• Welcome to Religious Forums, a friendly forum to discuss all religions in a friendly surrounding.

    Your voice is missing! You will need to register to get access to the following site features:
    • Reply to discussions and create your own threads.
    • Our modern chat room. No add-ons or extensions required, just login and start chatting!
    • Access to private conversations with other members.

    We hope to see you as a part of our community soon!

Excuses, excuses

L

LightofTruth

Well-Known Member
A Vestigial Mote said:
And this is a "demand" for love how? It explicitly states "I TAKE THEE" and then "TO HAVE AND TO HOLD, TO LOVE AND TO CHERISH."

It is ALL about how much you want to love the other person... NOT demanding the other person for love. Please show me where one person's words demand that the other love them. Please show me.

And do you know WHY it doesn't mention anything like that? Do you know WHY our proclamations of love do not include things like "You must love me?" Because saying that to someone is disgusting. It is vile, and repulsive. You do not have any place at all demanding that someone else love you. If you ever have, you should have your head examined.
Click to expand...
It seems you fail to recognize that marriage is a type of contract. It's an agreement between to people that they will love each other.Therefore the agreement is that "I will love you" and "you will love me"
 
Bob the Unbeliever

Bob the Unbeliever

Well-Known Member
sojourner said:
Not entirely, no. But remember: the Bible is not the whole of the religion. Irenaeus said in the second century that the faith stands upon the scriptures, the apostles’ teaching, and the teachings of their successors.
Click to expand...

Except that faith does NOT do that, in your case, or in the case of 2/3's of the planet...

Excuses, excuses: But you do admit you are MORE MORAL than what the bible teaches.

PROGRESS!
 
Bob the Unbeliever

Bob the Unbeliever

Well-Known Member
sojourner said:
That’s a pessimistic view — and one that doesn’t hold up, I’m afraid.
Click to expand...

Actually? It holds up perfectly well. Look at Modern America: The only group of christians in the USA, that shows modest growth? Are Evangelicals.

The perfect target audience for Control Measures. As a group? These people continue to support a character who could credibly be described as the proverbial Antichrist... serial adulterer, serial business-cheat, never pays his bills, 100% dishonest to the point that even Lawyers are taking note, and so on.

But Evangelicals flock to this demagogue like he's some sort of weird backwards "savior"...!

What more proof does anyone need, that Christianity is best used to Control the Masses? A literal Opposite-Jesus is now the Leader of the largest growing group of Christians in North America....!
 
L

LightofTruth

Well-Known Member
A Vestigial Mote said:
How can you? All you can do is love them and hope that it is enough to evoke the same in them. You EARN love. Just as you earn respect.

For example, who would ever marry someone, and then just start doing whatever they wanted whenever they wanted to, and then when their partner complains, tell them they just need to "suck it up" because they are stuck being REQUIRED to love them? A fool would do this, and a fool would also be surprised when their partner fell "out of love" with them due to their abhorrent behavior.

Remember - we're not talking about some "innocuous hope" that the other person will continue to love you here - we're talking about DEMANDING - you know, like God does.
Click to expand...
There is nothing wrong with demanding love. It would be foolish to marry someone unless you demanded they love you. That's part of the agreement in marriage.
Love is the greatest thing there is, so demanding someone to love you is only expecting the greatest thing from them.
 
Bob the Unbeliever

Bob the Unbeliever

Well-Known Member
LightofTruth said:
[


Ever heard of wedding vows?

"I, ___, take thee, ___, to be my wedded husband/wife, to have and to hold, from this day forward, for better, for worse, for richer, for poorer, in sickness and in health, to love and to cherish, till death do us part,
Click to expand...

Is it "marriage" if one of the couple is taken by force? Or at the point of a shotgun?

For that is exactly at christianity's base: "Love" Jesus or be Tortured Forever.

Extortion---- only infinitely worse. The meanest Mafia Boss could only ever kill someone.

But the christian god? Goes infinitely worse, according to the legend..
 
Bob the Unbeliever

Bob the Unbeliever

Well-Known Member
LightofTruth said:
There is nothing wrong with demanding love. It would be foolish to marry someone unless you demanded they love you. That's part of the agreement in marriage.
Love is the greatest thing there is, so demanding someone to love you is only expecting the greatest thing from them.
Click to expand...

Do you know how sick that sounds?

This is exactly like a very abusive spouse, who routinely beats up their "loved one", and then turns around and demands they receive "love" in return?

Serial Abuser.
 
L

LightofTruth

Well-Known Member
Bob the Unbeliever said:
Is it "marriage" if one of the couple is taken by force? Or at the point of a shotgun?

For that is exactly at christianity's base: "Love" Jesus or be Tortured Forever.

Extortion---- only infinitely worse. The meanest Mafia Boss could only ever kill someone.

But the christian god? Goes infinitely worse, according to the legend..
Click to expand...
You won't find the words "eternal torment" in Scripture. That's the words of men.
What you will find is that if you want the life(eternal life) that God offers you will love him.
 
L

LightofTruth

Well-Known Member
Bob the Unbeliever said:
Do you know how sick that sounds?

This is exactly like a very abusive spouse, who routinely beats up their "loved one", and then turns around and demands they receive "love" in return?

Serial Abuser.
Click to expand...
Is this going over your head?
if a person promises to love you then that's what you would expect from them.
God did NOT demand love, He simply said that if they wanted to enter covenant with Him, it would be required of them to love Him.
After they agreed, it would not be wrong to demand what they had agreed to.
 
Audie

Audie

Veteran Member
LightofTruth said:
There is nothing wrong with demanding love. It would be foolish to marry someone unless you demanded they love you. That's part of the agreement in marriage.
Love is the greatest thing there is, so demanding someone to love you is only expecting the greatest thing from them.
Click to expand...

"Love" that is coerced is not love.
I hope anyone potentially in range of your love will
run for her life.
 
Audie

Audie

Veteran Member
LightofTruth said:
You won't find the words "eternal torment" in Scripture. That's the words of men.
What you will find is that if you want the life(eternal life) that God offers you will love him.
Click to expand...


The entire bible is the words of men.

About 99 percent of what "christians" derive from the
bible is not actually there.
 
TagliatelliMonster

TagliatelliMonster

Veteran Member
sojourner said:
Did you read the post to which you responded? Throwing misinformation around indiscriminately only fuels the opposition’s points. I get the disenchantment, but it’s not serving your needs.
Click to expand...

There was no misinformation in my post. All those things are written black on white in the bible. And the vast majority of them are actually quite famous as well.

I find it absolutely baffling that someone, especially someone that is supposed to know the book well, can honestly deny those things to be in that book.

Sorry, but I'm really not interested in a "debate" about how what the bible literally says isn't "really" what it says but how it actually means something completely different or what-have-you.

Sorry, but no.

Your book says what it says.
And excuse me, but there is NO context in which it is EVER ok or moral to engage in the slaughter of infants and babies.

I can honestly tell you that you will not succeed in convincing me that such a context exists and I'm not even interested in your arguments.

This might be one of the very rare times where you'll see me argue somewhat dogmatically.


It is what it is. The slaughter of infants and babies is repulsive.

And if you are again going to deny that such slaughter is in the bible and carried out by "the good guys", I'm just going to laugh in your face and shake my head while saying "amalekites".
 
Audie

Audie

Veteran Member
LightofTruth said:
Is this going over your head?
if a person promises to love you then that's what you would expect from them.
God did NOT demand love, He simply said that if they wanted to enter covenant with Him, it would be required of them to love Him.
After they agreed, it would not be wrong to demand what they had agreed to.
Click to expand...

Could you please parse for us the exact
difference between "command" and, "demand"?

Be sure to include in the analysis the original
language as, you know, dictated by "god". :D
 
TagliatelliMonster

TagliatelliMonster

Veteran Member
LightofTruth said:
If you read the Scripture you might notice that it was a covenant God made with the Jewish people. They agreed to the terms of that covenant when they said, "all that the LORD had said we will do and be obedient". The Jews were then bound to the covenant by accepting its terms..
Click to expand...

That still doesn't solve the clear contradiction between a vow on the one hand (the freewill expression of an individual that says "i love you") and the demand on the other ("you MUST love me").

Demanding to be loved, makes zero sense and actually shows that the author doesn't even understand what love is.
 
TagliatelliMonster

TagliatelliMonster

Veteran Member
LightofTruth said:
If I were to marry someone I would not exactly say that "YOU MUST LOVE ME". But I would expect the person to agree to love me or else I'd be a fool to marry the person if they could not say "I will love you"
Click to expand...


"to agree to love me".

Who talks like that?

Love isn't an agreement. It's an emotion. An emotion that the individual doesn't have real control over.
 
Audie

Audie

Veteran Member
TagliatelliMonster said:
There was no misinformation in my post. All those things are written black on white in the bible. And the vast majority of them are actually quite famous as well.

I find it absolutely baffling that someone, especially someone that is supposed to know the book well, can honestly deny those things to be in that book.

Sorry, but I'm really not interested in a "debate" about how what the bible literally says isn't "really" what it says but how it actually means something completely different or what-have-you.

Sorry, but no.

Your book says what it says.
And excuse me, but there is NO context in which it is EVER ok or moral to engage in the slaughter of infants and babies.

I can honestly tell you that you will not succeed in convincing me that such a context exists and I'm not even interested in your arguments.

This might be one of the very rare times where you'll see me argue somewhat dogmatically.


It is what it is. The slaughter of infants and babies is repulsive.

And if you are again going to deny that such slaughter is in the bible and carried out by "the good guys", I'm just going to laugh in your face and shake my head while saying "amalekites".
Click to expand...

I wonder what "misinformation" you were supposed
to have written?

More to the point of this though is the absolutely
repulsive and sickening way that these nominal
"christians" blithely justify and make holy the
most hideous acts one can think of.

The difference between them and the boys of
911 will not count for much, if there is an afterlife
where justice is finally served.
 
You must log in or register to reply here.
Top