LightofTruth
Well-Known Member
The divine physical nature IS Jesus, after his resurrection. It is his new nature. It's not two natures but one nature.
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Can you answer my post?Confused
- Thread starter Frank Goad
- Start date
Revelation 14:1
"Then I saw, and look! the Lamb standing on Mount Zion, and with him 144,000..."
Then, after identifying the 144,000 it says in verse 4....
"These are the ones who keep following the Lamb no matter where he goes. These were bought from among mankind as firstfruits to God and to the Lamb".
The 144,000 are bought from the earth as "firstfruits".....the "first" to be resurrected. Revelation 20:6 says that they will rule with Christ for the 1,000 years.
They are not the only ones. All of Christ's disciples from the first century down to the time of the end have been "sleeping". Many of them, but not all were martyred. All of these will rise together in this one time period, as Paul said.
What??? The dragon is the original serpent, satan the devil who has been confined in an abyss with his hordes...locked away for the 1,000 years of Christ's rule. How does he come to life when he was never dead?
The general resurrection of the dead takes place once the earth is cleansed of all wickedness and those who practice it. At John 5:28-29, Jesus says...
"Do not be amazed at this, for the hour is coming in which all those in the memorial tombs will hear his voice 29 and come out, those who did good things to a resurrection of life, and those who practiced vile things to a resurrection of judgment."
Jesus calls the dead from their graves to life on earth...just as he did Lazarus. (John 11:11-14)
That is a bit muddled up.
Once satan has been released from his prison to test mankind one last time, there is no need for the ones misled by him to cause ruin again....it says in Revelation 20:7-9...
"Now as soon as the 1,000 years have ended, Satan will be released from his prison, 8 and he will go out to mislead those nations in the four corners of the earth, Gog and Maʹgog, to gather them together for the war. The number of these is as the sand of the sea. 9 And they advanced over the whole earth and encircled the camp of the holy ones and the beloved city. But fire came down out of heaven and consumed them."
This is a war where God's enemies are gathered, but it never gets fought. No righteous ones are harmed....fire from heaven consumes these enemies before they even fire a shot.
There is only one end prepared for the devil and his angels and that is "the lake of fire", which is "the second death".
This is a death from which no one returns...it is a symbol of everlasting destruction, like gehenna.
Matthew 25:31-34...
"When the Son of man comes in his glory, and all the angels with him, then he will sit down on his glorious throne. 32 All the nations will be gathered before him, and he will separate people one from another, just as a shepherd separates the sheep from the goats. 33 And he will put the sheep on his right hand, but the goats on his left.
34 “Then the King will say to those on his right: ‘Come, you who have been blessed by my Father, inherit the Kingdom prepared for you from the founding of the world."
But to the goats he says...V41, 46....
"Then he will say to those on his left: ‘Go away from me, you who have been cursed, into the everlasting fire prepared for the Devil and his angels....These will depart into everlasting cutting-off, but the righteous ones into everlasting life."
The devil has always known his fate...but he finds pleasure in taking as many down into oblivion with him as he can.
LightofTruth
Well-Known Member
There is no mention of any resurrection of the 144,000. They are said to be firstfruits to God AND to the Lamb. They are the beginning of the kingdom of God on earth. They are mortal men.Revelation 14:1
"Then I saw, and look! the Lamb standing on Mount Zion, and with him 144,000..."
Then, after identifying the 144,000 it says in verse 4....
"These are the ones who keep following the Lamb no matter where he goes. These were bought from among mankind as firstfruits to God and to the Lamb".
The 144,000 are bought from the earth as "firstfruits".....the "first" to be resurrected. Revelation 20:6 says that they will rule with Christ for the 1,000 years.
They are not the only ones. All of Christ's disciples from the first century down to the time of the end have been "sleeping". Many of them, but not all were martyred. All of these will rise together in this one time period, as Paul said.
What??? The dragon is the original serpent, satan the devil who has been confined in an abyss with his hordes...locked away for the 1,000 years of Christ's rule. How does he come to life when he was never dead?
The general resurrection of the dead takes place once the earth is cleansed of all wickedness and those who practice it. At John 5:28-29, Jesus says...
"Do not be amazed at this, for the hour is coming in which all those in the memorial tombs will hear his voice 29 and come out, those who did good things to a resurrection of life, and those who practiced vile things to a resurrection of judgment."
Jesus calls the dead from their graves to life on earth...just as he did Lazarus. (John 11:11-14)
That is a bit muddled up.
Once satan has been released from his prison to test mankind one last time, there is no need for the ones misled by him to cause ruin again....it says in Revelation 20:7-9...
"Now as soon as the 1,000 years have ended, Satan will be released from his prison, 8 and he will go out to mislead those nations in the four corners of the earth, Gog and Maʹgog, to gather them together for the war. The number of these is as the sand of the sea. 9 And they advanced over the whole earth and encircled the camp of the holy ones and the beloved city. But fire came down out of heaven and consumed them."
This is a war where God's enemies are gathered, but it never gets fought. No righteous ones are harmed....fire from heaven consumes these enemies before they even fire a shot.
There is only one end prepared for the devil and his angels and that is "the lake of fire", which is "the second death".
This is a death from which no one returns...it is a symbol of everlasting destruction, like gehenna.
Matthew 25:31-34...
"When the Son of man comes in his glory, and all the angels with him, then he will sit down on his glorious throne. 32 All the nations will be gathered before him, and he will separate people one from another, just as a shepherd separates the sheep from the goats. 33 And he will put the sheep on his right hand, but the goats on his left.
34 “Then the King will say to those on his right: ‘Come, you who have been blessed by my Father, inherit the Kingdom prepared for you from the founding of the world."
But to the goats he says...V41, 46....
"Then he will say to those on his left: ‘Go away from me, you who have been cursed, into the everlasting fire prepared for the Devil and his angels....These will depart into everlasting cutting-off, but the righteous ones into everlasting life."
The devil has always known his fate...but he finds pleasure in taking as many down into oblivion with him as he can.
It is the four beasts and the elders who were resurrected from the dead or translated from among the living and who are the immortal ones. Those are they whom John saw when a door was opened in heaven.
Mount Zion is on earth.
tгєรкเค
Member
Like I said both.
LightofTruth
Well-Known Member
You said there was an immaterial nature dwelling in Jesus' body. The Spirit of God is not another nature but something God gives of Himself.
For example, Adam was given the breath of the spirit of life which made him a living soul. But he did not have two natures. He had only one nature. And that nature is that of a living soul. When he died he became a dead soul and the breath of life that God gave to him returned to God.
tгєรкเค
Member
I thought the four beasts were an ever living creatures, they never rest day and night worshipping God in his throne, there's no mention of them being dead and was once being resurrected or translated in heaven. The four living beasts were all heavenly creatures, there's no scriptures that could support that they before were slain earthly creatures, none at all. Is there any?
The lamb was.
tгєรкเค
Member
True, but the soul stays in the grave along with its corpse, his spirit (the breath of life) returns to God. Dead soul knows nothing and were spiritually asleep until the second resurrection. The spirit lives on and may either ascends to God in heaven and those those unworthy may wander restlessly come judgment day. I believe, soul and spirit are two different thing.
74x12
Well-Known Member
In fact no one can be resurrected before Jesus Christ who is the "firstborn" from the dead. (Colossians 1:18)
Jesus is the first because He must be the head of the body.
LightofTruth
Well-Known Member
Moses died and was buried but was seen speaking with Jesus. He was raised from the dead.
Elijah was translated. That means that he didn't die but was changed in the twinkling of an eye to an immortal body. he also was seen speaking with Jesus.
Moses and Elijah are examples of what happens when Jesus returns. The dead will be raised as Moses was. And the living will be translated as Elijah was.
Those two examples do not negate the principle but establish it.
tгєรкเค
Member
Jesus was the firstborn from the dead for the fact that he resurrected on his own by His own will.
Lazarus was risen and some 10 other dead people before Jesus, were all either translated or resurrected and has been raised only from the dead but has NOT risen from the grave out on their own.
Jesus the Christ indeed was the firstborn because because He is the resurrection and the life himself.
Lazarus was risen and some 10 other dead people before Jesus, were all either translated or resurrected and has been raised only from the dead but has NOT risen from the grave out on their own.
Jesus the Christ indeed was the firstborn because because He is the resurrection and the life himself.
Muffled
Jesus in me
How I read it it says jesus's followers souls are coming back from heaven to earth In 1 Thessalonians 4:14.And in 2 Corinthians 5:6-8.I thought paul was just talking about how good it would be to be in heaven in general.But verse 9 to me sounds like some people who have died.Are already with God.I am so confused.
I believe if there is an explanation it will likely be in error.
I believe it says those who are asleep which usually means the grave. There is no need to sleep in Heaven. However since sleep often is used as a metaphor for having passed from life on earth that would include people from Heaven as well.
I believe there is no time frame in Daniel. I believe most people are on earth now through re-incarnation and a small minority are dead and the same will be true when the Rapture occurs.
Muffled
Jesus in me
I believe I must have missed the other two. Maybe an old post could be resurrected but is that really useful since the original posters may have completely forgotten about it.
Muffled
Jesus in me
I believe if Abraham, Isaac and Jacob are alive then they are not dead sleeping in their graves but have been re-incarnated.
Mount Zion in Revelation is not on earth, it is a heavenly Mount Zion, just like the kingdom is called "heavenly Jerusalem". (Revelation 21:2-4) This is bringing Christ's rulership to mankind on earth, but the kingdom is heavenly.
To the Samaritan woman Jesus declared that no mountain on earth would be the seat of God's worship. (John 4:21-24)
I'm sorry but your scenario does not fit with what the Bible teaches. Jesus went to heaven 40 days after his resurrection. He told his disciples that he was going to "prepare a place for them" so that where he was, they would also be. It was in heaven.
The kingdom of God is no mystery, so according to scripture, can you tell me what you believe it is and what it will accomplish?
tгєรкเค
Member
Matthew 22:29-30
Jesus answered them, “You are mistaken because you don't know the Scriptures or God's power.John 20:9 For in the resurrection, people neither marry nor are given in marriage but are like the angels in heaven.1John 3:2
I believe if most people are on earth now through re-incarnation then why do we still marry nor given in marriage?
I believe if there is other explanation to it will likely be in error.
LightofTruth
Well-Known Member
we have different views of revelation. I believe that none of it has been fulfilled yet. All of it is in the future.
Much of Revelation is still to take place.
Can you tell me what you believe the Kingdom is and what it will do in the future?
LightofTruth
Well-Known Member
Yes, I can. Jesus said that the reason he had come was to preach the kingdom of God, and so he has.
For example, he had told his disciples that some there would not taste death until they saw the kingdom of God come with power. After six days Jesus took Peter, James and John to a high mountain and was transfigured before them. His raiment became shining, exceedingly white as snow, and there appeared to them Elijah and Moses who spoke with Jesus of his decease he was to accomplish in Jerusalem.
What those three men were witness to was an exhibition of the kingdom of God when it comes in power.
Moses had died and was buried. He was therefore raised from the dead. Elijah was translated and made immortal in the twinkling of an eye when he was taken up to heaven. Jesus was transfigured to appear as he will when the kingdom of God comes in power.
Paul taught the same things as Jesus showed. Paul says that the faithful in Christ will be raised from the dead first, as Moses was. That includes ALL the faithful who have ever lived. And then the living faithful will be taken up and changed to be immortal in the twinkling of an eye, as Elijah was. They will all meet in the air.
That represents the immortal kingdom of God which will come down from heaven.
Sometime after all the faithful in Christ have been made immortal by being raised from the dead or translated from among the living, there will be a development of believers in Jerusalem who will suffer persecution under the red dragon king. They will suffer because they refuse to worship the beast and his image.
Those mortal men, the 144,000, will be the beginning of the kingdom of God to be established on earth after Jesus and his immortal saints have executed God's judgments upon His people and the nations.
The immortal saints will be as the angels of God who operate behind the scenes. The mortal men(Jews) will be the visible kingdom by whom the restitution of all things will occur.
I will address this tomorrow. It's late here and I need to sleep. Can you tell me if this is your own interpretation of these events?
LightofTruth
Well-Known Member
It's what I understand the Bible to teach.
We could also look at the parables of Jesus as they teach about the kingdom of God.