I could never blame an atheist for being an atheist

lostwanderingsoul said:

I will say that this is very interesting. I completely agree with your line that we are "human spirits" although I might prefer to say we HAVE human spirits. But human spirits are not divine. Only God is divine and when our human spirit combines with God's spirit, a new creature is formed ( a new divine spirit ) because it is made from God's divine spirit.

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I get what you're saying, but I don't believe the scriptures actually teach that our human spirit combines with God's spirit. I would agree with you that there is a point where a human being may become "a new creature." This, I believe to be the result of a conscious decision on an individual's part to take upon himself the name of Jesus Christ. According to the Book of Mormon, when this happens, the spirit of God brings about "a mighty change in...our hearts, that we have no more disposition to do evil, but to do good continually." This doesn't mean that we now have a different spirit (i.e. life force) than we had before, but that the divine spark which has always existed in us has been ignited.

But I must question your statement that God "begat our spirits". Let's go back to Pinocchio. The old wood carver did not begat the puppet. Begat usually means the process of making a baby. Adam begat Cain and Able because he had sex with Eve. The fact that God may have breathed a spirit into Adam is not the same. Making a baby requires the joining of something from a man and a woman. Making a spirit that can be called a child of God requires the joining of a human spirit and God's spirit. It requires an act. Not just the fact that a person is alive and has a spirit.

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Well, apparently, we're going to just have to agree to disagree on this issue. You said that to beget "usually" means the process of making a baby. I would agree that in terms of making a baby, that is how the word is always used. But the dictionary also defines "to beget" as to "give rise to or bring about." When God breathed Adam's spirit into his body, He did, in fact, give rise to a living soul. Have you ever really stopped to think about the origins of a human spirit? While I believe the sex act can obviously result in the creation of a human body, I definitely don't believe human beings have the ability to produce a human spirit. I believe only God has that power. That is why God is referred to in the scriptures as being "the Father of spirits."

And NO I do not believe in baptizing babies. But that is for another discussion.

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Actually, it's for this discussion, because you said in an earlier post that "when a person is baptized, that person receives God's spirit." If you don't believe in baptizing babies (good for you; we agree on that!), when do the individuals who were baptized as babies receive God's spirit? Evidently, baptism is not the determining factor after all.

Thanks for listening.

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And thank you as well.

9-10ths_Penguin said:

You are arguing that God does interact with humans. I am saying that I find your claim that God communicates with humanity - through messengers, holy spirits, or two tin cans and a string - to be unreasonable.

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Can you tell me WHY you think it is unreasonable for God to communicate with humans in some way?

Communicating to Messengers is not the same as interacting. It is not a two-way conversation. Also, it is ONLY God’s chosen ones who He communicates to, and this is not only a Baha’i belief. Jews believe that God communicated to Moses, Christians believe God communicated to Jesus, and Muslims believe God communicated to Muhammad.

The difference is that Christians believe that God has a family and God interacts with them on a personal level and Baha’is do not believe that. Baha’is believe that God is above everything that can ever be recounted or perceived and that the only way we can ever know anything about God is through His Manifestations (Messengers).

9-10ths_Penguin said:

You're testing my patience. Are you deliberately trying to misrepresent what I'm saying?

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I am not representing what you are saying, I am representing what I am saying.

9-10ths_Penguin said:

Please stop assuming Baha'i doctrine as if everyone agrees with it. It's an obstacle to communication.

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Free will is not a doctrine of the Baha’i Faith. Jews, Christians, and Muslims also believe we have free will. Christians also believe that God wants us to search for Him. Not only Baha’is believe that.

Hebrews 11:6 And without faith it is impossible to please God, because anyone who approaches Him must believe that He exists and that He rewards those who earnestly seek Him.

HonestJoe said:

Can you seriously not see how that is exactly what everyone else says about their faith? You all believe you have that special source or insight that is somehow better than all the others and you can’t all be right.

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We can all be right in the sense of having a true religion that came from God, but *I believe* that only one of us can be the right religion for this age in history; because every age has its own problems, the remedy the world needs in the present day can never be what it needed in past ages or what it will need in the future.

HonestJoe said:

I disagree that being atheist automatically or implicitly makes someone more objective. I disagree that atheists can’t also be “believers” and can’t “want to believe”. That simple and variable descriptive characteristic doesn’t really tell you all that much about an individual or how they’d approach this question. Atheists aren't as unique or special as many like to think they are either.

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You are right, being an atheist does not automatically make one more objective. I was speaking generally again, but all atheists are individuals just as all believers are individuals. I think that every individual is unique.

HonestJoe said:

”People argue so strongly with each other not because they’re confident other people are wrong but because deep down, they’re not at all confident they’re right.”

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Why do you think that?

HonestJoe said:

I don’t see how all these “new truths” can be valid though. Truth is truth. Loads of people have proposed various adjustments or entire replacements to the various religions at different times and places. Some failed entirely, some caused change in a religion, some ended up creating new sects or faiths. Interestingly, what actually comes out of this kind of thing in the end isn’t always consistent with what was being argued in the first place.

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I did not say that ALL the “new truths” are valid, because what people consider truth might be false. So how can we know what is true and what is false? That is the hundred-dollar question. If it is a religious truth it cannot be proven like a scientific truth so we are not going to be able to prove it, except to ourselves. To me it is logical that if there is a God, God would reveal contradictory messages, but rather new ones would be additions, revealed as mankind was ready for them.

I do not think that the great world religions contradict each other; rather, the believers in these religions have altered and misinterpreted what was originally revealed by God so the messages appear to contradict. The messages are different but that is because times change and the world changes and people change, so they need a new and different message in every new age. However, if we looked at the spiritual teachings, we would see that they are essential the same in all the great world religions. In the following quote, the Law of God refers to what is revealed by God through Messengers of God.

“the Law of God is divided into two parts. One is the fundamental basis which comprises all spiritual things—that is to say, it refers to the spiritual virtues and divine qualities; this does not change nor alter: it is the Holy of Holies, which is the essence of the Law of Adam, Noah, Abraham, Moses, Christ, Muhammad, the Báb, and Bahá’u’lláh, and which lasts and is established in all the prophetic cycles. It will never be abrogated, for it is spiritual and not material truth; it is faith, knowledge, certitude, justice, piety, righteousness, trustworthiness, love of God, benevolence, purity, detachment, humility, meekness, patience and constancy. It shows mercy to the poor, defends the oppressed, gives to the wretched and uplifts the fallen......

These foundations of the Religion of God, which are spiritual and which are the virtues of humanity, cannot be abrogated; they are irremovable and eternal, and are renewed in the cycle of every Prophet.

The second part of the Religion of God, which refers to the material world, and which comprises fasting, prayer, forms of worship, marriage and divorce, the abolition of slavery, legal processes, transactions, indemnities for murder, violence, theft and injuries—this part of the Law of God, which refers to material things, is modified and altered in each prophetic cycle in accordance with the necessities of the times.” Some Answered Questions, pp. 47-48

In addition to these two parts of the Religion of God, we have the primary mission of each Messenger, which changes from age to age; and it is progressive, each mission building upon the previous one. Jesus focused on a high standard of morality and discipline into man, as the fundamental unit in human society. Muhammad focused on nation building, and Baha’u’llah focused on world unity and the oneness of mankind. Each one of these was a necessary building block that enabled the next one to take place. Mankind’s spiritual evolution develops gradually, proceeding step by step, and that is why God reveals religious Truth in various stages over time. That is called Progressive Revelation.

HonestJoe said:

So again, from the outside you come across as no different to all the ones that came before and all the ones who will inevitable come after and your insistence that your line is new, unique and special is just another way in which you’re repeating what came before you. And you should agree with me because by your own assertion, as a non-believer I should have a better understanding than you.

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I would agree with you that maybe the Baha’i Faith is no different from the religions that came before it, if you understood the underpinning theology of the Baha’i Faith, but I don’t think you do.

Please show me one other great world religion that teaches progressive revelation. Show me one religion that teaches that all the great world religions had the truth from God for their age and that there will be more truth from God revealed in the future, throughout all of eternity. No religion actually taught that they were the best or the final religionfrom God, but religious believers from the older religions such as Judaism, Christianity and Islam have clung to those religions and they believe that they are the *best and last* religion that God will ever reveal.

Christians and Muslims recognize the Messengers who revealed the religions that came before their Messenger but they still believe that the Messenger of their religion is the best and final Messenger. By contrast, Baha’is believe that all the Messengers are equal in stature and we are disallowed from raising one up over any other. Some of their missions were more critical but they were all necessary to the spiritual evolution of humanity. The belief that all the Manifestations of God (Messengers) came from one God and fulfilled God’s Purpose for their age as ordained by God is called Divine Unity. This theology is not really all that complicated but it is different from what the other great religions teach.

“Beware, O believers in the Unity of God, lest ye be tempted to make any distinction between any of the Manifestations of His Cause, or to discriminate against the signs that have accompanied and proclaimed their Revelation. This indeed is the true meaning of Divine Unity, if ye be of them that apprehend and believe this truth. Be ye assured, moreover, that the works and acts of each and every one of these Manifestations of God, nay whatever pertaineth unto them, and whatsoever they may manifest in the future, are all ordained by God, and are a reflection of His Will and Purpose. Whoso maketh the slightest possible difference between their persons, their words, their messages, their acts and manners, hath indeed disbelieved in God, hath repudiated His signs, and betrayed the Cause of His Messengers.”Gleanings From the Writings of Bahá’u’lláh, pp. 59-60

Trailblazer said:

Can you tell me WHY you think it is unreasonable for God to communicate with humans in some way?

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I've told you several times now, but here's a summary:

- when we look around, we see that only beings that are the product of social environments are interested in socializing. God, if he existed, would be the product of the least social environment that has ever existed.

- we can also see that the less we have in common with something, the less we can relate to it: we can decipher a lot of what, say, chimps and wolves communicate, but squid communication is so alien to us that we can't figure it out. We have more in common with the bizarre lifeforms that live in volcanic vents at the bottom of the sea than we would have with something as alien as God.

Communicating to Messengers is not the same as interacting. It is not a two-way conversation.

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Suggestion: instead of arguing that you know what I was trying to say better than I do, put that energy into trying to figure out what I mean... even if I used a different word than you would have chosen to describe something.

Also, it is ONLY God’s chosen ones who He communicates to, and this is not only a Baha’i belief.

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Yes: thanks to the many times that you've tried to insert Baha'i beliefs into our conversations regardless of whether it's wanted or relevant, I realize this about Baha'i belief, and I really do mean to say that I find it implausible to the point of being ridiculous.

Jews believe that God communicated to Moses, Christians believe God communicated to Jesus, and Muslims believe God communicated to Muhammad.

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That's right. I think their beliefs are implausible to the point of being ridiculous as well.

The difference is that Christians believe that God has a family and God interacts with them on a personal level and Baha’is do not believe that. Baha’is believe that God is above everything that can ever be recounted or perceived and that the only way we can ever know anything about God is through His Manifestations (Messengers).

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I don't care.

I'm sensing a great deal of egoism went into the title of this thread.

Katzpur said:

I get what you're saying, but I don't believe the scriptures actually teach that our human spirit combines with God's spirit. I would agree with you that there is a point where a human being may become "a new creature." This, I believe to be the result of a conscious decision on an individual's part to take upon himself the name of Jesus Christ. According to the Book of Mormon, when this happens, the spirit of God brings about "a mighty change in...our hearts, that we have no more disposition to do evil, but to do good continually." This doesn't mean that we now have a different spirit (i.e. life force) than we had before, but that the divine spark which has always existed in us has been ignited.

Well, apparently, we're going to just have to agree to disagree on this issue. You said that to beget "usually" means the process of making a baby. I would agree that in terms of making a baby, that is how the word is always used. But the dictionary also defines "to beget" as to "give rise to or bring about." When God breathed Adam's spirit into his body, He did, in fact, give rise to a living soul. Have you ever really stopped to think about the origins of a human spirit? While I believe the sex act can obviously result in the creation of a human body, I definitely don't believe human beings have the ability to produce a human spirit. I believe only God has that power. That is why God is referred to in the scriptures as being "the Father of spirits."

Actually, it's for this discussion, because you said in an earlier post that "when a person is baptized, that person receives God's spirit." If you don't believe in baptizing babies (good for you; we agree on that!), when do the individuals who were baptized as babies receive God's spirit? Evidently, baptism is not the determining factor after all.

And thank you as well.

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Just one more comment. I do not believe that the act of baptism is what gives us a new spirit. But the repentance and acceptance of Jesus that leads to the act of baptism. I will have to give more thought to the subject of spirits. I sort of think that humans are born with a spirit just like they are born with a heart or liver. It is just part of being human. But I will study this some more. And again, thanks for an honest discussion. So many on here just want to bash other people's beliefs. But I think we all have something to offer and maybe something to learn.

9-10ths_Penguin said:

I asked: Can you tell me WHY you think it is unreasonable for God to communicate with humans in some way?

You answered:
- when we look around, we see that only beings that are the product of social environments are interested in socializing. God, if he existed, would be the product of the least social environment that has ever existed.

- we can also see that the less we have in common with something, the less we can relate to it: we can decipher a lot of what, say, chimps and wolves communicate, but squid communication is so alien to us that we can't figure it out. We have more in common with the bizarre lifeforms that live in volcanic vents at the bottom of the sea than we would have with something as alien as God.

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Your answer just explained the reason why God uses Messengers to communicate instead of communicating directly to humans. Humans have nothing in common with God so the Messengers of God act as intermediaries between God and humans because they two natures, a divine nature and a human nature.

9-10ths_Penguin said:

I said: Also, it is ONLY God’s chosen ones who He communicates to, and this is not only a Baha’i belief.

You said: I realize this about Baha'i belief, and I really do mean to say that I find it implausible to the point of being ridiculous.

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9-10ths_Penguin said:

I said: Jews believe that God communicated to Moses, Christians believe God communicated to Jesus, and Muslims believe God communicated to Muhammad.

You said: That's right. I think their beliefs are implausible to the point of being ridiculous as well.

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Yet you can give me no logical reason why it is implausible to the point of being ridiculous. You just think it is implausible to the point of being ridiculous. I think God not existing is implausible to the point of being ridiculous, so does that make it implausible to the point of being ridiculous?

I hope you understand the point I am getting at.

The fact that God is not a social being and the fact that we have little in common with God so we cannot relate to God does not explain why it would be either implausible or ridiculous for God to communicate through a Messenger. In fact it explains why it is logical for God to use Messengers to communicate.

Trailblazer said:

I probably should not post this today because I won’t have much time to answer posts after today, till the weekend, unless the posts are short. But I had a heartfelt feeling and I just had to share it.

These ideas for threads often come to me after a day in the trenches reading what people post and then it reaches critical mass when I see Christians arguing about *what the Bible means.* One Christian believes it means x, another one believes it means y, and another one believes it means z. These beliefs are contradictory so any logical person would know that either only one is right and all the others are wrong or they are all wrong.

Of course it usually takes an atheist to parse this out because those believers who *want to believe* something will find a way to interpret the Bible so they can believe what they want to believe. The atheists are right that most belief is emotional, and this pertains more to Christians than to other believers because they are emotionally attached to Jesus. They are also attached to the belief that Jesus is going to return, after which time they will be resurrected and go to heaven or live forever on earth in a Garden of Eden, depending upon which belief they have. All this comes with a guarantee, because they were saved by the blood of Jesus. Who would want to give all that up unless they had a *reason* to give it up?

I cannot comment on other religions because I am not very familiar with them, but most Christians and Jews do not understand that they believe what they do mostly because of religious traditions they came to believe without question. Moreover, human behavior is driven more by emotion than by reason, so unless one makes a concerted effort to think rationally and overcome emotion that will not happen.

Most people do not understand the emotional component of belief because most people do not have an in depth understanding of psychology. I just happen to have a lot of education in psychology and wore that hat much longer than any religion hat. I became a Baha’i based upon logic and reason, not emotion. It just made sense to me. I have no emotional attachment to Baha’u’llah or God. I should love God more but given all the suffering I see in the world that is difficult.

How the hell could any atheist ever figure out which religion is true, or if any religion is true? Just look at all the religions on this forum, and look at all the different beliefs within the same religion. Then there are believers who have no religion at all. How can any atheist be expected to parse this all out? If I was an atheist, I would probably just forget the whole thing, but then I was never very interested in God anyhow.

I do not expect any atheist to figure out which religion is true unless they are really enthusiastic about believing in God, because it would be a near impossible feat. Of course, I think that God would guide them if they were sincere and made the effort, because that is what I believe. That does not mean they would end up believing in the true religion, but it sure would help.

““Whoso maketh efforts for Us,” he shall enjoy the blessings conferred by the words: “In Our Ways shall We assuredly guide him.”” Gleanings From the Writings of Bahá’u’lláh, pp. 266-267

Now I want to post a passage that explains why people are so confused in this new age. Mind you, I do not fully understand what this passage means. For example I do not know why “This “oppression” is the essential feature of every Revelation” or why “the break of the morn of divine guidance must needs follow the darkness of the night of error.” Baha’u’llah’s Writings are often very deep and I am not very mystical, I am an analytical type of person.

“What “oppression” is greater than that which hath been recounted? What “oppression” is more grievous than that a soul seeking the truth, and wishing to attain unto the knowledge of God, should know not where to go for it and from whom to seek it? For opinions have sorely differed, and the ways unto the attainment of God have multiplied. This “oppression” is the essential feature of every Revelation. Unless it cometh to pass, the Sun of Truth will not be made manifest. For the break of the morn of divine guidance must needs follow the darkness of the night of error. For this reason, in all chronicles and traditions reference hath been made unto these things, namely that iniquity shall cover the surface of the earth and darkness shall envelop mankind. As the traditions referred to are well known, and as the purpose of this servant is to be brief, He will refrain from quoting the text of these traditions.” The Kitab-i-Iqan, pp. 31-32

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Hmmm??? Why is BLAME so important? Atheists choose their path just as theists. Both are acting out of beliefs just as you are.

Are you trying to say one of the choices is bad? In reality, everyone learns through their free choices. Everyone is on the path to God regardless of these choices. There are an infinite number of paths one can choose and by simply making a free choice, one is making the right choice.

When all the facts are not known, beliefs supply the patch that covers the missing information. Beliefs are important or we would lock up just like my old computer when all the facts are not known.

Yes, feelings stems the beliefs needed. Perhaps the big mistake is to do as religion suggests and place beliefs above the facts. That is when one will stray from the real truth.

The opposite views of atheists and theists are very important. Each shows their opposites a view that should not be ignored.

AS I see it, God places truth around us all. On the other hand, Discovery takes work. Accepting the Beliefs of others is so much easier than doing the work of Discovery.

Just like in my younger days, atheists see that so much of those religious beliefs simply do not add up. I think so many discount religion and God because of this fact. Once again, it's easier to sweep it all away than work at Discovery.

Life is about Living. Perhaps that is why so many theists and atheists do not really want to find God. This is all good because life isn't about finding God.

This world is truly a multilevel classroom. There is much going on and it has nothing to do with God.

This world is not a mess. It is a Masterpiece. Perhaps if one chooses to see the good in others rather than what they deem as bad, the world would change before your eyes. It has never been a we against they. It is an US.

Join me when I say that Blame is one of the petty things mankind holds so dear. Forget Blame. Let's just work at helping everyone learn, grow and get better.

As I see it, Be who you must! That is part of the Plan! Listen to the advice of others, but walk your own Path! Life's lessons are best learned that way. Finally, as we are all the same, spread that Unconditional Love around. After all, it is what everyone wants to come to them.

AS I said before, that's my view and it seems really clear to me. How about you?

Bird123 said:

Hmmm??? Why is BLAME so important? Atheists choose their path just as theists. Both are acting out of beliefs just as you are.

Are you trying to say one of the choices is bad? In reality, everyone learns through their free choices. Everyone is on the path to God regardless of these choices. There are an infinite number of paths one can choose and by simply making a free choice, one is making the right choice.

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No, I am not saying that one of the choices is bad. The context of the OP was that I understand why atheists are atheists, if belief in a religion is necessary for believing in God, because anyone would be confused by all the different religions out there... How would anyone who does not already have a religion know which religion to even investigate, let alone choose?

Bird123 said:

The opposite views of atheists and theists are very important. Each shows their opposites a view that should not be ignored.

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That is true, as we can learn from each other.

Bird123 said:

Just like in my younger days, atheists see that so much of those religious beliefs simply do not add up. I think so many discount religion and God because of this fact. Once again, it's easier to sweep it all away than work at Discovery.

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That is true, many religious beliefs do not add up, so atheists sweep all of them under the carpet.

Bird123 said:

Life is about Living. Perhaps that is why so many theists and atheists do not really want to find God. This is all good because life isn't about finding God.

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Nobody can ever find God. All we can do is know something about God and what God wants for us.

Bird123 said:

This world is truly a multilevel classroom. There is much going on and it has nothing to do with God.

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No, because God is not doing anything in this world. God made this world so we would do something in it.

Bird123 said:

Join me when I say that Blame is one of the petty things mankind holds so dear. Forget Blame. Let's just work at helping everyone learn, grow and get better.

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I do not blame anyone for anything. Sometimes I blame God because He made the world as it is and it is a storehouse of suffering for some people, but I cannot see the end in the beginning so I try to accept that there are mysteries that will not be revealed until I go to the next life.

Bird123 said:

As I see it, Be who you must! That is part of the Plan! Listen to the advice of others, but walk your own Path! Life's lessons are best learned that way. Finally, as we are all the same, spread that Unconditional Love around. After all, it is what everyone wants to come to them.

AS I said before, that's my view and it seems really clear to me. How about you?

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I agree, we should be who we are, not who other people think we should be or what they want us to be.

Trailblazer said:

Your answer just explained the reason why God uses Messengers to communicate instead of communicating directly to humans.

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No, it didn't. And please stop proselytizing.

Yet you can give me no logical reason why it is implausible to the point of being ridiculous.

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None that you'll be satisfied with, certainly.

You just think it is implausible to the point of being ridiculous. I think God not existing is implausible to the point of being ridiculous, so does that make it implausible to the point of being ridiculous?

I hope you understand the point I am getting at.

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I have no doubt that you're so immersed in your religion that you sincerely believe this to be the case.

The fact that God is not a social being and the fact that we have little in common with God so we cannot relate to God does not explain why it would be either implausible or ridiculous for God to communicate through a Messenger. In fact it explains why it is logical for God to use Messengers to communicate.

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No, it really doesn't.

Non-social beings don't try to communicate... whether through intermediaries or otherwise.

Octopuses and slime moulds don't recruit people to be "messengers." If God were to exist, he would have less pressure to be social than either of these.

Wanting to communicate a message to others - whether directly or indirectly - is an expression of socialization.

9-10ths_Penguin said:

Non-social beings don't try to communicate... whether through intermediaries or otherwise.

Octopuses and slime moulds don't recruit people to be "messengers." If God were to exist, he would have less pressure to be social than either of these.

Wanting to communicate a message to others - whether directly or indirectly - is an expression of socialization.

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I respectfully disagree that communicating a message to humans shows a desire to socialize with humans.

Of course you would have to understand why God communicates to humans in order to know why I say that and mum's the word because I am done talking about Messengers with you. When someone has made up their mind they have made up their mind and I have no interest in trying to change anyone's mind.

Trailblazer said:

I respectfully disagree that communicating a message to humans shows a desire to socialize with humans.

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As I said earlier:

Suggestion: instead of arguing that you know what I was trying to say better than I do, put that energy into trying to figure out what I mean... even if I used a different word than you would have chosen to describe something.

Of course you would have to understand why God communicates to humans in order to know why I say that and mum's the word because I am done talking about Messengers with you.

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If that's true, it would be lovely. I'll believe it when I see it, though.

When someone has made up their mind they have made up their mind and I have no interest in trying to change anyone's mind.

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If you say so.

Trailblazer said:

When someone has made up their mind they have made up their mind and I have no interest in trying to change anyone's mind.

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Kind of how you've made up your mind that your truth must be realistic.

In the end, the only reality worth acknowledging is that which can be objectively, empirically understood. All else is simply which provides personal comfort and in no way contributes to what we understand as realistic.

9-10ths_Penguin said:

I'll believe it when I see it, though.

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You can see it now.

Phaedrus said:

Kind of how you've made up your mind that your truth must be realistic.

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Yes, after 49 years I guess it is a good idea to make up my mind.

Phaedrus said:

In the end, the only reality worth acknowledging is that which can be objectively, empirically understood.

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I acknowledge what I believe exists.
God cannot be objectively or empirically understood, but logically speaking, that does not mean God does not exist.
Objective proof does not MAKE God exist. It is just what atheists want and what they will never get.

Phaedrus said:

All else is simply which provides personal comfort and in no way contributes to what we understand as realistic.

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God provides no personal comfort for me, only angst. But I still cannot deny God exists because I consider that the reality.

Trailblazer said:

No, I am not saying that one of the choices is bad. The context of the OP was that I understand why atheists are atheists, if belief in a religion is necessary for believing in God, because anyone would be confused by all the different religions out there... How would anyone who does not already have a religion know which religion to even investigate, let alone choose?

That is true, as we can learn from each other.

That is true, many religious beliefs do not add up, so atheists sweep all of them under the carpet.

Nobody can ever find God. All we can do is know something about God and what God wants for us.

No, because God is not doing anything in this world. God made this world so we would do something in it.

I do not blame anyone for anything. Sometimes I blame God because He made the world as it is and it is a storehouse of suffering for some people, but I cannot see the end in the beginning so I try to accept that there are mysteries that will not be revealed until I go to the next life.

I agree, we should be who we are, not who other people think we should be or what they want us to be.

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Your quote:How would anyone who does not already have a religion know which religion to even investigate, let alone choose?
My Answer: If one is truly searching for God, religion is not where one will Discover the answers. On the other hand, people choose religion for a multitude of reasons. Trial and error is the best way to discover which religion feels good to you.

Personally, I am one who always seeks the Real Truth. That is why I do not belong, so to speak, to any religion. On the other hand, religion does carry bits of Truth within it, however it is more about mankind than any other thing.

Your Quote:Nobody can ever find God. All we can do is know something about God and what God wants for us.
My Answer: This simply is not true! If you blindly accept the beliefs of others, you will stray from the Real Truth. Many believe they can not find God because either they do not really want to find God or that they have been taught to fear God. AS I see it, God is not who you think God is. If you base your knowledge of God on beliefs, it's no wonder you wander from what actually is. Finally, remember that the lessons one chooses for oneself return regardless of beliefs or blind beliefs. As I see it, God deals in reality. Lessons will bring clarity.

Your quote:Sometimes I blame God because He made the world as it is and it is a storehouse of suffering for some people, but I cannot see the end in the beginning so I try to accept that there are mysteries that will not be revealed until I go to the next life.
My Answer: All the secrets of the universe stare us all in the face. God hides nothing. Everyone is capable of Discovery. One must widen that view for much more lives beyond the mere surface. What are you missing?


That's how I see things. It's very clear to me.