Muffled
Jesus in me
I believe you will not find those words. It is a derived concept. The statements are ambiguous and are both true and not true.
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'Jesus is God', Scripturally, [variable and non'variable verses(in meaning
- Thread starter Desert Snake
- Start date
I believe you will not find those words. It is a derived concept. The statements are ambiguous and are both true and not true.
Muffled
Jesus in me
I believe we shouldn't take you seriously .You are not God.
firedragon
Veteran Member
So what did they do?
They had a party or a summer break?
Well its like this. Summer in Nicea is somewhere in July and August but the council of Nicea was May to June just about a month long so you cant really call that time summer. So it definitely cannot be called a summer break. But a normal party im not too sure. There are no records anyway of anything like that so Im not too sure.
The council of Nicea didnt invent anything. The emperor wanted to establish the most acceptable Christology and be done with it. But all the doctrines discussed already existed. Nothing was invented.
Cheers.
So IOW, you couldn’t find those phases?
Certainly there can, as there was in ancient Babylon...Belshazzar and his father; or as in Ancient Rome, a triumvirate.
Who made Jesus, Lord? God, his Father. Philippians 2:9-11.
“The same woman”? Now you’re spinning. Ancient Israel and the Christian Congregation are not the same.
The rest is a Gish.
Certainly there can, as there was in ancient Babylon...Belshazzar and his father; or as in Ancient Rome, a triumvirate.
Who made Jesus, Lord? God, his Father. Philippians 2:9-11.
Please! Why did you add (origin) and (goal)? That’s not in Scripture, either.
“The same woman”? Now you’re spinning. Ancient Israel and the Christian Congregation are not the same.
The rest is a Gish.
There can be several "Lords", but only one "Lord of Lords". This is a title that only one can claim. Just as there can be only one "God of Gods" and only one "King of Kings".
The title "First" stands for the first Greek letter "Alpha", which means to be the origin of everything.
The titel "Last" stands for the last Greek letter "Omega", which means to be the goal.
God is the origin (Alpha/First) of all and the goal (Omega/Last) of all, he is the beginning and the end (Revelation 21:6), from him we have come and to him we shall return and Jesus himself claims this title, for he is God. (Revelation 1:17)(Revelation 22:13)
"Old Israel"? God never rejected his people.
Look what Paul writes:
(KJV)
Romans 11:1-5
I say then, Hath God cast away his people? God forbid. For I also am an Israelite, of the seed of Abraham, of the tribe of Benjamin. 2 God hath not cast away his people which he foreknew.
And look what the Revelation says:
(KJV)
Revelation 7:4
And I heard the number of them which were sealed: and there were sealed an hundred and forty and four thousand of all the tribes of the children of Israel.
(Revelation 14:1-5)
And I looked, and, lo, a Lamb stood on the mount Sion, and with him an hundred forty and four thousand, having his Father's name written in their foreheads.2 And I heard a voice from heaven, as the voice of many waters, and as the voice of a great thunder: and I heard the voice of harpers harping with their harps:3 And they sung as it were a new song before the throne, and before the four beasts, and the elders: and no man could learn that song but the hundred and forty and four thousand, which were redeemed from the earth.4 These are they which were not defiled with women; for they are virgins. These are they which follow the Lamb whithersoever he goeth. These were redeemed from among men, being the firstfruits unto God and to the Lamb.5 And in their mouth was found no guile: for they are without fault before the throne of God.
_____
Please don't ignore that. I'm interested in what you say.
God is the only Saviour(Isaiah 43:11)=Jesus is the Saviour(Luke 2:11)
God is the only rock (Isaiah 44:8; Psalm 18:31)=Jesus is the rock(1 Corinthians 10:4)
God will be the pierced(Zechariah 12:10)=Jesus is the pierced(crucifixion)
For God the way is prepared (Isaiah 40:3)=For Jesus the way is prepared (Mark 1:3 ; Matthew 3:3)
Jesus and YHUH are God (Psalm 45:7-8) =Jesus and YHUH are God (Hebrews 1:8-9)
God created the world (Genesis 1:1)=All things were created by Jesus, through Jesus and for Jesus(Romans 11:36) (Colossians 1:16-17)
Jesus is God and the father of eternity (Isaiah 9:6)
Jesus is omnipotent (Revelation 1:8) (Matthew 28:18)
Jesus is the true God (Romans 9:5) (1 John 5:20)
Thomas calls Jesus God (John 20:28)
Jesus is the image of the invisible God (Colossians 1:15)
God became flesh (human) and Jesus is this flesh (John 1:1+14) (1 Timothy 3:16)
Jesus accepts prayers (John 14:13-14)
Jesus and the father are one (John 10:30)
Who has seen Jesus, has seen God (John 14:9)
Whoever believes in Jesus believes in God (John 12:44)
74x12
Well-Known Member
... You're splitting hairs. They deny that Jesus is God. That's all I meant.
74x12
Well-Known Member
That's what you think.
MJFlores
Well-Known Member
Maybe I will just have to lay down a very understandable version.
Show them below and you and the rest of the gang draw your conclusion.
How about that?
--------------------------------------------
John 8:40-47 New Life Version (NLV)
I am a Man Who has told you the truth as I heard it from God. Now you are trying to kill Me. Abraham never did anything like that. You are doing the works of your father.” They said to Him, “We were born of parents who were faithful in marriage. We have one Father. He is God.”
Jesus said to them, “If God were your father, you would love Me. I came from God. I did not come on My own, but God sent Me. Why do you not understand what I say? It is because you do not want to hear My teaching. The devil is your father. You are from him. You want to do the sinful things your father, the devil, wants you to do. He has been a killer from the beginning. The devil has nothing to do with the truth. There is no truth in him. It is expected of the devil to lie, for he is a liar and the father of lies. I tell you the truth and that is why you do not put your trust in Me. Which one of you can say I am guilty of sin? If I tell you the truth, why do you not believe Me? Whoever is born of God listens to God’s Word. You do not hear His Word because you are not born of God.”
whirlingmerc
Well-Known Member
There are many reasons to claim Jesus is God.
The angel would not rebuke Satan in Jude but Jesus rebuked Satan would be one.
firedragon
Veteran Member
Thats what some people think. But Arius Taught and Thought that Jesus was God, he was the Son of God, the word, but he was subordinate to God the father, and that he was created at some point of time in history, but all creation was created through Jesus, and that the religion rests in scripture, the baptism in the name of the father, the son, and the holy ghost. That was what Alexander condemned. According to Arius, Jesus, the Logos, did not exist with God from the Beginning, Jesus was created as the Son of God before creation, but he himself was a creation or a production of the father (Gegenomenon), so he is not God the father, and that was Arianism.
The opposition was that all three of the trinity existed from the beginning.
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MJFlores
Well-Known Member
The angel would not rebuke Satan in Jude but Jesus rebuked Satan would be one - FLIMSY, NO BONE, AND A
FAILURE.
MJFlores
Well-Known Member
The Council of Nicaea, the first ecumenical debate held by the early Christian church, concludes with the establishment of the doctrine of the Holy Trinity. Convened by Roman Emperor Constantine I in May, the council also deemed the Arian belief of Christ as inferior to God as heretical, thus resolving an early church crisis.
The controversy began when Arius, an Alexandrian priest, questioned the full divinity of Christ because, unlike God, Christ was born and had a beginning. What began as an academic theological debate spread to Christian congregations throughout the empire, threatening a schism in the early Christian church. Roman Emperor Constantine I, who converted to Christianity in 312, called bishops from all over his empire to resolve the crisis and urged the adoption of a new creed that would resolve the ambiguities between Christ and God.
Meeting at Nicaea in present-day Turkey, the council established the equality of the Father, the Son, and the Holy Spirit in the Holy Trinity and asserted that only the Son became incarnate as Jesus Christ. The Arian leaders were subsequently banished from their churches for heresy. The Emperor Constantine presided over the opening of the council and contributed to the discussion.
https://www.history.com/this-day-in-history/council-of-nicaea-concludes
Definition of establish
transitive verb
1 : to institute (something, such as a law) permanently by enactment or agreement
2 obsolete : settle sense 7
3a : to make firm or stable
b : to introduce and cause to grow and multiply establish grass on pasturelands
4a : to bring into existence : found established a republic
b : bring about, effect established friendly relations
5a : to put on a firm basis : set up establish his son in business
b : to put into a favorable position
c : to gain full recognition or acceptance of the role established her as a star
6 : to make (a church) a national or state institution
Definition of ESTABLISH
firedragon
Veteran Member
The Council of Nicaea, the first ecumenical debate held by the early Christian church, concludes with the establishment of the doctrine of the Holy Trinity. Convened by Roman Emperor Constantine I in May, the council also deemed the Arian belief of Christ as inferior to God as heretical, thus resolving an early church crisis.
The controversy began when Arius, an Alexandrian priest, questioned the full divinity of Christ because, unlike God, Christ was born and had a beginning. What began as an academic theological debate spread to Christian congregations throughout the empire, threatening a schism in the early Christian church. Roman Emperor Constantine I, who converted to Christianity in 312, called bishops from all over his empire to resolve the crisis and urged the adoption of a new creed that would resolve the ambiguities between Christ and God.
Meeting at Nicaea in present-day Turkey, the council established the equality of the Father, the Son, and the Holy Spirit in the Holy Trinity and asserted that only the Son became incarnate as Jesus Christ. The Arian leaders were subsequently banished from their churches for heresy. The Emperor Constantine presided over the opening of the council and contributed to the discussion.
https://www.history.com/this-day-in-history/council-of-nicaea-concludes
Definition of establish
transitive verb
1 : to institute (something, such as a law) permanently by enactment or agreement
2 obsolete : settle sense 7
3a : to make firm or stable
b : to introduce and cause to grow and multiply establish grass on pasturelands
4a : to bring into existence : found established a republic
b : bring about, effect established friendly relations
5a : to put on a firm basis : set up establish his son in business
b : to put into a favorable position
c : to gain full recognition or acceptance of the role established her as a star
6 : to make (a church) a national or state institution
Definition of ESTABLISH
Your cut and paste is supplementary to what I just told you brother. There is no need to be so aversive of what one person says as if your default position is to just oppose.
Read up on the theology of Arius. Maybe read a book by Rowan Williams. Or even someone like Hanson. You will understand.
Anyway, thats the end of it. Cheers.
MJFlores
Well-Known Member
I 'm not familiar with Arius.
Maybe some Middle Eastern guy?
I'm Asian, just reading the Bible.
English or Tagalog will do
Catholic or Protestant translated will do
If the Bible says Jesus is a man and not God
I don't see Aruis there but the truth
1 Timothy 2:5 clearly says that the mediator between God and men is
THE MAN Christ Jesus.
No Arius there since that was written by Apostle Paul
Why didn't Apostle Paul wrote THE GOD Christ Jesus?
Because Christ Jesus is not God, but a MAN
And I conform my belief and my faith with that taught by the apostles of Christ
if it is written in the Bible, I do not go beyond it.
If it is established by some ancient defunct now dead bishops in the present day Muslim Turkey
I believe people should reject it.
If it is hand over by fanatics, unthinking religious, pious individuals who do not have a biblical basis
I believe people should reject it.
firedragon
Veteran Member
Well, one cant talk about the council of Nicea without talking about Arius. I didnt debate the Bible, I was only correcting your view about the council of Nicea. Just history, thats it.
MJFlores
Well-Known Member
That is right Arius was there.
But still I am not familiar with the character.
As in, should I remember the guy every now and then.
What I am reminded is a lot of people do regard Jesus Christ as God
The Catholics and Protestants in a Trinity setting, the Pentecostal in a Oneness/Modalism
The Mormons in a Three [3] God format.
Arius has not influence what I believe because what I believe are written plainly in the Bible.
Not from Arius podcast or writings.
And this is what the Catholic bible says:
John 14:23-28 Good News Translation (GNT)
Jesus answered him, “Those who love me will obey my teaching. My Father will love them, and my Father and I will come to them and live with them. Those who do not love me do not obey my teaching. And the teaching you have heard is not mine, but comes from the Father, who sent me.
“I have told you this while I am still with you. The Helper, the Holy Spirit, whom the Father will send in my name, will teach you everything and make you remember all that I have told you.
“Peace is what I leave with you; it is my own peace that I give you. I do not give it as the world does. Do not be worried and upset; do not be afraid. You heard me say to you, ‘I am leaving, but I will come back to you.’ If you loved me, you would be glad that I am going to the Father; for he is greater than I.
------------------------------
Arius [a participant in the Council of Nicaea 325 AD] did not translate nor wrote the bible. The Bible has existed even before he was born. He lived in a separate time and did not meet apostle John or the Lord Jesus Christ. Yet his beliefs seem to conform with the teachings of the Bible.
The inventions of the Council of Nicaea 325 AD runs contrary with the Bible [even with the Catholic translated ones]
Catechism of the Catholic Church - The Father
232 Christians are baptized "in the name of the Father and of the Son and of the ... council at Nicaea (325) that the Son is "consubstantial" with the Father, that is, ... third person of the Trinity, is God, one and equal with the Father and the Son, .... up or inferior degree that casts down. . . the infinite co-naturality of three infinites.
comparing what is in the Bible [as shown above]
.....I am going to the Father; for he is greater than I.
firedragon
Veteran Member
That is right Arius was there.
But still I am not familiar with the character.
As in, should I remember the guy every now and then.
What I am reminded is a lot of people do regard Jesus Christ as God
The Catholics and Protestants in a Trinity setting, the Pentecostal in a Oneness/Modalism
The Mormons in a Three [3] God format.
Arius has not influence what I believe because what I believe are written plainly in the Bible.
Not from Arius podcast or writings.
And this is what the Catholic bible says:
John 14:23-28 Good News Translation (GNT)
Jesus answered him, “Those who love me will obey my teaching. My Father will love them, and my Father and I will come to them and live with them. Those who do not love me do not obey my teaching. And the teaching you have heard is not mine, but comes from the Father, who sent me.
“I have told you this while I am still with you. The Helper, the Holy Spirit, whom the Father will send in my name, will teach you everything and make you remember all that I have told you.
“Peace is what I leave with you; it is my own peace that I give you. I do not give it as the world does. Do not be worried and upset; do not be afraid. You heard me say to you, ‘I am leaving, but I will come back to you.’ If you loved me, you would be glad that I am going to the Father; for he is greater than I.
------------------------------
Arius [a participant in the Council of Nicaea 325 AD] did not translate nor wrote the bible. The Bible has existed even before he was born. He lived in a separate time and did not meet apostle John or the Lord Jesus Christ. Yet his beliefs seem to conform with the teachings of the Bible.
The inventions of the Council of Nicaea 325 AD runs contrary with the Bible [even with the Catholic translated ones]
Catechism of the Catholic Church - The Father
232 Christians are baptized "in the name of the Father and of the Son and of the ... council at Nicaea (325) that the Son is "consubstantial" with the Father, that is, ... third person of the Trinity, is God, one and equal with the Father and the Son, .... up or inferior degree that casts down. . . the infinite co-naturality of three infinites.
comparing what is in the Bible [as shown above]
.....I am going to the Father; for he is greater than I.
Cheers.
74x12
Well-Known Member
So Jesus is "a god" rather than "the God". Basically really pretty similar to what modern Jehovah's witnesses say. In this kind of a debate you have to simplify a bit. We all should already know they believe Jesus is some kind of divinity; but not the same Divine nature as the Father.
So that brings us full circle again. Either you have two Gods (a greater and a lesser) or one God. I believe in only one God the Father. Jesus the Son is God the Father manifest. The vast majority of their arguments against this can be explained by the duality of Christ's nature. Fully God and fully man.
LightofTruth
Well-Known Member
Jesus has a God. He is not the God who is his God. He simply represents the God who is his God. That makes one God and one Lord. Jesus' God has highly exalted Jesus to a position as God(Lord) above all angels and men.
firedragon
Veteran Member
Yep. You didnt understand what Arianism was. I tried to make you understand. I didnt say I agree with them or any of such thing. You have misunderstood the council of Nicea, you have misunderstood history. I was only trying to give you the correct information and now you are giving some argument about an idea of a character in this history.
I think youre just looking for an argument with someone so please find someone or a topic you like to debate about and please do it. Go ahead.
Peace.