Idolizing Jesus and the idolizing the verses of the Bible

dfnj · Oct 20, 2019

Be warned! Some Christians might find the following post offensive. Please forgive me at the outset if you find the following material to be insulting. It is very much NOT my intention to insult any Christians or their beliefs.

I think people blindly idolize Jesus and idolize the verses of the Bible. But if you have the tiniest peep-hole of an open mind you might find the research discussed in this post as fascinating as I do.

Consider the following verses from the Bible:

"Ye have heard that it hath been said, An eye for an eye, and a tooth for a tooth: But I say unto you, That ye resist not evil: but whosoever shall smite thee on thy right cheek, turn to him the other also." Matt.5 Verses 38 to 48

“Slaves, submit yourselves to your masters with all respect, not only to the good and gentle but also to the cruel.” (1 Peter 2:18)

Jesus said "Render to Caesar the things that are Caesar's; and to God the things that are God's." Romans 13:1 "Let every person be in subjection to the governing authorities. For there is no authority except from God and those which exist are established by God." Matthew 22:21

*Edit

There's a theory the Gospel was war-time occupational propaganda fabricated by the Romans to pacify the Jewish people. And also to give legitimacy to the Roman occupation by implying a particular Roman military leader was the son of God fulfilling Jewish prophecy.

Here is a link to a video discussing the theory in great detail:

CAESAR'S MESSIAH: The Roman Conspiracy to Invent Jesus - OFFICIAL VERSION

"With the analysis done by Joseph Atwill, the key lies in the Dead Sea Scrolls which are the only Jewish literature ever discovered from the first century AD or CE... the time Jesus would have been preaching among the Jews. The characters in the Dead Sea Scrolls were militaristic and you can see that this movement wanted to push the foreigners out of Israel; they were fundamentalists, whereas the characters of the Gospels are not.

Joseph began studying the other two major works of that era, The 'New testament' and the 'Wars of the Jews' by Josephus, a Roman court historian who described the war between the Romans and the Jews in the first century. While reading these works side by side he noticed an amazing connection between them.

Certain events from the ministry of Jesus seem to closely parallel episodes from the military campaign of Titus Flavius. A campaign which took place forty years after Jesus supposedly lived. Joseph's efforts to understand these connections led him to an incredible discovery. Christianity had been invented by a little known family of Roman Caesars, the Flavians, and they left us documents to prove it."

It's very hard to argue with Atwill's argument with regards to the over 40 topological associations all in the SAME sequence and in the same locations between the two literally works compared in his study. The parallels are ASTOUNDING!

The locations and sequence of Jesus travels through the Gospel line up with the military campaign of Titus Flavius as if Titus Flavius is implied to be the Jewish savior! The propaganda was designed to imply Titus Flavius was the son of God! The Romans were using religion to govern the people in an occupied land.

Terry Sampson · Oct 20, 2019

dfnj said:
consider the Jewish people

Oh, ... this is gonna be fun.

Terry Sampson · Oct 20, 2019

dfnj said:
There's a theory the Gospel was war-time occupational propaganda fabricated by the Romans to pacify the Jewish people. And also to give legitimacy to the Roman occupation by implying a particular Roman military leader was the son of God fulfilling Jewish prophecy.

Great! Run that zonker's theory that Joseph Atwill came up with by us again, ... for the benefit of those who missed it the first time or are still scratching their heads.

leov · Oct 20, 2019

dfnj said:
Be warned! Some Christians might find the following post offensive. Please forgive me at the outset if you find the following material to be insulting. It is very much NOT my intention to insult any Christians or their beliefs.

I think people blindly idolize Jesus and idolize the verses of the Bible. But if you have the tiniest peep-hole of an open mind you might find the research discussed in this post as fascinating like I do.

Consider the following verses from the Bible:

"Ye have heard that it hath been said, An eye for an eye, and a tooth for a tooth: But I say unto you, That ye resist not evil: but whosoever shall smite thee on thy right cheek, turn to him the other also." Matt.5 Verses 38 to 48

“Slaves, submit yourselves to your masters with all respect, not only to the good and gentle but also to the cruel.” (1 Peter 2:18)

Jesus said "Render to Caesar the things that are Caesar's; and to God the things that are God's." Romans 13:1 "Let every person be in subjection to the governing authorities. For there is no authority except from God and those which exist are established by God." Matthew 22:21

Now before you dismiss the following theory out of hand consider the Jewish people. The Jewish people are the most ruthless and belligerent people on the planet. What are the chances the most ruthless and belligerent people on the planet are suddenly going to turn the other cheek, submit to their masters, and give to Caesar what is Caesar's. This is just too impossible to believe!

There's a theory the Gospel was war-time occupational propaganda fabricated by the Romans to pacify the Jewish people. And also to give legitimacy to the Roman occupation by implying a particular Roman military leader was the son of God fulfilling Jewish prophecy.

Here is a link to a video discussing the theory in great detail:

CAESAR'S MESSIAH: The Roman Conspiracy to Invent Jesus - OFFICIAL VERSION

"With the analysis done by Joseph Atwill, the key lies in the Dead Sea Scrolls which are the only Jewish literature ever discovered from the first century AD or CE... the time Jesus would have been preaching among the Jews. The characters in the Dead Sea Scrolls were militaristic and you can see that this movement wanted to push the foreigners out of Israel; they were fundamentalists, whereas the characters of the Gospels are not.

Joseph began studying the other two major works of that era, The 'New testament' and the 'Wars of the Jews' by Josephus, a Roman court historian who described the war between the Romans and the Jews in the first century. While reading these works side by side he noticed an amazing connection between them.

Certain events from the ministry of Jesus seem to closely parallel episodes from the military campaign of Titus Flavius. A campaign which took place forty years after Jesus supposedly lived. Joseph's efforts to understand these connections led him to an incredible discovery. Christianity had been invented by a little known family of Roman Caesars, the Flavians, and they left us documents to prove it."

It's very hard to argue with Atwill's argument with regards to the over 40 topological associations all in the SAME sequence and in the same locations between the two literally works compared in his study. The parallels are ASTOUNDING!

The locations and sequence of Jesus travels through the Gospel line up with the military campaign of Titus Flavius as if Titus Flavius is implied to be the Jewish savior! The propaganda was designed to imply Titus Flavius was the son of God! The Romans were using religion to govern the people in an occupied land.

I Cor 2:
14"But a natural man does not accept the things of the Spirit of God, for they are foolishness to him; and he cannot understand them, because they are spiritually appraised. 15But he who is spiritual appraises all things, yet he himself is appraised by no one. 16For WHO HAS KNOWN THE MIND OF THE LORD, THAT HE WILL INSTRUCT HIM? But we have the mind of Christ."

Two natures of human soul, one worships physical Jesus because they do not understand spiritual nature of Christ Jesus and Christ Spirit.

shmogie · Oct 20, 2019

dfnj said:
Be warned! Some Christians might find the following post offensive. Please forgive me at the outset if you find the following material to be insulting. It is very much NOT my intention to insult any Christians or their beliefs.

I think people blindly idolize Jesus and idolize the verses of the Bible. But if you have the tiniest peep-hole of an open mind you might find the research discussed in this post as fascinating as I do.

Consider the following verses from the Bible:

"Ye have heard that it hath been said, An eye for an eye, and a tooth for a tooth: But I say unto you, That ye resist not evil: but whosoever shall smite thee on thy right cheek, turn to him the other also." Matt.5 Verses 38 to 48

“Slaves, submit yourselves to your masters with all respect, not only to the good and gentle but also to the cruel.” (1 Peter 2:18)

Jesus said "Render to Caesar the things that are Caesar's; and to God the things that are God's." Romans 13:1 "Let every person be in subjection to the governing authorities. For there is no authority except from God and those which exist are established by God." Matthew 22:21

Now before you dismiss the following theory out of hand consider the Jewish people. The Jewish people are the most ruthless and belligerent people on the planet. What are the chances the most ruthless and belligerent people on the planet are suddenly going to turn the other cheek, submit to their masters, and give to Caesar what is Caesar's. This is just too impossible to believe!

There's a theory the Gospel was war-time occupational propaganda fabricated by the Romans to pacify the Jewish people. And also to give legitimacy to the Roman occupation by implying a particular Roman military leader was the son of God fulfilling Jewish prophecy.

Here is a link to a video discussing the theory in great detail:

CAESAR'S MESSIAH: The Roman Conspiracy to Invent Jesus - OFFICIAL VERSION

"With the analysis done by Joseph Atwill, the key lies in the Dead Sea Scrolls which are the only Jewish literature ever discovered from the first century AD or CE... the time Jesus would have been preaching among the Jews. The characters in the Dead Sea Scrolls were militaristic and you can see that this movement wanted to push the foreigners out of Israel; they were fundamentalists, whereas the characters of the Gospels are not.

Joseph began studying the other two major works of that era, The 'New testament' and the 'Wars of the Jews' by Josephus, a Roman court historian who described the war between the Romans and the Jews in the first century. While reading these works side by side he noticed an amazing connection between them.

Certain events from the ministry of Jesus seem to closely parallel episodes from the military campaign of Titus Flavius. A campaign which took place forty years after Jesus supposedly lived. Joseph's efforts to understand these connections led him to an incredible discovery. Christianity had been invented by a little known family of Roman Caesars, the Flavians, and they left us documents to prove it."

It's very hard to argue with Atwill's argument with regards to the over 40 topological associations all in the SAME sequence and in the same locations between the two literally works compared in his study. The parallels are ASTOUNDING!

The locations and sequence of Jesus travels through the Gospel line up with the military campaign of Titus Flavius as if Titus Flavius is implied to be the Jewish savior! The propaganda was designed to imply Titus Flavius was the son of God! The Romans were using religion to govern the people in an occupied land.

First, your characterization of Jews is disgusting, and history puts the lie to that nonsense.

The rest of your post is utter nonsense and pure pap.

dfnj · Oct 20, 2019

shmogie said:
First, your characterization of Jews is disgusting, and history puts the lie to that nonsense.

The rest of your post is utter nonsense and pure pap.

I'm not sure I agree with you. The promise land was occupied when the chosen people showed up and there's been nothing but war ever since.

I doubt we will ever see peace in the Middle East. History has shown there are not many Mahatma Gandhi type people coming out of the Middle East. But I am hopeful someday.

The history is not pretty. Just own it.

"With the analysis done by Joseph Atwill, the key lies in the Dead Sea Scrolls which are the only Jewish literature ever discovered from the first century AD or CE... the time Jesus would have been preaching among the Jews. The characters in the Dead Sea Scrolls were militaristic and you can see that this movement wanted to push the foreigners out of Israel; they were fundamentalists, whereas the characters of the Gospels are not."

It could have been the Egyptian occupation. It has nothing to do with the Jewish people and more to do with the idea the Romans used propaganda in the form of inventing a religion to control a population I find fascinating.

dfnj · Oct 20, 2019

leov said:
I Cor 2:
Two natures of human soul, one worships physical Jesus because they do not understand spiritual nature of Christ Jesus and Christ Spirit.

I don't disagree with what you are saying and your characterization works with your way of thinking.

I have to respond to your way of thinking. One of the problems I have with the Bible is it seems to imply slavery is morally okay. And it seems to claim or imply there is salvation in being a "good" slave and there is a great reward coming to receive in the afterlife. My problem with this way of thinking is it seems to me to be the product of evil intentions by people with superior intellect trying to control the masses.

Friedrich Nietzsche had some interesting criticisms of Christianity. He said Christianity was born in response to Roman oppression. It took hold in the minds of timid slaves who did not have the courage or strength to get hold of what they really wanted. The slaves could not admit to their own failings. So they clung to a philosophy that made virtue of cowardice. Everything the Christians wanted and wished they had in their lives for fulfillment was what was considered to be a sin. A position in the world, prestige, sex, intellectual mastery, personal wealth were too difficult or beyond their reach. The Christian slaves created a hypocritical creed denouncing what they wanted, too weak to fight for, while praising what they did not want, but did have in abundance, as being worth having. So in the Christian value system sexlessness turned into 'purity', weakness became "goodness," submission to authority became "obedience," and in Nietzsche's words, "not-being-able-take-revenge" turned into "forgiveness."

I think for modern man there are well-studied psychological ways of being. The quality of our character is often dictated by events of our childhood. People can study different types of psychology and become more well-round in terms of human character. I think the Beatitudes are great. But I just have a difficult time seeing virtue in being a slave.

dfnj · Oct 20, 2019

Terry Sampson said:
Great! Run that zonker's theory that Joseph Atwill came up with by us again, ... for the benefit of those who missed it the first time or are still scratching their heads.

I've tried to clarify the details a bit for people who do not have the patience to watch the video which is rather long.

I'm really not surprised by people just shooting from the hip with conclusions and opinions. People simply "scratch their heads" without making any effort. I don't care what you think. This post is not meant for people like you who just do not know what talking about. Someone read this and find it as fascinating as I do. Is it true. I don't know. I just find the idea fascinating that it might be true.

Please give me one piece of concrete evidence to invalidate the theory. Hopefully something more substantial than your shoot-from-the-hip commentary. I spend an hour preparing the post and you spend 30 seconds poo pooing it. I tell you what. Just ignore this thread. It's not for you.

Terry Sampson · Oct 20, 2019

dfnj said:
I don't care what you think.

Great! Now let's race to see which of us can put the other on our "Ignore" list first.

Rival · Oct 20, 2019

dfnj said:
Please give me one piece of concrete evidence to invalidate the theory.

1. Why would the Romans use this method of pacifying people when their other methods tended to work much better. Christianity took 300 years to gain a foothold in Rome and even then it was a non-Jewish religion. A military campaign against your occupied groups takes a few weeks and tends to work much better, especially if you're the Romans.

2. Why would they need to invent a patently false messiah? Any Jew worth his salt knew at once that Jesus fulfilled none of the messianic prophecies, especially after the destruction of the Temple. Why invent this person who fits so badly? It's more likely Jesus in some form existed, but Flavius? Are you kidding me? That turncoat? Yeah no.

3. As I said earlier, the Christian movement among Jews fizzled out very quickly and became a gentile movement. Not very good if you want to control the Jewish people.

4. There's absolutely no concept of a human son of G-d in Judaism, this is blasphemy; very few Jews would even hear of this, let alone fall for it. Roman emperors were called sons of god and this would be a familiar phrase to the Jews, and certainly not a welcome one.

5.Christianity was banned in Rome. It was banned. Even in the year 112 C.E. it was still banned. Why invent a religion to pacify people and then ban it?

In short, if this were the plan, it was a terrible one, it failed on a massive scale, Christianity has been a gentile religion since about 150 A.D and the Jews were exiled anyway. This plan sucks.

leov · Oct 20, 2019

dfnj said:
I don't disagree with what you are saying and your characterization works with your way of thinking.

I have to respond to your way of thinking. One of the problems I have with the Bible is it seems to imply slavery is morally okay. And it seems to claim or imply there is salvation in being a "good" slave and there is a great reward coming to receive in the afterlife. My problem with this way of thinking is it seems to me to be the product of evil intentions by people with superior intellect trying to control the masses.

Friedrich Nietzsche had some interesting criticisms of Christianity. He said Christianity was born in response to Roman oppression. It took hold in the minds of timid slaves who did not have the courage or strength to get hold of what they really wanted. The slaves could not admit to their own failings. So they clung to a philosophy that made virtue of cowardice. Everything the Christians wanted and wished they had in their lives for fulfillment was what was considered to be a sin. A position in the world, prestige, sex, intellectual mastery, personal wealth were too difficult or beyond their reach. The Christian slaves created a hypocritical creed denouncing what they wanted, too weak to fight for, while praising what they did not want, but did have in abundance, as being worth having. So in the Christian value system sexlessness turned into 'purity', weakness became "goodness," submission to authority became "obedience," and in Nietzsche's words, "not-being-able-take-revenge" turned into "forgiveness."

I think for modern man there are well-studied psychological ways of being. The quality of our character is often dictated by events of our childhood. People can study different types of psychology and become more well-round in terms of human character. I think the Beatitudes are great. But I just have a difficult time seeing virtue in being a slave.

I realized that OT dealt with people of different type of consciousness (l call it Cain consciousness), which kind of shown in Genesis (Torah) and noted by Julian Jaynes's theory of bicameralism (and introspective mind).
We can not think of OT as something compatible with modern morality but
rather the first steps toward it, as Christ Jesus noted in Matt 5:20:
20"For I tell you, unless your righteousness exceeds that of the scribes and Pharisees, you will never enter the kingdom of heaven."

RoaringSilence · Oct 20, 2019

i just see jesus as the lord of love , mahamantra of forgiveness ..i dont care what bible says ...i know if i need love i call jesus and he comes in my heart.. that works for me ...scripture is boring ...jesus is real and he does come ..to you ..DROP ALL DOGMA and the unwanted knowledge .. call jesus now .. if you want to be in bliss 24 /7

shmogie · Oct 20, 2019

dfnj said:
I'm not sure I agree with you. The promise land was occupied when the chosen people showed up and there's been nothing but war ever since.

I doubt we will ever see peace in the Middle East. History has shown there are not many Mahatma Gandhi type people coming out of the Middle East. But I am hopeful someday.

The history is not pretty. Just own it.

"With the analysis done by Joseph Atwill, the key lies in the Dead Sea Scrolls which are the only Jewish literature ever discovered from the first century AD or CE... the time Jesus would have been preaching among the Jews. The characters in the Dead Sea Scrolls were militaristic and you can see that this movement wanted to push the foreigners out of Israel; they were fundamentalists, whereas the characters of the Gospels are not."

It could have been the Egyptian occupation. It has nothing to do with the Jewish people and more to do with the idea the Romans used propaganda in the form of inventing a religion to control a population I find fascinating.

The Essenes were not militaristic, there was no great cache of weapons found in their settlement below where they buried the scrolls.

They were apocalyptic, meaning that when the Messiah came ( they missed it) They then might fight to bring his kingdom about.

They were peaceful in the desert, studying and writing their scrolls.

As to the conspiracy theory about the Romans and Christ, anyone who believes that would believe that spiderman shot Kennedy, it is ludicrous. No true scholar believes anything like it.

The Essenes cannot be identified as the Zealots, which gave Rome trouble, they are two different groups.

74x12 · Oct 20, 2019

dfnj said:
Be warned! Some Christians might find the following post offensive. Please forgive me at the outset if you find the following material to be insulting. It is very much NOT my intention to insult any Christians or their beliefs.

I think people blindly idolize Jesus and idolize the verses of the Bible. But if you have the tiniest peep-hole of an open mind you might find the research discussed in this post as fascinating as I do.

Consider the following verses from the Bible:

"Ye have heard that it hath been said, An eye for an eye, and a tooth for a tooth: But I say unto you, That ye resist not evil: but whosoever shall smite thee on thy right cheek, turn to him the other also." Matt.5 Verses 38 to 48

“Slaves, submit yourselves to your masters with all respect, not only to the good and gentle but also to the cruel.” (1 Peter 2:18)

Jesus said "Render to Caesar the things that are Caesar's; and to God the things that are God's." Romans 13:1 "Let every person be in subjection to the governing authorities. For there is no authority except from God and those which exist are established by God." Matthew 22:21

*Edit

There's a theory the Gospel was war-time occupational propaganda fabricated by the Romans to pacify the Jewish people. And also to give legitimacy to the Roman occupation by implying a particular Roman military leader was the son of God fulfilling Jewish prophecy.

Here is a link to a video discussing the theory in great detail:

CAESAR'S MESSIAH: The Roman Conspiracy to Invent Jesus - OFFICIAL VERSION

"With the analysis done by Joseph Atwill, the key lies in the Dead Sea Scrolls which are the only Jewish literature ever discovered from the first century AD or CE... the time Jesus would have been preaching among the Jews. The characters in the Dead Sea Scrolls were militaristic and you can see that this movement wanted to push the foreigners out of Israel; they were fundamentalists, whereas the characters of the Gospels are not.

Joseph began studying the other two major works of that era, The 'New testament' and the 'Wars of the Jews' by Josephus, a Roman court historian who described the war between the Romans and the Jews in the first century. While reading these works side by side he noticed an amazing connection between them.

Certain events from the ministry of Jesus seem to closely parallel episodes from the military campaign of Titus Flavius. A campaign which took place forty years after Jesus supposedly lived. Joseph's efforts to understand these connections led him to an incredible discovery. Christianity had been invented by a little known family of Roman Caesars, the Flavians, and they left us documents to prove it."

It's very hard to argue with Atwill's argument with regards to the over 40 topological associations all in the SAME sequence and in the same locations between the two literally works compared in his study. The parallels are ASTOUNDING!

The locations and sequence of Jesus travels through the Gospel line up with the military campaign of Titus Flavius as if Titus Flavius is implied to be the Jewish savior! The propaganda was designed to imply Titus Flavius was the son of God! The Romans were using religion to govern the people in an occupied land.

I think this whole argument ignores how the early Christians were just as persecuted by the Romans as they were by the Jews. In fact many of the apostles are supposed to have been killed by the Romans who were indignant at anyone who wouldn't respect their Roman religion and who wouldn't worship the emperor. The Romans looked at Christians as people spreading Jewish myths and fables that could threaten the fabric of Roman society. That's why the early Christian leaders urged their followers to be obedient as slaves and respect the Roman government. It was an attempt to appease the Romans and also to make sure the new converts stayed as safe as possible.

The Christian religion promising eternal life and happiness was particularly popular among the poor and slaves. This is why Romans viewed it as a threat to the status quo.

Idolizing Jesus and the idolizing the verses of the Bible

dfnj

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Terry Sampson

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Terry Sampson

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leov

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shmogie

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dfnj

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dfnj

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dfnj

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Terry Sampson

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Rival

se Dex me saut.

leov

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RoaringSilence

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shmogie

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74x12

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