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He was a murderer from the beginning.

LightofTruth

Well-Known Member
Wonder away...….....
Wonder away...….....
If Mary's flesh was not sinful flesh then her flesh was as the flesh of those to be resurrected from the dead or translated from among the living. The Scripture says that those ones never die. They are made immortal.
Therefore Mary was immortal flesh when she was born.
Jesus says that in the resurrection they never marry. So Mary would have been the only one with immortal flesh who married and had children.
 

LightofTruth

Well-Known Member
If Mary's flesh was immortal then Jesus' flesh would have been like hers, immortal. And if Jesus' flesh was immortal then it would never die.
 

sooda

Veteran Member
If Mary's flesh was not sinful flesh then her flesh was as the flesh of those to be resurrected from the dead or translated from among the living. The Scripture says that those ones never die. They are made immortal.
Therefore Mary was immortal flesh when she was born.
Jesus says that in the resurrection they never marry. So Mary would have been the only one with immortal flesh who married and had children.

Fine.
 

LightofTruth

Well-Known Member
Dominion, in that Christ wilfully submitted to it. Christ had to wilfully give up His Spirit, else He wouldn't have died. (John 10:17-18) (Luke 23:46) Not dominion, in that death ever would hold Him.

When Eve was created Adam was not yet fallen. No sin in either Adam or Eve's flesh. Yes, since the fall, everyone born of Adam and Eve is a sinner.

Jesus was of the same flesh as Adam, just without sin. Just like Adam had before he sinned. Thus He is still of the human race, of Adam.

Well, that is what we are discussing. Was there sin in Adam before the fall? There was not. To say so, makes God creating a sinful person.

Concerning (Heb. 2:14), yes Jesus partook of flesh and blood. But flesh and blood without any sin. If there had been any sin in Christ, He could not be a Substitute.

Good-Ole-Rebel
Death had dominion over Jesus just as it has over all sons of Adam. Paul says that it is appointed unto all men once to die. Because Jesus was a son of Adam, he too had an appointment with death. Death did not hold him because His Father raised him from the dead. And death will not hold those who are faithful in Christ.

You need to clarify when you say "everyone born of Adam and Eve is a sinner." First of all ,sin is defined as transgression of the law of God. Now, God did not give His laws to all people. So anyone who is outside of God's covenant is not under God's laws. But they are under the law of sin and death by being son's of Adam.
That means that everyone is condemned in Adam whether they were given God's laws or not.

If God did not create Adam to be sinful then His plan would not have worked. If Adam was not sinful, then he would not have sinned. It's that simple.

Christ was not a substitute. A substitute refers to one taking the place of another. If Jesus died in my place, then I would not have to die. But everyone has an appointment with death.
 

Desert Snake

Veteran Member
Matthew says Jesus is a son of Abraham and David and his genealogy goes back to Adam. Jesus does not deny to be a son of David in Matt 22:37-46. Your interpretation is incorrect. David was a prophet and spoke of how his own son would be made his Lord when Jesus was resurrected to sit at the right hand of God.

Then you need to explain these verses.

Matthew 22:37-46

[ it isn't enough to say its a incorrect interpretation. Presumably Jesus is the authority, here, not your interpretation of something David said, or, another verse.

Matthew 22:42-45
 

LightofTruth

Well-Known Member
Then you need to explain these verses.

Matthew 22:37-46

[ it isn't enough to say its a incorrect interpretation. Presumably Jesus is the authority, here, not your interpretation of something David said, or, another verse.

Matthew 22:42-45

If Jesus was saying that he was not a son of David, then that would be in contradiction to many other Scriptures. I pointed out one, where Matthew says Jesus is a son of both Abraham and David.

Am I correct when I assume that you are saying that Jesus was not a son of David?
 

Good-Ole-Rebel

Well-Known Member
Death had dominion over Jesus just as it has over all sons of Adam. Paul says that it is appointed unto all men once to die. Because Jesus was a son of Adam, he too had an appointment with death. Death did not hold him because His Father raised him from the dead. And death will not hold those who are faithful in Christ.

You need to clarify when you say "everyone born of Adam and Eve is a sinner." First of all ,sin is defined as transgression of the law of God. Now, God did not give His laws to all people. So anyone who is outside of God's covenant is not under God's laws. But they are under the law of sin and death by being son's of Adam.
That means that everyone is condemned in Adam whether they were given God's laws or not.

If God did not create Adam to be sinful then His plan would not have worked. If Adam was not sinful, then he would not have sinned. It's that simple.

Christ was not a substitute. A substitute refers to one taking the place of another. If Jesus died in my place, then I would not have to die. But everyone has an appointment with death.

Jesus was not linked to Adam like you or I or anyone else is. The Virgin Birth broke that link. As a result He had no sin. As a result He would never have died. I showed you that He stated that no one takes His life from Him. He wilfully had to die, had to give up His Spirit.

Every one born of Adam and Eve is a sinner. There is transgression if there is law. If there is no law, there is no transgression. Just sin. I agree, everyone is condemned in Adam whether under law or not.

God did not create Adam and Eve as sinners. Did they have the possibility to sin? Yes. But they had no sin in them till they ate of the fruit. And Jesus had no sin in His flesh, else He could not be a Substitute.

Who paid for your sins? You or Christ? How did He pay? What were all the sacrifices in the Old Testament given for if not substitution. Why is Jesus the Lamb of God? Jesus is our Substitute. The believer has no appointment with the second death. Our bodies die due to our link with Adam. Your spirit was born again. Your body was not.

Good-Ole-Rebel
 

Desert Snake

Veteran Member
If Jesus was saying that he was not a son of David, then that would be in contradiction to many other Scriptures. I pointed out one, where Matthew says Jesus is a son of both Abraham and David.

Am I correct when I assume that you are saying that Jesus was not a son of David?
I'm saying that that is what Jesus is saying, Matthew 22:42-46, and it correlates to Psalms 110, anyway.

So, you need to explain these verses, or the other verses, or why there is a contradiction, or something. Because these verses clearly have Jesus noting the Christ as 'Lord',
1 Corinthians 8:6
 

LightofTruth

Well-Known Member
Jesus was not linked to Adam like you or I or anyone else is. The Virgin Birth broke that link. As a result He had no sin. As a result He would never have died. I showed you that He stated that no one takes His life from Him. He wilfully had to die, had to give up His Spirit.

Every one born of Adam and Eve is a sinner. There is transgression if there is law. If there is no law, there is no transgression. Just sin. I agree, everyone is condemned in Adam whether under law or not.

God did not create Adam and Eve as sinners. Did they have the possibility to sin? Yes. But they had no sin in them till they ate of the fruit. And Jesus had no sin in His flesh, else He could not be a Substitute.

Who paid for your sins? You or Christ? How did He pay? What were all the sacrifices in the Old Testament given for if not substitution. Why is Jesus the Lamb of God? Jesus is our Substitute. The believer has no appointment with the second death. Our bodies die due to our link with Adam. Your spirit was born again. Your body was not.

Good-Ole-Rebel
If Jesus would have never died then he would have been immortal, which means deathless. If he were deathless/immortal then he would not be subject to death. But he was, so he was not immortal.If he were not immortal then he was mortal.
By Jesus saying that he laid down his life does not mean he would not have died but that he willing obeyed His Father and did what was required of him.
Jesus was mortal because he, like all the rest of us, sinned in Adam. he, nor we, committed Adam's sin but yet we all were in him when he sinned. And that's why we, like Jesus was,are mortal.

Jesus paid for sins because God accepted his sacrifice to atone for sins.
 

LightofTruth

Well-Known Member
I'm saying that that is what Jesus is saying, Matthew 22:42-46, and it correlates to Psalms 110, anyway.

So, you need to explain these verses, or the other verses, or why there is a contradiction, or something. Because these verses clearly have Jesus noting the Christ as 'Lord',
1 Corinthians 8:6
There is a contradiction if Matthew says that Jesus is the son of David and Jesus in turn would say he was not.

But Jesus is not denying that he is a son of David he is simply asking the Pharisees how he could be David's Lord if he were his son.
And the answer is, Jesus was made Lord by his God and Father and has been exalted above all angels and men.
 

Sand Dancer

Crazy Cat Lady
Jesus said that their father, the devil, was a murderer from the beginning. Who did the devil murder?

Was it Adam? If so, how?

Was it Abel? If so, how?

I think he killed Job's family but with Yahweh's permission. So much is said about Satan's evil without any biblical back up.
 

Sand Dancer

Crazy Cat Lady
Don't you know? It's not God's fault people die. He doesn't kill them (as atheists widely believe). They die because Knowing Good and Evil is a poison. This is why God drove Adam and Eve out of the garden of Eden. Who instigated all of this? A snake which is usually believed to be the devil.

Therefore, the person the devil murders... is everyone.

The OT is full of Yahweh killing or ordering the killing of millions.
 

Sand Dancer

Crazy Cat Lady
I don't believe one can rightly call that which the Bible reveals as 'mythology'. It claims to be the Truth. Thus to me it is either the Truth or a lie.

Good-Ole-Rebel

Much of it was taken from previous religion/myth though, so it can be called myth as well. Just because some historical info is in the bible doesn't make it all historical.
 

Desert Snake

Veteran Member
There is a contradiction if Matthew says that Jesus is the son of David and Jesus in turn would say he was not.

But Jesus is not denying that he is a son of David he is simply asking the Pharisees how he could be David's Lord if he were his son.
And the answer is, Jesus was made Lord by his God and Father and has been exalted above all angels and men.
Matthew 1:18-20
The Bible, book of Matthew , directly says that Joseph isn't the father.
In other words, Jesus isn't a ben -adam, which matches the other verses, Matthew 22:37-46
 
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Good-Ole-Rebel

Well-Known Member
If Jesus would have never died then he would have been immortal, which means deathless. If he were deathless/immortal then he would not be subject to death. But he was, so he was not immortal.If he were not immortal then he was mortal.
By Jesus saying that he laid down his life does not mean he would not have died but that he willing obeyed His Father and did what was required of him.
Jesus was mortal because he, like all the rest of us, sinned in Adam. he, nor we, committed Adam's sin but yet we all were in him when he sinned. And that's why we, like Jesus was,are mortal.

Jesus paid for sins because God accepted his sacrifice to atone for sins.

Blasphemous statements. And BS.

Jesus was not in Adam. The Virgin Birth broke that line. Thus Jesus was not stained with Adams sin.

Mortal or immortal has nothing to do with death. Everyone born of Adam is immortal. Just because they die means nothing. They are immortal. Death does no affect it.

Because Jesus had no sin, and did not sin, He would never die. But He as God the Son, chose to die.

If Jesus was a sinner, He couldn't pay for any ones sins. He would have to pay for His own. If Jesus was a sinner, God would never accept His Sacrifice.

Good-Ole-Rebel
 
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