Catholic and Protestant faith....

logos said:

There was also in this a dynastic succession which was always replaced by someone else who followed, when those in that office no longer occupied it.

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How do you know this? None of the passages you listed seem to suggest that. Can you prove it to me?

logos said:

These are just a few biblical references on papal authority, there are many others.

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I would love to see them .

What about those who are niether Catholic nor Protestant?

I don't believe in reformation, but rather restoration. Going back to our Christian roots and traditions that are found only in the New Testament is the only way for many of us.

BTW, when Jesus gave Peter the keys, he made no allowances for a succession. It was just after Peter made the great confession... and Jesus said "You are a little rock, but on this BIG rock (Peter's confession) I will build my church. The foundation of the one true church is that Jesus is the Christ, the Son of the living God.

Peter opened up salvation for us in Acts 2 which IS the birth of the one true church. Peter told us just how to respond to become Christians. Preaching any other Gospel is anathema!

Ahem!
I can I believe, that all of you seem to be skipping over some very dire issues that the Roman Catholic Church believes in and is condeminalbe by:
-Marian Worship (Worshipping Mary) : Any person who worships anything or anybody in this case Saint Mary, is not a Christian end of argument. If you disagree, I suggest picking up your bible and seeing where Jesus worshipped Mary or where any of the other Christians and Apostles did.
- Transubtiation (The Changing of the Bread and WIne into the real Body and Blood of Jesus): This doctrine is not only false but is repugnent to the Scriptures. The act of Transubtiation represents a continual sacrificing of Jesus as states that Jesus' one death and resurrection was not enough.
-Papal Authority (The Pope in Rome): No man or women should be chosen as Christ on Earth or given the fake authority of who is worthy for Heaven or not, God is the judge of all of Creation and Him alone!
If any person or thing weishes to disagree with me I would love to hear from you and hear what you argument is, bearing in mind that the argument is flawless and is in no worthy of Condemnation!

Wow.... Hi Luke.... long time--no post! Good to see you here at RF.

Luke said:

Ahem!
I can I believe, that all of you seem to be skipping over some very dire issues that the Roman Catholic Church believes in and is condeminalbe by:

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Well.... I was hoping that more people would make posts about what we agree on.... and things that we can praise God together for..... but it seems that you would prefer to cast stones.... to each, his own I guess. I don't mind disagreement... Linus and I get along really well because he replies to threads as a Christian... and, I hope, looks on those who are in error with love and compassion (Romans 14).....

Here we go with Catholic 101

• We do not worship Mary.
• "repugnent"..... not quite..."Truly, I say to you, unless you eat the flesh of the Son of man and drink his blood, you have no life in you.".... hardly contrary to the Scriptures.... but maybe contrary to YOUR view of Scripture, but that happens sometimes="This is a hard saying; who can listen to it?" The Eucharist is not a continual sacrifice... you just don't know what you're talking about.... but that's ok, I'm the Catholic, let me teach you: From the Catechism of the Catholic Church: The Eucharist is the memorial of Christ's Passover, the making present and the sacramental offering of his unique sacrifice, in the liturgy of the Church which is his Body. In the New Testament, the memorial takes on new meaning. When the Church celebrates the Eucharist, she commemorates Christ's Passover, and it is made present the sacrifice Christ offered once for all on the cross remains ever present. The Eucharist is thus a sacrifice because it re-presents (makes present) the sacrifice of the cross, because it is its memorial and because it applies its fruit: [Christ], our Lord and God, was once and for all to offer himself to God the Father by his death on the altar of the cross, to accomplish there an everlasting redemption. But because his priesthood was not to end with his death, at the Last Supper "on the night when he was betrayed," [he wanted] to leave to his beloved spouse the Church a visible sacrifice (as the nature of man demands) by which the bloody sacrifice which he was to accomplish once for all on the cross would be re-presented, its memory perpetuated until the end of the world, and its salutary power be applied to the forgiveness of the sins we daily commit.
• Well, I'm sure you've read the comments above (I hope) about Matt 16.... and you just don't believe them. Super.... but please don't be so foolish to believe that just because you think it's so will cancel out 2,000 or so years of the Church. The Primacy of Peter is well established in the early history of the Christian church.... to denounce the Papacy because of the sins of past Popes is understandable, but to be so blind to history to doubt office of the Vicar of Christ....? .... and the Pope is just that, the visible head of the Christian faith, not Christ on Earth.

If any person or thing weishes to disagree with me I would love to hear from you and hear what you argument is, bearing in mind that the argument is flawless and is in no worthy of Condemnation!

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Well.... I weish to disagree.... but I look forward to hearing from you..... your argument is not as flawless as you may have thought!

Peace in Christ,
Scott

Firstly its nice to back, been away on business only to come back the internet is just about the same as ever.
Lets take one of my points and expand: Marian Worship!
I highly praise you for not worshipping Mary, but unfortunately there are quite a few RC's who would disagree with you there. As an Anglican I am quite aware that there are some even in my denomination that do worship Mary, these are mostly Ex-Catholics though, or so I am told. But lets not condemn or judge on hearsay.
The "Hail Mary" and other such 'psalms/songs' and creeds which state that Mary is the "Emmaculate Conception" dictates as doctrine that Roman Catholics place Saint Mary above Jesus. Now some will deny this, but then they would worship Mary as next to Jesus.
So my next blow comes from the Commandments:
"I am the Lord your God, who brought you out of Egypt, out of the land of slavery. You shall have no other gods besides me." Deut. 5: 6-7
Mary is held as a Goddess by the Church of Rome based on pagan traditions of Isis and Cybil. The very nature of Marian Worship therefore is not derived from Scripture but is heretical based on Man made beliefs and is condemnable by the highest order.
As Christians, not that some people I know would call RC's that but, we let God judge and condemn and praise men and women for there works. But there comes a time that TRUE Christians must stand for what they believe and throw some punches. Wouldn't you Agree?

Brothers and Sisters in Christ

2 Timothy 4



1In the presence of God and of Christ Jesus, who will judge the living and the dead, and in view of his appearing and his kingdom, I give you this charge: 2Preach the Word; be prepared in season and out of season; correct, rebuke and encourage–with great patience and careful instruction. 3For the time will come when men will not put up with sound doctrine. Instead, to suit their own desires, they will gather around them a great number of teachers to say what their itching ears want to hear. 4They will turn their ears away from the truth and turn aside to myths. 5But you, keep your head in all situations, endure hardship, do the work of an evangelist, discharge all the duties of your ministry. 6For I am already being poured out like a drink offering, and the time has come for my departure. 7I have fought the good fight, I have finished the race, I have kept the faith. 8Now there is in store for me the crown of righteousness, which the Lord, the righteous Judge, will award to me on that day–and not only to me, but also to all who have longed for his appearing.

Luke, can I ask you one question? Who gave birth to Jesus? If Mary didn't giv birth to Jesus, would Jesus have been able to live and teach what he did? Or even able to die? No of course not. I am not sure if you love your mother, but catholics sure love theirs. They do not place Mary above Jesus, this is a common misconception of catholics due to ignorance. Catholics view Mary as virgin from birth to death, therfore she is mother of god, blessed amongst women, etc... Catholics do not worship Mary, they honor her, and love her dearly. As most would love their mother, and I'm sure you do.

First i would like to ask Dadball who's arguement he was supporting there?
Secondly in response to Master Vigil, I love my mother dearly. However I don't go and build idols in her image, light candles in front of her and pray to her asking for her to intercede between my God and I. Is that not what you do. Oh no you would never admit to that. But before anyone starts ranting that I have no respect for Saint Mary, I do, what she did and what she said. However I do not pray to her, which is what Roman Catholic's do (forgive me if I'm wrong but I know that I am not) nor do I place her above any religious figure because of what she did. And for all those that haven't already noticed, Mary was just a girl. God chose her to bring Jesus into this world, but that does not place her in any type of authority.
I would encourage those who have read it to rethink their faith, maybe not change it but at least think about some very important issues concerning the Roman Catholic and Protestant faiths.
And for all those wondering if you do admit or refuse to admit that you pray or worship Saint Mary, well I believe they used to do the same thing with other wooden statues in ancient times and unfortunately still today, and they called/call it "Idolatry"!

First i would like to ask Dadball who's arguement he was supporting there?

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Both:woohoo:

Luke,

The ignorance (God bless them) of some Catholics who elevate Mary to equal to Christ is something that you should pray to God to guide them back to the truth. To attack the Church because some of it's members are in error is not Christian..... we are all in this world together and I would hope you change your attitude to one more Christ-like.

The Catechism of the Council of Trent (1566) taught that idolatry is committed "by worshipping idols and images as God, or believing that they possess any divinity or virtue entitling them to our worship, by praying to, or reposing confidence in them" (374).

"Idolatry is a perversion of man’s innate religious sense. An idolater is someone who ‘transfers his indestructible notion of God to anything other than God’" (CCC 2114).

The Church absolutely recognizes and condemns the sin of idolatry. What anti-Catholics fail to recognize is the distinction between thinking a piece of stone or plaster is a god and desiring to visually remember Christ and the saints in heaven by making statues in their honor. The making and use of religious statues is a thoroughly biblical practice. Anyone who says otherwise doesn’t know his Bible.

Peace my brother,
Scott

Luke, I am not catholic but I at least can see the truth about them. I hope you can take Scotts post to heart and stop ranting about what some ignorant catholics do, and start really studying and seeing the truth behind what you so desperately hate. Oh, and Mary isn't a saint. She is just Mary. And another thing alot of people are ignorant about is the intercession of prayers. Do you ever ask someone to pray for you? I'm sure you do, people do not pray TO Mary, they ask her to pray for them. But unlike asking another person (who can only do it some of the time), they ask those in heaven who can pray for them ALL of the time. Please do not let some ignorant catholics put a shroud in front of your face. Look past that shroud and see the truth my friend. Love is what they give to Mary and the saints. How can you condemn love?

Dear Scott and Vigil,
I would first like to say that it is not in my nature (outside the internet) to rant and rave, though I seem to get a little over zealous in these forums. I would like to apologise if I have offended anyone, but because of my beliefs I am not sorry for all things that I say, just like anyone else.

Vigil, I do not condemn love and Scott I do understand what you are saying. I have many, many Catholic friends (along with numerous Protestants) and I am about to enter a Catholic school. I understand that many build statues to commemorate the honour of the saints and Jesus. I support this 100%. But it is when the religious rumours, suspicions and false beliefs start to arise and pagan influences start to infiltrate, that we must take our stand. Unfortunately it is more often that it is the unreligious masses that condemn the religious thinkers and carers that fall into these traps and start to bring down the rest.
I would call on all Catholics and Protestants and Orthodox and Anglicans to stand up against the evils that are poisoning society. New Age, Witchcraft and other Eastern or "traditional" cults and beliefs are so common nowadays that you would think we were in a horror movie. I call on all Christians and any who would help us especially Jews, to stamp out these infiltrators and stand for their faith. Their TRUE FAITH and may Jesus, The Lord and Saviour and King of All, go with you.

You are both on the same side whether you want to believe it or not, it's just like inter-race racism from the way I see it, you either join together in that realization or divide yourselves by it as has been done for centuries.

I'm sorry Luke, you did not affend me before. But you did now. I find that Christianity is not the sole true religion. If you study enough you figure out that all true religions talk about the same thing. The words are just different. At the core, they are all the same. And that core is goodness. It doesn't matter if you believe Jesus was the son of god, or if the buddha reached enlightenment, or if Mohammed really heard god speaking to him, or if Lao Tzu really existed, etc... Those are only the surface areas of religion. I certainly hope you do not believe that the Dalai Lama is evil, or Ghandi, buddha, or Lao Tzu, etc... If you do, then you are certainly blinded by your faith. And if you study the history of religions, they all build upon the older and former religions. ALL religions are built upon pagan beliefs, no matter if you like it or not. Did you know that Jesus was not the only god to be born of a virgin, be killed and risen up into heaven? Nor was he the first. Where did they get the idea from I wonder? Hmmm... Perhaps Pagan religions.

"New Age, Witchcraft and other Eastern or "traditional" cults and beliefs are so common nowadays that you would think we were in a horror movie."

This sickens me Luke. I wonder how many true wiccans or taoists or buddhists or shintoists you have ever met. And I'm not just talking about the stupid people who only claim that they follow those religions. All religions have truth and false in them. Don't be blind.

Vigil You are right chirstianity is not the true soul religion its the Catholic Church that is the true religion

truthseekingsoul said:

I wonder why some christians title themselves such, when their only objective is to battle with other followers of Christ. Not many Irish people here granted, but what's the point in all the separation and dispute if you believe in the same god, Jesus, and heaven?

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You hit the mark. What it comes down to, is people's own perception of God.
If we really Knew him, as he is, then there should be no seperation. But the fact that there is so much seperation, this tells me a whole lot us really doesn't know him.
I personally believe God is not about religion but about peace and about life.
He is that which may dwell in our heart for peace and life.
God is Love.
God is peace.
God is freedom for life.
There is no fear in Love. No judgment.

EUCHARIST said:

Vigil You are right chirstianity is not the true soul religion its the Catholic Church that is the true religion

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Of course. The Holy Orthodox Catholic Church of the East .

Sorry...I couldn't resist .

haha NO*S ORTHODOX IS RAD! lol

Hehe. Glad to see you thought it was funny. I really couldn't resist it. .

kassi said:

You hit the mark. What it comes down to, is people's own perception of God.
If we really Knew him, as he is, then there should be no seperation. But the fact that there is so much seperation, this tells me a whole lot us really doesn't know him.
I personally believe God is not about religion but about peace and about life.
He is that which may dwell in our heart for peace and life.
God is Love.
God is peace.
God is freedom for life.
There is no fear in Love. No judgment.

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Do you know Christ?..... because if u did you would know that Christ founded the Catholic Church on Peter the First Pope