Sure, because your "empirical evidence" is capable of defining and determining what does and does not.
So what is?
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Sure, because your "empirical evidence" is capable of defining and determining what does and does not.
Anyone who claims their "disbelief" is justified by the lack of proof for gods existing.
We don't lack proof of their existence. They exist in several ways. You're just so biased in favor of philosophical materialism as being the only possible means of defining existence that you can't see it. As are most of the atheists on here.
We don't lack proof of their existence. They exist in several ways. You're just so biased in favor of philosophical materialism as being the only possible means of defining existence that you can't see it. As are most of the atheists on here.
We don't know what it means to exist, as we are not omniscient.And I thought we were talking about what it means to exist.
Welcome to the human condition. Where we humans don't get all the answers. But that certainly does not make the question of existence "completely meaningless"!And the fact that there is no single concept of phenomenon makes the whole situation *worse*. If there is no proper concept, then questions of existence are completely meaningless.
Well, that we know of. But we just established that we don't know the parameters of what can and can't exist. So ...And yet, they don't exist. They are fictional. The myth may be an interesting social phenomenon, but unicorns, as represented by the myth, do not exist.
Well, that's a very limiting and blinding bias you've got there, then, isn't it. But I guess if it makes you comfortable ...No, I am asking whether something really exists (in the sense that unicorns do not). The other sense of existence holds little interest to me except as literature (fiction).
Anyone who claims their "disbelief" is justified by the lack of proof for gods existing. Which is nearly every atheist I've ever come across on here.
My, that is one MASSIVE blind spot you've got, there!
You can't seriously be posing the idea that human imagination has no effect on reality!Oh, yes, except the imaginative concept of something means it exists from the imagination. It does not mean it holds any sway in our reality of existence.
Without human imagination (cognition), there would be no "reality". Realty, itself is an idea generated by imagination. "Phaedrus", (you) are an imagined concept, just like God and the unicorn. And so is the elaborate "reality" that you see yourself living in.If the imagination is all that is needed for something to exist realistically, no wonder theists are fundamentally and cognitively lost.
We don't know what it means to exist, as we are not omniscient.
I agree. And the first thing we learn about that question is the difference between imagination and reality.Welcome to the human condition. Where we humans don't get all the answers. But that certainly does not make the question of existence "completely meaningless"
Sure, it is *possible* that unicorns that fart rainbows and poop ice cream exist on some distant planet. But they certainly don't hereWell, that we know of. But we just established that we don't know the parameters of what can and can't exist. So ...
Well, that's a very limiting and blinding bias you've got there, then, isn't it. But I guess if it makes you comfortable ...
Well, if you want to go off on an unrelated secular tangent, then I have to state that the imagination can create that which can be proven to realistically exist in our world. Unfortunately, despite your error in attempting to be disingenuous, I understand that god is not even in the same ballpark.You can't seriously be posing the idea that human imagination has no effect on reality!
You can't seriously be posing the idea that human imagination has no effect on reality!
Without human imagination (cognition), there would be no "reality". Realty, itself is an idea generated by imagination. "Phaedrus", (you) are an imagined concept, just like God and the unicorn. And so is the elaborate "reality" that you see yourself living in.
So don't. I don't see any reason to "believe in them", either. But the myths still exist, and so does the artifice they employ, and so do the ideas they were created to convey. Why would I dismiss all these just because the myth is mythical???Lack of *evidence*. I can imagine any number of mythical creatures for which there is no evidence. And I see no reason to believe in any of them.
The "what if" possibilities are endless. So the question becomes; how can we use these "what if's" (possibilities) to our advantage?For example, perhaps our universe was created by a child of a race of high dimensional beings. The four dimensional manifold (complete with time internally) was formed, played with for a while, and then discarded. Now it is forgotten in a pile of forgotten toys.
I see no reason to "believe in" any of them, either. But the possibilities remain, and the possibility of them being of use to us remains, as well. Which is why people explore those possibilities with their imaginations, and why they adopt some of those possibilities as a hoped for reality. Because they find this useful.There is *just* as much evidence to believe this story as there is to believe any other story concerning deities. I don't believe in any of them for *exactly* the same reason: lack of evidence.
We aren't going to figure out how things actually are. As limited humans, we do not possess that capacity.It is trivially easy to spin wild fantasies about how things could be. The trick is figuring out how they actually are.
We aren't going to figure out how things actually are. As limited humans, we do not possess that capacity.
So don't. I don't see any reason to "believe in them", either. But the myths still exist, and so does the artifice they employ, and so do the ideas they were created to convey. Why would I dismiss all these just because the myth is mythical???
The "what if" possibilities are endless. So the question becomes; how can we use these "what if's" (possibilities) to our advantage?
I see no reason to "believe in" any of them, either. But the possibilities remain, and the possibility of them being of use to us remains, as well. Which is why people explore those possibilities with their imaginations, and why they adopt some of those possibilities as a hoped for reality. Because they find them useful.
We aren't going to figure out how things actually are.
As limited humans, we do not possess that capacity.
We still can't know how God exists, or even would exist, if God exists. Why are you finding this so difficult to accept?OK, so let's put it this way.
Does God exist in the same sense as unicorns?
Or does God exist in the same sense as the sun?
Or does God exist in the same sense as the number 2?
Theology begins, here ....
The assumption that belief demands proof is unjustified.
But these wouldn't be "people", then. They'd be something else. Robots, maybe.
Ignorance is bliss. But willful ignorance is a choice. Now that the "God" possibility is out of the bag, you can't remain in blissfully ignorance. Now you must choose to be ignorant. And that's what you atheists can't face, or defend, and so try to hide behind the convoluted sophistry of "unbelief".
We don't. That's true. But it's exactly because we don't know that all those possibilities remain possible. And because they are still possible, we can logically choose to trust in the possibility that we find most appealing: most positive, hopeful, and effecting in our current (ignorant) lives.
Whereas the atheist just blindly rejects all those possibilities and all the possible benefits that they might afford him simply because he can't have the proof he demands: that the possibility he chooses will be the one that will manifest as true. He has no faith, and no imagination, and I think that's very sad. Because he's still just another ignorant human, and now without hope or imagination.
We still can't know how God exists, or even would exist, if God exists. Why are you finding this so difficult to accept?
WE DON'T KNOW. WE AREN'T GOING TO KNOW. NO ONE ELSE CAN TELL US. The question of God remains a question. And will remain a question. Looking for evidence and not finding it doesn't mean anything. The question remains exactly as it was. And so do the endless possibilities that it embodies. So the question to you is: are any of those endless possibilities of particular positive use/value to YOU? Could they be?
Theology begins, here ....
WE DON'T KNOW. WE AREN'T GOING TO KNOW. NO ONE ELSE CAN TELL US.
WOW! You really can't see any truth in literature and fiction? Man! I feel bad for you! And by the way, no scientist claims truth, or even to be seeking it.I don't. I put them in their appropriate place: as literature and fiction. As opposed to science and truth.
I have no control over what other people choose to believe, and neither do you. But I can explain to you WHY they choose to believe these things. Something that seems to totally frustrate and perplex you.No, many actually believe that deities exist in the same sense that unicorns do not. They think their deity is real in essentially the same sense as that this chair is real.
We wouldn't even be human, without it. Yet you seem to feel that it's a silly and pointless pursuit. That scares me.If all you are doing is creating fun myths and meaningful stories, go for it. Fiction is a wonderful human endeavor.