krishna is also 'Christ'. Jesus Christ means Jesus 'The Annointed One', Annointed of the Holy Spirit. Christ is not a surname.

Thus Krishna is also Annointed by God, the same Holy Spirit, the First and the Last, the beginning and the end, the Alpha and Omega.

I see This is how Christ will bring the unity of all Mankind, when we drop our predudices against other Faiths and realise they are all of God. They are all the sheep to be gathered that were not of that fold, but then we realise there is One Flock, One Shepherd.

Now that puts a different view on the 4 questions, does it not :)

All the best Ken, may life an faith be very rewarding.

Regards Tony
 

Shadow Wolf

Certified People sTabber
Please look at the OP where Zen Monkey makes the statement (above). It was in the Christian Atheist thread where he jumped around and never answered any of my statements.
I saw what you provided as a screen shot, but I asked for a direct link to that.
 

1213

Well-Known Member
Those aren't specifics but very generalized things about Christianity, generally what makes someone a Christian to begin with. Why not link to the original post so we can have full context?

I think it is correct approach. If we look smaller details, then we get different sub-groups of Christianity. They all can be called Christianity, even if they are not exactly the same. Similarly, as atheists can be called atheists, even if they have different opinions about economy, or different clothes and hairdo.

I think only socialists/communists/Marxists require absolute similarity, that all dress the same way, have all hairs cut and speak the same way and think the same way, as modern “liberals” seem to think and do.
 

Dawnofhope

Non-Proselytizing Baha'i
Staff member
Premium Member
View attachment 33877

Ok Christians... they say we are soooo different so I am asking the "specifics" to see how different we are. !0 different answers for 10 different Christians, I am told.

There’s plenty of research around that clearly demonstrates the diversity of Christian beliefs. It used to be considered a belief in Jesus being literally resurrected was an essential non-negotiable Christian belief. Yet many who identify as Christian clearly don’t believe in a literal resurrection anymore.

A quarter of people who describe themselves as Christians in Great Britain do not believe in the resurrection of Jesus, a survey commissioned by the BBC suggests.

Resurrection beliefs laid bare in poll
 

lewisnotmiller

Grand Hat
Staff member
Premium Member
View attachment 33877

Ok Christians... they say we are soooo different so I am asking the "specifics" to see how different we are. !0 different answers for 10 different Christians, I am told.

I mean...why those questions, though? They're not the interesting ones (no offence)...these are more challenging in terms of specific belief.

Is Jesus distinct from God?
Do people have the ability to turn to God of their own initiative?
Do you gain Heaven through faith or works?
Does God reward and punish people on this earth based on faith?
Is transubstantiation literally real?
Can holiness reside in physical places/objects?
Describe 'Salvation'.
 

Regiomontanus

Ματαιοδοξία ματαιοδοξιών! Όλα είναι ματαιοδοξία.
View attachment 33877

Ok Christians... they say we are soooo different so I am asking the "specifics" to see how different we are. !0 different answers for 10 different Christians, I am told.


I am OK with all four...though I have some issues with 3 but only because of the anthropomorphism of it. But let's not get bogged down in those details. :grinning:
 

lewisnotmiller

Grand Hat
Staff member
Premium Member
What makes people Christian is they believe Christ died for their sins, and his resurrection. Of course with those you won't find much variation. If you could, please link to the original post so we can know better what this "challenge" was asking.

I went back and looked. There really wasn't too much context apart from the question itself, so it comes down to how 'specific' you think specific is. I've posted what I'd see as useful questions above.
Incidentally, I agreed with @KenS (largely) in the original thread. However, JUST looking at this challenge, and not the rest of the context, I think there is a lot of variance amongst Christians, even within a denomination.
So...yeah....

But nothing is being misrepresented.

Original post : Christian Atheism
 
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