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'Jesus is God', Scripturally, [variable and non'variable verses(in meaning

MJFlores

Well-Known Member
All you have explained is your take on faith. If a god really existed surely it would make its presence clear to all in a way which couldn't be denied. The Bible is no sort of evidence at all.

What is this thread about?
'Jesus is God', Scripturally, [variable and non'variable verses
so your take is your doubts "if a god really existed..."

I think....
giphy.gif


We are not here to prove if your god or his god exists or if there are gods existing or what have you.
We are here to discuss if Jesus is God - you can affirm or you can oppose
But being irrelevant is just being OFF TOPIC
 

JJ50

Well-Known Member
What is this thread about?
'Jesus is God', Scripturally, [variable and non'variable verses
so your take is your doubts "if a god really existed..."

I think....
giphy.gif


We are not here to prove if your god or his god exists or if there are gods existing or what have you.
We are here to discuss if Jesus is God - you can affirm or you can oppose
But being irrelevant is just being OFF TOPIC

Of course Jesus wasn't any sort of god, just a human with failings like us all.
 

MJFlores

Well-Known Member
Of course Jesus wasn't any sort of god, just a human with failings like us all.

Now we are getting somewhere


giphy.gif


Jesus did not sin but he is capable of sinning but did not sin.
And this is what the Bible say about that:

Hebrews 4:14-15 New International Version (NIV)
Therefore, since we have a great high priest who has ascended into heaven, Jesus the Son of God, let us hold firmly to the faith we profess. For we do not have a high priest who is unable to empathize with our weaknesses, but we have one who has been tempted in every way, just as we are—yet he did not sin.

According to the Bible, Jesus has been tempted in every way
like we are tempted but the only difference is he did not give in to temptation therefore he did not sin

upload_2019-10-20_20-56-40.jpeg


If Jesus was God, the devil will not exert effort to tempt him. The devil will not even think of tempting Jesus if he was God because God is incapable of being tempted by the devil. But the devil knows that Jesus is the human and therefore tried his very best to tempt him but did not succeed.

This is what the Bible say about God being immune from all kinds of temptation.

James 1:13 Amplified Bible, Classic Edition (AMPC)

Let no one say when he is tempted, I am tempted from God; for God is incapable of being tempted by [what is] evil and He Himself tempts no one.
 

JJ50

Well-Known Member
If that evil Biblical god character exists and created everything it created Satan too. Satan cannot be any worse than god.
 

1213

Well-Known Member
Verses can't always be discerned as to a 'direct meaning', when read without other verses. Thusly, verse comparison is actually, necessary, to derive a meaning, that doesn't contradict something else noted in the Bible....

It is sad that many “Christians” ignore what Jesus teaches and don’t believe him, when he said:

This is eternal life, that they should know you, the only true God, and him whom you sent, Jesus Christ.
John 17:3

…the Father is greater than I.
John 14:28

When people make their own interpretations, I think those should be included.
 

whirlingmerc

Well-Known Member
Hand pick???
You ignored what Jesus said who is he and who is the true God is.

giphy.gif


Now hand pick yourself a verse that Jesus said he is God.
Go on....unless you can't.
Because there is none.

Now I pity you because the knowledge you possess will not bring you to eternal life.


It would be strange to have 'he who has seen me has seen the father' doesn't imply divine somehow

I might also notice God said his glory he will not give to another in Isaiah and yet the new testament gives Jesus glory and calls him 'the lord of glory' at times
 

MJFlores

Well-Known Member
If that evil Biblical god character exists and created everything it created Satan too. Satan cannot be any worse than god.

giphy.gif


Our topic is about Jesus if he is deity or human - cannot be both
I do not know why you keep on diverting the thoughts on this thread.
And may I correct you that when God created the cherub named Lucifer
He was perfect in every way until he committed sin and became Satan
Isaiah 14:12-15

What is the unchanging facts about the nature of God?
From the Bible, not from anyone's preference, wrong assumptions or opinions but from the Bible:

Numbers 23:19 New King James Version (NKJV)
God is not a man, that He should lie,
Nor a son of man, that He should repent.
Has He said, and will He not do?
Or has He spoken, and will He not make it good?

Are you a man?
If yes, then you are not God
Because God is not a man

Is Jesus a man?
From the Bible:

John 8:39-40 New King James Version (NKJV)
Jesus said to them, “If you were Abraham’s children, you would do the works of Abraham. But now you seek to kill Me, a Man who has told you the truth which I heard from God. Abraham did not do this.

Jesus introduced himself as a man - direct from the Lord Jesus mouth
Therefore since Jesus is a man and God is not a man
We can rightly conclude that Jesus is not God.
 

MJFlores

Well-Known Member
It would be strange to have 'he who has seen me has seen the father' doesn't imply divine somehow

I might also notice God said his glory he will not give to another in Isaiah and yet the new testament gives Jesus glory and calls him 'the lord of glory' at times

giphy.gif


It would be helpful if you could show the BIBLE REFERENCE of the BIBLE PASSAGE you are referring to
Than keeping a lot of people guessing WTF [wait that's funny] you are talking about
Thank you. Be clearer next time.
 

74x12

Well-Known Member
Hand pick???
You ignored what Jesus said who is he and who is the true God is.

giphy.gif


Now hand pick yourself a verse that Jesus said he is God.
Go on....unless you can't.
Because there is none.

Now I pity you because the knowledge you possess will not bring you to eternal life.
Knowledge doesn't bring eternal life. Jesus does. (John 14:6)

Matthew 11:27 Revised Standard Version (RSV)
27 All things have been delivered to me by my Father; and no one knows the Son except the Father, and no one knows the Father except the Son and any one to whom the Son chooses to reveal him.

John 14:8-9 Revised Standard Version (RSV)
8 Philip said to him, “Lord, show us the Father, and we shall be satisfied.” 9 Jesus said to him, “Have I been with you so long, and yet you do not know me, Philip? He who has seen me has seen the Father; how can you say, ‘Show us the Father’?
 

MJFlores

Well-Known Member
Knowledge doesn't bring eternal life. Jesus does. (John 14:6)

The verse you tried to present does not contain the thought you want to deliver.
But never the less, I can work this verse out.

John 14:6 New International Version (NIV)
Jesus answered, “I am the way and the truth and the life. No one comes to the Father except through me.

Jesus answered he is the way and the truth
Are you listening to the truth when he said which way leads to eternal life?

John 17:1-3 Living Bible (TLB)

When Jesus had finished saying all these things he looked up to heaven and said, “Father, the time has come. Reveal the glory of your Son so that he can give the glory back to you. For you have given him authority over every man and woman in all the earth. He gives eternal life to each one you have given him. And this is the way to have eternal lifeby knowing you, the only true God, and Jesus Christ, the one you sent to earth!

Who said these things??? Jesus did.
To whom was he speaking??? The Father.
Did Jesus showed the way??? Jesus did
Did Jesus revealed the way to eternal life??? Jesus did
And what was it???

To have the knowledge that the Father is the only true God
and to have that knowledge that Jesus Christ was sent by the Father who is the only true God


Matthew 11:27 Revised Standard Version (RSV)
27 All things have been delivered to me by my Father; and no one knows the Son except the Father, and no one knows the Father except the Son and any one to whom the Son chooses to reveal him.

The Son knows the Father
Now what do you want to imply?
The mere fact that the Son knows the Father
Makes the Son, God?
That is a wrong assumption.
The result will be 2 gods.
Oh by the way where is the Holy Spirit in this equation?
Strangely missing, huh?

The Son knows the Father
Therefore the Son is God also?
Therefore the Father is God and the Son is God, we have 2 Gods


source.gif


John 14:8-9 Revised Standard Version (RSV)
8 Philip said to him, “Lord, show us the Father, and we shall be satisfied.” 9 Jesus said to him, “Have I been with you so long, and yet you do not know me, Philip? He who has seen me has seen the Father; how can you say, ‘Show us the Father’?

On John 14:9


Question

Jesus said “He who has seen Me has seen the Father…” (John 14:9b, NASB). Thus, Jesus Christ is God.


ANSWER:


The verses followed John 14:9 explained why Jesus said “He who has seen Me has seen the Father.” Let us first quote verses 7-8 the we continue up to verse 11:

John 14:7-11 NIV
“If you really knew me, you would know my Father as well. From now on, you do know him and have seen him." Philip said, "Lord, show us the Father and that will be enough for us." Jesus answered: "Don't you know me, Philip, even after I have been among you such a long time? Anyone who has seen me has seen the Father. How can you say, 'Show us the Father'? Don't you believe that I am in the Father, and that the Father is in me? The words I say to you are not just my own. Rather, it is the Father, living in me, who is doing his work. Believe me when I say that I am in the Father and the Father is in me; or at least believe on the evidence of the miracles themselves.”

Philip the Apostle asked Jesus to show them the Father. He answered Philip, “Anyone who has seen me has seen the Father.” The verses that followed explained why Jesus said “He who has seen Me has seen the Father.” He said, “How can you say, 'Show us the Father'? Don't you believe that I am in the Father, and that the Father is in me?”

Jesus said that “He who has seen Me has seen the Father” not because Jesus is the Father, but because He is in the Father and the Father is in Him. Also, when Jesus said “It is the Father living in me, who is doing His work” also further explains why He said “he who has seen Me has seen the Father.”

upload_2019-10-21_9-20-44.jpeg


Who has seen Jesus has seen the Father, not because Jesus is the Father, that Jesus is God, but because the Father is in Him, the Father is living in Him, and the Father is doing His work in Him. Why did the Lord Jesus said that the Father is doing His work in Him? Apostle Peter explained this:

Acts 2:22 TEV
“Listen to these words, fellow Israelites! Jesus of Nazareth was a man whose divine authority was clearly proven to you by all the miracles and wonders which God performed through him. You yourselves know this, for it happened here among you.”

The Father is doing His work in Jesus because the Father (God) performed many miracles, wonders and signs THROUGH Jesus Christ. Thus, this is the reason why Jesus said that “He who has seen Me has seen the Father.” Because the miracles, wonders and signs seen in Christ, it is God who performed it through Him. Indeed, the Bible attests that the invisible God can be seen through the things He made:

Romans 1:20 TEV
“Ever since God created the world, his invisible qualities, both his eternal power and his divine nature, have been clearly seen; they are perceived in the things that God has made. So those people have no excuse at all!”

God did many miracles, signs and wonders THROUGH Jesus Christ. Thus, when Philip asked Jesus to show them the Father, He replied “Anyone who has seen me has seen the Father. How can you say, 'Show us the Father'? Don't you believe that I am in the Father, and that the Father is in me?…it is the Father, living in me, who is doing his work.”
 

Desert Snake

Veteran Member
It is sad that many “Christians” ignore what Jesus teaches and don’t believe him, when he said:

This is eternal life, that they should know you, the only true God, and him whom you sent, Jesus Christ.
John 17:3

…the Father is greater than I.
John 14:28

When people make their own interpretations, I think those should be included.
The premise doesn't use interpretation.

1 Corinthians 8:6[One Lord, Jesus Christ

2 Corinthians 6:18[Almighty Lord

Matthew 22:37[Lord your God.

If you consider that 'interpretation' there is something wrong.

There is only One Lord, Jesus Christ.[1 Corinthians 8:6

The
Lord is the Almighty Lord, and God.[2 Corinthians 6:16-18


Lord, your God [Matthew 22:37

What I am not doing, is to interpret something other, than the fact that the 'Lord', is God, and, there is only one Lord.




 
Last edited:

MJFlores

Well-Known Member
The premise doesn't use interpretion.

1 Corinthians 8:6[One Lord, Jesus Christ

2 Corinthians 6:18[Almighty Lord

Matthew 22:37[Lord your God.

If you consider that 'interpretation' there is something wrong.

There is only One Lord, Jesus Christ.

The
Lord is the Almighty Lord, and God.[2 Corinthians 6:16-18


Lord, your God [Matthew 22:37

What I am not doing, is to interpret something other, than the fact that the 'Lord', is God, and, there is only one Lord.


[2 Corinthians 6:16-18
There, Lord, and God, with no distinction.


I am 'interpreting', "one", to mean "one", and 'interpreting' "Lord your God" to mean "Lord your God", and 'interpreting', "Lord Almighty" to mean "Lord Almighty", who is God.

When a person has a weak set of cards
He won't show it and would make a bluff
So as to show he has a strong hand.

giphy.gif


That is why you could only show the BIBLE REFERENCES
But in fact your thoughts are not really in line with the BIBLE MESSAGE which you referred to

So I am going to prove your failed technique and show that my premises above are true.

You quoted: 1 Corinthians 8:6[One Lord, Jesus Christ

Do you have any reason why you do not want to show the whole message of 1 Corinthians 8:6?
It is like showing the bread crumbs than showing the whole loaf and concluding for yourself it is delicious.
I'm sorry but it fails anyone's satisfaction
And I am swayed that you are hiding something or just asserting a bluff or a dud

ASV
yet to us there is one God, the Father, of whom are all things, and we unto him; and one Lord, Jesus Christ, through whom are all things, and we through him.

AMP
yet for us there is but one God, the Father, who is the source of all things, and we exist for Him; and one Lord, Jesus Christ, by whom are all things [that have been created], and we [believers exist and have life and have been redeemed] through Him.

AMPC
Yet for us there is [only] one God, the Father, Who is the Source of all things and for Whom we [have life], and one Lord, Jesus Christ, through and by Whom are all things and through and by Whom we [ourselves exist].

BRG
But to us there is but one God, the Father, of whom are all things, and we in him; and one Lord Jesus Christ, by whom are all things, and we by him.

CSB
yet for us there is one God, the Father. All things are from him, and we exist for him. And there is one Lord, Jesus Christ. All things are through him, and we exist through him.

CEB
However, for us believers, There is one God the Father. All things come from him, and we belong to him. And there is one Lord Jesus Christ. All things exist through him, and we live through him.

Above are six [6] bible versions on 1 Cor 8:6
On all six it says There is one God the Father.
On all six it does not say the Lord Jesus is the one God
On all six it does not say we have two gods
On all bible versions, it does not conform with your beliefs
 

74x12

Well-Known Member
The verse you tried to present does not contain the thought you want to deliver.
But never the less, I can work this verse out.

John 14:6 New International Version (NIV)
Jesus answered, “I am the way and the truth and the life. No one comes to the Father except through me.

Jesus answered he is the way and the truth
Are you listening to the truth when he said which way leads to eternal life?

John 17:1-3 Living Bible (TLB)

When Jesus had finished saying all these things he looked up to heaven and said, “Father, the time has come. Reveal the glory of your Son so that he can give the glory back to you. For you have given him authority over every man and woman in all the earth. He gives eternal life to each one you have given him. And this is the way to have eternal lifeby knowing you, the only true God, and Jesus Christ, the one you sent to earth!

Who said these things??? Jesus did.
To whom was he speaking??? The Father.
Did Jesus showed the way??? Jesus did
Did Jesus revealed the way to eternal life??? Jesus did
And what was it???

To have the knowledge that the Father is the only true God
and to have that knowledge that Jesus Christ was sent by the Father who is the only true God




The Son knows the Father
Now what do you want to imply?
The mere fact that the Son knows the Father
Makes the Son, God?
That is a wrong assumption.
The result will be 2 gods.
Oh by the way where is the Holy Spirit in this equation?
Strangely missing, huh?

The Son knows the Father
Therefore the Son is God also?
Therefore the Father is God and the Son is God, we have 2 Gods


source.gif




On John 14:9


Question

Jesus said “He who has seen Me has seen the Father…” (John 14:9b, NASB). Thus, Jesus Christ is God.


ANSWER:


The verses followed John 14:9 explained why Jesus said “He who has seen Me has seen the Father.” Let us first quote verses 7-8 the we continue up to verse 11:

John 14:7-11 NIV
“If you really knew me, you would know my Father as well. From now on, you do know him and have seen him." Philip said, "Lord, show us the Father and that will be enough for us." Jesus answered: "Don't you know me, Philip, even after I have been among you such a long time? Anyone who has seen me has seen the Father. How can you say, 'Show us the Father'? Don't you believe that I am in the Father, and that the Father is in me? The words I say to you are not just my own. Rather, it is the Father, living in me, who is doing his work. Believe me when I say that I am in the Father and the Father is in me; or at least believe on the evidence of the miracles themselves.”

Philip the Apostle asked Jesus to show them the Father. He answered Philip, “Anyone who has seen me has seen the Father.” The verses that followed explained why Jesus said “He who has seen Me has seen the Father.” He said, “How can you say, 'Show us the Father'? Don't you believe that I am in the Father, and that the Father is in me?”

Jesus said that “He who has seen Me has seen the Father” not because Jesus is the Father, but because He is in the Father and the Father is in Him. Also, when Jesus said “It is the Father living in me, who is doing His work” also further explains why He said “he who has seen Me has seen the Father.”

View attachment 33700

Who has seen Jesus has seen the Father, not because Jesus is the Father, that Jesus is God, but because the Father is in Him, the Father is living in Him, and the Father is doing His work in Him. Why did the Lord Jesus said that the Father is doing His work in Him? Apostle Peter explained this:

Acts 2:22 TEV
“Listen to these words, fellow Israelites! Jesus of Nazareth was a man whose divine authority was clearly proven to you by all the miracles and wonders which God performed through him. You yourselves know this, for it happened here among you.”

The Father is doing His work in Jesus because the Father (God) performed many miracles, wonders and signs THROUGH Jesus Christ. Thus, this is the reason why Jesus said that “He who has seen Me has seen the Father.” Because the miracles, wonders and signs seen in Christ, it is God who performed it through Him. Indeed, the Bible attests that the invisible God can be seen through the things He made:

Romans 1:20 TEV
“Ever since God created the world, his invisible qualities, both his eternal power and his divine nature, have been clearly seen; they are perceived in the things that God has made. So those people have no excuse at all!”

God did many miracles, signs and wonders THROUGH Jesus Christ. Thus, when Philip asked Jesus to show them the Father, He replied “Anyone who has seen me has seen the Father. How can you say, 'Show us the Father'? Don't you believe that I am in the Father, and that the Father is in me?…it is the Father, living in me, who is doing his work.”
My point was that only Jesus can reveal the Father to anyone as He said. Yet, you seem to think it's easy to see the Father.

He did show Philip and those that were there and you don't yet see it. I pray you will see it. I pray He will show you the Father.

No wonder John makes no distinction between the Father and the Son in 1st John 3:1-6. John knew who the Father was. Here we see the Father was in the world and the world knew Him not ... Now we can and will know the Father; if Jesus gives us understanding. Because the Light of the knowledge of the glory of God is shining in the face of Jesus Christ.

As for knowledge if it saved us then it wouldn't be salvation by grace. It would be Gnosticism. Salvation through knowledge. But, God saves us. If we have knowledge; then God gave it to us. If we have faith God gave it. Whatever we have is a gift from God. This is so that no one can boast in themselves. So knowledge of the gospel comes through grace and it is the mercy of God that saves us. Because no one can receive anything (that is true and spiritual) unless it is given to them from heaven. And if God doesn't give us understanding then knowledge is vain anyway. As Jesus indicated when He said the wicked one would steal the seed of truth out of people's heart for lack of understanding it.

Because God has placed a curse on the proud of this world and said hear indeed but understand not! Because they are wise in their own eyes and prudent in their own sight. But who will receive the truth? They who are weaned from the milk and those drawn from the breast!

At that time Jesus answered and said, I thank thee, O Father, Lord of heaven and earth, because thou hast hid these things from the wise and prudent, and hast revealed them unto babes. (Matthew 11:25)
 

MJFlores

Well-Known Member
My point was that only Jesus can reveal the Father to anyone as He said. Yet, you seem to think it's easy to see the Father.

He did show Philip and those that were there and you don't yet see it. I pray you will see it. I pray He will show you the Father.

No wonder John makes no distinction between the Father and the Son in 1st John 3:1-6. John knew who the Father was. Here we see the Father was in the world and the world knew Him not ... Now we can and will know the Father; if Jesus gives us understanding. Because the Light of the knowledge of the glory of God is shining in the face of Jesus Christ.

Who is God to you?
The Father and the Son?
Two???
Three???
giphy.gif


Then you have more than one God, that makes your faith unscriptural.
And when your faith is unscriptural - it is false
And if it is false - that knowledge was taught by false teachers
And if that was taught by false teachers - it is of the devil
You will not be saved with that kind of knowledge

Mark 12:28-29 New International Version (NIV)

One of the teachers of the law came and heard them debating. Noticing that Jesus had given them a good answer, he asked him, “Of all the commandments, which is the most important?”

“The most important one,” answered Jesus, “is this: ‘Hear, O Israel: The Lord our God, the Lord is one.

As for knowledge if it saved us then it wouldn't be salvation by grace. It would be Gnosticism. Salvation through knowledge. But, God saves us. If we have knowledge; then God gave it to us. If we have faith God gave it. Whatever we have is a gift from God. This is so that no one can boast in themselves. So knowledge of the gospel comes through grace and it is the mercy of God that saves us. Because no one can receive anything (that is true and spiritual) unless it is given to them from heaven. And if God doesn't give us understanding then knowledge is vain anyway. As Jesus indicated when He said the wicked one would steal the seed of truth out of people's heart for lack of understanding it.

Who is your God?
The Father and Son?
Then that is not God but gods.

giphy.gif


Acts 17:30-31 New International Version (NIV)

In the past God overlooked such ignorance, but now he commands all people everywhere to repent. For he has set a day when he will judge the world with justice by the man he has appointed. He has given proof of this to everyone by raising him from the dead.”

Who is the man God has appointed to judge the world???
That man is the Lord Jesus Christ.

This is ACTS, Jesus was taken up to heaven and
Jesus' apostles preached Jesus as the man
NOT Jesus as the God

Because the truth is JESUS is the man God has appointed to judge the world with justice.
And to deny this fact is IGNORANCE

Because God has placed a curse on the proud of this world and said hear indeed but understand not! Because they are wise in their own eyes and prudent in their own sight. But who will receive the truth? They who are weaned from the milk and those drawn from the breast!

At that time Jesus answered and said, I thank thee, O Father, Lord of heaven and earth, because thou hast hid these things from the wise and prudent, and hast revealed them unto babes. (Matthew 11:25)

Jesus is not God and that is the plain truth.
Believing Jesus is God out of your personal preference that what the bible says is not based on knowledge
It is not based on truth
It is devilish

Romans 10:2-3 New International Version (NIV)

For I can testify about them that they are zealous for God, but their zeal is not based on knowledge. Since they did not know the righteousness of God and sought to establish their own, they did not submit to God’s righteousness.

tenor.gif
 

74x12

Well-Known Member
When a person has a weak set of cards
He won't show it and would make a bluff
So as to show he has a strong hand.

giphy.gif


That is why you could only show the BIBLE REFERENCES
But in fact your thoughts are not really in line with the BIBLE MESSAGE which you referred to

So I am going to prove your failed technique and show that my premises above are true.

You quoted: 1 Corinthians 8:6[One Lord, Jesus Christ

Do you have any reason why you do not want to show the whole message of 1 Corinthians 8:6?
It is like showing the bread crumbs than showing the whole loaf and concluding for yourself it is delicious.
I'm sorry but it fails anyone's satisfaction
And I am swayed that you are hiding something or just asserting a bluff or a dud

ASV
yet to us there is one God, the Father, of whom are all things, and we unto him; and one Lord, Jesus Christ, through whom are all things, and we through him.

AMP
yet for us there is but one God, the Father, who is the source of all things, and we exist for Him; and one Lord, Jesus Christ, by whom are all things [that have been created], and we [believers exist and have life and have been redeemed] through Him.

AMPC
Yet for us there is [only] one God, the Father, Who is the Source of all things and for Whom we [have life], and one Lord, Jesus Christ, through and by Whom are all things and through and by Whom we [ourselves exist].

BRG
But to us there is but one God, the Father, of whom are all things, and we in him; and one Lord Jesus Christ, by whom are all things, and we by him.

CSB
yet for us there is one God, the Father. All things are from him, and we exist for him. And there is one Lord, Jesus Christ. All things are through him, and we exist through him.

CEB
However, for us believers, There is one God the Father. All things come from him, and we belong to him. And there is one Lord Jesus Christ. All things exist through him, and we live through him.

Above are six [6] bible versions on 1 Cor 8:6
On all six it says There is one God the Father.
On all six it does not say the Lord Jesus is the one God
On all six it does not say we have two gods
On all bible versions, it does not conform with your beliefs
When people say the Father is the only God then I only say Amen to that! That's because I only believe in the Father. There is no other God. But the Son is the Father manifest.
Who is God to you?
The Father and the Son?
Two???
Three???
giphy.gif


Then you have more than one God, that makes your faith unscriptural.
And when your faith is unscriptural - it is false
And if it is false - that knowledge was taught by false teachers
And if that was taught by false teachers - it is of the devil
You will not be saved with that kind of knowledge

Mark 12:28-29 New International Version (NIV)

One of the teachers of the law came and heard them debating. Noticing that Jesus had given them a good answer, he asked him, “Of all the commandments, which is the most important?”

“The most important one,” answered Jesus, “is this: ‘Hear, O Israel: The Lord our God, the Lord is one.



Who is your God?
The Father and Son?
Then that is not God but gods.

giphy.gif


Acts 17:30-31 New International Version (NIV)

In the past God overlooked such ignorance, but now he commands all people everywhere to repent. For he has set a day when he will judge the world with justice by the man he has appointed. He has given proof of this to everyone by raising him from the dead.”

Who is the man God has appointed to judge the world???
That man is the Lord Jesus Christ.

This is ACTS, Jesus was taken up to heaven and
Jesus' apostles preached Jesus as the man
NOT Jesus as the God

Because the truth is JESUS is the man God has appointed to judge the world with justice.
And to deny this fact is IGNORANCE



Jesus is not God and that is the plain truth.
Believing Jesus is God out of your personal preference that what the bible says is not based on knowledge
It is not based on truth
It is devilish

Romans 10:2-3 New International Version (NIV)

For I can testify about them that they are zealous for God, but their zeal is not based on knowledge. Since they did not know the righteousness of God and sought to establish their own, they did not submit to God’s righteousness.

tenor.gif
Now let's go ahead and see who really has two Gods in their doctrine.

You know Jesus is called god in John 1:1 and in other scriptures also. But you don't say He is "God". Instead you say He is "a god". So you have God the Father and a lesser "god" Jesus.

"Thou shalt have no other gods before me." (Exodus 20:3)

And Paul says but to us(That is the true church) there is but one God the Father. So you claim the true church has two gods? I say ONE God the Father like Paul said.

It's just too obvious. 1+1=2 and you have a greater God and a lesser god. So you have 2 Gods. Remember that the true church only has one God the Father.

I have only One God the Father who was manifest in the Son. The Son is not separate from the Father in person. He is called the Son because He was literally fathered by the holy Spirit. (Luke 1:35) But, His Spirit (that is the Spirit and soul that dwelt in the physical body) was God. Not a separate person. Just the Father living in the fleshly tabernacle of Jesus Christ.

Colossians 1:19 Young's Literal Translation (YLT)
19 because in him it did please all the fulness to tabernacle,

Colossians 2:8-9 Young's Literal Translation (YLT)
8 See that no one shall be carrying you away as spoil through the philosophy and vain deceit, according to the deliverance of men, according to the rudiments of the world, and not according to Christ, 9 because in him doth tabernacle all the fulness of the Godhead bodily,



So in conclusion; Jesus is bodily the beginning of the temple of God(The chief Cornerstone) and spiritually He is the God living in the temple. That means Jesus is the Father. The very person of the Father living in a fleshly tabernacle.

Isaiah 9:6 King James Version (KJV)
6 For unto us a child is born, unto us a son is given: and the government shall be upon his shoulder: and his name shall be called Wonderful, Counsellor, The mighty God, The everlasting Father, The Prince of Peace.
 

74x12

Well-Known Member
Who is God to you?
The Father and the Son?
Two???
Three???
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Then you have more than one God, that makes your faith unscriptural.
And when your faith is unscriptural - it is false
And if it is false - that knowledge was taught by false teachers
And if that was taught by false teachers - it is of the devil
You will not be saved with that kind of knowledge

Mark 12:28-29 New International Version (NIV)

One of the teachers of the law came and heard them debating. Noticing that Jesus had given them a good answer, he asked him, “Of all the commandments, which is the most important?”

“The most important one,” answered Jesus, “is this: ‘Hear, O Israel: The Lord our God, the Lord is one.



Who is your God?
The Father and Son?
Then that is not God but gods.

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Acts 17:30-31 New International Version (NIV)

In the past God overlooked such ignorance, but now he commands all people everywhere to repent. For he has set a day when he will judge the world with justice by the man he has appointed. He has given proof of this to everyone by raising him from the dead.”

Who is the man God has appointed to judge the world???
That man is the Lord Jesus Christ.

This is ACTS, Jesus was taken up to heaven and
Jesus' apostles preached Jesus as the man
NOT Jesus as the God

Because the truth is JESUS is the man God has appointed to judge the world with justice.
And to deny this fact is IGNORANCE



Jesus is not God and that is the plain truth.
Believing Jesus is God out of your personal preference that what the bible says is not based on knowledge
It is not based on truth
It is devilish

Romans 10:2-3 New International Version (NIV)

For I can testify about them that they are zealous for God, but their zeal is not based on knowledge. Since they did not know the righteousness of God and sought to establish their own, they did not submit to God’s righteousness.

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For the truth I should be desperate. Now let's see what Jesus is.

He is the love of God reaching down into a lost and dying world. Because Jesus said no one has greater love than the one who lays down His life for His friends. Yet we know for sure that no one has greater love than God. So this means God had to die for us. Because He is greatest in love. And Jesus said the (truly) good shepherd gives His life for the sheep! So we know that since God calls Himself our Shepherd then He would die for us.

John 15:13 World English Bible (WEB)
13 Greater love has no one than this, that someone lay down his life for his friends.

John 10:11 World English Bible (WEB)
11 I am the good shepherd. The good shepherd lays down his life for the sheep.


Since God cannot die then He needed a physical body that could die. (Hebrews 10:5) Jesus can be no other than the most High God. The true Shepherd of the flock and love personified.
 

JJ50

Well-Known Member
For the truth I should be desperate. Now let's see what Jesus is.

He is the love of God reaching down into a lost and dying world. Because Jesus said no one has greater love than the one who lays down His life for His friends. Yet we know for sure that no one has greater love than God. So this means God had to die for us. Because He is greatest in love. And Jesus said the (truly) good shepherd gives His life for the sheep! So we know that since God calls Himself our Shepherd then He would die for us.

John 15:13 World English Bible (WEB)
13 Greater love has no one than this, that someone lay down his life for his friends.

John 10:11 World English Bible (WEB)
11 I am the good shepherd. The good shepherd lays down his life for the sheep.


Since God cannot die then He needed a physical body that could die. (Hebrews 10:5) Jesus can be no other than the most High God. The true Shepherd of the flock and love personified.

In your opinion without any evidence to support that statement.
 

Hockeycowboy

Witness for Jehovah
Premium Member
For the truth I should be desperate. Now let's see what Jesus is.

He is the love of God reaching down into a lost and dying world. Because Jesus said no one has greater love than the one who lays down His life for His friends. Yet we know for sure that no one has greater love than God. So this means God had to die for us. Because He is greatest in love. And Jesus said the (truly) good shepherd gives His life for the sheep! So we know that since God calls Himself our Shepherd then He would die for us.

John 15:13 World English Bible (WEB)
13 Greater love has no one than this, that someone lay down his life for his friends.

John 10:11 World English Bible (WEB)
11 I am the good shepherd. The good shepherd lays down his life for the sheep.


Since God cannot die then He needed a physical body that could die. (Hebrews 10:5) Jesus can be no other than the most High God. The true Shepherd of the flock and love personified.
Yes, Jesus was willing....but ‘God sent him’. John 3:16; John 17:3.

It can’t be much plainer.
 

MJFlores

Well-Known Member
When people say the Father is the only God then I only say Amen to that! That's because I only believe in the Father. There is no other God. But the Son is the Father manifest.

manifestation.jpg


You know Jesus is called god in John 1:1 and in other scriptures also. But you don't say He is "God". Instead you say He is "a god". So you have God the Father and a lesser "god" Jesus.

You call Jesus god
But I used to know Jesus god - but not anymore
Jesus was not called god in John 1:1
There is only one God
But if you like to have 2 gods

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1 Corinthians 8:5-7 Common English Bible (CEB)
Granted, there are so-called “gods,” in heaven and on the earth, as there are many gods and many lords. However, for us believers,

There is one God the Father.
All things come from him, and we belong to him.
And there is one Lord Jesus Christ.
All things exist through him, and we live through him.


But not everybody knows this.
Some are eating this food as though it really is food sacrificed to a real idol, because they were used to idol worship until now. Their conscience is weak because it has been damaged.

I have only One God the Father who was manifest in the Son. The Son is not separate from the Father in person. He is called the Son because He was literally fathered by the holy Spirit. (Luke 1:35) But, His Spirit (that is the Spirit and soul that dwelt in the physical body) was God. Not a separate person. Just the Father living in the fleshly tabernacle of Jesus Christ.

You are saying that Jesus is a liar?

John 8:42 New International Version (NIV)
Jesus said to them, “If God were your Father, you would love me, for I have come here from God. I have not come on my own; God sent me.

But, His Spirit (that is the Spirit and soul that dwelt in the physical body) was God. Not a separate person. Just the Father living in the fleshly tabernacle of Jesus Christ.???

John 20:17 New International Version (NIV)
Jesus said, “Do not hold on to me, for I have not yet ascended to the Father. Go instead to my brothers and tell them, ‘I am ascending to my Father and your Father, to my God and your God.’”

But, His Spirit (that is the Spirit and soul that dwelt in the physical body) was God. Not a separate person. Just the Father living in the fleshly tabernacle of Jesus Christ.???

John 14:28 New International Version (NIV)
“You heard me say, ‘I am going away and I am coming back to you.’ If you loved me, you would be glad that I am going to the Father, for the Father is greater than I.

But, His Spirit (that is the Spirit and soul that dwelt in the physical body) was God. Not a separate person. Just the Father living in the fleshly tabernacle of Jesus Christ.???

giphy.gif


So in conclusion; Jesus is bodily the beginning of the temple of God(The chief Cornerstone) and spiritually He is the God living in the temple. That means Jesus is the Father. The very person of the Father living in a fleshly tabernacle.

Isaiah 9:6 King James Version (KJV)
6 For unto us a child is born, unto us a son is given: and the government shall be upon his shoulder: and his name shall be called Wonderful, Counsellor, The mighty God, The everlasting Father, The Prince of Peace.

What was given to us?
For unto us a child is born, unto us a son is given:
what is the meaning of a child???
a young person especially between infancy and puberty
Definition of CHILD

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Isaiah never wrote that For unto us a god is born....it was a young human being.

and his name shall be called Wonderful, Counsellor, The mighty God, The everlasting Father, The Prince of Peace.

Was he the Wonderful Counsellor?
Was he the mighty God?
Was he the everlasting Father?
Was he the Prince of Peace?
Maybe you should read again
and his name shall be called
It was his name, not him actually

So this means God had to die for us. Because He is greatest in love. And Jesus said the (truly) good shepherd gives His life for the sheep! So we know that since God calls Himself our Shepherd then He would die for us.

John 15:13 World English Bible (WEB)
13 Greater love has no one than this, that someone lay down his life for his friends.

John 10:11 World English Bible (WEB)
11 I am the good shepherd. The good shepherd lays down his life for the sheep.


Since God cannot die then He needed a physical body that could die. (Hebrews 10:5) Jesus can be no other than the most High God. The true Shepherd of the flock and love personified.

So this means God had to die for us???

giphy.gif


The only true God's characteristics are listed in the Bible and a few were mentioned by Paul in:

1 Timothy 1:17 New International Version (NIV)
Now to the King eternal, immortal, invisible, the only God, be honor and glory for ever and ever. Amen.

Let us use another translation of the Bible to define the red colored words

1 Timothy 1:17 Expanded Bible (EXB)
To the ·King who rules forever [eternal King; L King of the ages], ·who will never die [immortal; incorruptible], ·who cannot be seen [invisible], the only God, be honor and glory forever and ever. Amen.

If Jesus Christ fits in the characteristics of the only God mentioned in 1 Tim 1:17
then by all means, Jesus is the only God but if not, then we should face the reality that Jesus is not God at all

Is Jesus, the King eternal?
Remember the verse you quoted and I believe you still believe that Jesus is "the Prince of Peace" instead of his name which is Christ. According to you he is the Prince of Peace, but the only God is the King eternal - no beginning and no end - from all ages. Jesus had a beginning as a child is born, unto us a son is given [remember that?] So Jesus does not fit as the King eternal but it fits the only God.

When we say the ONLY - it means exclusivity. How come you have 2 gods? See how false your religion is?

Is Jesus immortal - will never die?
We all know Jesus died and you said it yourself "So this means God had to die for us"
As in the Romans with their crude weapons managed to kill God, how much more with the weapons today?
It is your apostatized belief that God can be killed and die. But the only God is immortal, unkillable and does not bleed. So Jesus died hence disqualified as the only God by apostle Paul.

Is Jesus invisible - cannot be seen?
The apostles of Christ saw Jesus even when he was raised from the dead and taken up to heaven. The people of his time saw Jesus preached and performed miracles. The Roman soldiers performed their brutal punishments and torture on Jesus. Hence Jesus was seen hence not invisible. The mere fact that Jesus was seen disqualifies him as the only God as mentioned in the Bible.
 
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