Animal genocide

Darkforbid · Oct 27, 2019

Amanaki said:
Chicken poop that's the best way to grow new vegetable food
Coming from a heritage of farmers who used this the knowledge is there yes

It has to composted first other wise it will burn your plants, but are you now saying farming chickens for their poo is fine?

SalixIncendium · Oct 27, 2019

Darkforbid said:
Just didn't want to imply your idiocy, all the vegetarians I know take supplements

So there is no nutrition deficit then, is there?

And while I take supplements, if a vegetarian manages their diet, s/he can lead a healthy and nutritional life without them.

Darkforbid said:
But if you want claim a subject that that is still being reasurched does not hold water, feel free

Thank you. I'll sleep better knowing I have your express written consent.

Darkforbid said:
And apparently the current destruction of forest for farmland doesn't happen because there's enough already

Most new farmland comes from cutting tropical forest, says Stanford researcher

This is incremental to our current diets, so this is entire irrelevant to the discussion. You have yet to provide any evidence that additional farmland would be needed if humans stopped eating meat.

80s fashion girl · Oct 27, 2019

Food animals raised on a farm where they are free to roam on green abundant pasture, where the farmer gives them fresh water as often as necessary, and a clean secure barn to go in when needed. That animal definitely has a better life than factory farmed animals (which should be outlawed IMO). Then the animals treated with care have one bad day--the end of their very good life, and betrayed by the person who cared for them so deeply.

Spirit of Light · Oct 27, 2019

Darkforbid said:
It has to composted first other wise it will burn your plants, but are you now saying farming chickens for their poo is fine?

No, it was an example that where there are animals (in the forest) there will be natural fertilizer to use, in no way was it said the animals should be domesticated.
If you look at some tribes in Africa who live in nature they collect the dung from animals to use as both their fire and to fertilizer. Using the nature resources but without harming the living beings

Darkforbid · Oct 27, 2019

Guitar's Cry said:
You forget that a massive amount of farmland used to grow food for animals would also be open for growing food for humans.

Most of crop production in Europe is heavily funded already,, but yes let's cut all the profit out of it so the poor can starve

Guitar's Cry · Oct 27, 2019

Darkforbid said:
Most of crop production in Europe is heavily funded already,, but yes let's cut all the profit out of it so the poor can starve

Huh? My post was pointing out that the farmland used to grow crops to feed animals to feed humans could then be used to directly feed humans.

PureX · Oct 27, 2019

Isn't our attempt at determining the rights of other life forms just another expression of our presumed dominion over them? Whether I kill an animal and eat it, or I decide that I should not, it's still me deciding the fate of the animal, ... because I can. And in fact, I MUST, because I must ingest other life forms to stay alive, myself.

Guitar's Cry · Oct 27, 2019

SalixIncendium said:
So there is no nutrition deficit then, is there?

And while I take supplements, if a vegetarian manages their diet, s/he can lead a healthy and nutritional life without them.

I personally have not needed to, but I am more flexitarian. Even in my more vegetarian times, I seem to manage well even with B12.

Guitar's Cry · Oct 27, 2019

PureX said:
Isn't our attempt at determining the rights of other life forms just another expression of our presumed dominion over them? Whether I kill an animal and eat it, or I decide that I should not, it's still me deciding the fate of the animal, ... because I can. And in fact, I MUST, because I must ingest other life forms to stay alive, myself.

Even more so, we presume our dominion over whole ecosystems and even the climate.

Darkforbid · Oct 27, 2019

Guitar's Cry said:
I personally have not needed to, but I am more flexitarian. Even in my more vegetarian times, I seem to manage well even with B12.

Why compear yourself with a vegetarian then

Brickjectivity · Oct 27, 2019

Augustus said:
If all humans stopped eating meat and other animal products, the numbers of certain animals would decline massively as they would no longer be farmed.

Assuming they are treated well while they are alive, is it more ethical to give these animals a chance at life (and perhaps reproduction) before they are slaughtered, or is it more ethical to prevent them from ever being born at all?

Why?

Eating is a violent action. I do not think anyone can show otherwise. Since the discovery of biology this has become increasingly clear. The question is not whether humans are violent but how we direct our violence.

I did not vote, because farm animals benefit from neither choice. They lost the genetic lottery and are farm animals, now. We also lost the genetic lottery and must live in houses. Its all fair.

SalixIncendium · Oct 27, 2019

Guitar's Cry said:
I personally have not needed to, but I am more flexitarian. Even in my more vegetarian times, I seem to manage well even with B12.

Indeed. There are many foods that are vegetarian that contain B12.

Dairy products
Eggs
****ake mushrooms
Fortified cereals

Vitamin B-12: Foods for Vegetarians

Spirit of Light · Oct 27, 2019

The other benefit from being vegetarian or vegan is the body fat will disappear even without physical workouts needed.
Before becoming vegan the weight of Amanaki was 97 kilos (213 pounds) After 4 months of only eating vegan food the weigh was 73 kilos (160 pounds) and the weight has stayed there.
Doctor say the current weight is a lot more healthy.

SalixIncendium · Oct 27, 2019

Amanaki said:
The other benefit from being vegetarian or vegan is the body fat will disappear even without physical workouts needed.

Tell that to my body fat.

Spirit of Light · Oct 27, 2019

SalixIncendium said:
Tell that to my body fat.

Maybe genetics has something to do with it? or metabolism ?

SalixIncendium · Oct 27, 2019

Amanaki said:
Maybe genetics has something to do with it? or metabolism ?

Metabolism definitely plays a role. Until I was in my mid 30s, I used to be able to eat whatever I wanted and stayed around 150 lbs. When I hit 40, my metabolism slowed but my appetite and love for food did not.

calm · Oct 27, 2019

Augustus said:
If all humans stopped eating meat and other animal products, the numbers of certain animals would decline massively as they would no longer be farmed.

Assuming they are treated well while they are alive, is it more ethical to give these animals a chance at life (and perhaps reproduction) before they are slaughtered, or is it more ethical to prevent them from ever being born at all?

Why?

This is not a "genocide".

The Most High says:
(Genesis 9:2-3 KJV)
And the fear of you and the dread of you shall be upon every beast of the earth, and upon every fowl of the air, upon all that moveth upon the earth, and upon all the fishes of the sea; into your hand are they delivered. 3 Every moving thing that liveth shall be meat for you; even as the green herb have I given you all things.

Animals are not humans, animals are animals.

SalixIncendium · Oct 27, 2019

calm said:
Animals are not humans, animals are animals.

Some animals are humans. All humans are animals.

England my lionheart · Oct 27, 2019

Augustus said:
If all humans stopped eating meat and other animal products, the numbers of certain animals would decline massively as they would no longer be farmed.

Assuming they are treated well while they are alive, is it more ethical to give these animals a chance at life (and perhaps reproduction) before they are slaughtered, or is it more ethical to prevent them from ever being born at all?

Why?

As far as the dairy industry goes it would be better if they weren't born at all but then we wouldn't have milk cream cheese etc.

The dairy industry is quite cruel to newborns,in New Zealand the calves are taken away from their mothers at birth,these calves used to be killed straight away but now bully calves are grown for beef giving them two years of life.

Apart from intensive farming which dairy farming is I think as long as you can give your animals the best life you can and kill them as humanly (for want of a better word) as possible at least they get a life.

On out farm in New Zealand our animals get to wander around the farmland and eat good grass without much human contact,these beef cattle at least have a few years doing what they were meant to.

One exception is Beyonce,she is a sterile cow and a pet.

Milton Platt · Oct 27, 2019

Amanaki said:
The best would be if all animals were free (as they were intended to be)
And that man did not try to rule over them.

Most domesticated animals never existed in their current form in the wild and can't survive on their own.
Many that could survive would be considered an invasive species.

Animal genocide

Is it better for farmyard animals if...

... they are never born at all

... they get a comfortable life before being killed for food

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