Like the American Revolution for example? It did all those things yet gave birth to the USA.
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Good and Evil
- Thread starter ZenMonkey
- Start date
Like the American Revolution for example? It did all those things yet gave birth to the USA.
Skwim
Veteran Member
And,
And it's good to send lions to attack and kill those who don't honor you.
If these things weren't good god wouldn't have done them. Right? So there's no confusion if you follow god's example of goodness. Go ahead and make slaves of others. Go ahead and kill those who don't follow your orders, And go ahead a kill those who don't honor you.
.
Preferred is simply what I like better. Now you might not like better what I like better---your good may not be my good, but that's okay. There's no need for some kind of absolute good. As for wickedness, its simply the quality or state of being wicked, which in the present context would be something purposely morally wrong.
Of course not because all one has to do is point a finger and say, "Because he says so. Case closed" God condones slavery therefore slavery has to be good. And it's good to kill people if they don't follow your instructions to a T.
Leviticus 10:1-2
1 Then Aaron’s sons Nadab and Abihu made a mistake. They took their incense dishes and put some fire and incense in them. But they did not use the fire that was on the altar—they took fire from some other place and brought it to the Lord. This was not what he had commanded. 2 So fire came from the Lord and destroyed Nadab and Abihu, and they died there in front of the Lord.
1 Then Aaron’s sons Nadab and Abihu made a mistake. They took their incense dishes and put some fire and incense in them. But they did not use the fire that was on the altar—they took fire from some other place and brought it to the Lord. This was not what he had commanded. 2 So fire came from the Lord and destroyed Nadab and Abihu, and they died there in front of the Lord.
And it's good to send lions to attack and kill those who don't honor you.
2 Kings 17:25
25 When these people began to live in Samaria, they did not honor the Lord, so the Lord sent lions to attack them. The lions killed some of them.
25 When these people began to live in Samaria, they did not honor the Lord, so the Lord sent lions to attack them. The lions killed some of them.
If these things weren't good god wouldn't have done them. Right? So there's no confusion if you follow god's example of goodness. Go ahead and make slaves of others. Go ahead and kill those who don't follow your orders, And go ahead a kill those who don't honor you.
.
Bird123
Well-Known Member
As I see it, Evil is a term that gives people an excuse to hate. Is hate something anyone really wants to choose? I think most will Discover that the price for Hate is always too high.
So how does God really define good and evil? Can a line dividing the two really concretely exist? In Reality, in God's system, there is no need to define them.
In God's learning system, everything returns to us in time to teach us what our choices really mean. Each will decide for themselves which are the good choices and the bad choices.
After one truly understands all sides, intelligence will make the Best choices. All those bad choices will no longer be viable choices to us. The result is everyone learns, grows and ever advances toward the Best choices. There is no need to judge. police, condemn or hate. All those petty things just disappear.
In a multilevel classroom as we live in, it is easy to see others making choices we could never choose. WE have learned and those choices are no longer viable choices for us. It might be easy to label those people as evil, condemning and hating them, however is that really the Best choice?
So if you ask me to define good and evil, the answer is simple. There has never been a need to define them because it is not the issue.
OK, that's what I am seeing. It seems so simple yet so intelligent to me. As I see it, there is Genius in all of God's moves.
Good-Ole-Rebel
Well-Known Member
Good and evil are forces behind what is done. What is done may be viewed as right or legal by man. That doesn't mean it is good. Evil may be behind it.
A pedophile may help a young girl across a busy street, which is right, but not good. His motive is evil.
Man's laws may be in conflict with God. Are they legal...of course. They are the law of the land. Are they good...no.
Good-Ole-Rebel
A pedophile may help a young girl across a busy street, which is right, but not good. His motive is evil.
Man's laws may be in conflict with God. Are they legal...of course. They are the law of the land. Are they good...no.
Good-Ole-Rebel
Human perception. Because humans choose to associate what they perceive as benevolent as good and what the perceive as malevolent as evil. FWIW, humans are likely the only species on earth with a concept of good and evil.
Is this going to be like a dance-off...Kevin Bacon style?
osgart
Nothing my eye, Something for sure
IMV,Good and evil is as obvious as night and day as to what they are. They are not magical forces. They are motivations and intents of the heart. Evil doesn't give a damn about fairness, or deserves. Evil cares not for merit. Evil murders the blameless.
Goodness is what builds the foundations of trust, and trustworthiness that are imperatives of any successful society. By honor, and compassion you learn to know what good people will do to defend, build, and preserve that which promotes life well being.
Goodness empowers virtue in humanity. Evil seeks to demoralize and destroy anything of virtue.
Evil produces wanton lust characterized by hatred. Never satisfied.
Goodness is that which produces trust and admiration.
They are antithetical.
Goodness is what builds the foundations of trust, and trustworthiness that are imperatives of any successful society. By honor, and compassion you learn to know what good people will do to defend, build, and preserve that which promotes life well being.
Goodness empowers virtue in humanity. Evil seeks to demoralize and destroy anything of virtue.
Evil produces wanton lust characterized by hatred. Never satisfied.
Goodness is that which produces trust and admiration.
They are antithetical.
Understanding "that there is a Creator" does absolutely nothing to resolve myriads of ambiguities. Try reading "The Importance of What We Care About" by Harry Frankfurt. Brilliant stuff, really.
The problem, so often, is that what might be considered a good for some, may equally well be considered an evil for others. The market in organ transplants is a pretty transparent example. There are, after all, very rich people willing to pay for a kidney that some very poor person might be persuaded to give up out of sheer necessity. And that necessity may well lead, later, to a death sentence for the "donor." (And by the way, in such a situation, I think it not wrong to ask, since death is the common end to us all, if simply prolonging life for some little while is such a great good after all.)
nPeace
Veteran Member
This is like asking, 'What's tall. What's short?' 'What's fat. What's thin?' 'What's 3 inches. What's 3 feet?'
I think everything has a standard of measure, usually set by someone.
The world has it's standard... or rather standards - since they vary from culture to culture.
The Bible seems to have a set standard, yet many read it and arrive at differences. I don't think this invalidates there being one standard, one measuring rod. I just think right now there is a thick cloud in the world.
Once that is removed, everyone will get to see clearly, how to measure accurately.
I think then, they will know who set the standard of good and evil.
dianaiad
Well-Known Member
OK, first....sometimes the social order is evil. Is it then evil to go against it?
As for destroying relationships....well....that depends on the relationship, doesn't it?
As for 'sowing discord,' well....hmmn. Sometimes yes, sometimes no...
'harms people?"
I'd agree with that, as long as "harm" is defined the same way by everybody involved...
Oh. and I figure that 'evil' is about motivation and choice, which lets out stuff like volcanoes, hurricanes, earthquakes and the like; stuff like that is often called 'evil,' but ....the only evil thing about them is what people do in response to, or in advance of, such events. IMO, of course.
So what is 'evil?"
Evil is the reason behind choices people make when they are out to deliberately hurt others.
Good is the reason behind choices people make when they decide to do things that help others.
Sometimes their choices don't work out, and harm comes from good intentions....and vice versa.
So.
Is that a simple answer?
If I may take your points here one at a time.....
"On the first point I might disagree ... depending on "social order"....
"Social order" operates largely on the Law of the Land, which is different in many nations. But for Christians (who have no nationality from God's standpoint) we are are commanded to 'obey the ruling authorities' (Romans 13:1) in whatever nation we reside, because God has allowed them to exist for the benefit of his worshippers.....otherwise there would be chaos and none of the things commanded by Christ could be accomplished.....like meeting for Christian worship or engaging in the preaching of the Kingdom. (Matthew 24:14; Matthew 28:19-20; Hebrews 10:23-25)
The second point...."destroys relationships"...yes "it takes two to tango", but even in relationships were just one is implementing Christian principles, there can be peace. If a relationship is poisoned by one of the parties being unconcerned for the welfare of the other, and there is an option to separate, then that is a good option to choose.
"On the third point I might disagree again (sows discord and harms people)....."Sometimes it's good to protest "
There is peaceful protest and there is violent protest. Making your voice heard should not ever mean resorting to the destruction of life and property. What does it accomplish in the face of what comes after?
"People have the right to defend themselves, even when it entails harming others or rather the aggressors who threaten harm on us."
This is not what Jesus taught, especially on a national scale. There is some leeway for personal self defense, but never with the intention to do harm. Loving our enemies does not entail doing them harm, even if they harm us. (Matthew 5:43-45) We are to pray for them, not join them in their violence. How does that make us better than them?
Since national violence is political, Christians are told that they cannot be "part of the world" (John 17:15-16) and that includes its political wars and divisions. We saw the folly of this in the two world wars of last century, where "Christians" on both sides of a political conflict slaughtered one another. True Christians cannot take up weapons to do harm to their fellow man for any reason.
"For though we walk in the flesh, we do not wage warfare according to what we are in the flesh. 4 For the weapons of our warfare are not fleshly, but powerful by God for overturning strongly entrenched things." (2 Corinthians 10:3-4)
"Return evil for evil to no one. Take into consideration what is fine from the viewpoint of all men. 18 If possible, as far as it depends on you, be peaceable with all men. 19 Do not avenge yourselves, beloved, but yield place to the wrath; for it is written: “‘Vengeance is mine; I will repay,’ says Jehovah.” 20 But “if your enemy is hungry, feed him; if he is thirsty, give him something to drink; for by doing this you will heap fiery coals on his head.” 21 Do not let yourself be conquered by the evil, but keep conquering the evil with the good." (Romans 12:17-21)
Howard Is
Lucky Mud
I have a simple definition. The intent to cause suffering, where it is not legitimate self defence, is evil.
I don’t give a **** about arguments that there is no objective morality.
If someone wants to cause pain and suffering, or simply doesn’t care if their intentions will cause pain and suffering, that is evil.
I don’t always use that word, because of all the baggage, so I may use words like “deliberately malignant sickf*** behaviour” or something like that.
I don’t give a **** about arguments that there is no objective morality.
If someone wants to cause pain and suffering, or simply doesn’t care if their intentions will cause pain and suffering, that is evil.
I don’t always use that word, because of all the baggage, so I may use words like “deliberately malignant sickf*** behaviour” or something like that.
Good means bringing benefit, gain, to you, you and your family, you and your group, region, nation &c. Bad means bringing detriment, loss, to those people (who will, of course, vary with context).
We (everyone, in all cultures) are born with certain moral instincts: as well as the general mammalian imperatives of child nurture and protection, we dislike the person who harms, we like fairness and reciprocity, we like group loyalty and respect for authority and we get a sense of self-worth/virtue from self-denial.
The rest of our morality is more variable. We get it from our upbringing, culture, education and experience. This covers manners (things people are judged on in society ─ dress, vocabulary, accent, table manners &c), weddings (is there a dowry, a brideprice, neither, who should get a gift &c?), funerals, the etiquette of competition (sportsmanship, are Americans by tendency braggarts or just honest?) and so on through a great number of social interactions.
ZenMonkey
St. James VII
ZenMonkey
St. James VII
ZenMonkey
St. James VII
ZenMonkey
St. James VII
I enjoy photography, writing, art, and beautiful things. I hate when I hit my thumb with a hammer, burn myself on a stove top, step on hot coals, etc.
ZenMonkey
St. James VII
I suppose you're right.
ZenMonkey
St. James VII
Cool ... here's the thing. I hate some things . That a truth I won't deny. I truly enjoy other things. That's another truth I won't deny. Have you ever hated something that happened to you? Anything really ... just something you hated that happened to you, or maybe your family?
ZenMonkey
St. James VII
I might lose if we're talking about a different movie, but footloose style is debatable .. I just think that unless and until we start thinking critically, logically, and intelligently ... on to or maybe coming from a more simple way of approaching things like this, we're never gonna get past to overly religious or superstitious side of it.